dominik331
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From Carscoop Site
Hyundai is being sued in a Sacramento Superior Court for misleading consumers about the gas mileage of its 2011 and 2012 Elantra compact model.
This is the next chapter of a story that began in December of 2011 when the non-profit organization Consumer Watchdog slammed Hyundai for misleading consumers in ads for the new Elantra.
The lawsuit, which has been filed by Consumer Watchdog and the Washington, DC, law firm, Cuneo Gilbert & LaDuca, LLP, alleges that Hyundai touted "The 40 Mile Per Gallon Elantra" in high-impact television, Internet, and print advertisements, without disclosing that it was referring to highway and not combined fuel economy numbers.
According to EPA estimates, the 2012/2012 Hyundai Elantra sedan returns 29mpg (8.1lt/100km) in the city, 40mpg (5.9lt/100km) on the highway and 33mpg (7.1lt/100km) combined.
"The omitted disclosures would have informed consumers that the car does not attain 40 MPG under most driving conditions," said Consumers Watchdog in a prepared statement.
"The illegal advertisements caused tens of thousands of California drivers to purchase or lease 2011 and 2012 Elantras and consequently incur unexpected fuel costs," the non-profit organization added.
The Consumers Watchdog release on the issue also includes a statement from Louis Bird of Sacramento, California, a 2011 Elantra owner who is representing other consumers in the class-action lawsuit.
"I feel like Hyundai took advantage of me. Hyundai's advertisements about the '40 MPG' gas mileage of the Elantra instantly caught my attention," said Bird.
"I bought the car thinking I would be seeing major savings at the pump and getting over 500 miles per tank, but Hyundai fooled me. I have not saved any money on gas and have been driving the Elantra for well over a year now. It is frustrating and disappointing. I never would have bought the Elantra in the first place if I hadn't seen Hyundai's ads boasting about gas mileage," he added.
Hyundai of America is expected to release an official statement on the matter later in the day.
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DCR
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They should sue the test too.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/fe_test_schedules.shtml
The Civic Hybrid trial will pretty much guarantee this will be tossed.
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TonyEX
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Well.... the Civic Hybrid was a little different than this case. In the case of the Civic, the claim was that Honda was not delivering the numbers that the EPA test returned.
Obviously that was not the case as the EPA test specifically carries the disclaimer. Also, in all honesty the Civic Hybrid does return very high mileage numbers. This was highlighted in the trial as the woman who sued herself agreed that she drove it in the worst possible manner to maximize mileage while AHM was able to provide real world evidence of the Civic's mileage.
The issue in here is that Hyundai was selectively using the EPA test numbers in its advertising.
Of course, I'm no lawyer, but Hyundai can easily defend itself by noting that it sells its cars with the Monroney sticker right on it.
The real problem that Hyundai will have here is that it has aggressively tested it cars and no one seems to get close to the published EPA numbers... highway or road. This lawsuit may bring this information into the mainstream media and _that_ may cause Hyundai both real (as in EPA attention) and imagined (as in bad PR) harm.
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xBeastx
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dominik331 wrote:
"The illegal advertisements caused tens of thousands of California drivers to purchase or lease 2011 and 2012 Elantras and consequently incur unexpected fuel costs," the non-profit organization added.
"I bought the car thinking I would be seeing major savings at the pump and getting over 500 miles per tank, but Hyundai fooled me. I have not saved any money on gas and have been driving the Elantra for well over a year now. It is frustrating and disappointing. I never would have bought the Elantra in the first place if I hadn't seen Hyundai's ads boasting about gas mileage," he added.
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Could you be any more STUPID? Since when the f*ck does a non-hybrid regular gasoline get 40 MPG combined?
You know what, I'm not even going to continue.
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notyper
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Agreed with both you and Tony DCR. The Civic Hybrid case sets a usable precedent here and while Tony outlines valid differences, it still comes down to the fact that advertising one part of the EPA mileage does not meet the test for false advertising. Furthermore, I'll bet that each of those "misleading" Hyundai commercials also had some small fine print stating "EPA Highway".
Regardless, the claim that one was induced or misled into buying a car that has the full EPA results posted on the Monroney as you walk up to the car can only indicate complete mental incapacitance on the part of the buyer
I'm no fan of Hyundai, and I think they game the EPA tests better than most, but even I have to admit that in some 3rd party testing they've managed to just hit their claims. Of course, everyone else beat their EPA claims in the same tests, but that still doesn't have any bearing on a false advertising claim.
