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xBeastx
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Rgist85 wrote:
TheGandalf wrote:
HONDA AFVM wrote:
This news is very needed and good. As we knew and from the pictures, we saw all the models........We know what the car looks like for the most part. The Touring is going to be a big hit to the Maxima, that is about I can say right now.........Honda is very SEALED about leaks on this car, but lets say none of you will be disappointed with the "additional luxury car features".......
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I am indeed happy :)
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If its gonna be a hit to the Maxima its gonna need
a) push button start
b) a panoramic roof
c) heated and cooled front seats
d) a power tilt and telescoping steering wheel
e) a heated steering wheel
f) HIDs
g) LED taillights
h) power folding outside mirrors
but then again with all those features it could just as easily be a competitor to the Kia Optima SX ;)
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Why doesn't Honda America give us any panoramic sunroofs? The only car with it here is the ZDX, while in Europe and many other places there are glass roofs/panoramic sunroofs available for the Fit/Jazz, CR-V, Civic, and several others.
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CivicB18
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A77 wrote:
When all is said and done about features the one big question mark is how the CVT will be. If it is anything like most others on the market - the nicety of all the features could be far outweighed by the nastiness of the driving experience. The potential artificiality of that and the equally unknown implementation of EPS (which they havent got right in most recent applications as far as the enthusiast is concerned) is surely of greater worry. Failing to score a hit on both these fronts could well lose Honda's coveted "ten best" from Car and Driver but more importantly take away the two strongest Accord benefits. The 7 gen had one of the nicest set ups ever in the sector (especially the 4 cyl), and the 8 gen was/is nice too with its VGR system. Honda hasn't been able to come up with anything as nice in the EPS TSX, so here's hoping.
Going back to CVT, this, coupled with the near disappearance of the MT - in Canada especially, is the biggest question mark. Accords have always had brilliant manuals and autos. lets hope it stays this way. i am not holding out for the Sport being available in Canada at all, but its likely the only one I would consider replacing my TSX 6 speed with in 18 months. That's also assuming the ED engine is better all round - not just in the economy stakes.
PS - I am thinking very little hp change in the V6. Surely we would have seen it in the RDX otherwise. They say it'll be more powerful. But I doubt more than say 275hp. We shouldnt care anyways - who needs this. More important that it actually feels like that number of ponies - cos the current V6 doesnt. The Camry feels way quicker even though it has no more hp on paper.
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Try doing some research as Jeff made more than a few comments on his experience in Japan about the ED/CVT combo and came away impressed. He said the ED engines were surprisingly torquey and the CVT didnt take away from the driving experience. Honda stated that the all new CVT would be sporty feeling and ADD to the driving experience overall as it's not tuned like a traditional rubber band feeling CVT.
As for the V6, even though the Toyota V6 and Honda V6 are pretty much identical on paper, the Camry is a lighter car and benefited from a 6AT. The Accords V6 as we all know was connected to a 5AT and had the dreaded VCM system which eliminated the performance mechanicals of the VTEC system. Unfortunately that along with some torque management programming gave the Honda V6 a large hole in its torque curve which caused higher acceleration times.
The VCM system in the RDX is an improved setup it seems and along with the new 6AT makes for strong low and midrange torque while retaining the top end. So even though the new Accord may gain a few HP on paper over the current V6, the "new" V6 should develop more power under the curve and that torque hole should pretty much vanish.
From what I've read about the V6's acceleration in the RDX it seems as if Honda got it right this time as the RDX is pretty quick. Edmunds got 14.7 @ 94 MPH out of the new RDX which is pretty much in line with the current V6 Accord despite being a few hundred pounds heavier with only slight HP advantages on paper. The new Accord should be lighter vs the current and with the RDX's more potent (and more efficient) V6/6AT should put its acceleration numbers up there with the Camry V6 and Sonata/Optima turbo as they trap in the 98-99 mph range.
~Patrick
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98EX4cyl
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xAbSoLuTexZeRo wrote:
Rgist85 wrote:
TheGandalf wrote:
HONDA AFVM wrote:
This news is very needed and good. As we knew and from the pictures, we saw all the models........We know what the car looks like for the most part. The Touring is going to be a big hit to the Maxima, that is about I can say right now.........Honda is very SEALED about leaks on this car, but lets say none of you will be disappointed with the "additional luxury car features".......
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I am indeed happy :)
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If its gonna be a hit to the Maxima its gonna need
a) push button start
b) a panoramic roof
c) heated and cooled front seats
d) a power tilt and telescoping steering wheel
e) a heated steering wheel
f) HIDs
g) LED taillights
h) power folding outside mirrors
but then again with all those features it could just as easily be a competitor to the Kia Optima SX ;)
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Why doesn't Honda America give us any panoramic sunroofs? The only car with it here is the ZDX, while in Europe and many other places there are glass roofs/panoramic sunroofs available for the Fit/Jazz, CR-V, Civic, and several others.
