JP
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... for a 35k toy...
http://www.insideline.com/acura/ilx/2013/2013-acura-ilx-hybrid-track-test.html
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superchg2
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From Insideline
" 2013 Acura ILX Hybrid with Technology Package
Price: $35,295 (price as tested)
Test Results:
Acceleration
0-60 (sec): 10.4
1/4-Mile (sec @ mph): 17.6 @ 77.9
Braking
30-0 (ft): 31
60-0 (ft): 129
Handling
Slalom (mph): 63.6 (61.0 w/TC off)
Skid Pad Lateral Acceleration (g): 0.81 (0.77 w/TC on)
The 2013 Acura ILX Hybrid returns 39 city/38 highway mpg and a combined EPA rating of 38 mpg."
The Camry Hybrid pretty much outdoes the ILX in every category, for about the same price.
from Motor trend
"2012 Toyota Camry Hybrid XLE
PRICE AS TESTED $33,580
0-60 MPH 7.2 sec
QUARTER MILE 15.5 sec @ 91.5 mph
BRAKING, 60-0 MPH 128 ft
LATERAL ACCELERATION 0.78 g (avg)
MT FIGURE EIGHT 28.0 sec @ 0.61 g (avg)
EPA CITY/HWY FUEL ECON 41 / 38 mpg"
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superchg2
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From Insideline
" 2013 Acura ILX Hybrid with Technology Package
Price: $35,295 (price as tested)
Test Results:
Acceleration
0-60 (sec): 10.4
1/4-Mile (sec @ mph): 17.6 @ 77.9
Braking
30-0 (ft): 31
60-0 (ft): 129
Handling
Slalom (mph): 63.6 (61.0 w/TC off)
Skid Pad Lateral Acceleration (g): 0.81 (0.77 w/TC on)
The 2013 Acura ILX Hybrid returns 39 city/38 highway mpg and a combined EPA rating of 38 mpg."
The Camry Hybrid pretty much outdoes the ILX in almost every category, for about the same price.
from Motor trend
"2012 Toyota Camry Hybrid XLE
PRICE AS TESTED $33,580
0-60 MPH 7.2 sec
QUARTER MILE 15.5 sec @ 91.5 mph
BRAKING, 60-0 MPH 128 ft
LATERAL ACCELERATION 0.78 g (avg)
MT FIGURE EIGHT 28.0 sec @ 0.61 g (avg)
EPA CITY/HWY FUEL ECON 41 / 38 mpg"
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DCR
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Wow. Have to admit, that Camry is putting down some pretty damn good numbers for a hybrid that size.
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FiSH-Chan
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The hybrid engine is fine as a Civic but as an Acura that is just not suitable to my mind and i'm sure many will agree. I don't even understand Acura, but I thought at least it has to be very different. I am one that thought it will come wiith a CR-Z engine. But it seems like that still make 'nicer Hondas' and this time with no engine difference. At least if they fit a CR-Z engine in it would sound nicer, have that sport button (does the ILX hybrid have a sport buttong), look better in specs (more HP) and whatever engine upgrade for the CR-Z if any will suitable for the ILX too.
The MPG will not look as good, but am I wrong in that it would be expected with Acura over Honda?
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ldvknight
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I would think if we still had a hybrid Accord it would also be around this price.
Some other Hybrids, note these are just base prices off the website, not As-Tested Prices as previously discussed.
The Lincoln MKZ hybrid
Base Price = $34,755
2.5 I4 with 191 hp net
35/41/39 MPG
Lexus CT hybrid
Base Price = $31,750
1.8 I4 with 134 hp net
43/40/42 MPG
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siegen
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JP wrote:
... for a 35k toy...
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If you buy the ILX hybrid as a toy, I think you're doing it wrong.
superchg2 wrote:
The Camry Hybrid pretty much outdoes the ILX in every category, for about the same price.
