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DCR
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FiSH-Chan wrote:
DCR wrote:
| The car says Akio Toyoda is inspired in part from the vintage Toyota 2000 GT and Corolla Levin AE86. ‘When the Toyota 2000 GT was built, I was eleven years old – and I loved it. I said: “I want to drive something like this when I grow up”. My dream came true when I drove a 2000 GT in a vintage car rally. |
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I realize the inspiration, but why not show both the GT2000 and the ae86 with the FR-S ( i won't call it the gt86 anymore) in the middle or something and say its inspired by those. It's more like a GT2000 and less like the ae86. IMO it's only there because it's so popular with people who don't know much with cars and more about reading manga and watching cartoon, well those in this region at least. at myr 234k (81kUSD) this type of people can't afford it too.
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I think they have taken that approach:
http://www.scion.com/frsheritage/
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NealX
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^It makes me feel proud to read those words again. Alas...
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NealX
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Just checked out that site.
At the most basic level, it's simply refreshing to see a car company not afraid to use the word, "Japanese."
:-/
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HappaSaiyan
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DCR wrote:
Manually dig in the 2000 archives, you will see it. Their site search indexing sucks, which is why you can't search for it:
02/01/2001 - Torrance, Calif. INTRODUCTION
The limited-edition Integra Type R Sports Coupe has been developed to maximize the sporty car's dynamic capabilities and further emphasize Acura's belief that driving is its own reward. There were three primary targets during the development process: performance, handling and control, and an exciting driving experience. Engineering teams, which included racing veterans from the Formula One ranks, incorporated the dynamic essence of true race cars while developing the Type R, and thoroughly carried the "driving pleasure" theme through every stage of development. Not surprisingly, a heavy emphasis was placed on the Type R's performance on the racetrack during development, all in an effort to deliver an exciting car with exceptional acceleration, braking and handling capabilities.
CONCEPTS AND GOALS
The Integra Type R Sports Coupe was designed to achieve:
•Quick response and acceleration through its high-revving VTEC engine
•Outstanding cornering response thanks, in part, to a lower center of gravity and track-tuned suspension to enable linear cornering with minimal understeer
•Enhanced braking performance with larger-capacity, fade-resistant brakes designed to withstand severe racetrack test conditions
•Unique styling and exclusive features such as a Type R-exclusive rear wing spoiler, 5-bolt alloy wheels and Type R graphics
OVERVIEW
The limited production Type R model first joined the Acura Integra line-up in 1997 and was an overnight sensation. Like its fellow Integra models, the Type R features numerous technological innovations that maximize performance and handling, and provide high levels of safety, durability and efficiency. However, it goes a step further by embodying the spirit and technological achievements demonstrated in Formula One racing. Thus, it is clear that engineers placed a heavy emphasis on the performance characteristics of the Type R during development.
Key performance features that differentiate the Type R include:
•195-horsepower, 1.8-liter, dual overhead cam, 16-valve VTEC inline 4-cylinder engine that is among the highest rated normally aspirated mass-produced engines in terms of horsepower per liter
•Hand-polished intake and exhaust ports and single-port intake manifold
•An exhaust system with a larger diameter to allow larger volume flow
•Overall vehicle weight reduced by 33 lbs. (15 kg)
•Torque-sensitive helical limited slip differential
•Lower overall vehicle height (by 15 mm) and aerodynamic refinements that result in 30% less lift (Cl) and 1% less drag (Cd)
•Racetrack-calibrated suspension and high-performance tires
•Larger disk brakes with performance-oriented calipers
•Refined Anti-Lock Braking System (ABS)
•Reinforced unit body structure
A number of other features were added to heighten the sporty appeal of the Type R, including:
•Chin spoiler, wing-type rear spoiler, and body-colored side sills
•Lightweight aluminum alloy wheels
•Sport-style seats
•Leather-wrapped steering wheel and aluminum shifter knob
•Special serial number plate affixed to the center console
•Carbon fiber-like instrumentation design with amber illumination
•"Type R" graphics
In the true spirit of racing, a select number of comfort and convenience features on the Integra Type R have been eliminated in an effort to minimize the vehicle's overall weight. These include items such as a sunroof, vanity mirrors and cruise control. Other items that have been eliminated for weight considerations include dashboard insulator, transmission mount, drive shaft and shifter dynamic damper, and melt-sheet for the floor stamping.
