MarkR
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Finally, details of the new 2013 Honda CR-V is out in Sweden at least. Kind of disappointing though that they proudly are talking on how they manage to hold on to the weak motor... sh*t, the 2.0 petrol was already too weak for the SUV and now they are bragging that they could increase torque from 190Nm to 192Nm...sh*t, that is something. They are super proud the the CO2 emissions are on par with the germans with much more torque and Hp.
The 1.6 Diesel with 300Nm of torque (Just perfect, no performance SUV but a proper torquey family soccer SUV) will be available summer 2013.
Honda honda honda... you rock!
Yeah, sorry for the worhless post, really, but Honda, you gotta improve your motors! ED is a joke if it doesn't start to deliver in a few quarters.
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P54
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I'll help you make the post more worthy:
Honda sign Tarquini and Monteiro
http://asia.eurosport.com/wtcc/honda-sign-tarquini_sto3351659/story.shtml
JAS Motorsport are currently developing the European Honda Civic five-door racing car which will use a new 1.6 litre 4 cylinder direct injection turbo-charged petrol engine. The team will enter one car for the three final events of the 2012 WTCC with Monteiro at the wheel, at Suzuka, Shanghai and Macau. 2009 World Touring Car champion Tarquini will also assist the works team on the car's development this year.
Tarquini has claimed 17 WTCC race victories and was crowned champion in 2009; he rejoins Honda and JAS Motorsport for which he raced from 1997 to 2001 in the British, German and European Touring Car Championships.
"I am very proud that Honda called me back to restart together again. I was theirs and the team's first choice from the beginning, and we have worked together planning all the steps to set the programme up," said Tarquini.
"Honda is one of the most important brands in automotive industry and in motor sport. They have achieved countless victories in all the categories. The team is very professional and I know all the people very well from my past years with them. There will be no need for adjustment periods. We start working with a lot of optimism and I believe we have all we need to be competitive straight away."
Monteiro, who has four WTCC victories to his name as well as a third-place finish in the 2005 US Grand Prix (albeit in a race when only six drivers started), was delighted to earn a spot in the team.
"I am obviously very excited for this amazing opportunity," he said. "These are tough times in motor sport and there are not many car manufacturers ready to launch factory programmes.
"To be chosen by Honda is a big boost for my ambitions, because I know they are not playing around but will do everything in the proper way.
"And I'm really happy to team up with Gabriele again. He helped me a lot when I joined SEAT and we get very well together. Especially at the beginning he will be more involved in developing the car, because of his vast experience. However, as I am the one who will drive the car in its first races, I will take over before Suzuka and will have a test of my own in Japan," Monteiro stated.
Hideo Sato, General Manager of Honda Motorsport Division in Japan, said: "We are delighted to have Gabriele back with us and excited to welcome Tiago into the Honda racing family for the first time.
"Both are former Formula One drivers and have also proven time and again that they belong in the absolute top echelon of world touring car drivers. We are convinced that both drivers will contribute to the success of the Honda Civic in the FIA WTCC." |
BTW, why complain about the CR-V engine, isn't gas prices high enough in Sweden as not to waste it on big powerful engines? Don't read just the numbers, even if torque increase is minimal at a certain rpm does not mean it can not have been improved much more across the rpm range. The ED engines will give good improvements, power and FE.
What Honda model do you think the new above mentioned engine will be fitted into? Civic....CR-Z??
What part of Sweden are you in?
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MarkR
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P54 wrote:
I'll help you make the post more worthy:
Honda sign Tarquini and Monteiro
http://asia.eurosport.com/wtcc/honda-sign-tarquini_sto3351659/story.shtml
JAS Motorsport are currently developing the European Honda Civic five-door racing car which will use a new 1.6 litre 4 cylinder direct injection turbo-charged petrol engine. The team will enter one car for the three final events of the 2012 WTCC with Monteiro at the wheel, at Suzuka, Shanghai and Macau. 2009 World Touring Car champion Tarquini will also assist the works team on the car's development this year.
Tarquini has claimed 17 WTCC race victories and was crowned champion in 2009; he rejoins Honda and JAS Motorsport for which he raced from 1997 to 2001 in the British, German and European Touring Car Championships.
"I am very proud that Honda called me back to restart together again. I was theirs and the team's first choice from the beginning, and we have worked together planning all the steps to set the programme up," said Tarquini.
"Honda is one of the most important brands in automotive industry and in motor sport. They have achieved countless victories in all the categories. The team is very professional and I know all the people very well from my past years with them. There will be no need for adjustment periods. We start working with a lot of optimism and I believe we have all we need to be competitive straight away."
Monteiro, who has four WTCC victories to his name as well as a third-place finish in the 2005 US Grand Prix (albeit in a race when only six drivers started), was delighted to earn a spot in the team.