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When the Accord hybrid comes out, it will outdo the ILX hybrid just as the regular Accord outdoes the regular ILX right now. And while we're at it, the Accord outdoes the beloved TSX in much the same way.
So why doesn't everyone just buy Accords and Camrys?
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Grace141
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siegen wrote:
So why doesn't everyone just buy Accords and Camrys?
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I wonder about the comparison with a little time added. What would happen if the Camry and ILX hybrids ran ten laps of Laguna Seca together at speed. Sure, it can light up the front tire(s) but if the Camry Hybrid is now seen as a sporty sedan shouldn't it be able to maintain enough electrical reserves to provide that power for an extended time?
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Hondarulez
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superchg2 wrote:
From Insideline
" 2013 Acura ILX Hybrid with Technology Package
Price: $35,295 (price as tested)
Test Results:
Acceleration
0-60 (sec): 10.4
1/4-Mile (sec @ mph): 17.6 @ 77.9
Braking
30-0 (ft): 31
60-0 (ft): 129
Handling
Slalom (mph): 63.6 (61.0 w/TC off)
Skid Pad Lateral Acceleration (g): 0.81 (0.77 w/TC on)
The 2013 Acura ILX Hybrid returns 39 city/38 highway mpg and a combined EPA rating of 38 mpg."
The Camry Hybrid pretty much outdoes the ILX in almost every category, for about the same price.
from Motor trend
"2012 Toyota Camry Hybrid XLE
PRICE AS TESTED $33,580
0-60 MPH 7.2 sec
QUARTER MILE 15.5 sec @ 91.5 mph
BRAKING, 60-0 MPH 128 ft
LATERAL ACCELERATION 0.78 g (avg)
MT FIGURE EIGHT 28.0 sec @ 0.61 g (avg)
EPA CITY/HWY FUEL ECON 41 / 38 mpg"
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This reminds me of the previous Accord hybrid:
From C/D: http://media.caranddriver.com/files/honda-accord-hybrid2005-honda-accord-hybrid-specs.pdf
PRICE AS TESTED $31,990
0-60 MPH 6.7 sec
QUARTER MILE 15.2 sec @ 93 mph
BRAKING, 70-0 MPH 193 ft
LATERAL ACCELERATION 0.78 g (avg)
EPA CITY/HWY FUEL ECON 30 / 37 mpg
Put that same powertrain in the ILX hybrid and we've got an even faster hybrid as the ILX is lighter.
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98EX4cyl
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Hondarulez wrote:
superchg2 wrote:
From Insideline
" 2013 Acura ILX Hybrid with Technology Package
Price: $35,295 (price as tested)
Test Results:
Acceleration
0-60 (sec): 10.4
1/4-Mile (sec @ mph): 17.6 @ 77.9
Braking
30-0 (ft): 31
60-0 (ft): 129
Handling
Slalom (mph): 63.6 (61.0 w/TC off)
Skid Pad Lateral Acceleration (g): 0.81 (0.77 w/TC on)
The 2013 Acura ILX Hybrid returns 39 city/38 highway mpg and a combined EPA rating of 38 mpg."
The Camry Hybrid pretty much outdoes the ILX in almost every category, for about the same price.
from Motor trend
"2012 Toyota Camry Hybrid XLE
PRICE AS TESTED $33,580
0-60 MPH 7.2 sec
QUARTER MILE 15.5 sec @ 91.5 mph
BRAKING, 60-0 MPH 128 ft
LATERAL ACCELERATION 0.78 g (avg)
MT FIGURE EIGHT 28.0 sec @ 0.61 g (avg)
EPA CITY/HWY FUEL ECON 41 / 38 mpg"
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This reminds me of the previous Accord hybrid:
From C/D: http://media.caranddriver.com/files/honda-accord-hybrid2005-honda-accord-hybrid-specs.pdf
PRICE AS TESTED $31,990
0-60 MPH 6.7 sec
QUARTER MILE 15.2 sec @ 93 mph
BRAKING, 70-0 MPH 193 ft
LATERAL ACCELERATION 0.78 g (avg)
EPA CITY/HWY FUEL ECON 30 / 37 mpg
Put that same powertrain in the ILX hybrid and we've got an even faster hybrid as the ILX is lighter.