SC
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dampflok
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notyper wrote:
Regardless, the claim that one was induced or misled into buying a car that has the full EPA results posted on the Monroney as you walk up to the car can only indicate complete mental incapacitance on the part of the buyer |
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TonyEX
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xAbSoLuTexZeRo wrote:
dominik331 wrote:
"The illegal advertisements caused tens of thousands of California drivers to purchase or lease 2011 and 2012 Elantras and consequently incur unexpected fuel costs," the non-profit organization added.
"I bought the car thinking I would be seeing major savings at the pump and getting over 500 miles per tank, but Hyundai fooled me. I have not saved any money on gas and have been driving the Elantra for well over a year now. It is frustrating and disappointing. I never would have bought the Elantra in the first place if I hadn't seen Hyundai's ads boasting about gas mileage," he added.
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Could you be any more STUPID? Since when the f*ck does a non-hybrid regular gasoline get 40 MPG combined?
You know what, I'm not even going to continue.
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Do note that this lawsuit was initiated in my state.... California.
Yes. people are stupid and lawyers are aggressive.
'Nuff said.
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DCR
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Pretty clear to me...you knew they would cover the bases as every automaker would.
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TonyEX
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You obviously did not attend one of the many fine California public institutions of learning.
I think they teach you how not to read, how to feel good about yourself and how to dial an attorney when your belly aches.
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sadlerau
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TonyE wrote:
You obviously did not attend one of the many fine California public institutions of learning.
I think they teach you how not to read, how to feel good about yourself and how to dial an attorney when your belly aches.
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You Californians have a lot to answer for!! Your penchant for litigation over common sense is insinuating the rest of the world like a cancer :)
Reminds me of a case we had here in Western Australia.
A thief decided that he would break into an disused quarry to steel copper wire from the on-site electrical transformer. He had to break through the perimeter security fence, and a further security fence around the transformer. There were the usual signs on that second fence explaining it was a dangerous area. He succeeded admirably in reaching his goal, but was electrocuted when he attempted to start stealing the copper wires - the transformers were still active.
Luckily, [or unluckily, depending upon your point of view] he survived the electrocution, except for severe burns, and if I remember correctly he also lost a limb.
He went to court and sued the quarry owners for damages - on the grounds that it was reasonable to assume the transformer in a disused quarry should not be active, but should have been decommissioned!
He won!
Doh.
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mobis21
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All one has to do is look at every comparsion test with a Hyundai or a KIA.
Look at the recent CR-V vs. Sportage comparison at MotorTrend.
MotorTrend
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/suvs/1209_2012_2013_compact_crossover_suv_comparison/specs.html
City REAL CUV
-1.3 22 20.7 Tiguan
-1.6 23 21.4 CR-V
-1.6 23 21.4 Escape
-3.7 26 22.3 CX5
-6.2 22 15.8 Kia Sportage
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mobis21
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Consumer Reports put cars EPA claims to the test. Here are their results in what they averaged over the highway estimates reported by the manufacturers.
Car - highway estimate - ACTUAL
+11 Volkswagen Passat TDI 40 51
+8 Honda Civic LX 39 47 +8
+8 Honda CR-Z EX 37 45 +8
+7 Toyota Prius 48 55 +7
+7 Scion xD 33 40 +7
+7 Volkswagen Golf 42 49 +7
+7 Volkswagen Jetta Wagon 42 49 +7
+7 Lexus CT 200h 40 47 +7
+7 Toyota Prius V 40 47 +7
+6 Honda Civic Hybrid 44 50 +6
+6 Toyota Corolla 34 40 +6
+6 Toyota Camry 35 41 +6
+6 Ford Fiesta SE 39 45 +6
+5 Ford Focus SE 38 43 +5
+5 Toyota Camry Hybrid 38 43 +5
+5 Mazda2 Sport 35 40 +5
+5 Hyundai Accent GLS 40 45 +5
+4 Honda Civic EX 39 43 +4
+4 Fiat 500 Sport 38 42 +4
+4 Fiat 500C Pop 38 42 +4
+4 Ford Fiesta SES 38 42 +4
+4 Mini Cooper 37 41 +4
+4 BMW 335d 36 40 +4
+4 Ford Fusion 36 40 +4
+3 Volkswagen Jetta TDI 42 45 +3
+3 Mazda3 i Touring 40 43 +3
+2 Nissan Versa SV 38 40 +2
+1 Honda Insight EX 44 45 +1
0 Hyundai Santa Fe 26 26 0
0 Hyundai Tucson 28 28 0
0 Kia Forte EX Hatchback 36 36 0
0 Kia Optima LX 34 34 0
0 Kia Sorento 28 28 0
0 Hyundai Sonata Hybrid 40 40 0
-1 Hyundai Santa Fe 4-cyl 25 24 -1
-1 Hyundai Elantra 40 39 -1
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mobis21
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Cars.com
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/story/2012-03-19/subcompact-shootout-results/53569824/1
highway REAL Car
-1.6 35 33.4 Honda Fit
-2.7 35 32.3 Yaris
-3.0 38 35 Nissan Versa 1.6s
-5.0 35 30.0 Chevy Sonic
-5.3 38 32.7 Fiesta
-7.7 40 32.3 Hyundai Accent
-9.9 40 30.1 Kia Rio
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danielgr
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Personally I will never understand the point of these claims..., other than justifying the number and salary of lawyers.