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Probably due to recent focus on roof strength testing by IIHS. Honda/Acura did not meet the standards for some vehicles and had to add more high tensile steel. Perhaps with next wave of designs they will incorporate even more steel in the roof and pillars to accommodate larger glass roofs but trade off will be weight. I noticed the Escape titanium weighs about the same as a V6 RDX, more than 240lbs more than a CRV EX-L AWD.
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longhorn
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To answer HondaAFVM question,yeah I am happy that Honda has a sport trim. The only thing better would be an option to have a premium sound system in it, but beggars can't be choosey.
The 18s wheels on the Camry SE are optional, so 18s on the Accord will definately trump Toyota there. HondaAFVM, do you agree that the Sport Trim has the making of being 50% of sales like the SE is for the Camry?
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A77
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CivicB18 wrote:
A77 wrote:
When all is said and done about features the one big question mark is how the CVT will be. If it is anything like most others on the market - the nicety of all the features could be far outweighed by the nastiness of the driving experience. The potential artificiality of that and the equally unknown implementation of EPS (which they havent got right in most recent applications as far as the enthusiast is concerned) is surely of greater worry. Failing to score a hit on both these fronts could well lose Honda's coveted "ten best" from Car and Driver but more importantly take away the two strongest Accord benefits. The 7 gen had one of the nicest set ups ever in the sector (especially the 4 cyl), and the 8 gen was/is nice too with its VGR system. Honda hasn't been able to come up with anything as nice in the EPS TSX, so here's hoping.
Going back to CVT, this, coupled with the near disappearance of the MT - in Canada especially, is the biggest question mark. Accords have always had brilliant manuals and autos. lets hope it stays this way. i am not holding out for the Sport being available in Canada at all, but its likely the only one I would consider replacing my TSX 6 speed with in 18 months. That's also assuming the ED engine is better all round - not just in the economy stakes.
PS - I am thinking very little hp change in the V6. Surely we would have seen it in the RDX otherwise. They say it'll be more powerful. But I doubt more than say 275hp. We shouldnt care anyways - who needs this. More important that it actually feels like that number of ponies - cos the current V6 doesnt. The Camry feels way quicker even though it has no more hp on paper.
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Try doing some research as Jeff made more than a few comments on his experience in Japan about the ED/CVT combo and came away impressed. He said the ED engines were surprisingly torquey and the CVT didnt take away from the driving experience. Honda stated that the all new CVT would be sporty feeling and ADD to the driving experience overall as it's not tuned like a traditional rubber band feeling CVT.
As for the V6, even though the Toyota V6 and Honda V6 are pretty much identical on paper, the Camry is a lighter car and benefited from a 6AT. The Accords V6 as we all know was connected to a 5AT and had the dreaded VCM system which eliminated the performance mechanicals of the VTEC system. Unfortunately that along with some torque management programming gave the Honda V6 a large hole in its torque curve which caused higher acceleration times.
The VCM system in the RDX is an improved setup it seems and along with the new 6AT makes for strong low and midrange torque while retaining the top end. So even though the new Accord may gain a few HP on paper over the current V6, the "new" V6 should develop more power under the curve and that torque hole should pretty much vanish.
From what I've read about the V6's acceleration in the RDX it seems as if Honda got it right this time as the RDX is pretty quick. Edmunds got 14.7 @ 94 MPH out of the new RDX which is pretty much in line with the current V6 Accord despite being a few hundred pounds heavier with only slight HP advantages on paper. The new Accord should be lighter vs the current and with the RDX's more potent (and more efficient) V6/6AT should put its acceleration numbers up there with the Camry V6 and Sonata/Optima turbo as they trap in the 98-99 mph range.
~Patrick
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I remember Jeff's piece - which was encouraging. So let's hope. As for what Honda says - well they are going to say that. Just hope they are right.
Apart from the V6s lack of mid range torque - as I have said before I have dyno charts comparing the VCM and non-VCM engines. Honda have also told me that the dbw system is tuned to help with gas mileage, whereas the RDX is designed to be more responsive to a given accelerator input. The 6 speed must help too. Certainly the 8 gen feels slower than the 7 gen and has no real economy advantage - but it's heavier too so no surprise there - can't change the laws of physics cap'n. Proof will be in the pudding.
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SH-AWD10
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I think the above post, concerning the new car's driving dynamics, hits the nail on the head. We own a much-loved, but tiring (150K+) 7th Gen., 4 cylinder, 5MT. I am to this day routinely surprised at how well this commuter car handles, shifts, accelerates, brakes, etc. all while returning about 27 mpg in mostly suburban driving.