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The canceled Accord Hybrid used a V6 plus IMA which would not fit in the Civic-based ILX.
Additionally, the Accord hybrid rarely achieved its EPA gas mileage numbers, which were also based on pre-2008 EPA mileage testing.
Let's hope the new Accord plug-in hybrid with ED blows us all way and will compatible with the ILX's chassis.
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superchg2
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98EX4cyl wrote:
Hondarulez wrote:
superchg2 wrote:
From Insideline
" 2013 Acura ILX Hybrid with Technology Package
Price: $35,295 (price as tested)
Test Results:
Acceleration
0-60 (sec): 10.4
1/4-Mile (sec @ mph): 17.6 @ 77.9
Braking
30-0 (ft): 31
60-0 (ft): 129
Handling
Slalom (mph): 63.6 (61.0 w/TC off)
Skid Pad Lateral Acceleration (g): 0.81 (0.77 w/TC on)
The 2013 Acura ILX Hybrid returns 39 city/38 highway mpg and a combined EPA rating of 38 mpg."
The Camry Hybrid pretty much outdoes the ILX in almost every category, for about the same price.
from Motor trend
"2012 Toyota Camry Hybrid XLE
PRICE AS TESTED $33,580
0-60 MPH 7.2 sec
QUARTER MILE 15.5 sec @ 91.5 mph
BRAKING, 60-0 MPH 128 ft
LATERAL ACCELERATION 0.78 g (avg)
MT FIGURE EIGHT 28.0 sec @ 0.61 g (avg)
EPA CITY/HWY FUEL ECON 41 / 38 mpg"
|
This reminds me of the previous Accord hybrid:
From C/D: http://media.caranddriver.com/files/honda-accord-hybrid2005-honda-accord-hybrid-specs.pdf
PRICE AS TESTED $31,990
0-60 MPH 6.7 sec
QUARTER MILE 15.2 sec @ 93 mph
BRAKING, 70-0 MPH 193 ft
LATERAL ACCELERATION 0.78 g (avg)
EPA CITY/HWY FUEL ECON 30 / 37 mpg
Put that same powertrain in the ILX hybrid and we've got an even faster hybrid as the ILX is lighter.
|
The canceled Accord Hybrid used a V6 plus IMA which would not fit in the Civic-based ILX.
Additionally, the Accord hybrid rarely achieved its EPA gas mileage numbers, which were also based on pre-2008 EPA mileage testing.
Let's hope the new Accord plug-in hybrid with ED blows us all way and will compatible with the ILX's chassis.
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The Camry Hybrid uses a 2.5 liter I-4.
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Waldo
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siegen wrote:
So why doesn't everyone just buy Accords and Camrys?
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Very simple. Many (most) people just don't give a cr*p about those numbers.
They might buy an ILX because it offers good looks, some luxury, a little exclusivity, competence, and the value a Honda built product sold through an Acura dealer adds.
It is not a fanboy toy. If that's what you want, shop elsewhere. I'm sure Acura was not expecting you to buy one.
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THX17201
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Waldo wrote:
I'm sure Acura was not expecting you to buy one.
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No but they are expecting 40,000 per year to buy an ILX and that seems like a tall task...
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siegen
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Waldo wrote:
siegen wrote:
So why doesn't everyone just buy Accords and Camrys?
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Very simple. Many (most) people just don't give a cr*p about those numbers.
They might buy an ILX because it offers good looks, some luxury, a little exclusivity, competence, and the value a Honda built product sold through an Acura dealer adds.
