danielgr wrote: There is a reason why the EPA sticker has HW, City, and Combined figures, and it's because some people may drive mostly HW, some mostly City, and some a mix of them. It doesn't require so much deep thought to figure out which one you fit in, and shouldn't be such a stretch to read the part saying: "your actual milleage will vary".
Unfortunately that is not how most people see things and Hyundai has taken advantage of exactly that.
Yea, I can't tell you how many times friends and co-workers have told me they are interested in Hyundais because "they get 40MPG", sometimes they will ask about other cars but its mostly Hyundais. So i ask them if they think that means they will average 40MPG, and sure enough they say yes so I have to explain about City/Combined/HWY. But I never say not to buy a Hyundai, just that the marketing is misleading them on MPG.
I even know one guy who owns a Civic Hybrid and his long term AVERAGE is 40MPG, he told me he wanted to trade it in for an elantra since it "also gets 40MPG". He was shocked that it was only the HWY number since, in his words, "40MPG is all I hear about".
I don't think a lawsuit about advertising HWY MPG only would win, but this lawsuit is about advertising the HWY figure without disclaiming it was the HWY figure.
This has been exactly my experience with co-workers that usually tell me when shopping for a new car, Hyundai is on the top of their list because of their high advertised mpgs. On a few occasions I had to show them the fine print so that they understand the difference between Hwy and combined.
A young lady that I used to work with went out and actually purchased an Elantra and 3 weeks later was complaining about averaging 27mpg and not 40.
Now, whose fault is that? I guess the outcome of this case will determine.
the highway mileage can so easily be gamed - just gear it as high as possible so that it can just hold the EPA speed on the flat in that gear with no wind.... meaningless. It hurts real mpg as almost all the time it has to change down a gear. Its how the chevy cruze auto I rented was - it was hardly ever in 6th (though it was super smooth changing down).
I'm just amazed this is even allowed in court. I swear the US has just become a complete and total nanny mass. People suing because they fail at comprehension is not their fault it solely belongs on somebody else for being ignorant. It is absolutely asinine. Have some person on a Fit forum going bananas and crying foul because his car doesn't get the same highway mileage as other people elsewhere in the country. A person with a Fit that lived in the same area was averaging the same, moved to another area and averages more now, but this imbecile still cries foul and Honda sucks because they lied to him and his mother about the FE and published rubbish numbers. He is averaging just over 30mpg combined with a supposed 80% highway driving, person lives in Arkansas near Little Rock. I am not certain of the terrain, have never had a reason to be in Arkansas and doubt I will ever set foot in the state. Yet the EPA numbers show I believe 27/30/33 for the Fit.
Need to add an intelligence test to the driving test (which already is a serious joke) stateside and if you fail, well that means you successfully passed in getting a bus pass or other form of public transit. Then maybe, these frivolous lawsuits wouldn't meander their way into courtrooms.
I took a Fit Sport manual home a few weeks back. On my normal 66 mile round trip commute (mostly 2 lane suburban roads) and a quick trip to take my son to school, I was amazed that the gauge ended up at over 41 mpg - way over the EPA rating for highway. I was not driving aggressively for the most part, but was not hypermiling either. I think Honda could rate the Fit at 37 highway easily. Of course, then we'd probably really have some lawsuits.
towelman wrote: I took a Fit Sport manual home a few weeks back. On my normal 66 mile round trip commute (mostly 2 lane suburban roads) and a quick trip to take my son to school, I was amazed that the gauge ended up at over 41 mpg - way over the EPA rating for highway. I was not driving aggressively for the most part, but was not hypermiling either. I think Honda could rate the Fit at 37 highway easily. Of course, then we'd probably really have some lawsuits.
Manufacturers do not decide FE ratings. The EPA driving cycle is a standard with very precise specifications. What you read in your sticker is how the car performs in such test after applying the mandatory corrective factors.
