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FiSH-Chan
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jero wrote:
Why does the exchange rate excuse for low CR-Z sales only apply to the CR-Z?
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CR-Zs are made in Japan only. The exchange rate will definitely affect it big time. Fits are made in China and can be found assembled elsewhere.
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jero
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However, if the demand were there wouldn't this be reflected in other ways?
For example, if the supply really is being held back due to the exchange rate, thus assuming excess demand... wouldn't we see this in customers placing pre-orders before they hit the lot, minimum days on the lot for those that are not already pre-sold, as well as inflated used CR-Z values?
There are plenty of dealers on here, what is your take? Are customers ordering CR-Zs due to lack of supply on the lot? Are the ones you do get flying off the lot? Are you selling used ones quickly as well for inflated values?
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sennaFAN
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I wrote quite a long review of a CRZ GT that I owned about a year ago which was damning and with praise in relatively equal measure.
The conclusion was that a hybrid drive should be an OPTION in a range that should include either the 1.6 or 2.2 diesel plus maybe a 1.8 naturally aspirated or more hopefully but less likely the rumoured 1.6 turbo.
The 1.8 would provide in real world driving all but identical mpg but a more responsive drive at all times whereas the diesels would be even more fuel efficient and effortless to drive.
Well as timing goes this is pretty good because I took delivery of another white CRZ GT this time with the full Mugen bodykit plus Mugen alloys.
The car attracts attention like very few others see ad
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Honda-CR-Z-1-5-IMA-GT-Hybrid-Mugen-bodykit-sat-nav-/360471852052?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item53edcbf414
( sorry dont know how to post pics !! )
The problem with the car as I have found again after just a week of driving ( please Daniel feel free to comment ) is that to achieve even 45mpg I have to drive with real restraint. The engine seems much more willing than my first one, although that was barely run in, and the gearchange is truly lovely, again my first was quite baulky but possibly because of very low mileage.
The fact is that this car NEEDS Honda to show some balls and to give it an engine range, something I have tried to champion here for along time.
The sales would be hell of a lot different if it had a 150-200 hp version or versions. It simply doesnt make sense on longer trips. The car is great for the urban crawl and 20 mile commutes but try, as I did yesterday, and stray much further and then the shortcomings become all too clear.
It is way too loud at motorway speeds, not the engine or wind but awful tyre noise on anything but the smoothest tarmac, plus again too much suspension noise from any bump or ridge.
The new euro civic could easily donate the new fluid bushes to refine the suspension, and a better compound of tyre ( the bridgestones are notorious for sensitivity to road surfaces ).
I genuinely believe Honda have a true uncut gem in the CRZ but they HAVE to finish the product and offer an engine choice to make it the success it DESERVES.
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superchg2
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sennaFAN, since the CR-Z has not had any sort of power train upgrades, I was surprised that you have purchased another, especially since you have mentioned some of the same shortcomings in the new one that the recently departed one had.
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Nick GravesX
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Actually, that's a good point SF!
I have the same problem with the Jizz; I was running a new one in & got over 40 mpg. Driven in my usual style, it's low 30s and I get 24 out of the S2000! 22 out of the 'Lude, too.
I'm sure I'd probably get spectacularly bad results with a new 1,600 turbo unit, too. F=MA after all and these buggers are heavy & have resistive tyres.
My understanding is that it'd have to be a new engine for a super-CR-Z. The K won't easily fit. That could explain the delay in launching a version many might actually want to buy.
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notyper
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The K actually fits ok (we've actually tuned several already and there is a surprisingy amount of room under the hood to mess around), but it probably wouldn't pass Honda's standards for ground clearance without a hood bulge.
That said, I think the R18/R20 would fit pretty easily. However, even the 150 hp R20 is kind of dull from what I hear. But it would be quite a bit quicker IMO.
SC
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sennaFAN
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superchg2 the reason for going back to try the CRZ again was down to a previous experience with a CTR where I kinda hated it first time round but on reaquantance I really enjoyed the car.