It is not a fanboy toy. If that's what you want, shop elsewhere. I'm sure Acura was not expecting you to buy one
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That question was more of a rhetorical question posed to those that like to throw up price comparisons between mainstream vehicles and luxury/premium vehicles, in an attempt to make the luxury/premium vehicle seem pointless. Your point is exactly what I was getting at but just didn't feel like spelling out.
Perhaps my wording made it sound like I was being anti-ILX. In fact, I like the ILX (2.4, not the hybrid). The only thing I dislike about it is the lack of HomeLink and ELS on the 2.4L, and no AWD.
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owequitit
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Waldo wrote:
siegen wrote:
So why doesn't everyone just buy Accords and Camrys?
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Very simple. Many (most) people just don't give a cr*p about those numbers.
They might buy an ILX because it offers good looks, some luxury, a little exclusivity, competence, and the value a Honda built product sold through an Acura dealer adds.
It is not a fanboy toy. If that's what you want, shop elsewhere. I'm sure Acura was not expecting you to buy one.
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Apparently, based on sales, it isn't a toy for anybody. Probably should have stuck with the "fanboys." At least they actually buy the product...
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owequitit
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Grace141 wrote:
siegen wrote:
So why doesn't everyone just buy Accords and Camrys?
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I wonder about the comparison with a little time added. What would happen if the Camry and ILX hybrids ran ten laps of Laguna Seca together at speed. Sure, it can light up the front tire(s) but if the Camry Hybrid is now seen as a sporty sedan shouldn't it be able to maintain enough electrical reserves to provide that power for an extended time?
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So now we are billing the ILX hybrid as a "sporty" hyrbid, when we have been repeatedly saying that there is nothing wrong with the ILX 2.4 because it wasn't intended for enthusiasts? How ironic, because last time I checked that only time 10 laps of a race course would be a valid comparison is among enthusiasts...
Therefore, since we have established that the ILX isn't for "enthusiasts," it is safe to extend that logic to the hybrid; in which case, lap results are invalid.
Besides, for its intended mission (urban commuting), the Camry will blow the ILX out of the water in ALL metrics that matter to the commuter. Also, IIRC, the Camry has a bigger battery so it will probably last at least as long as the ILX hybrid in any driving circumstance. When the batteries go dead, the Camry is probably STILL faster than the ILX on full charge...
No, it is just that the ILX hybrid sucks, pretty much like the rest of the car, which missed a homerun by a few detail failures.
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Waldo
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THX17201 wrote:
Waldo wrote:
I'm sure Acura was not expecting you to buy one.
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No but they are expecting 40,000 per year to buy an ILX and that seems like a tall task...
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Maybe, but being a Gloomy Gus about sales during the first couple of months makes no sense. The dealers have not had much inventory, and there was not much of a marketing effort in place. Slow, cautious, ramp up is normal. It helps quality control catch mistakes.
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THX17201
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Waldo wrote:
THX17201 wrote:
Waldo wrote:
I'm sure Acura was not expecting you to buy one.
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No but they are expecting 40,000 per year to buy an ILX and that seems like a tall task...
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Slow, cautious, ramp up is normal. It helps quality control catch mistakes.
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Then why doesn't the CRV or RDX display those same traits? When Honda/Acura have a hit, it is usually evident right away IMO.
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Waldo
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siegen wrote:
That question was more of a rhetorical question posed to those that like to throw up price comparisons between mainstream vehicles and luxury/premium vehicles, in an attempt to make the luxury/premium vehicle seem pointless. Your point is exactly what I was getting at but just didn't feel like spelling out.
Perhaps my wording made it sound like I was being anti-ILX. In fact, I like the ILX (2.4, not the hybrid). The only thing I dislike about it is the lack of HomeLink and ELS on the 2.4L, and no AWD.
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I was operating in 3-cyl "ECO" mode, and missed your subtlety!
It is hard to defend Acura's stinginess with cheap gadgets like HomeLink in a luxury line. At the least, it should be available as a easily installed accessory. I suppose some wonk in product planning figured that model would not be purchased by suburban home dwellers, and there was no need for HomeLink. Who knows?
