bkr
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Well, I was REALLY looking forward to driving a 6 speed Accord Sport or EX sedan in the fall. I was so glad to see see the Order Pages here a while back of the manual configured sedans.
But apparently it was not meant to be. The transmission in our 2002 Odyssey EX decided it had done enough after 185,00 miles (interestingly, the Consumer Reports reliability info shows “Transmission-major” as the only solid black dot).
So, as we are becoming empty nesters, I was forced into picking a new mid sized sedan prematurely. We had three requirements:
1. Manual transmission (we have had five manual Accords from the 2nd through 6th gen, and throw in two Civics with 5 speeds as well).
2. Good interior room
3. Good highway gas mileage and cruising characteristics, as we take a lot of long trips
Today, there are surprisingly few candidates. Nissan has gone the CVT route. Toyota has given up altogether on manual transmissions. The Mazda 6 is pending a major redesign. Hyundai and Kia are eschewing manuals in the higher sedan trim levels as well. The manual TSX is nice, but it is a little pricier and I wouldn't take the dive with the ED engines so close.
So somehow I ended up at the VW dealer looking at the Passat TDI SE 6 speed. And I’m glad I did. The car fits the bill perfectly:
1. Great mileage! After 100 miles of mostly suburban driving I am averaging 42 miles per gallon! (On this same route in our 2007 CRV we get about 24-25 mpg.)
At 60mph in 6th gear, the engine is turning only 1600 rpm.
2. The low end (236 pounds) torque is amazing on winding back roads.
3. The build quality is excellent and the controls are very elegant and easy to learn.
4. The rear seat is cavernous – I had two 6 foot three inch friends sit in the back, and they still had 6 inches of leg room in front of their knees - with the driver and passenger seats well back.
The dealer had to go about 300 miles away to get the car, as there were only about 8 manual Passat TDIs in the entire Northeast. But I got the exact color that I wanted.
Of course, as a long time Honda only owner, the elephant in the room is reliability. VW is no Honda in this regard. We will see if their new plant in TN has turned the corner. And instead of keeping this car until 150,000 miles or more (which we did with nearly all our Accords and Civics) we may look to the 10 gen Accord around 2017. :-)
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longhorn
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Keep us informed on the reliability front. Its impressive VW is on its way of meeting its aggressive sale goals.
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BelizeSixMT
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It gets great mileage, but do you mind paying the extra dough for diesel?
As Honda and Acura continue to F things up more and more, I've been tempted more and more to stray from the brand. VW, despite all the grumblings I hear about its reliability, is one of them. I'd only consider a GTI. Then again, I've been having issues with my past few Hondas/Acuras that no tech can seem to diagnose or fix.
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bkr
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Yes, the diesel here is in NY is about 10% higher than regular (about the same as premium). But with a 35-40% improvement in mileage, it is still is good deal. At a steady 65mpg I see 53mpg, and at a steady 75mph I see 45mpg...
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ezshift5
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"The elephant in the room is reliability" is - IMHO - a really colorful and cogent statement.
After seven VW's - bug, 914, Ghia, (still have the diesel pickup) - I look forward to your continuing reliability observations......
ez
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superchg2
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The TDI has great fuel mileage and the new Passat's look well put together. Hopefully, VW has turned the corner as far as long term reliability goes.
It's too bad that Acura and Honda never brought their 2.2 diesel
to the U.S. market.
Enjoy your new Passat!
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Powered by Honda
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built proof engine. Tank like.
I know alot of people who have had vw's for over 10 years and have had only minor minor issues. I've had more issues with my 6th gen accord...and thats saying something. The vw's were made in mexico too. So my biased about mexicans can't build things and made in japan is higher quality went out the window when I learned waht I did.
great car and congrats. I'm trying to figure out how to get the new accord and the new ats.... I might only be able to get 1.
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longhorn
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Insideline got 51.7 in a Passat TDI on the hwy in their 40mpg comparo test. Thats sick......even with the Diesel surcharge, one comes out ahead.
http://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/the-40-mpg-challenge.html
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typer_801
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This couple got 84 mpg in their TDI Passat going 1621 miles on one tank of fuel.
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2012/05/84-mpg-couple-drives-vw-passat-diesel-record-chevrolet-cruze-/1
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according2kev
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Congrats on your purchase.
I really like the clean conservative look of the Passat compared to some of its competitors. Hope you have a reliable experience.
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Honda1
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Keep in mind the engine has a timing belt which needs to be replaced.
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HONDA AFVM
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bkr wrote:
Yes, the diesel here is in NY is about 10% higher than regular (about the same as premium). But with a 35-40% improvement in mileage, it is still is good deal. At a steady 65mpg I see 53mpg, and at a steady 75mph I see 45mpg...