"I am obviously very excited for this amazing opportunity," he said. "These are tough times in motor sport and there are not many car manufacturers ready to launch factory programmes.
"To be chosen by Honda is a big boost for my ambitions, because I know they are not playing around but will do everything in the proper way.
"And I'm really happy to team up with Gabriele again. He helped me a lot when I joined SEAT and we get very well together. Especially at the beginning he will be more involved in developing the car, because of his vast experience. However, as I am the one who will drive the car in its first races, I will take over before Suzuka and will have a test of my own in Japan," Monteiro stated.
Hideo Sato, General Manager of Honda Motorsport Division in Japan, said: "We are delighted to have Gabriele back with us and excited to welcome Tiago into the Honda racing family for the first time.
"Both are former Formula One drivers and have also proven time and again that they belong in the absolute top echelon of world touring car drivers. We are convinced that both drivers will contribute to the success of the Honda Civic in the FIA WTCC." |
BTW, why complain about the CR-V engine, isn't gas prices high enough in Sweden as not to waste it on big powerful engines? Don't read just the numbers, even if torque increase is minimal at a certain rpm does not mean it can not have been improved much more across the rpm range. The ED engines will give good improvements, power and FE.
What Honda model do you think the new above mentioned engine will be fitted into? Civic....CR-Z??
What part of Sweden are you in?
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I know, I just read it. Lovely! It's good with a new CTR for the Honda image!
I understand your question but the simple answer is, no, everyday family cars doesn't need to be super quick, but they need to be "able to keep up with everyday traffic".
That means, family cars needs to do 0-100 in about 9secs nowadays and have torque to be able to accelerate well between 30-100km/h
It's not that the new CRV is bad, it's just that any diesel or small displacement turbo is swifter on the road, which makes them "easy to drive and hang onto traffic with".
Yes, Gas prices are very high in Sweden.
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DCR
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That is probably the engine we heard about a couple of years ago that never showed up in the CR-Z.
It will probably never show up in production if they are going to use it in a racing car...it probably didn't meet the green police emissions requirements.
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P54
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DCR wrote:
That is probably the engine we heard about a couple of years ago that never showed up in the CR-Z.
It will probably never show up in production if they are going to use it in a racing car...it probably didn't meet the green police emissions requirements.
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So you think a NEW "1.6 litre 4 cylinder direct injection turbo-charged petrol engine" from Honda is not going to pass emission? What a negative thinker, if anyone knows how to pass emissions it is Honda.
If they are going to race Civic seems only natural the engine they race would be a base for a street legal engine in Civic or some other model. Just like the new 250 Moto3 race engine was the base for the new street and dirt bike engine. They are also racing turbo Civics in UK so it seems likely a NEW engine will find its way to a street legal car too.
Honda has promised a new low cost sports car, the engine might fit in there.
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superchg2
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P54 wrote:
DCR wrote:
That is probably the engine we heard about a couple of years ago that never showed up in the CR-Z.
It will probably never show up in production if they are going to use it in a racing car...it probably didn't meet the green police emissions requirements.
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So you think a NEW "1.6 litre 4 cylinder direct injection turbo-charged petrol engine" from Honda is not going to pass emission? What a negative thinker, if anyone knows how to pass emissions it is Honda.
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The TSX was supposed to have had a diesel engine option, but Honda couldn't certify the automatic. Meanwhile, VW has automatic and stick shift I-4 emissions compliant diesels for sale in all 50 states.
from Hybrid Cars November 11, 2008
"Honda announced last week that it will delay the launch of its planned first diesel for the United States. The diesel-powered Acura TSX will be pushed back to 2010 from 2009, and some reports claim the company’s U.S. diesel program may be canceled completely.
The main reason for the delay is cost. Honda claims the expense of creating a diesel engine to meet California’s emissions standards—allowing it to be sold in all 50 states—has increased to more than $5,000 above a comparable gasoline-powered version.
The Japanese newspaper, Nikkei, said Honda is seeking to develop new catalytic converter technology that uses less platinum in order to keep prices down.
“We have to proceed cautiously in this environment.”
Honda spokesperson
In addition to cost factors, Honda has been unable to produce the diesel model with an automatic transmission that would pass emissions standards. Honda was not ready to move forward with marketing only a manual model in the American market.
The engine in question is a new version of Honda’s 4-cylinder 2.2-liter, i-DTEC engine. In Europe, where it’s sold in the Honda Accord—a model known as the Acura TSX in the US—the engine provides 188 horsepower, and more than 250 foot-pounds of torque.
Honda’s change of direction will send its engineers back to the diesel drawing board. In the meantime, Honda is said to already be working on a V-6 diesel that could be used in larger vehicles such as the Pilot SUV, Odyssey minivan, and Ridgeline small pickup.