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Grace141
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owequitit wrote:
Grace141 wrote:
siegen wrote:
So why doesn't everyone just buy Accords and Camrys?
|
I wonder about the comparison with a little time added. What would happen if the Camry and ILX hybrids ran ten laps of Laguna Seca together at speed. Sure, it can light up the front tire(s) but if the Camry Hybrid is now seen as a sporty sedan shouldn't it be able to maintain enough electrical reserves to provide that power for an extended time?
|
So now we are billing the ILX hybrid as a "sporty" hyrbid, when we have been repeatedly saying that there is nothing wrong with the ILX 2.4 because it wasn't intended for enthusiasts? How ironic, because last time I checked that only time 10 laps of a race course would be a valid comparison is among enthusiasts...
Therefore, since we have established that the ILX isn't for "enthusiasts," it is safe to extend that logic to the hybrid; in which case, lap results are invalid.
Besides, for its intended mission (urban commuting), the Camry will blow the ILX out of the water in ALL metrics that matter to the commuter. Also, IIRC, the Camry has a bigger battery so it will probably last at least as long as the ILX hybrid in any driving circumstance. When the batteries go dead, the Camry is probably STILL faster than the ILX on full charge...
No, it is just that the ILX hybrid sucks, pretty much like the rest of the car, which missed a homerun by a few detail failures.
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Supercharge2 posted numbers for the Camry Hybrid for comparison. My point is that at this stage in my life I wouldn't purchase any Camry so the current Camry Hybrid's performance numbers neither give it any value as a sporty car nor any relevance here other than just being interesting. I guess the question would now be who here has driven both the ILX Hybrid and the Camy Hybrid because I really doubt they're similar in driving feel.
I don't see the point of the ILX Hybrid any more than the next person here at TOV but that doesn't mean Honda shouldn't offer it for sale. Honda offers other products which for me make less sense than the ILX Hybrid such as four varieties of Shadow motorcycles yet no one on TOV complains. We have no proof that Honda plans to crank out ILX Hybrids by the scores leaving several dozens stacking up on each dealer's lot. Who knows. The idea of an update someday installing a smaller version of the e-SH-AWD system with the two extra motors driving the rear wheels is interesting but I'm not betting on it.
Yes, the ILX Hybrid may "suck" for folks originally expecting it to be a 3-series at Acura prices. I'm sure the Acura folks realize few here will buy one. If Acura can get 3% to 5% of the greenies who buy Priuses to test drive the ILX Hybrid they'll do okay. I've seen some of the ILX advertising now and I actually think they've found a market for it - young professional types who know little about enthusiast cars but are attracted to cars with styling which stands out a little but not too much. Yes, it's a very small market segment.
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superchg2
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Grace141 wrote:
Supercharge2 posted numbers for the Camry Hybrid for comparison. My point is that at this stage in my life I wouldn't purchase any Camry so the current Camry Hybrid's performance numbers neither give it any value as a sporty car nor any relevance here other than just being interesting. I guess the question would now be who here has driven both the ILX Hybrid and the Camy Hybrid because I really doubt they're similar in driving feel.
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The reason I posted the Camry's stats. is to show how far some hybrid's have come. This same power train will also be found in the upcoming Lexus ES300H.
By copying and pasting the Civic's IMA into the pricier, 150 lb. heavier ILX hybrid, I think Acura took the easy way out, and I'm afraid sales of this new model will reflect the lack of effort.
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THX17201
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|
superchg2 wrote:
By copying and pasting the Civic's IMA into the pricier, 150 lb. heavier ILX hybrid, I think Acura took the easy way out, and I'm afraid sales of this new model will reflect the lack of effort.
|
Agree 100%!