Key safety features of the Type R include:
•Standard driver's and front passenger's Supplemental Restraint System (SRS) air bags on all models
•3-point seat belts
•Projector beam headlights
•Front and rear crumple zones
•Side-impact protection
Like other 2001 Integra models, Type R's standard features include:
•105,000-mile tune-up intervals
•A vehicle immobilizer anti-theft system
•An On-board Vapor Recovery System -- two years earlier than required by regulation
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reading that is like reading an engineers dream spec sheet.
acuras new bulletpoints are like
• pzlev
• 30mpg
• low-resistant crappy tires
blah.
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S600=Dream
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I sat in one, and I thought it was a bit cramped. I have a 1990 Miata. The Miata works for me because it's a drop top. Basically, I never drive the MX-5 with the top up because it's a fairly miserable experience. SUPER noisy. I feel like the 86 is going to have the same problem, but you can't put the top down. *Every* review I've read says it's a noisy car. Plus, in the engine noise recordings of the 86 that I've heard, it sounds like a high revving Subaru flat four. That's...not so good. I just don't see it being a good DD...I see it as a weekend car that you can't put the top down on, or an uncomfortable, noisy, Subaru-fart-sound-powered small commuter car. Just personal preference, I reckon.
That said, I bet it's great to drive, though. You can't go wrong in a car with a relatively small wheelbase and rear drive. I'd still much rather have a new Miata, however, and I'm frankly bothered by the gooshing and blubbering over the 86 when the Miata has been doing what it's doing for 22 years now without much credit. I, for one, was fascinated when everyone was like "OMG, a cheap Japanese rear drive sports car will *finally* be on the market to drive!". I looked outside, confirmed that I indeed had a cheap rear drive Japanese sports car outside, and proceeded to think everyone was drunk.
Anyhow.
As an aside, I have driven the CR-Z, and I don't understand the motoring press or any of the folks who flat out think of it as a failure. I mean, a lot of people have driven one, but a lot of people haven't, and still have strong opinions about the thing. It's got the best interior of any car near it's price, it's got fantastic seats, it's seating position and headroom are great, and I, for one, had a blast driving it. It's easy to rotate, it's got enough punch for legal road limits, it's growly and sort of cheeky sounding, and folks are getting absurdly good real world gas mileage with it. Gotta be honest with you, I'd buy it over a BRZ as a DD because of it's benefits on gas mileage, comfort, reliability, and sweet ass interior. Come track day I bet it'd be entertaining enough as well. Slow, but so is the 86 in the grand scheme of the world.
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TL;DR: I'm glad that the 86 is on the market because it will force everyone to compete with it. That's great!
I hope Honda does so in the form of a CR-Z with extra goodness, because it has potential to be just as good.
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notyper
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@s600=Dream
1. I was quite pleased by the headroom in the FR-S. It actually has some nice scooped out areas in the headliner such that even at my size I wasn't brushing the roof with my hair. With a helmet would be a tighter fit, but again, I'm substantially above average in size. A 6'2" 180 lbs guy would probably have no problem wearing a helmet in this car.
2. I can't comment on high speed road noise, but at low speeds it is relatively quiet. Certainly quieter than an S2000 with the top up. I think the key here is that it has an actual integrated roof, rather than a convertible top. A real roof with lining and insulation makes a big difference in terms of noise.
3. Engine noise does not sound very Subaru to me. It doesn't have near the off-beat 3-1 Boxer rumble, probably because the header pipes aren't unequal length like the turbo Subarus. It certainly doesn't sound like a inline four either. The sound is, for the most part, rather anodyne, but hardly offensive IMO. Then again, the B18C is still my favorite sounding Honda (over the F20 and K20), so take my opinion there with a grain of salt.
I'm with you on the Miata. I always give it lots of praise for bringing about cars like the S2000. But you have to remember that the Miata has several limitations for a serious enthusiast. (1) Convertible - chassis stiffness, safety issues on track, extra weight, extra cost (2) Power - has gotten much better, but still a little on the weak side. The FR-S gives you a stiffer chassis (it really is solid), a lower Cg, more power and a little more practicality. Clearly some people would prefer the roadster over the hardtop, but I think there are plenty of both to support sales. Remember when the S2000 came out that plenty of people were asking for a dedicated coupe version.
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Nick GravesX
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The roadster is coming.