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Congratz........I am not a believer or fan of diesel, but VW has that department down pat.........Let me ask you this; How much is it to replace the Urea gas, how often do you have to change it? We took a M.B. in trade a year after they bought it, the customer said it was $430 bucks to replace the urea gas. He could easily afford it, but he was mad that he was never informed there was even such a gas and or the price to fill it......If I remember, his car had 25,000 miles on it......
Otherwise, not a bad car.......we typically have a lot of problems with VW's, people trade them when the warranty is up, and then we end up spending GOBS of cash to fix them......we bring a lot of them, 3 to 5 years old to auction........
Good luck and keep us posted........it does have a lot of room in it.......
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DrWhiner
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It's supposed to last 10,000 miles, under normal driving.
@OP: have you got an extended warranty, as part of your negotiation, or you don't plan to keep it for long?
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FiSH-Chan
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Honda1 wrote:
Keep in mind the engine has a timing belt which needs to be replaced.
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Isn't that they have a exhaust filter that also needs to replace if you don't drive the car engine hot enough?
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intune
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HONDA AFVM wrote:
.........Let me ask you this; How much is it to replace the Urea gas, how often do you have to change it? We took a M.B. in trade a year after they bought it, the customer said it was $430 bucks to replace the urea gas. He could easily afford it, but he was mad that he was never informed there was even such a gas and or the price to fill it......If I remember, his car had 25,000 miles on it...... |
http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/03/23/a-lower-cost-filling-solution-for-the-mercedes-benz-ml350-bluetec/
But retailers including AutoZone and Napa Auto Parts offer 2.5-gallon jugs of DEF for around $13, barely $5 a gallon, meaning that some dealers are marking up the fluid more than 600 percent over retail prices.
The do-it-yourselfer, then, could fully refill the Bluetec for less than $40.
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MarkR
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bkr wrote:
Well, I was REALLY looking forward to driving a 6 speed Accord Sport or EX sedan in the fall. I was so glad to see see the Order Pages here a while back of the manual configured sedans.
But apparently it was not meant to be. The transmission in our 2002 Odyssey EX decided it had done enough after 185,00 miles (interestingly, the Consumer Reports reliability info shows “Transmission-major” as the only solid black dot).
So, as we are becoming empty nesters, I was forced into picking a new mid sized sedan prematurely. We had three requirements:
1. Manual transmission (we have had five manual Accords from the 2nd through 6th gen, and throw in two Civics with 5 speeds as well).
2. Good interior room
3. Good highway gas mileage and cruising characteristics, as we take a lot of long trips
Today, there are surprisingly few candidates. Nissan has gone the CVT route. Toyota has given up altogether on manual transmissions. The Mazda 6 is pending a major redesign. Hyundai and Kia are eschewing manuals in the higher sedan trim levels as well. The manual TSX is nice, but it is a little pricier and I wouldn't take the dive with the ED engines so close.
So somehow I ended up at the VW dealer looking at the Passat TDI SE 6 speed. And I’m glad I did. The car fits the bill perfectly:
1. Great mileage! After 100 miles of mostly suburban driving I am averaging 42 miles per gallon! (On this same route in our 2007 CRV we get about 24-25 mpg.)
At 60mph in 6th gear, the engine is turning only 1600 rpm.
2. The low end (236 pounds) torque is amazing on winding back roads.
3. The build quality is excellent and the controls are very elegant and easy to learn.
4. The rear seat is cavernous – I had two 6 foot three inch friends sit in the back, and they still had 6 inches of leg room in front of their knees - with the driver and passenger seats well back.
The dealer had to go about 300 miles away to get the car, as there were only about 8 manual Passat TDIs in the entire Northeast. But I got the exact color that I wanted.
Of course, as a long time Honda only owner, the elephant in the room is reliability. VW is no Honda in this regard. We will see if their new plant in TN has turned the corner. And instead of keeping this car until 150,000 miles or more (which we did with nearly all our Accords and Civics) we may look to the 10 gen Accord around 2017. :-)
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Congrats! I'm sure it will be a great car.
It will last you 5-6years equally well as a Honda, maybe one electronic glitch more OR less than a Honda but it's the same with all cars nowadays.
At least you know you have a modern powerful engine under the hood, when you blip the pedal in highway speed you know the Hondas will be left behind. (Until the amazing ED's come with +3 more HP and 10% more torque ;) )
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DrWhiner
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http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/03/23/a-lower-cost-filling-solution-for-the-mercedes-benz-ml350-bluetec/
"Donna Boland, the corporate communications manager for Mercedes-Benz USA, said in an interview that the dealer servicing also includes a flushing of the system. She added that owners who opt to replace the DEF on their own should follow the product instructions explicitly and be certain that the solution is viable, as it can crystallize if it lingers on a shelf for too long."