The first one I bought was only a thousand miles old and was quite expensive so I felt compelled to drive like a granny and keep it absolutely immaculate.
This time the investment was less and I felt more inclined to rack up some more spirited miles in it to see if I had a change of heart as I did with the CTR.
I didnt.... less than a week after purchase I have decided to put it up for sale.
What sums this up to me is that I am the fourth owner of this car which is 18 months old and with just 9k miles on it.
Honestly this car will suit many down to the ground I am sure, but it needs a 1.8 + hybrid to make its performance match its stunning looks.
Have you owned or driven one as a matter of interest ??
The best car by a mile I have owned recently is an Accord diesel auto, which I am intending to go back to.
I will genuinely miss the unique feeling of sitting in the CRZ, there is a genuine sense of occasion and character with this car, its such a shame at present it is more show than go.
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superchg2
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sennaFAN wrote:
superchg2 the reason for going back to try the CRZ again was down to a previous experience with a CTR where I kinda hated it first time round but on reaquantance I really enjoyed the car.
The first one I bought was only a thousand miles old and was quite expensive so I felt compelled to drive like a granny and keep it absolutely immaculate.
This time the investment was less and I felt more inclined to rack up some more spirited miles in it to see if I had a change of heart as I did with the CTR.
I didnt.... less than a week after purchase I have decided to put it up for sale.
What sums this up to me is that I am the fourth owner of this car which is 18 months old and with just 9k miles on it.
Honestly this car will suit many down to the ground I am sure, but it needs a 1.8 + hybrid to make its performance match its stunning looks.
Have you owned or driven one as a matter of interest ??
The best car by a mile I have owned recently is an Accord diesel auto, which I am intending to go back to.
I will genuinely miss the unique feeling of sitting in the CRZ, there is a genuine sense of occasion and character with this car, its such a shame at present it is more show than go.
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I have not had a chance to drive the CRZ. I've been pretty happy with my '06 Si these last 6 1/2 years.
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DCR
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sennaFAN wrote:
I will genuinely miss the unique feeling of sitting in the CRZ, there is a genuine sense of occasion and character with this car, its such a shame at present it is more show than go.
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This right here is it. This is exactly what I felt when I drove the 6 speed version the few times I have. This car gets all of the Honda "juices" flowing, and the DNA of their character is deeply embedded, but the car simply falls short if you have owned other Honda cars that have lit the fuse inside, PLUS has the engine to carry that experience forward.
I found myself instantly conflicted about the car. I like how it looks, I like the interior, I like the shifter, I like the steering wheel. I couldn't get over the poor visibility and slow performance. The car just begs to have an Si variant, and without it, I doubt I could ever own one.
Also, having owned a Civic Hybrid, I am also aware of the shortcomings of the hybrid design now. I can easily say that I will never purchase an IMA-based vehicle again.
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sennaFAN
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DCR I am glad you share the frustration I felt with this car. Imagine for a second if it had 180+hp and an urge and fire in its powerplant.
This is my frustration, Honda has the powerplants, both petrol and derv. They have the car, plus plenty of people who would crave a genuine ' Honda ' with the character that manufacturer has in abundance.
superchg2 please dont think I was being argumentative, I was asking if you had driven one only to gain your views on the car and its performance.
The only reason, as some know here, that I change cars regularly is that I own a garage in the UK which gives me access to a new ( used ) Honda ( more often than not ) every few months. This ensures I either sell them for a small profit or very small loss.
My current Hondas are the aforementioned CRZ which replaced an Accord auto diesel tourer and my wife has a CRV diesel, although that is having a very rare gearbox rebuild under warranty and she is driving an Insight.
Which ironically, DCR, because of the use she gives it and its total lack of pretention is a cracking little car.
The CVT works brilliantly with the IMA in giving a seamless drive and an easy 55+ mpg in a package that suits the kiddy ferrying duties perfectly.
I have driven hybrids I genuinely liked, they include, dare I say it here, the Prius, an RX400h and an older manual Civic IMA.