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Grace141
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Notyper, I agree with you about the FRS/BRZ car looking to be a great driver's sports car. It has its work cut out for it though when it comes to unseating the Miata as the go-to regular guy road racing track car.
Heck, it's 2012 and we're comparing affordable sports cars sold in the US. Who thought that would happen?
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notyper
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I don't think anything is going to unseat the Miata. You can buy a semi-competitive Spec Miata for under $10k used and go racing 10-20 weekends/year if you live in the right area. And it'll probably cost you about $500 weekend (absent travel/lodging) to race it. And if something breaks, it's cheap to fix.
The sheer number of Miatas already in circulation pretty much guarantees that it'll be a fixture at race tracks for at least another 10 years, and Mazda doesn't appear to be ready to let it slip from its perch.
That said, while I don't know how big the number of FR-S/BRZ actually running wheel-to-wheel will be, but I expect that within 2 years it'll match or exceed the number of S2000s you see at track events (s2000 being one of the most popular and most common cars after the Miata at your typical track event).
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NealX
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notyper wrote:
@s600=Dream
1. I was quite pleased by the headroom in the FR-S. It actually has some nice scooped out areas in the headliner such that even at my size I wasn't brushing the roof with my hair. With a helmet would be a tighter fit, but again, I'm substantially above average in size. A 6'2" 180 lbs guy would probably have no problem wearing a helmet in this car.
2. I can't comment on high speed road noise, but at low speeds it is relatively quiet. Certainly quieter than an S2000 with the top up. I think the key here is that it has an actual integrated roof, rather than a convertible top. A real roof with lining and insulation makes a big difference in terms of noise.
3. Engine noise does not sound very Subaru to me. It doesn't have near the off-beat 3-1 Boxer rumble, probably because the header pipes aren't unequal length like the turbo Subarus. It certainly doesn't sound like a inline four either. The sound is, for the most part, rather anodyne, but hardly offensive IMO. Then again, the B18C is still my favorite sounding Honda (over the F20 and K20), so take my opinion there with a grain of salt.
I'm with you on the Miata. I always give it lots of praise for bringing about cars like the S2000. But you have to remember that the Miata has several limitations for a serious enthusiast. (1) Convertible - chassis stiffness, safety issues on track, extra weight, extra cost (2) Power - has gotten much better, but still a little on the weak side. The FR-S gives you a stiffer chassis (it really is solid), a lower Cg, more power and a little more practicality. Clearly some people would prefer the roadster over the hardtop, but I think there are plenty of both to support sales. Remember when the S2000 came out that plenty of people were asking for a dedicated coupe version.
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I was told that the internal structure and hard points are set up such that it will accommodate a roll cage without infringing upon the stock seat belt placement. And that with the rear seats folded down, will hold 4, full-size wheels/tires for a trip to the track.
Thinking back to the concept of an S2000 "coupe," there was for a while, an image/rendering making the rounds of an S2000 in a sort of BMW Z3 (M) hatch setup. I remember it looked pretty sharp and made quite an impression on me because my mental image of it is still pretty clear. I think shortly thereafter the MUGEN CF hardtop was released and later the OEM accessory.
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notyper
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Yeah Neal, but I still wish they'd done a true coupe. The hardtop really wasn't good for anything but protecting the soft-top in winter. Sure, we have to run one on the race car, but it isn't structural and wouldn't do much in a crash (although when our last S2000 race car was wrecked our Mugen top, which was attached to the roll cage, did stay in place through 6 barrel rolls).
A true coupe would have had much more storage space, better aero and better NVH. And it would have made an already stiff chassis even more amazing and it could have even been lighter. Ah, what might have been....
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RocketRon
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Double J wrote:
What is this talk of a RWD luxury coupe and ILX coupe? Don't tease now lol.
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The talk about a production HSV-010?
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sadlerau
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RocketRon wrote:
Double J wrote:
What is this talk of a RWD luxury coupe and ILX coupe? Don't tease now lol.
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The talk about a production HSV-010?
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Knowing Honda, DON'T HOLD YOUR BREATH!
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Nick GravesX
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Neal wrote:
notyper wrote:
@s600=Dream
1. I was quite pleased by the headroom in the FR-S. It actually has some nice scooped out areas in the headliner such that even at my size I wasn't brushing the roof with my hair. With a helmet would be a tighter fit, but again, I'm substantially above average in size. A 6'2" 180 lbs guy would probably have no problem wearing a helmet in this car.
