lexusgs
 |
|
Rumor was this power plant was going to be putting out around 400 hp for the new RLX, then they said 370+ at the auto show, and now they are down to just 370hp on the Acura website. That means the hybrid system with 3 motors combined is only putting out 60hp and there won't be much power going to the rear wheels. 370hp will be uncompetitive as soon as it is released as other competitors have already 400+hp or will have 400hp. The hybrid Infiniti M already has 360hp so 10 more hp won't be special especially considering it will be on a fwd accord platform and will be heavier.
This seems like a repeat in history of releasing the RL with not enough power to make a statement, we know Honda is not going to give it power updates either, the 2nd gen RL only got a 10hp boost in its entire cycle towards the end.
This also is concerning for what the hp/performance the new NSX will have as they have said it will have the same powerplant or similar but reversed meaning it may only make just 400hp or so at most if they give it a little boost in power.
I hope this RL can perform but from what we have seen it is troubling, very bland styling, disappointing interior, hp numbers keep going down, etc. If the performance/power is unimpressive what else is it going to sell on, nobody cares about getting good gas mileage at that price level especially if it is compromised, hybrids in executive or fuel sized lux sedans sell poorly.
|
Mikeydred
|
|
|
Well the verdict is still out on the torque numbers if somehow they can at least garnish 330 lbs/ft we may have something special, plus the initial boost the electric motors will offer will give the vehicle some balls. FWIW the other competitors from Japan will have less HP than the RLX (excluding M45), 400 HP in this class is actually rare. But I agree the RLX needs something special to stand out from the pack.
|
danielgr
|
|
lexusgs wrote:
Rumor was this power plant was going to be putting out around 400 hp for the new RLX, then they said 370+ at the auto show, and now they are down to just 370hp on the Acura website. That means the hybrid system with 3 motors combined is only putting out 60hp and there won't be much power going to the rear wheels. 370hp will be uncompetitive as soon as it is released as other competitors have already 400+hp or will have 400hp. The hybrid Infiniti M already has 360hp so 10 more hp won't be special especially considering it will be on a fwd accord platform and will be heavier.
This seems like a repeat in history of releasing the RL with not enough power to make a statement, we know Honda is not going to give it power updates either, the 2nd gen RL only got a 10hp boost in its entire cycle towards the end.
This also is concerning for what the hp/performance the new NSX will have as they have said it will have the same powerplant or similar but reversed meaning it may only make just 400hp or so at most if they give it a little boost in power.
I hope this RL can perform but from what we have seen it is troubling, very bland styling, disappointing interior, hp numbers keep going down, etc. If the performance/power is unimpressive what else is it going to sell on, nobody cares about getting good gas mileage at that price level especially if it is compromised, hybrids in executive or fuel sized lux sedans sell poorly.
|
1) That's what happens when people believe groundless rumours; they get disappointed.
2) Nearly 15 years after the release of the first hybrid, one would guess "car enthusiasts" have come to understand that while NA gasoline engines deliver top power at high revs electric motors deliver their peak values from nearly 0 revs, and fade when going up. Wrong guess, since you still pretend to do pointless maths on motor's power output...
3) Really, if Honda wanted to challenge for power they would have brought the V10 they had testing pre Lehmann, over a decade of TOV and people still complaining Honda flagships are underpowered... At least now they'll give you something truly unique for the first time (Sports Hybrid SH-AWD and 30 combined mpg for a V8-class car...). If you don't like what Honda has to offer ain't nothing wrong with honoring your nickname.
4) We know that the NSX won't use the RLX gasoline engine, so whatever it brings you'll have to wait and see. That said, if you start by believing 500+ HP ratings you may end up disappointed...
|
Karl80
|
|
"370hp will be uncompetitive as soon as it is released as other competitors have already 400+hp or will have 400hp."
Definitely FALSE.. please inform yourself before spilling out misinformation and bias.
The new Lexus 2013 GS450h barely reaches 340hp, the MB S400 Hybrid 300hp,the new BMW ActiveHybrid 5 only puts 330hp the M45h 360 and the 2012 Audi A6 Hybrid 245hp.
|
TurkMan71
|
|
I understand the OP's concerns about 'only 370hp'...
Honda/Acura was an under-promising over-delivering wonder back in the day...I do recall reading 370hp+ from many publications including Honda sourced info...
New York Autoshow Acura RLX press release:
'The RLX Concept's all-new 3.5L direct-injected VTEC® V-6 engine and Sport Hybrid SH-AWD® system combine to generate more than 370-horsepower'
|
lexusgs
|
|
Karl80 wrote:
"370hp will be uncompetitive as soon as it is released as other competitors have already 400+hp or will have 400hp."