The only thing manufacturers can do is tune/design their cars to ace the test, but that's about it, and it's 100% legal. The fact is if anyone, angry people should sue the EPA for their test cannot represent everyone's driving habits/conditions. The thing is both the EPA and the judge would simply laugh, politely ask them to learn how to read. Manufacturers are a much easier target, because they tend to protect their public corporate image and sometimes settle disputes by silencing people with money. Others for sure get some kind of encouragement from competitors, or the satisfaction to tarnish a foreign maker reputation for example. That is why you see these claims going forward.
in the current example, just as with previous row on Honda, nobody cares about the ending, the damage to Hyundai reputation was made from the instant the class action got media attention. At the very least it will start damaging Hyundai's marketing effectiveness.
FiSH-Chan wrote: Unfortunately that is not how most people see things and Hyundai has taken advantage of exactly that.
Yea, I can't tell you how many times friends and co-workers have told me they are interested in Hyundais because "they get 40MPG", sometimes they will ask about other cars but its mostly Hyundais. So i ask them if they think that means they will average 40MPG, and sure enough they say yes so I have to explain about City/Combined/HWY. But I never say not to buy a Hyundai, just that the marketing is misleading them on MPG.
I even know one guy who owns a Civic Hybrid and his long term AVERAGE is 40MPG, he told me he wanted to trade it in for an elantra since it "also gets 40MPG". He was shocked that it was only the HWY number since, in his words, "40MPG is all I hear about".
I don't think a lawsuit about advertising HWY MPG only would win, but this lawsuit is about advertising the HWY figure without disclaiming it was the HWY figure.
This has been exactly my experience with co-workers that usually tell me when shopping for a new car, Hyundai is on the top of their list because of their high advertised mpgs. On a few occasions I had to show them the fine print so that they understand the difference between Hwy and combined.
A young lady that I used to work with went out and actually purchased an Elantra and 3 weeks later was complaining about averaging 27mpg and not 40.
Now, whose fault is that? I guess the outcome of this case will determine.
This guy, a car REVIEWER, also thinks this way. Watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qKLFnCH1HM&t=3m1s (the video starts at 3.00, he is talking about non-hybrid Sonata getting.. yeaaa 8mpg difference over the Civic hybrid he is reviewing LOL)
towelman wrote: I took a Fit Sport manual home a few weeks back. On my normal 66 mile round trip commute (mostly 2 lane suburban roads) and a quick trip to take my son to school, I was amazed that the gauge ended up at over 41 mpg - way over the EPA rating for highway. I was not driving aggressively for the most part, but was not hypermiling either. I think Honda could rate the Fit at 37 highway easily. Of course, then we'd probably really have some lawsuits.
Yes. I have a manual Sport as well and commute 90 miles RT, mostly highway, but including stop and go traffic, start up, acceleration, etc. and I have been consistently getting around 41 mpg calculated. Amazing.
IntegraDC5R wrote: I'm just amazed this is even allowed in court. I swear the US has just become a complete and total nanny mass. People suing because they fail at comprehension is not their fault it solely belongs on somebody else for being ignorant. It is absolutely asinine. Have some person on a Fit forum going bananas and crying foul because his car doesn't get the same highway mileage as other people elsewhere in the country. A person with a Fit that lived in the same area was averaging the same, moved to another area and averages more now, but this imbecile still cries foul and Honda sucks because they lied to him and his mother about the FE and published rubbish numbers. He is averaging just over 30mpg combined with a supposed 80% highway driving, person lives in Arkansas near Little Rock. I am not certain of the terrain, have never had a reason to be in Arkansas and doubt I will ever set foot in the state. Yet the EPA numbers show I believe 27/30/33 for the Fit.
Need to add an intelligence test to the driving test (which already is a serious joke) stateside and if you fail, well that means you successfully passed in getting a bus pass or other form of public transit. Then maybe, these frivolous lawsuits wouldn't meander their way into courtrooms.
Although I agree that Fit owner is wrong, this lawsuit is not simply about HWY MPG advertisement and that a person does not understand YMMV.
This is about how Hyundai uses sly marketing to make consumers think they will AVERAGE 40mpg. I have stated on TOV multiple times about how Hyundai had billboards and web ads that say "40MPG" but no mention that it was the HWY mpg number. That is just a flat out lie to consumers. A lie that can have financial consequences to someone shopping for low end cars.