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Hondarulez
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|
98EX4cyl wrote:
Hondarulez wrote:
superchg2 wrote:
From Insideline
" 2013 Acura ILX Hybrid with Technology Package
Price: $35,295 (price as tested)
Test Results:
Acceleration
0-60 (sec): 10.4
1/4-Mile (sec @ mph): 17.6 @ 77.9
Braking
30-0 (ft): 31
60-0 (ft): 129
Handling
Slalom (mph): 63.6 (61.0 w/TC off)
Skid Pad Lateral Acceleration (g): 0.81 (0.77 w/TC on)
The 2013 Acura ILX Hybrid returns 39 city/38 highway mpg and a combined EPA rating of 38 mpg."
The Camry Hybrid pretty much outdoes the ILX in almost every category, for about the same price.
from Motor trend
"2012 Toyota Camry Hybrid XLE
PRICE AS TESTED $33,580
0-60 MPH 7.2 sec
QUARTER MILE 15.5 sec @ 91.5 mph
BRAKING, 60-0 MPH 128 ft
LATERAL ACCELERATION 0.78 g (avg)
MT FIGURE EIGHT 28.0 sec @ 0.61 g (avg)
EPA CITY/HWY FUEL ECON 41 / 38 mpg"
|
This reminds me of the previous Accord hybrid:
From C/D: http://media.caranddriver.com/files/honda-accord-hybrid2005-honda-accord-hybrid-specs.pdf
PRICE AS TESTED $31,990
0-60 MPH 6.7 sec
QUARTER MILE 15.2 sec @ 93 mph
BRAKING, 70-0 MPH 193 ft
LATERAL ACCELERATION 0.78 g (avg)
EPA CITY/HWY FUEL ECON 30 / 37 mpg
Put that same powertrain in the ILX hybrid and we've got an even faster hybrid as the ILX is lighter.
|
The canceled Accord Hybrid used a V6 plus IMA which would not fit in the Civic-based ILX.
Additionally, the Accord hybrid rarely achieved its EPA gas mileage numbers, which were also based on pre-2008 EPA mileage testing.
Let's hope the new Accord plug-in hybrid with ED blows us all way and will compatible with the ILX's chassis.
|
The IMA system as we all know is very compact and lightweight. People have been swapping the J series into the EK civic. The ILX is certainly a bigger car than an EK Civic. Remember, the J series is one of the most compact V6's in the market. I remember reading somewhere that it's actually not much bigger than a K series. It's a matter of whether Honda wants to put that engine in or not.
On fuelly.com, the average for a hybrid Accord in the real world is around 28-29mpg. I think that's still not bad for a car with over 250hp that is around 3500lb. Perhaps that same engine, with newer tweaks, in a lighter body, should get over 30mpg in the real world. This is all with the simple IMA that doesn't turn a car into an appliance.
With that said, I also look forward to the new hybrid system. Hopefully the system doesn't turn the car into an appliance like the HSD equipped Toyotas!
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atomiclightbulb
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THX17201 wrote:
superchg2 wrote:
By copying and pasting the Civic's IMA into the pricier, 150 lb. heavier ILX hybrid, I think Acura took the easy way out, and I'm afraid sales of this new model will reflect the lack of effort.
|
Agree 100%!
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That's what I've been saying all along.
The title of the thread is wrong IMO. It should be "Acura might have to give these away".
The ILX is too good of a vehicle to saddle with a sub-par powertrain.
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THX17201
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atomiclightbulb wrote:
THX17201 wrote:
superchg2 wrote:
By copying and pasting the Civic's IMA into the pricier, 150 lb. heavier ILX hybrid, I think Acura took the easy way out, and I'm afraid sales of this new model will reflect the lack of effort.
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Agree 100%!
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That's what I've been saying all along.
The title of the thread is wrong IMO. It should be "Acura might have to give these away".
The ILX is too good of a vehicle to saddle with a sub-par powertrain.
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It certainly has the potential with a good exterior and interior. But the motor, suspension and lack of LSD need to be addressed...
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