Definitely FALSE.. please inform yourself before spilling out misinformation and bias.
The new Lexus 2013 GS450h barely reaches 340hp, the MB S400 Hybrid 300hp,the new BMW ActiveHybrid 5 only puts 330hp the M45h 360 and the 2012 Audi A6 Hybrid 245hp.
|
There is no misinformation. The Lexus GS450h is not Lexus's flagship sedan, the 5 series is not BMWs flagship sedan, A6 not Audi's flagship, the RLX is Acura's flagship luxury sedan so directly comparing them is not very smart especially when Acura has been saying the RLX will have the interior space of the 7 series which means they expect to compete against it at some level.
Since a high hp IC engine will not be offered in the RLX you can't just compare the RLX hybrid to other competitors hybrids either since the RLX hybrid has to compete on the "green" front and the performance power front. The 5, 7 series also offer 400+hp V8s, M offers a 400+hp V8, Merc offers 400+hp V8s in the E and S class, Lexus offers a 380hp V8 now in the LS which will most likely be over 400 by the time the RLX goes on sale. The new Lexus GS may get a V8 for a F version.
I really hope the RLX will offer the performance and power to be very competitive. Everybody makes bold mileage claims these days only to not achieve that mileage in the real world in most cases.
Over promising and under delivering has been a problem Honda and Acura has not been immune to and they need something very impressive to jump start RL sales and get some respect for the name. So far I am not really seeing it with this new RLX, the only saving grace was that it was going to have a unique hybrid system putting out some serious power but they are lowering the hp number. How can you say over 370hp or 370+ at a auto show only to revise it at just 370hp a few months later especially when rumors before were it would be in the 400hp range (around 300hp IC motor + 100hp combined battery/electric)?
I did read one source that said they confirmed the main motor will put out 40hp and the rears will put out 27hp each for a total of 94hp from the hybrid. If the RLX is only putting out 370hp then that would mean the IC engine is only putting out around 276hp. Why such a low hp number especially if it is new engine that has DI and the same basic engine in the base RLX is putting out 310hp?
If the IC engine is making 310hp then the hybrid system is only putting out 60hp, most likely 30hp or so in the motor connected to the trans and about 15hp to each rear wheel or 30hp in total to the rear wheels. The AWD is now totally electric without a rear driveshaft so I don't see how they channel power from the front IC engine and larger e motor attached to the transmission to the rear wheels, over 75% of the power will always be going to the front wheels which is far higher then the mechanical SH-AWD or most other awd systems.
I just hope this system is better then the mech SH-AWD and by better I do not mean just more fuel efficient and green.
|
Gumbercules
|
|
TurkMan, the OP is concerned that it doesn't have 400HP which Acura never promised. None of its hybrid competitors have 400 HP, not even the $95k Porsche Panamera Hybrid.
Even the BMW 535ix has "only" 330hp, rated at 21 city /30 HWY, and costs $55k. So if the RLX can be in this price range than IMHO that makes it a good value for torque vectoring eSH-AWD and 30/30 rating and 370HP.
To get to 400HP and AWD, you have to get the $65k 550ix, and I doubt the RLX will sell for that much (at least I hope it doesnt cost that much).
|
Karl80
|
|
|
God! nice try lying and misinforming again. People are smarter than you think. Apples to apples and oranges to oranges. We are talking about HYBRIDS here. Don't BS us comparing the 3.5V6 RLX with gas guzzlers V8's please! Unbelievable.
|
Karl80
|
|
lexusgs wrote:
Karl80 wrote:
"370hp will be uncompetitive as soon as it is released as other competitors have already 400+hp or will have 400hp."
Definitely FALSE.. please inform yourself before spilling out misinformation and bias.
The new Lexus 2013 GS450h barely reaches 340hp, the MB S400 Hybrid 300hp,the new BMW ActiveHybrid 5 only puts 330hp the M45h 360 and the 2012 Audi A6 Hybrid 245hp.
|
There is no misinformation. The Lexus GS450h is not Lexus's flagship sedan, the 5 series is not BMWs flagship sedan, A6 not Audi's flagship, the RLX is Acura's flagship luxury sedan so directly comparing them is not very smart especially when Acura has been saying the RLX will have the interior space of the 7 series which means they expect to compete against it at some level.
|
Just wow. So you are saying just because the RL/X is the Acura flagship it HAS to compete with the S series, 7-series, A8 and LS?? really? Everybody who knows something about the industry knows that by dimensions and capabilities, Acura's flagship is in a different category than the German's flagships or Lexus. It competes in the Infiniti M, GS, A6, MB-E, and 5-series category. When Acura referred to the interior space similar to the 7-Series, they were actually making that point clear: 7-series interior space in a 5-series sized-car.