2. I can't comment on high speed road noise, but at low speeds it is relatively quiet. Certainly quieter than an S2000 with the top up. I think the key here is that it has an actual integrated roof, rather than a convertible top. A real roof with lining and insulation makes a big difference in terms of noise.
3. Engine noise does not sound very Subaru to me. It doesn't have near the off-beat 3-1 Boxer rumble, probably because the header pipes aren't unequal length like the turbo Subarus. It certainly doesn't sound like a inline four either. The sound is, for the most part, rather anodyne, but hardly offensive IMO. Then again, the B18C is still my favorite sounding Honda (over the F20 and K20), so take my opinion there with a grain of salt.
I'm with you on the Miata. I always give it lots of praise for bringing about cars like the S2000. But you have to remember that the Miata has several limitations for a serious enthusiast. (1) Convertible - chassis stiffness, safety issues on track, extra weight, extra cost (2) Power - has gotten much better, but still a little on the weak side. The FR-S gives you a stiffer chassis (it really is solid), a lower Cg, more power and a little more practicality. Clearly some people would prefer the roadster over the hardtop, but I think there are plenty of both to support sales. Remember when the S2000 came out that plenty of people were asking for a dedicated coupe version.
SC
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I was told that the internal structure and hard points are set up such that it will accommodate a roll cage without infringing upon the stock seat belt placement. And that with the rear seats folded down, will hold 4, full-size wheels/tires for a trip to the track.
Thinking back to the concept of an S2000 "coupe," there was for a while, an image/rendering making the rounds of an S2000 in a sort of BMW Z3 (M) hatch setup. I remember it looked pretty sharp and made quite an impression on me because my mental image of it is still pretty clear. I think shortly thereafter the MUGEN CF hardtop was released and later the OEM accessory.
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This is all true; Early reports also suggest that the exhaust and inlet design may be quite easily improved (unlike Honda!) for those running in the right classes. The car will be as significant as the MX-5, Elise and S2000 for those connoisseurs of proper engineering & track days etc.
And if rumours were Hondas, there'd be international gridlock & no Fleetwood Mac.
It's significant no-one GAF about the Model Release Matrix these years...
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JDMImport
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notyper wrote:
I don't think anything is going to unseat the Miata. You can buy a semi-competitive Spec Miata for under $10k used and go racing 10-20 weekends/year if you live in the right area. And it'll probably cost you about $500 weekend (absent travel/lodging) to race it. And if something breaks, it's cheap to fix.
The sheer number of Miatas already in circulation pretty much guarantees that it'll be a fixture at race tracks for at least another 10 years, and Mazda doesn't appear to be ready to let it slip from its perch.
That said, while I don't know how big the number of FR-S/BRZ actually running wheel-to-wheel will be, but I expect that within 2 years it'll match or exceed the number of S2000s you see at track events (s2000 being one of the most popular and most common cars after the Miata at your typical track event).
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100% agree.
I had the opportunity to sit in a BRZ and I was quite impressed with its looks and overall seating position. I read that Subaru is only importing 5,000 or so units and Toyota is importing a few more FR-Ss here, but it will be a few years before you see an abundance showing up at the track.
Personally, I'm a big fan of the Toyobaru's. Something the Miata has proven is you don't need the glamor of outrageous horsepower to have a winner at the track. If The BRZ/FR-S is eventually produced in high quantity for years to come, I expect a winner at the track.
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RocketRon
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Miata vs Si, circa 2009:
http://www.roadandtrack.com/racing/motorsports/25-hours-of-thunderhill-trial-by-fire
"After 25 hours and 645 laps of racing, Team Civic Si couldn't have asked for a better result — 1st and 2nd in the E1 class and 4th and 6th overall in a field of 58 cars (Mazdaspeed Miata's best result was 25th). Mechanically, the new Civic Si's delivered as promised, aided by excellent preparation, great pit work and consistent driving. It may not have been as glamorous as an IRL or F1 win, but for those involved, the result was just as sweet."
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Double J
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sadlerau wrote:
RocketRon wrote:
Double J wrote:
What is this talk of a RWD luxury coupe and ILX coupe? Don't tease now lol.
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The talk about a production HSV-010?
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Knowing Honda, DON'T HOLD YOUR BREATH!
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Well then again even if they actually made a production HSV they would probably put it on a diet, add light weight wheels, have crazy low center of gravity, and give it a 8K redline V6. They would then proceed to apply Type R stickers and call it a JDM only affair. This way they could laugh at me from a far.