I have always been against HWY MPG only marketing by all car makers because its meaningless to most Americans, especially those living in NYC, Boston, DC, SF, LA, etc. But Hyundai's MPG marketing is down right criminal.
In case you have not seem them. Here are some the Hyundai Elantra Commercials. The EPA numbers are included at the bottom of the screen on each commercial, but you'll notice the narrator refers to the car as the "40mpg Elantra" with big letters also printed on the screen. Not the 40mpg Hwy Elantra.
IntegraDC5R wrote: I'm just amazed this is even allowed in court. I swear the US has just become a complete and total nanny mass. People suing because they fail at comprehension is not their fault it solely belongs on somebody else for being ignorant. It is absolutely asinine. Have some person on a Fit forum going bananas and crying foul because his car doesn't get the same highway mileage as other people elsewhere in the country. A person with a Fit that lived in the same area was averaging the same, moved to another area and averages more now, but this imbecile still cries foul and Honda sucks because they lied to him and his mother about the FE and published rubbish numbers. He is averaging just over 30mpg combined with a supposed 80% highway driving, person lives in Arkansas near Little Rock. I am not certain of the terrain, have never had a reason to be in Arkansas and doubt I will ever set foot in the state. Yet the EPA numbers show I believe 27/30/33 for the Fit.
Need to add an intelligence test to the driving test (which already is a serious joke) stateside and if you fail, well that means you successfully passed in getting a bus pass or other form of public transit. Then maybe, these frivolous lawsuits wouldn't meander their way into courtrooms.
Although I agree that Fit owner is wrong, this lawsuit is not simply about HWY MPG advertisement and that a person does not understand YMMV.
This is about how Hyundai uses sly marketing to make consumers think they will AVERAGE 40mpg. I have stated on TOV multiple times about how Hyundai had billboards and web ads that say "40MPG" but no mention that it was the HWY mpg number. That is just a flat out lie to consumers. A lie that can have financial consequences to someone shopping for low end cars.
I have always been against HWY MPG only marketing by all car makers because its meaningless to most Americans, especially those living in NYC, Boston, DC, SF, LA, etc. But Hyundai's MPG marketing is down right criminal.
Just because the HWY MPG is shown proper labeling doesn't mean you have to lose your common sense and think it's the combined or CITY MPG. I mean seriously, if the combined MPG of the Elantra was 40 MPG, that would place the HWY MPG at 50 or above!
common sense varies from people to degree, someone may think it's okay to drive after some drink, but some disagree... and, people buying car as appliances wont know the detail at all. like "entire store 99% off" vs "entire store up to 99% off" I know common sense is good, but i just believe maybe this is final way to put a stop on these bad marketing tricks.
Hey, if we're talking about misleading advertising then :
Dodge Avenger gets 42MPG HWY!
chargers/challengers gets 39MPG HWY!
I laugh everytime I see these commercials because its down right dirty marketing but its legal.
(go to www.dodge.ca, NOTE the ".CA" and then google the difference between Canadian and US fuel consumption tests to discover why they can advertise like this.
The average Canadian is influenced so much by US advertising that this works like a charm.)
"The illegal advertisements caused tens of thousands of California drivers to purchase or lease 2011 and 2012 Elantras and consequently incur unexpected fuel costs," the non-profit organization added.
"I bought the car thinking I would be seeing major savings at the pump and getting over 500 miles per tank, but Hyundai fooled me. I have not saved any money on gas and have been driving the Elantra for well over a year now. It is frustrating and disappointing. I never would have bought the Elantra in the first place if I hadn't seen Hyundai's ads boasting about gas mileage," he added.
Could you be any more STUPID? Since when the f*ck does a non-hybrid regular gasoline get 40 MPG combined?
You know what, I'm not even going to continue.
My 1997 Honda Civic HX was advertised as 38/44. I would get 43-45mpg combined when I owned it. My friend, who now owns the car (sold it to him several years ago), still gets 43-45mpg at over 200K on the clock. That car is not a hybrid, its a weird-breed.
CrystalFiveMT wrote: Ford did the exact same thing with the Fiesta.