It doesn't take too much brain power to understand.
|
longhorn
|
|
|
The RL is not competing with the A8s, S classes and 7 series of the world. Just like Infiniti flagship has found its sweet's spot going against the E Class,5 series and A6, so will this RLX car.
|
onetyme_sam
|
|
longhorn wrote:
The RL is not competing with the A8s, S classes and 7 series of the world. Just like Infiniti flagship has found its sweet's spot going against the E Class,5 series and A6, so will this RLX car.
|
so does acura want to be tier 1 with bargain compromises? i am confused on what acura wants to be. if i recall acura competes with buick, volvo, and lincoln.
they need to say "room bigger than a volvo s80 and more ingenious than a buick verano with styling better than lincoln. because we are still tier 2 with pipe dreams of being tier 1"
apples to apples. just saying
|
DrWhiner
|
|
lexusgs wrote:
If the RLX is only putting out 370hp then that would mean the IC engine is only putting out around 276hp. Why such a low hp number especially if it is new engine that has DI and the same basic engine in the base RLX is putting out 310hp?
If the IC engine is making 310hp then the hybrid system is only putting out 60hp, most likely 30hp or so in the motor connected to the trans and about 15hp to each rear wheel or 30hp in total to the rear wheels.
|
How about a perusal of this
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/alternative/1207_infiniti_m35h_vs_lexus_gs_450h_vs_porsche_panamera_hybrid/specs.html ?
|
TurkMan71
|
|
Gumbercules wrote:
TurkMan, the OP is concerned that it doesn't have 400HP which Acura never promised. None of its hybrid competitors have 400 HP, not even the $95k Porsche Panamera Hybrid.
Even the BMW 535ix has "only" 330hp, rated at 21 city /30 HWY, and costs $55k. So if the RLX can be in this price range than IMHO that makes it a good value for torque vectoring eSH-AWD and 30/30 rating and 370HP.
To get to 400HP and AWD, you have to get the $65k 550ix, and I doubt the RLX will sell for that much (at least I hope it doesnt cost that much).
|
Maybe so but the fact remains Acura's press release said 370hp+ and now we are seeing 'only' 370hp. I'm sure it will be a good performer, but luxury is about marketing as much as anything else and in this regard Acura is underperforming...SPECTACULARLY. Remember the current gen was touted with a unique awd system (sh-awd really is rather excellent) and it has failed miserably in the market place. Acura can't afford to be sloppy, throwing out numbers it can't back up in the next month...
|
DrWhiner
|
|
|
I won't bet the farm on 'only' 370 hp. Remember the initial MPG of ILX, anyone?
|
hondacura
|
|
onetyme_sam wrote:
longhorn wrote:
The RL is not competing with the A8s, S classes and 7 series of the world. Just like Infiniti flagship has found its sweet's spot going against the E Class,5 series and A6, so will this RLX car.
|
so does acura want to be tier 1 with bargain compromises? i am confused on what acura wants to be. if i recall acura competes with buick, volvo, and lincoln.
they need to say "room bigger than a volvo s80 and more ingenious than a buick verano with styling better than lincoln. because we are still tier 2 with pipe dreams of being tier 1"
apples to apples. just saying
|
no, you're just bitching... apples to oranges.
|
TurkMan71
|
|
DrWhiner wrote:
I won't bet the farm on 'only' 370 hp. Remember the initial MPG of ILX, anyone?
|
Well I'll be pleasantly surprised then...but for now, count me disappointed with the absence of the '+' in the 370hp+
|
jero
|
|
Honda chooses to not compete with anyone with the RLX. They are hoping that people that spend $60k on a smart luxury vehicle really give two craps about 8mpg. (approx $500/year in gas for the US). I don't think they do, but sales data will be the truth.
But it is a bit hard to believe the flagship Acura has about 20 more hp than a $28k Hyundai Genesis.
|
ClementZ
|
|
jero wrote:
Honda chooses to not compete with anyone with the RLX. They are hoping that people that spend $60k on a smart luxury vehicle really give two craps about 8mpg. (approx $500/year in gas for the US). I don't think they do, but sales data will be the truth.
But it is a bit hard to believe the flagship Acura has about 20 more hp than a $28k Hyundai Genesis.
|
A Genesis costs 28k?