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RocketRon
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And from another "Thunderhill" article, made me smile.
"Mr. Yamada and Mr. Yoshida told me that track officials were threatening to disqualify our Honda Civic Type R because it was too loud. What? This seemed totally ridiculous because 1) our Honda Civic Type R was among the quietest cars in the field and 2) Thunderhill Raceway Park is in the middle of the nowhere eight miles away from the nearest town. Why is there a sound restriction at all? I asked a track official later, who told me, “It’s part of an agreement with our neighbors. I know it sounds a little crazy, but we had to put in some kind of limit.”
"So I was instructed to not rev the engine past the 6000-rpm mark. I obediently obeyed. However, after a few laps I was notified that the car was still too loud, so I was instructed to keep revs down to 5000 rpm. Oh, man, that’s before VTEC kicks in; I may as well be driving with the handbrake on. Then I reminded myself that the ultimate goal here was to finish the race, so I reluctantly obliged…as clunkers started passing me on the straight."
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JDMImport
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RocketRon wrote:
Miata vs Si, circa 2009:
http://www.roadandtrack.com/racing/motorsports/25-hours-of-thunderhill-trial-by-fire
"After 25 hours and 645 laps of racing, Team Civic Si couldn't have asked for a better result — 1st and 2nd in the E1 class and 4th and 6th overall in a field of 58 cars (Mazdaspeed Miata's best result was 25th). Mechanically, the new Civic Si's delivered as promised, aided by excellent preparation, great pit work and consistent driving. It may not have been as glamorous as an IRL or F1 win, but for those involved, the result was just as sweet."
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Why don't you tell the whole story....
According to the article, the Si's were totally prepared and race ready, the MX-5's were not.
"the bottoming issue clearly demonstrated that Mazdaspeed was still developing the new Miata for racing, specifically the MX-5 Cup" and "At race time, only one set of correct shocks (double-adjustable coil-over Eibachs) existed for the new Miata, and the prototype set was back at the factory being replicated for production. Thus we had to run the stock Bilsteins of the MX-5's Sport Package, which were overwhelmed by the heavy competition springing"
It also mentioned until the parts failure, the MX-5's were leading the class on a production stock suspension setup.
In any event, the Si and MX-5 are two totally different cars. What I think people are looking from from Honda is to bring back a dedicated true RWD sports car that they currently do not have to compete with the BRZ/FR-S. I would really like to see that happen.
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RocketRon
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I focused on the result. My bad. It's funny how losers always find excuses, for losing.
You're right, they are different, only one of them is equipped with a true performance engine :)
Don't take this too seriously, I'm just trying to provide some entertainment!
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JDMImport
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Tough to tell intent in a forum. Just thought you were trying to take a shot at the MX-5, which, was probably the case, but all in good fun. Gotcha ;-)
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Chocs
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Double J wrote:
sadlerau wrote:
RocketRon wrote:
Double J wrote:
What is this talk of a RWD luxury coupe and ILX coupe? Don't tease now lol.
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The talk about a production HSV-010?
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Knowing Honda, DON'T HOLD YOUR BREATH!
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Well then again even if they actually made a production HSV they would probably put it on a diet, add light weight wheels, have crazy low center of gravity, and give it a 8K redline V6. They would then proceed to apply Type R stickers and call it a JDM only affair. This way they could laugh at me from a far.
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But if I may dream, since Honda is building more and more vehicles in the US, including the NSX... Maybe, just maybe the Type-R will find its way there one day.
Then again, crash standards and stuff could still hold them back... I believe that's why the USDM CR-Z lost its rear seats.
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IntegraDC5R
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Chocs wrote:Or make a limited edition like the NSX-R GT to pass homologation requirements...
But if I may dream, since Honda is building more and more vehicles in the US, including the NSX... Maybe, just maybe the Type-R will find its way there one day.
Then again, crash standards and stuff could still hold them back... I believe that's why the USDM CR-Z lost its rear seats. |
I think the main reason the CR-Z didn't arrive with rear seats is that even "small" children in the US are like hippos compared to the average Japanese individual. The US has some fat fatties running around. Every single time I come back for vacation, I am a bit disgusted at the sheer mass of the average person.
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notyper
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As expected, 3 main things:
1) Big torque dip around 4000 rpm as shown in other dynos.