The only reason I cant get on with the CRZ is because it is Penelope Cruz on the outside with my asthmatic granny on the inside.
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THX17201
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sennaFAN wrote:
The only reason I cant get on with the CRZ is because it is Penelope Cruz on the outside with my asthmatic granny on the inside.
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LOL!
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owequitit
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DCR wrote:
sennaFAN wrote:
I will genuinely miss the unique feeling of sitting in the CRZ, there is a genuine sense of occasion and character with this car, its such a shame at present it is more show than go.
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This right here is it. This is exactly what I felt when I drove the 6 speed version the few times I have. This car gets all of the Honda "juices" flowing, and the DNA of their character is deeply embedded, but the car simply falls short if you have owned other Honda cars that have lit the fuse inside, PLUS has the engine to carry that experience forward.
I found myself instantly conflicted about the car. I like how it looks, I like the interior, I like the shifter, I like the steering wheel. I couldn't get over the poor visibility and slow performance. The car just begs to have an Si variant, and without it, I doubt I could ever own one.
Also, having owned a Civic Hybrid, I am also aware of the shortcomings of the hybrid design now. I can easily say that I will never purchase an IMA-based vehicle again.
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I had EXACTLY the same problem. I loved the looks, the character, the ambiance and the materials/quality. Loved the visual experience of the car. Loved the tactile experience. And then the powertrain ruined it...
The exchange rate might play a role, but it is far from the only reason the CR-Z isn't selling. We wouldn't have a huge glut of supply if that were the case.
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jero
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Very interesting that the ground clearance with the k20 is an issue... didn't think of that angle. I also have seen the original KR-Z, and the engine bay was so astoundingly OEM it was unreal. A tuned K20 would just be what the Dr. ordered.
Do you know what the specific ground clearance is by chance?
For comparison the S2000 has 4.2 inches stock.
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Nick GravesX
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DCR wrote:
sennaFAN wrote:
I will genuinely miss the unique feeling of sitting in the CRZ, there is a genuine sense of occasion and character with this car, its such a shame at present it is more show than go.
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This right here is it. This is exactly what I felt when I drove the 6 speed version the few times I have. This car gets all of the Honda "juices" flowing, and the DNA of their character is deeply embedded, but the car simply falls short if you have owned other Honda cars that have lit the fuse inside, PLUS has the engine to carry that experience forward.
I found myself instantly conflicted about the car. I like how it looks, I like the interior, I like the shifter, I like the steering wheel. I couldn't get over the poor visibility and slow performance. The car just begs to have an Si variant, and without it, I doubt I could ever own one.
Also, having owned a Civic Hybrid, I am also aware of the shortcomings of the hybrid design now. I can easily say that I will never purchase an IMA-based vehicle again.
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I think that is the best summary of the situation I've yet read!
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kidoairaku
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If you want Japanese sales figures here they are:
CR-Z
Jan - 739
Feb - 614
Mar - 725
Apr - 342
May - 345
for perspective here's
Insight
Jan - 742
Feb - 1208
Mar - 1758
Apr - 598
May - 566
Fit Hybrid
Jan - 4802
Feb - 5601
Mar - 9252
Apr - 4582
May - 4632
Fit Shuttle Hybrid
Jan - 8498
Feb - 9757
Mar - 8864
Apr - 3656
May - 3799
Freed Hybrid
Jan - 5584
Feb - 5601
Mar - 5181
Apr - 2985
May - 2956
Freed Spike Hybrid
Jan - 2744
Feb - 1991
Mar - 2460
Apr - 1229
May - 1424
I'm pretty sure Honda doesnt care about Insight or CRZ seeing as how the majority of sales comes from the Fit and Freed lines.
And just for fun.
Prius
Jan - 29,108
Feb - 35,875
Mar - 45,496
Apr - 21,906
May - 20,789
even the Esteem and Alphard outsells insight or CRZ
source: http://hybrid-eco.net/index.html
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