My 2005 I4 Accord cost 28K after options...
Where the hell do you live?
|
WingZ
|
|
1) LOL
4) Really?? From everything I'd seen they will be using the same engine as the new 3.5 ED engine is the top of the line. Honda is supposed to use lightweight to maximize performance.
I believe the RLX will be very fast due to the electric motors having instant tq. Isn't the tq supposed to be somewhere along the lines of 400?? That may have changed since the motors were supposed to be 25hp a piece and that seems to be lower now.
Has anyone considered Honda may be underrating the engine and that the 370 might be whats at the wheels??
|
mobis21
|
|
370 hp, and 30 miles per gallon in the city.
Sorry Original poster, your trolling is a big failure.
|
George Knighton
|
|
mobis21 wrote:
370 hp, and 30 miles per gallon in the city.
|
I don't know if he was deliberately trolling or lamenting like all Honda/Acura aficionado from the heyday that they haven't stayed on top of the street racer game.
:-)
I'm keeping an open mind and looking forward to the RLX.
Horsepower, shmorsepower.
My daily driver is a 2010 TL 6-6 SH-AWD. It only has 305 HP, and no week goes by that I don't find myself thinking a couple of times, "What a nice car."
It's not super at anything. It's just...nice. Especially for the money.
I'm hoping I can say the same thing for the RLX.
|
iahs2k
|
|
mobis21 wrote:
370 hp, and 30 miles per gallon in the city.
Sorry Original poster, your trolling is a big failure.
|
Sorry but your paid brand pumping as a Honda shill shows through.
|
lexusgs
|
|
mobis21 wrote:
370 hp, and 30 miles per gallon in the city.
Sorry Original poster, your trolling is a big failure.
|
Sorry, No trolling, just a observation and opinion which we are free to share on this site. Do you ever have any proof on your silly baseless "troll" accusations or do you just throw things out there about posters and hope they stick? That is what I consider trolling, attacking anyone and throwing out the "troll" card to anyone who may be critical of Honda even when someone makes legitimate and non confrontational points.
The RLX is going to need the power and performance to compete not only when it is released but a few years down the road. Honda has often been very reluctant to give its models significant boosts in power/performance even under criticism as seen with the the current RL not getting much in terms of a hp increase and no top of the line engine. The RLX will get compared to flagships like the 7 series and LS as it will be similar in size/interior and it is Acura's flagship sedan. Acura lowering power figures this early is troubling especially considering not many seem impressed with the design so far.
|
Karl80
|
|
lexusgs wrote:
The RLX will get compared to flagships like the 7 series and LS as it will be similar in size/interior and it is Acura's flagship sedan. Acura lowering power figures this early is troubling especially considering not many seem impressed with the design so far.
|
you ARE a troll. With your flawed "logic" then the Infiniti M (Inifinti's flagship) should also compete with the LS and 7-series ?? Give me a break. Please go away.
|
TurkMan71
|
|
Karl80 wrote:
lexusgs wrote:
The RLX will get compared to flagships like the 7 series and LS as it will be similar in size/interior and it is Acura's flagship sedan. Acura lowering power figures this early is troubling especially considering not many seem impressed with the design so far.
|
you ARE a troll. With your flawed "logic" then the Infiniti M (Inifinti's flagship) should also compete with the LS and 7-series ?? Give me a break. Please go away.
|
Not to get into the troll wars but... the RL was always Acura's top of the line car (even though it never really aspired to be a 7-series fighter) On the other hand the Infiniti M was never meant to replace their Q, a car for sure meant to compete with the 7-series...
Infiniti really doesn't bother with 'tweeners' - cars that don't quite match up or down to the competition. Acura is famous for it: TSX a 3-series fighter or is the TL? TL a 5-series fighter or is the RL? Because the RLX will have the interior volume of a 7-series but the footprint of the 5-series and a price probably cheaper than both, what segment should it be put in? Will it be fair to compare interior amenities/quality with the 7-series if it's the same size inside?