2) Excellent low end torque
3) Not much top end.
I'll try and post results and a comparo with some K-series engines tomorrow, but the basic results were 180 hp and 152 lbs-ft at the hubs. The torque is really quite excellent, better than expected. The power is about what we figured. It indicates the power rating is correct, but against so many underrated engines these days (VW GTI, K20Z3 or K24, etc.) it's really a bit weak for the class.
Torquewise, it actually produces peak torque from about 2500-3500 rpm, then dips, and then comes back up to peak at about 5000 rpm and pretty much has flat torque all the way past 6500 rpm.
That bottom end feels really nice on the street as long as you shift by 4000 rpm. It would be nice if you could get rid of the dip. It is certainly more torquey than any stock K20 below 3500 rpm. And from 4500-5500 it at least matches if not exceeds your typical K20. But from 6500 rpm on up, the later K20s (not even the 2011 ringers we've seen) pull away, making about 10+ hp more up top. Naturally, the 2011s pull away sooner and have an even bigger advantage (20+ hp).
Some of the difference is probably the slightly higher losses on a RWD car. But that said I think you have to give props to Subaru/Toyota for a solid bottom end and good peak torque, but they get dinged on the torque dip and a somewhat weak top end. Best comparison? As I suspected, I think it best compares to a K20A2 with a CAI and some extra torque.
We also did some preliminary modifications and were able to find 10 hp pretty easily. In deference to my customer who is developing parts, I won't say exactly what we did. But I do think that finding a total of 30+ hp on this engine with bolt-ons and tuning should be possible.
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sadlerau
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IntegraDC5R wrote:
Chocs wrote:Or make a limited edition like the NSX-R GT to pass homologation requirements...
But if I may dream, since Honda is building more and more vehicles in the US, including the NSX... Maybe, just maybe the Type-R will find its way there one day.
Then again, crash standards and stuff could still hold them back... I believe that's why the USDM CR-Z lost its rear seats. |
I think the main reason the CR-Z didn't arrive with rear seats is that even "small" children in the US are like hippos compared to the average Japanese individual. The US has some fat fatties running around. Every single time I come back for vacation, I am a bit disgusted at the sheer mass of the average person.
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Wheels Magazine here in Australia has one on long term loan, and the gentleman with the keys has been using the CR-Z as his daily driver, which includes dropping his kids off at school and thinks it makes a great inner city sporting vehicle for a young dad. :)
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Nick GravesX
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notyper wrote:
As expected, 3 main things:
1) Big torque dip around 4000 rpm as shown in other dynos.
2) Excellent low end torque
3) Not much top end.
I'll try and post results and a comparo with some K-series engines tomorrow, but the basic results were 180 hp and 152 lbs-ft at the hubs. The torque is really quite excellent, better than expected. The power is about what we figured. It indicates the power rating is correct, but against so many underrated engines these days (VW GTI, K20Z3 or K24, etc.) it's really a bit weak for the class.
Torquewise, it actually produces peak torque from about 2500-3500 rpm, then dips, and then comes back up to peak at about 5000 rpm and pretty much has flat torque all the way past 6500 rpm.
That bottom end feels really nice on the street as long as you shift by 4000 rpm. It would be nice if you could get rid of the dip. It is certainly more torquey than any stock K20 below 3500 rpm. And from 4500-5500 it at least matches if not exceeds your typical K20. But from 6500 rpm on up, the later K20s (not even the 2011 ringers we've seen) pull away, making about 10+ hp more up top. Naturally, the 2011s pull away sooner and have an even bigger advantage (20+ hp).
Some of the difference is probably the slightly higher losses on a RWD car. But that said I think you have to give props to Subaru/Toyota for a solid bottom end and good peak torque, but they get dinged on the torque dip and a somewhat weak top end. Best comparison? As I suspected, I think it best compares to a K20A2 with a CAI and some extra torque.
We also did some preliminary modifications and were able to find 10 hp pretty easily. In deference to my customer who is developing parts, I won't say exactly what we did. But I do think that finding a total of 30+ hp on this engine with bolt-ons and tuning should be possible.
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Thanks, Shawn.
You've probably explained to me more in a few words what a lot of reports have obfuscated.
4K RPM is probably enough for most people to feel it's 'sporty' in everyday driving. And I've read enough to suspect where the next 10 BHP might come from!