I have great hopes for the new DI 2.4 with the 6MT. I just hope the interior materials/design get a quality upgrade from the 8th Gen., but more importantly, that the car's driving dynamics equal or exceed my 03's.
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linty
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HONDA AFVM wrote:
This news is very needed and good. As we knew and from the pictures, we saw all the models........We know what the car looks like for the most part. The Touring is going to be a big hit to the Maxima, that is about I can say right now.........Honda is very SEALED about leaks on this car, but lets say none of you will be disappointed with the "additional luxury car features".......
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I agree that this is very good news but surprised that you say this model will be a bit hit to the Maxima.
Models like the Maxima, Lacrosse, CC, Etc are all very premium mainstream models that compete with the TL, TSX, etc. IMO Honda has never really made premium models like this and has left that to Acura.
If this Accord is everything you say it is, then Acura is really going to have to step it up big time. They recently stated they arent going after tier 1 anymore but they wont really have a choice if Honda is going to start offering premium models like this (which is awesome IMO).
If Acura doesnt step it up. then it soon wont make any sense to buy a vehicle like the TL, TSX, etc unless you want SH-AWD or are big on buying a badge.....and the same would probably apply to the Crosstour and the TSX wagon, if the Accord features move over to Crosstour which they probably will.
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HONDA AFVM
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longhorn wrote:
To answer HondaAFVM question,yeah I am happy that Honda has a sport trim. The only thing better would be an option to have a premium sound system in it, but beggars can't be choosey.
The 18s wheels on the Camry SE are optional, so 18s on the Accord will definately trump Toyota there. HondaAFVM, do you agree that the Sport Trim has the making of being 50% of sales like the SE is for the Camry?
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No.......Camry buyers were starving for a nice handling car with a "T" on the front.......Honda owners ALWAYS had that.........What this will do is bring people, younger people in that didn't consider an Accord before.......
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hondajack
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yea, if it had all that, then it would be a 40000 accord. No one cares about those option or is willing to pay for them. Honda is not really losing any market share to the overpriced maxima anyway
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MasterOfDaDomain
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A77 wrote:
No grounds for complaint yet except the head in the sand attitude to push button start. I'd as a sales person much rather see that that the blind spot and forward collision warning systems - which are both sops for people who can't or who just don't look where they are going or adjust and use their mirrors properly. Just more idiot proofing that takes more responsibility away. And I don't really think they are wow must have features for anybody. Whereas proximity sensors and push button start are on people's check lists. On the other hand I guess I should be commending Honda for offering a safety features instead of conveniences. I just can't help but ask where all this idiot-proofing leads to apart from inattentive driving. I guess the same thing has been said about airbags and seat belts.
I find it interesting that in the info we got from Honda last week it said that the Chassis is shorter for handling reasons while interior room stays the same. Nothing about overall car length. So either it has longer overhangs or it is shorter - in which case why not say so. The civic is essentially the same outside as before but has a shorter wheelbase....
Especially nice to see an end to the crappy electroflourescant centre display, so Navi is now just a software enhancement. The addition of chrome interior door handles is very interesting - not just for what it is but as a sign that much thought has been given to the interior ambience of the car (are they listening to me?). Hopefully the other textures and surfaces have been given the same thought and look nice. Unlike certain other recent offerings. Or the Pilot even. This is all very promising. But we are also going to have to have a lot of effective marketing to pull the masses back in. The Altima and camry both now outsell it four times over in Canada, where 2 or three years ago it was level pegging. And the 2013 Altima isnt even out the door yet.
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In research up to date, blind spot detection hasn't shown benefits. Lane departure warning actually seems to makes things worse.
http://www.iihs.org/news/rss/pr070312.html
Note that if you position the mirrors correctly, there will be no blind spot. Some of these technologies all sound good on paper, and for marketing purposes Honda has no choice but to have them.
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ClementZ
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MasterOfDaDomain wrote:
A77 wrote:
No grounds for complaint yet except the head in the sand attitude to push button start. I'd as a sales person much rather see that that the blind spot and forward collision warning systems - which are both sops for people who can't or who just don't look where they are going or adjust and use their mirrors properly. Just more idiot proofing that takes more responsibility away. And I don't really think they are wow must have features for anybody. Whereas proximity sensors and push button start are on people's check lists. On the other hand I guess I should be commending Honda for offering a safety features instead of conveniences. I just can't help but ask where all this idiot-proofing leads to apart from inattentive driving. I guess the same thing has been said about airbags and seat belts.
I find it interesting that in the info we got from Honda last week it said that the Chassis is shorter for handling reasons while interior room stays the same. Nothing about overall car length. So either it has longer overhangs or it is shorter - in which case why not say so. The civic is essentially the same outside as before but has a shorter wheelbase....