If Hyundai was found cheating on the EPA homologation of their cars, or if Hyundai failed to put the mandatory EPA sticker on their showrooms, I'd say light them up. The rest though is pretty much the basis of marketing (lurrying customers into buying your products without lying), it's simply how the game works. I sure hope these guys get nothing out of it, and that they learn to use their brain the next time they spend that much money on something.
There is a reason why the EPA sticker has HW, City, and Combined figures, and it's because some people may drive mostly HW, some mostly City, and some a mix of them. It doesn't require so much deep thought to figure out which one you fit in, and shouldn't be such a stretch to read the part saying: "your actual milleage will vary".
I guess that also goes to show why the "as seen on TV" tag became so popular in advertising... some people really believe everything they see on TV ...
PS: I sure hope Honda keeps selling cars without using such marketing tricks, but at the same time I'm sure that's one of the reasons why people keep buying Hondas. For good or bad they tend to deliver close to buyers expectations, and that brings them back to the dealer, sometimes after having tried other stuff.
One of the oldest says in any Honda community is that Honda marketing sucks. Well, maybe it's not the marketing that sucks, maybe it's simply that their products tend to be better than what their marketing would suggest, and that is not a meager feature when you are used to get mislead from A to Z all the time.
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FiSH-Chan
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danielgr wrote:
There is a reason why the EPA sticker has HW, City, and Combined figures, and it's because some people may drive mostly HW, some mostly City, and some a mix of them. It doesn't require so much deep thought to figure out which one you fit in, and shouldn't be such a stretch to read the part saying: "your actual milleage will vary". |
Unfortunately that is not how most people see things and Hyundai has taken advantage of exactly that.
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CarPhreakD
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They won't win. I don't think Hyundai is misleading consumers, at least not anymore than any other automaker touting highway MPG figures.
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CivicB18
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CarPhreakD wrote:
They won't win. I don't think Hyundai is misleading consumers, at least not anymore than any other automaker touting highway MPG figures.
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I'm not so sure about that. Hyundai is now touting they are the most fuel efficient brand in the U.S. in their newer commercials.
~Patrick
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danielgr
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CivicB18 wrote:
CarPhreakD wrote:
They won't win. I don't think Hyundai is misleading consumers, at least not anymore than any other automaker touting highway MPG figures.
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I'm not so sure about that. Hyundai is now touting they are the most fuel efficient brand in the U.S. in their newer commercials.
~Patrick
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That wad an old topic here, but I believe that is actually true CAFE wise, and CAFE uses combined mpg figures so there is nothing wrong with it.
Honda used to occupy that position, but now they sell too many trucks and V6 engines, not to mention Acura's less than stellar FE figures. By comparison Hyundai-Kia groups has been smart into putting most trucks under the Kia brand, leaving the Hundai one with an impressive CAFE rating. That said, Honda is recently coming back in terms of rated combined mpg, and the new accord together with the Acura entry level couple could shift the balance once again.
So really, Hyundai is simply making the most of what they have, and at least in my world taking advantage of people's simpleness to sell is really what marketing is all about.Marketing is not supposed to be "fair", it's supposed to get as close as possible to a lie while being truth and pushing you to a purchase.
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CrystalFiveMT
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Has anyone seen a lawsuit against a domestic make yet regarding EPA mileage? I haven't. Yet I see Ford and GM boldly emphasizing 40 mpg in their TV and print ads, just like Hyundai. Honda and Hyundai seem to be the only ones targeted here.
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CarGuyLee
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CarPhreakD wrote:
They won't win. I don't think Hyundai is misleading consumers, at least not anymore than any other automaker touting highway MPG figures.
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Exactly. People are upset because they showed their HWY # only? Accord has been advertising 34 HWY with no mention of City for a while. They are doing the same as everyone else. I don't remember however if they said anywhere (fine print or not) it was HWY.