BTW; there is a rumour that the next year's model will have swirl vanes in the bottom of the inlet tracts; they will fix that tq. dip, but I don't need to tell you what they'll do to the top end. So that's just FYI, really.
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Gumbercules
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IntegraDC5R wrote:
I think the main reason the CR-Z didn't arrive with rear seats is that even "small" children in the US are like hippos compared to the average Japanese individual. The US has some fat fatties running around. Every single time I come back for vacation, I am a bit disgusted at the sheer mass of the average person.
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Haha, I feel the same way. When I was in Spain and England, you can easily see the difference in average body weight compared to US.
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LudegarH22A7
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During my test drive(s) I noticed the torque dip immediately. It seemed to be from 3500-4500 in the 6AT. It wasn't horrible but annoying nonetheless. Seemed a bit less pronounced in the 6MT... This was a big issue when tuning my K20Z3 (w/ my first header) so my sensitivity to the problem is probably greater than the typical potential buyer.
Based on my limited seat time, I only have a few issues with the car:
-Pep boys factory wheel style
-Under tired
-Torque dip on the stock tune
-No top-end means no feeling of an “unstoppable force”.
-I would be OBSESSED with finding a tuning solution the very day I brought it home… this could lead to buyer's remorse.
-Cheesy stock head unit (didn’t listen to it, just corny looking)
-2+2 arrangement is laughable, hopefully helps to reduce insurance rates… lol
-Scion nameplate drives me nutz (why in the frak did Toyota do that?) and the BRZ doesn’t look as attractive but has some features I’d prefer.
I still think it's a brilliant package and congratulate the early adopters on their choice. That being said, I'm going to wait and see how things develop.
Overall I really like the car but it doesn’t offer nearly enough to sell the Mugen (just recently paid off) -or- to purchase the 86 in addition. The recently released Kraftwerks Si charger has me salivating as well…
Lastly, I don’t buy into the perception that many have regarding this being a qausi-all new and thusly exciting formula… I think we should just give ToyoBaru credit for introducing a very well developed and invigorating product to the market.
Cheers.
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Nick GravesX
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Gumbercules wrote:
IntegraDC5R wrote:
I think the main reason the CR-Z didn't arrive with rear seats is that even "small" children in the US are like hippos compared to the average Japanese individual. The US has some fat fatties running around. Every single time I come back for vacation, I am a bit disgusted at the sheer mass of the average person.
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We're doing our best to catch up. We don't have the corn syrup lobby, but our processed food is full of sugary shit too and catching on.
Haha, I feel the same way. When I was in Spain and England, you can easily see the difference in average body weight compared to US.
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Nick GravesX
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LudegarH22A7 wrote:
During my test drive(s) I noticed the torque dip immediately. It seemed to be from 3500-4500 in the 6AT. It wasn't horrible but annoying nonetheless. Seemed a bit less pronounced in the 6MT... This was a big issue when tuning my K20Z3 (w/ my first header) so my sensitivity to the problem is probably greater than the typical potential buyer.
Based on my limited seat time, I only have a few issues with the car:
-Pep boys factory wheel style
-Under tired
-Torque dip on the stock tune
-No top-end means no feeling of an “unstoppable force”.
-I would be OBSESSED with finding a tuning solution the very day I brought it home… this could lead to buyer's remorse.
-Cheesy stock head unit (didn’t listen to it, just corny looking)
-2+2 arrangement is laughable, hopefully helps to reduce insurance rates… lol
-Scion nameplate drives me nutz (why in the frak did Toyota do that?) and the BRZ doesn’t look as attractive but has some features I’d prefer.
I still think it's a brilliant package and congratulate the early adopters on their choice. That being said, I'm going to wait and see how things develop.
Overall I really like the car but it doesn’t offer nearly enough to sell the Mugen (just recently paid off) -or- to purchase the 86 in addition. The recently released Kraftwerks Si charger has me salivating as well…
Lastly, I don’t buy into the perception that many have regarding this being a qausi-all new and thusly exciting formula… I think we should just give ToyoBaru credit for introducing a very well developed and invigorating product to the market.
Cheers.
|
Fair assessment.
It's designed to be riced, so probably you'd end up capitulating & spending $$$$$.
Or don't buy now; Tada has admitted there's a hotter one under development and unlike Honda, it's unlikely it's all pipe dreams.
Honda Pipe Dreams; engine technology for the new Prelude, S2500, CR-Z Si, new Integra, Acura GT....:D
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