Especially nice to see an end to the crappy electroflourescant centre display, so Navi is now just a software enhancement. The addition of chrome interior door handles is very interesting - not just for what it is but as a sign that much thought has been given to the interior ambience of the car (are they listening to me?). Hopefully the other textures and surfaces have been given the same thought and look nice. Unlike certain other recent offerings. Or the Pilot even. This is all very promising. But we are also going to have to have a lot of effective marketing to pull the masses back in. The Altima and camry both now outsell it four times over in Canada, where 2 or three years ago it was level pegging. And the 2013 Altima isnt even out the door yet.
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In research up to date, blind spot detection hasn't shown benefits. Lane departure warning actually seems to makes things worse.
http://www.iihs.org/news/rss/pr070312.html
Note that if you position the mirrors correctly, there will be no blind spot. Some of these technologies all sound good on paper, and for marketing purposes Honda has no choice but to have them.
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Really?
I thought that there will always be some degree of a blind spot, regardless of mirror placement (which is why almost everyone is told to check over their shoulder when changing lanes).
And I'm not really surprised that blind spot detection and lane departure warnings make things worse. They seem to be things that would give drivers a false sense of security.
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aids333
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You've gotta be effing kidding me right?
Almost everything you mentioned is beyond superfluous. It short, they add no value to the vehicle AT ALL, beyond the additional lighting capabilities of HID.
Is this what driving has come to? Accouterments? Get a grip people, LED's are a fad, and in 10 years will date this era of vehicles. If you want any indication of the life cycle of LEDs - look at any green traffic light and estimate how many are still active. How stylish is a LED taillight with 47% of the LEDs illuminated. AND WHAT DOES THIS ADD TO THE EXPERIENCE OF OWNING AND DRIVING A CAR???
Come on people.. if you want a bently, by all means buy one, if you want the ugliest car on the road, buy a maxima. If you want a vehicle that has never made a name for itself buying into over-styled shapes and fads, but has always been reliable and has had a foothold in motorsports for decades.. buy the accord. You'll be happy you did.
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DCR
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You are entirely incorrect about LED lighting.
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TheGandalf
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aids333 wrote:
You've gotta be effing kidding me right?
Almost everything you mentioned is beyond superfluous. It short, they add no value to the vehicle AT ALL, beyond the additional lighting capabilities of HID.
Is this what driving has come to? Accouterments? Get a grip people, LED's are a fad, and in 10 years will date this era of vehicles. If you want any indication of the life cycle of LEDs - look at any green traffic light and estimate how many are still active. How stylish is a LED taillight with 47% of the LEDs illuminated. AND WHAT DOES THIS ADD TO THE EXPERIENCE OF OWNING AND DRIVING A CAR???
Come on people.. if you want a bently, by all means buy one, if you want the ugliest car on the road, buy a maxima. If you want a vehicle that has never made a name for itself buying into over-styled shapes and fads, but has always been reliable and has had a foothold in motorsports for decades.. buy the accord. You'll be happy you did.
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Where do I buy a bently?
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A77
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or [spelling nazi]accouterments[/spelling nazi]?
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Trip
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ClementZ wrote:
Really?
I thought that there will always be some degree of a blind spot, regardless of mirror placement (which is why almost everyone is told to check over their shoulder when changing lanes).
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If your mirrors are adjusted properly, you will have 360^ of visibility. As a car leaves the inside rear view mirror, you should also be able to see it in your side view mirror. As it leaves the side view mirror, you should be able to see the car next to you out the window. If the mirrors' fields of vision do not overlap, then you have a blind spot.
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montechester
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Good description of properly adjusted mirrors. Another hint, if you can clearly see the side of your own car, your side view mirrors are adjusted too far in and you have HUGE blind spots.
Even with properly adjusted mirrors, which most are NOT, you CAN still have blind spots. Because everyone is different heights and sits at different angle to the mirrors, it's just not possible to account for every conceivable combination.
Since most mirrors can only change angle, they can only compensate so much. Some rearview mirrors used to change elevation as well as angle, but this is becoming rare due to head impact standards (my understanding).
Proper use of add on convex/spot mirrors can certainly help, but proper spacial awareness while driving is the best defense against the inevitable blind spots, however small they may be.
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EternalShadowAW
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I have been looking at Accords to supplement my 220,000 mile 2000 Accord SE and 255,000 mile Civic. To my shock every single Accord (2005, 2006, 2007, 2011) I have tried all have sucked completely and are NOT what I'm looking for in a sporty but well riding car 4 door sedan that can take Grandma to the shops. Such disappointment. I've been a Honda owner all my life and really hope the 2013 makes up ground. Options are nice but what I care about are the suspension, the drivetrain package, and the steering. That's it
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ClementZ
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You thought the 7th gen Accord sucked?
Why is that?
I personally feel that that gen was arguably the best.
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