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CarGuyLee
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CrystalFiveMT wrote:
Has anyone seen a lawsuit against a domestic make yet regarding EPA mileage? I haven't. Yet I see Ford and GM boldly emphasizing 40 mpg in their TV and print ads, just like Hyundai. Honda and Hyundai seem to be the only ones targeted here.
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Calling out all automakers.......if you say 40....we say sue!
Anyone remember the Toyota commercials 5 years ago or so "40 is the new 30"....has anyone sued them?
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BelizeSixMT
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Or why stop there? Why not sue every automaker that advertises their cars' horsepower ratings, because the advertised horsepower is only a peak output at a specific rpm. Yet I don't see disclaimers in fine print saying that.
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xBeastx
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BelizeSixMT wrote:
Or why stop there? Why not sue every automaker that advertises their cars' horsepower ratings, because the advertised horsepower is only a peak output at a specific rpm. Yet I don't see disclaimers in fine print saying that.
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Good point!
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Gumbercules
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BelizeSixMT wrote:
Or why stop there? Why not sue every automaker that advertises their cars' horsepower ratings, because the advertised horsepower is only a peak output at a specific rpm. Yet I don't see disclaimers in fine print saying that.
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The difference is that for the average consumer, MPG is related to a significant running cost and the higher an MPG rating the lower your cost post-purchase. HP ratings dont mean anything to your maintenance and running costs.
I agree that HP ratings are rather meaningless since they are just a peak # at an RPM that average driving does not need, but HP #'s (generally) do not translate to any running costs.
And the premise of this lawsuit is something that I have been vocal about since it started: 1) because ONLY advertising HWY MPG has misled people into thinking that non-hybrids "get" 40mpg, as in they average 40mpg, and GM and Hyundai were the pioneers of this marketing.
And, more importantly 2) I have seen many ads from Hyundai that say "The 40MPG Elantra" or the "The 35MPG Sonata" without any mention or fine print that it is HWY only. This is just a blatant lie to consumers trying to figure out their monthly/annual fuel expense. Especially when the sales guy is barking "40MPG" to every customer in the showroom, they are not saying "40 is just HWY, you will really avg around 33MPG".
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TonyEX
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CrystalFiveMT wrote:
Has anyone seen a lawsuit against a domestic make yet regarding EPA mileage? I haven't. Yet I see Ford and GM boldly emphasizing 40 mpg in their TV and print ads, just like Hyundai. Honda and Hyundai seem to be the only ones targeted here.
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That's because Ford and Chevy are foreign cars in California.
Other states are not so... ahem... "aggressive" in their lawyering. Meaning that some sense of decency exists in their State Bars -so long as Gloria Allred is not around, that is.
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Gumbercules
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FiSH-Chan wrote:
danielgr wrote:
There is a reason why the EPA sticker has HW, City, and Combined figures, and it's because some people may drive mostly HW, some mostly City, and some a mix of them. It doesn't require so much deep thought to figure out which one you fit in, and shouldn't be such a stretch to read the part saying: "your actual milleage will vary". |
Unfortunately that is not how most people see things and Hyundai has taken advantage of exactly that.
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Yea, I can't tell you how many times friends and co-workers have told me they are interested in Hyundais because "they get 40MPG", sometimes they will ask about other cars but its mostly Hyundais. So i ask them if they think that means they will average 40MPG, and sure enough they say yes so I have to explain about City/Combined/HWY. But I never say not to buy a Hyundai, just that the marketing is misleading them on MPG.
I even know one guy who owns a Civic Hybrid and his long term AVERAGE is 40MPG, he told me he wanted to trade it in for an elantra since it "also gets 40MPG". He was shocked that it was only the HWY number since, in his words, "40MPG is all I hear about".
I don't think a lawsuit about advertising HWY MPG only would win, but this lawsuit is about advertising the HWY figure without disclaiming it was the HWY figure.
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TonyEX
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Gumbercules wrote:
...
And, more importantly 2) I have seen many ads from Hyundai that say "The 40MPG Elantra" or the "The 35MPG Sonata" without any mention or fine print that it is HWY only. This is just a blatant lie to consumers trying to figure out their monthly/annual fuel expense. Especially when the sales guy is barking "40MPG" to every customer in the showroom, they are not saying "40 is just HWY, you will really avg around 33MPG".
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As I wrote earlier... there are no laws about which mileage you should advertise... so long as the manufacturer clearly provides the Monrony sticker on the car. I don't even know if there are any rules about what number they can put on their brochures -although I'd expect most manufactures to provide those numbers even if in fine print.
Of course, I can see now that IN CALIFORNIA we will soon have MORE REGULATIONS on how a car can be marketed to PROTECT CONSUMERS....