Reuters recently reported that Honda also based its decision to delay on the high cost of diesel fuel. With diesel prices higher than gasoline and weakening overall vehicle demand, Honda officials argued it was not the right time to roll out a more expensive new model, even with spectacular fuel economy. The European model gets more than 60 miles to the gallon in EU driving tests."
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Colin
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superchg2 wrote:
The TSX was supposed to have had a diesel engine option, but Honda couldn't certify the automatic.
The main reason for the delay is cost. Honda claims the expense of creating a diesel engine to meet California’s emissions standards—allowing it to be sold in all 50 states—has increased to more than $5,000 above a comparable gasoline-powered version.
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I thought it had more to do with them being dead set against urea injection? Maybe that is what they're talking about when they refer to cost? It makes me wonder if urea injection patents are licensed to a competitor?
Maybe someone knows better (Jeff?), but I thought the timeline was that Honda developed a special pre-catalytic converter that generated it's own urea upstream of the main cat to be used downstream. However, after this was developed, something changed in emissions standards and this system couldn't do meet the new standards without urea injection. At that point they scrapped it for larger cars like the TSX.
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DCR
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P54 wrote:
DCR wrote:
That is probably the engine we heard about a couple of years ago that never showed up in the CR-Z.
It will probably never show up in production if they are going to use it in a racing car...it probably didn't meet the green police emissions requirements.
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So you think a NEW "1.6 litre 4 cylinder direct injection turbo-charged petrol engine" from Honda is not going to pass emission? What a negative thinker, if anyone knows how to pass emissions it is Honda.
If they are going to race Civic seems only natural the engine they race would be a base for a street legal engine in Civic or some other model. Just like the new 250 Moto3 race engine was the base for the new street and dirt bike engine. They are also racing turbo Civics in UK so it seems likely a NEW engine will find its way to a street legal car too.
Honda has promised a new low cost sports car, the engine might fit in there.
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Promises, promises.
Yes, they know how to pass emissions so effectively that they killed the K20?
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notyper
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I thought all touring cars used a 1.6t now. It's the new spec. This may not be a production engine at all
SC
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sadlerau
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notyper wrote:
I thought all touring cars used a 1.6t now. It's the new spec. This may not be a production engine at all
SC
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I think the new formula requires the race motors be based on production units?
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sadlerau
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sadlerau wrote:
I think the new formula requires the race motors be based on production units?
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From the FIA website -
http://www.fiawtcc.com/uploads/regulation/technical-regulations.pdf
ARTICLE 1 : DEFINITION
Large-scale series production touring cars modified by a kit.
The engine used must be derived from the homologated model modified by the kit.
ARTICLE 2 : HOMOLOGATION
At least 2500 fully identical units must have been produced in 12 consecutive months and homologated by the FIA in Touring Cars (Group A).
Supply Variants (VF) homologated in Touring Cars (Group A) are also valid in Production Cars (Group N).
At worst Honda will need to build 2500 of these engines.
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P54
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DCR wrote:
P54 wrote:
DCR wrote:
That is probably the engine we heard about a couple of years ago that never showed up in the CR-Z.
It will probably never show up in production if they are going to use it in a racing car...it probably didn't meet the green police emissions requirements.
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So you think a NEW "1.6 litre 4 cylinder direct injection turbo-charged petrol engine" from Honda is not going to pass emission? What a negative thinker, if anyone knows how to pass emissions it is Honda.
If they are going to race Civic seems only natural the engine they race would be a base for a street legal engine in Civic or some other model. Just like the new 250 Moto3 race engine was the base for the new street and dirt bike engine. They are also racing turbo Civics in UK so it seems likely a NEW engine will find its way to a street legal car too.
Honda has promised a new low cost sports car, the engine might fit in there.
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Promises, promises.
Yes, they know how to pass emissions so effectively that they killed the K20?
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Keep up with your pessimism and you might end up like this man.
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DCR
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I would pick the sand before I shoved my head up where yours currently is.
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ClementZ
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DCR wrote:
P54 wrote:
DCR wrote:
That is probably the engine we heard about a couple of years ago that never showed up in the CR-Z.
It will probably never show up in production if they are going to use it in a racing car...it probably didn't meet the green police emissions requirements.
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So you think a NEW "1.6 litre 4 cylinder direct injection turbo-charged petrol engine" from Honda is not going to pass emission? What a negative thinker, if anyone knows how to pass emissions it is Honda.
If they are going to race Civic seems only natural the engine they race would be a base for a street legal engine in Civic or some other model. Just like the new 250 Moto3 race engine was the base for the new street and dirt bike engine. They are also racing turbo Civics in UK so it seems likely a NEW engine will find its way to a street legal car too.
Honda has promised a new low cost sports car, the engine might fit in there.
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Promises, promises.
Yes, they know how to pass emissions so effectively that they killed the K20?
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...is that really what killed the K20?
An inability to make it pass emissions?