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Just read that according to VW the adblue lasts roughly one year and it is temp. sensitive. The car comes with fancy tech. to avoid it from freezing. Make sure you get some fresh stock from the parts store.
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DrWhiner
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http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/03/23/a-lower-cost-filling-solution-for-the-mercedes-benz-ml350-bluetec/
"Donna Boland, the corporate communications manager for Mercedes-Benz USA, said in an interview that the dealer servicing also includes a flushing of the system. She added that owners who opt to replace the DEF on their own should follow the product instructions explicitly and be certain that the solution is viable, as it can crystallize if it lingers on a shelf for too long."
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Just read that according to VW the adblue lasts roughly one year and it is temp. sensitive. The car comes with fancy tech. to avoid it from freezing. Make sure you get some fresh stock from the parts store.
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bkr
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Mileage update:
OK, after about 2000 miles in the Passat TDI manual, here is what we see:
1. Averaging 42.5 mpg! Nearly equal to the 43mpg EPA highway figure. This is with about 20% city, 20% highway and 60% mixed suburban driving.
2. Best loop: we have a 37 mile trip that we make very frequently. It involves 12 miles of interstate cruising, 5 miles of stop and go, and then about 20 miles of back country roads with speed limits between 30 and 55.
The best we could ever do on this trip in our 2007 CRV EX-L was 28mpg.
Last week we had our first try in the Passat. On arriving home I was stunned to see the trip odometer: 60.0 mpg!.
This is a truly amazing powerplant. At a steady 50-55mph cruise on flat terrain, it seems to return 65-85mpg.
Based on how the 2012 Civic crushes the EPA highway reading (39 EPA, 47 actual for Civic LX per Consumer Reports) it wouldn't surprise me if the '13 ED Accord delivers a real world 40-44 on the highway.
But I have become so accustomed to seeing the trip odometer always > 40, I guess we will have to get a few years into this diesel thing :-). ..
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superchg2
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bkr, thanks for the update.
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typer_801
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Thanks for hte update bkr.
I've never really wanted a diesel, but the usable torque and incredible mpg really make them practical for daily driving. Still have a sour taste in my mouth from previous VW's, so hoping the new Sky-D from Mazda gets here soon in something I could drive (Mazda 5 or Mazda 6 wagon). MT preferred, but I'd consider a nice 6AT with this motor. Bring 'em Mazda!!!!
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longhorn
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Awesome mileage.............congrats
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A77
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Sick mileage. The trend seems to be away from diesels - even in Europe where tine 2 and 3 gasser cylinder turbos are in vogue - I never got less than 47 imperial mpg in my TDI no matter how hard I drove it. Even on a continental europe trip where it saw 124mph on one stretch. Diesel is cheaper than regular in Canada right now. Such a shame the TSX diesel never quite made it. i'd have bought it without thinking.
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CarGuyLee
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typer_801 wrote:
Thanks for hte update bkr.
I've never really wanted a diesel, but the usable torque and incredible mpg really make them practical for daily driving. Still have a sour taste in my mouth from previous VW's, so hoping the new Sky-D from Mazda gets here soon in something I could drive (Mazda 5 or Mazda 6 wagon). MT preferred, but I'd consider a nice 6AT with this motor. Bring 'em Mazda!!!!
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I could go with a Mazda6 Wagon with Sky-D!
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bkr
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Yes, I agree completely. VW is offering no incentives on any of their TDI products - and they sell every one. The diesel share of their total sales is now > 20%!
I remember early reviews of the Accord Euro Spec diesel were fantastic. And since Honda has announced as part of the ED initiative to bring its diesel technology significantly forward, it would seem to make sense to at least reconsider their decision to stay out of the US diesel market.
How about this technology from Honda for the US market?
-----------------------------------------------------
A compact diesel engine which realizes the world's lightest body*1, top-of-class*1 acceleration performance and fuel efficiency.
Through optimizing engine rigidity and combustion pressure, an aluminum open deck for the cylinder block was enabled in this top-of-industry lightweight*1 1.6L class diesel engine.
By downsizing from the present 2.2L engine and extensively reducing mechanical friction in each section, a friction level equivalent to present gasoline engine models was achieved.
Optimized thermal management system thanks to improvements in the cooling system reduces CO2 output by over 15%*3.
Employment of a compact, high-efficiency turbocharger and weight reduction in the reciprocating sliding section realizes a sporty and nimble ride.
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