Oh yea, I remember that, they showed 40MPG like 100 times on that commercial.
The Fiesta is a great little car with excellent gas mileage, but I still find it misleading to only show the HWY rating, especially like they did in that commercial.
um, maybe you misunderstood my post, the point is that US and CAN are different in both gallon measurement and the fuel consumption test. However since all we hear in canada is about 40MPG being good its misleading for Chrysler to advertise all of their vehicles as 35MPG or better instead of the canadian 100km/l.
CrystalFiveMT wrote: Ford did the exact same thing with the Fiesta.
Oh yea, I remember that, they showed 40MPG like 100 times on that commercial.
The Fiesta is a great little car with excellent gas mileage, but I still find it misleading to only show the HWY rating, especially like they did in that commercial.
Unless you remember that the majority of automakers show the HWY # in commercials....including Honda.
If your going to make one advertise a certian way, you have to make them all advertise that way.... not pick and choose.
My 1997 Honda Civic HX was advertised as 38/44. I would get 43-45mpg combined when I owned it. My friend, who now owns the car (sold it to him several years ago), still gets 43-45mpg at over 200K on the clock. That car is not a hybrid, its a weird-breed.
Yeah there are a lot of Geo Metro's out there that do that too.
kidoairaku wrote: um, maybe you misunderstood my post, the point is that US and CAN are different in both gallon measurement and the fuel consumption test. However since all we hear in canada is about 40MPG being good its misleading for Chrysler to advertise all of their vehicles as 35MPG or better instead of the canadian 100km/l.
Chrysler's 200 Canadian TV commercial states the V6 pentastar gets 42mpg and no where in the ad does it state if this is highway or combined or anything - it's not in any small print either (it was on the PVR so I was able to check and recheck). Whole situation is farcical. The Accord V6 btw gets 43 or 44mpg highway according to official figures - but I have never seen any Honda ad claiming this.
Other than Chrysler I've never seen any Canadian arm using the favourable Canadian conversion to advertise mileage.
I've always found it funny that pretty much EVERY car gets 40MPG using the Canadian fuel tests.
What happened was you either used the 'quote' button, or added some html tags into your response but there was an error and the tags are not matched correctly. So the html code is messed up. We just continue posting until this thread goes into the next page and the next page will be back to normal.
Hopefully this post will bring the thread to the next page! I wonder what people who move to Canada from the U.S. think about the MPG when they first see it.
People move HERE from the US? Why?
oh, it must be to get away from ridiculous lawsuits because common sense doesnt exist anymore. They will realize soon that Canadians are only slightly better.
(see how I brought this tangent back to the main topic?)
I have never failed to beat canadian claimed mileage figures on a long term basis in any car I have run here. My TSX is quite comfortably beating claimed city mileage right now (30 mpg imperial) - and I have a long highway run (my first in this car) next week and will see how that checks out. The official figure is 46 mpg - have to say I doubt it'll manage that - but we'll see....Sixth is just too low for optimising this kind of trip.
Here's how the test is based..."Highway fuel consumption ratings are based on a 13-minute simulated highway course of 16 km with no stops. The top speed during the test is 97 km/h, and the average speed of the test is 77 km/h, reflecting an urban-highway driving environment".
I know I will average just under 100km/h with multiple elevation changes crossing the Rockies. Actual speed will be between 90 and 130 probably, with some help due to altitude and less wind resistance....best I got with my VR6 was 39mpg on this trip. The Accord got 45.
![[home]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/home.gif){kind=small}
![[rumors and news]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/rumors.gif){kind=small}
![[model release matrix]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/newmodelreleasematrix.gif){kind=small}
![[dealer network]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/dealernet.gif){kind=small}
![[desktop calendar]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/calendar.gif){kind=small}
![[exhaust notes]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/exhaust.gif){kind=small}
![[tov forums]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/forums.gif){kind=small}
![[links]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/links.gif){kind=small}
![[search]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/search.gif){kind=small}
![[sponsors]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/sponsors.gif){kind=small}
![[garage]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/garage.gif){kind=small}
![[login]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/login.gif){kind=small}