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P54
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DCR wrote:
I would pick the sand before I shoved my head up where yours currently is.
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P54
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ClementZ wrote:
DCR wrote:
P54 wrote:
DCR wrote:
That is probably the engine we heard about a couple of years ago that never showed up in the CR-Z.
It will probably never show up in production if they are going to use it in a racing car...it probably didn't meet the green police emissions requirements.
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So you think a NEW "1.6 litre 4 cylinder direct injection turbo-charged petrol engine" from Honda is not going to pass emission? What a negative thinker, if anyone knows how to pass emissions it is Honda.
If they are going to race Civic seems only natural the engine they race would be a base for a street legal engine in Civic or some other model. Just like the new 250 Moto3 race engine was the base for the new street and dirt bike engine. They are also racing turbo Civics in UK so it seems likely a NEW engine will find its way to a street legal car too.
Honda has promised a new low cost sports car, the engine might fit in there.
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Promises, promises.
Yes, they know how to pass emissions so effectively that they killed the K20?
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...is that really what killed the K20?
An inability to make it pass emissions?
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Honda killed the Civic R and NSX due to stricter emission but NOT because they were not able to make them pass emission if they wanted. Due to stricter standards Honda had to update/modify and since they had new vehicles in mind with new engines coming they killed the outgoing models when emission tightened.
Due to the financial crises Honda pulled the new NSX and later the R, however due to tsunami and flooding new models with new engines got delayed a year.
New models with new engines are coming. Let Honda be the one to determine whether they want to spend money updating an older engine design or spend the money on a new engine design in a new vehicle that will last longer into future.
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BachelorFrog
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I doubt that Honda killed the NSX due to stricter emissions.
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CarPhreakD
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BachelorFrog wrote:
I doubt that Honda killed the NSX due to stricter emissions.
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Yes, Honda killed the NSX due to emissions regulations. They never updated the C32 and even by early 2000's standards it wasn't going to pass muster.
I guess the main problem with Honda is that the strategy of high revving engines demands a high level of head flow and a valve action that at times encouraged air/fuel to go into the head... and some of it straight out the other end. That plus the combustion characteristics is pretty bad for emissions. Despite that I think Honda could get more out of the K20 if they had actually tried, but they would probably benefit from new variable valve timing tech along with new emissions equipment to get there (so why bother updating an old engine, I guess).
Unfortunately this new trend of ultra-low friction, low revving engines with diesel-like torque characteristics is probably here to stay for at least the next generation of vehicles.
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DCR
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Don't tell P54 that. He will just avoid the topic and attack you.
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notyper
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I'm pretty sure the homologation applies to the specific car model itself. I tried a brief search to find some more info on the engine specs, but it wasn't clear.
It appears that you can add a "kit" to upgrade an existing engine if you don't already have a turbo (the 1.6 turbo was probably pushed by BMW and its associates at PSA since that fits their exisitng 1.6 to a T).
Still not clear though. Certainly the direct injection part is not something that could be added in the aftermarket though - at least not easily.
SC
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notyper
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Ok, the new WTCC stuff does not seem to be production (or at least required to be).
http://motoren.wordpress.com/2012/01/21/chevrolet-cruze-wtcc-engine-designer-wins-coveted-award/
Note that the new WTCC engine for Chevy Cruze (which competed while the 2.0 NA and turbodiesels were still allowed and it crushed everything) is a from scratch motorsport engine.
SC
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mobis21
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I'm confused. You are talking about the new CR-V in Europe, and bitching about no new improvements.
It's coming with Honda's entirely new 1.6 Earth Dreams Diesel. Only at TOV to Honda fans bitch about ALL NEW engines.
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MarkR
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mobis21 wrote:
I'm confused. You are talking about the new CR-V in Europe, and bitching about no new improvements.
It's coming with Honda's entirely new 1.6 Earth Dreams Diesel. Only at TOV to Honda fans bitch about ALL NEW engines.
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Well, there won't be any new 1.6Diesel THIS YEAR, over a year later after they so proudly announced ED. The new enginges to the CR-V is scheduled for next summer!
Which is Ok if it's simply amazing.
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CarPhreakD
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By that logic, we should be slagging the hundreds of other cars, concept and no, that were announced 3 years ago and haven't come out.
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Fan Koni
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I thought they where allowed to use it because the cruze is sold in few countries with a 1.6T - like in China. That 1.6T is an OPEL engine around for few years now, I think it has very similar bore/stroke but no DI.
Now they are introducing DI 1.6 Turbos, I wonder how much the race engine inspired that. If at all, as they have been working in DI turbos for while now.
http://media.opel.com/media/intl/en/opel/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/intl/en/2012/opel/05_14_New_generation_1_6_turbo.html
Honda was late with a 1.6T Diesel, so maybe they want to be "earlier" with a 1.6T DI - it could work in so many cars.
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