(yeah, like I need that like a hole in my head...).
Just watch for Rep. Waxman to call for similar federal regulations...
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TonyEX
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Gumbercules wrote:
FiSH-Chan wrote:
danielgr wrote:
There is a reason why the EPA sticker has HW, City, and Combined figures, and it's because some people may drive mostly HW, some mostly City, and some a mix of them. It doesn't require so much deep thought to figure out which one you fit in, and shouldn't be such a stretch to read the part saying: "your actual milleage will vary". |
Unfortunately that is not how most people see things and Hyundai has taken advantage of exactly that.
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Yea, I can't tell you how many times friends and co-workers have told me they are interested in Hyundais because "they get 40MPG", sometimes they will ask about other cars but its mostly Hyundais. So i ask them if they think that means they will average 40MPG, and sure enough they say yes so I have to explain about City/Combined/HWY. But I never say not to buy a Hyundai, just that the marketing is misleading them on MPG.
I even know one guy who owns a Civic Hybrid and his long term AVERAGE is 40MPG, he told me he wanted to trade it in for an elantra since it "also gets 40MPG". He was shocked that it was only the HWY number since, in his words, "40MPG is all I hear about".
I don't think a lawsuit about advertising HWY MPG only would win, but this lawsuit is about advertising the HWY figure without disclaiming it was the HWY figure.
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I think this is the problem
http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/93408-hyundai-accent-review-40-mpg-with-a-petrol-engine-but-falls-short-on-tech?print
See?
Note how this article quotes the 40MPG number quite a few times before it qualifies it as "Highway". It's title even ignores that tid bit.
The issue with only quoting the highway number is that it gets embedded into the feeble minds of the "armchair" media (*) and then it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.
I honestly think that the end result of this will be additional regulations on marketing.
(*) You know the kind... they take the numbers, info and pictures directly from a manufacturer and make up a review without having ever driven the car.
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A.W.E.S.O.M. - O
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I hope what comes out if this is that you can only advertise the EPA 'combined' number. Several manufacturers are gaming the EPA on their highway loop to look artificially efficient.
HWY = Pie in the Sky 95% of the time.
Just make them advertise the combined number.
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MarkR
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TonyE wrote:
Gumbercules wrote:
FiSH-Chan wrote:
danielgr wrote:
There is a reason why the EPA sticker has HW, City, and Combined figures, and it's because some people may drive mostly HW, some mostly City, and some a mix of them. It doesn't require so much deep thought to figure out which one you fit in, and shouldn't be such a stretch to read the part saying: "your actual milleage will vary". |
Unfortunately that is not how most people see things and Hyundai has taken advantage of exactly that.
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Yea, I can't tell you how many times friends and co-workers have told me they are interested in Hyundais because "they get 40MPG", sometimes they will ask about other cars but its mostly Hyundais. So i ask them if they think that means they will average 40MPG, and sure enough they say yes so I have to explain about City/Combined/HWY. But I never say not to buy a Hyundai, just that the marketing is misleading them on MPG.
I even know one guy who owns a Civic Hybrid and his long term AVERAGE is 40MPG, he told me he wanted to trade it in for an elantra since it "also gets 40MPG". He was shocked that it was only the HWY number since, in his words, "40MPG is all I hear about".
I don't think a lawsuit about advertising HWY MPG only would win, but this lawsuit is about advertising the HWY figure without disclaiming it was the HWY figure.
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I think this is the problem
http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/93408-hyundai-accent-review-40-mpg-with-a-petrol-engine-but-falls-short-on-tech?print
See?
Note how this article quotes the 40MPG number quite a few times before it qualifies it as "Highway". It's title even ignores that tid bit.
The issue with only quoting the highway number is that it gets embedded into the feeble minds of the "armchair" media (*) and then it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.
I honestly think that the end result of this will be additional regulations on marketing.
(*) You know the kind... they take the numbers, info and pictures directly from a manufacturer and make up a review without having ever driven the car.
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I think this it's the way it's been in Europe for a long time.
I remember year 1999 when I had a Audi A3 Turbo, it was quoted as efficient but when going on roadtrips/vacation 110km/h (65-70?) it was thirsty as hell. I even sent it for service as I thought it was something wrong.
A while later I traded it for a Accord Type-R and with that amazing super sweet machinery I could do 120km/h with less consumption but more power :)
The 2009 Audi A4 consumption (turbo) was quoted to be achieved at 76km/h on flat road with no wind. Whatta F? so when you do 65mph (100km/h+) it's guzzling gas????? it's just false advertising.
I think MPG should be restricted to highway=65mph
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