This is part of the confusion that is Acura. Sure you could say it's value priced, smart luxury, etc....bottom line: it muddies the perception of Acura in the mind of the luxury consumer.
|
lexusgs
|
|
Karl80 wrote:
lexusgs wrote:
The RLX will get compared to flagships like the 7 series and LS as it will be similar in size/interior and it is Acura's flagship sedan. Acura lowering power figures this early is troubling especially considering not many seem impressed with the design so far.
|
you ARE a troll. With your flawed "logic" then the Infiniti M (Inifinti's flagship) should also compete with the LS and 7-series ?? Give me a break. Please go away.
|
It is amazing how utterly clueless you are. Take some time to comprehend if you can and try to research before you post such nonsense. The Infiniti Q45 was Infiniti's flagship to go against the LS, 7 series, etc for a long time. The M45 was always a midsize executive car to go against the 5 series, Lexus GS, etc. They both sold together at a period in time with the Q being the flagship and the M being below it. Due to poor sales Infiniti dropped the flagship Q45, but retained the M, it was was never meant to be Infiniti's true flagship but since their is no Q it is their only car above the G. Kind of hard for the M to be a real full on flagship when they only have 2 sedans to choose from now . There are rumors the Q may return and when/if it does it will go right back above the M. The M also has a v8 option with over 400hp.
Acura never had a sedan above the Legend/RL, Legend/RL is its flagship intended to compete not only with executive cars but in some cases something between a executive and flagship. The 2nd Gen Legend was often compared and cross shopped between a LS400, full size Audi sedan, and 7 series. With the power and interior size boost the RLX is supposed to be even a closer competitor to a LS or 7 series, many have been asking Acura for a bigger sedan then the current RL to compete more closely to the 7 series and LS.
|
Karl80
|
|
lexusgs wrote:
Karl80 wrote:
lexusgs wrote:
The RLX will get compared to flagships like the 7 series and LS as it will be similar in size/interior and it is Acura's flagship sedan. Acura lowering power figures this early is troubling especially considering not many seem impressed with the design so far.
|
you ARE a troll. With your flawed "logic" then the Infiniti M (Inifinti's flagship) should also compete with the LS and 7-series ?? Give me a break. Please go away.
|
It is amazing how utterly clueless you are. Take some time to comprehend if you can and try to research before you post such nonsense. The Infiniti Q45 was Infiniti's flagship to go against the LS, 7 series, etc for a long time. The M45 was always a midsize executive car to go against the 5 series, Lexus GS, etc. They both sold together at a period in time with the Q being the flagship and the M being below it. Due to poor sales Infiniti dropped the flagship Q45, but retained the M, it was was never meant to be Infiniti's true flagship but since their is no Q it is their only car above the G. Kind of hard for the M to be a real full on flagship when they only have 2 sedans to choose from now . There are rumors the Q may return and when/if it does it will go right back above the M. The M also has a v8 option with over 400hp.
Acura never had a sedan above the Legend/RL, Legend/RL is its flagship intended to compete not only with executive cars but in some cases something between a executive and flagship. The 2nd Gen Legend was often compared and cross shopped between a LS400, full size Audi sedan, and 7 series. With the power and interior size boost the RLX is supposed to be even a closer competitor to a LS or 7 series, many have been asking Acura for a bigger sedan then the current RL to compete more closely to the 7 series and LS.
|
Wow, you are such an ignorant. Who will cross shop the LS or 7 series with the RL??? are you serious? size wise, specs wise and price-wise they are in totally different categories. RL/M/5 Series/E-Class/M/A6 = same. LS/7-series/S-Class/A8 = different. UNDERSTOOD, TROLL???
BTW, here in America we don't use "executive" as a category. So maybe that is your problem.
|
jero
|
|
The problem is Acura's flagship car does not compete with any one elses flagship vehicle.
The RLX will be more of a competitor for the Genesis/5 series/A6, which are not flagship vehicles.
Smart flagship... pseudo flagship... It is a easy way for acura to throw in the towel and compete with an asterisk.
|
NSXforever
|
|
|
thanks udel for the comedy gold :D
|
poom0
|
|
The Acura Legend and now the RLX is going to be the flagship. A flagship isn't made to compete against other flagships, mind you. Flagships are only there to present the best that the brand has to offer in terms of their engineering and technological advancement.
The 7-series is BMW's flagship, and it competes with the Mercedes S-Class because they are nearly identical in dimension. However, the Acura RLX gives passengers a full-size cabin, in a mid-sized package. This is Acura's flagship. Acura's flagship is to give passengers the space they want inside, but to not have such a large footprint on the outside. Coupled with what I think is the most advanced hybrid system to be invented based on the most advanced all-wheel-drive system invented, this will become Acura's flagship.
Don't think of a flagship sedan as a size category, rather, as what the brand wants to label the car that best represents them as.
That being said, Acura may start removing the "flagship" title from the RLX in three years time, when the car the World has been waiting for is produced.
|
|
|
| |
![[home]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/home.gif){kind=small}
![[rumors and news]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/rumors.gif){kind=small}
![[model release matrix]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/newmodelreleasematrix.gif){kind=small}
![[dealer network]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/dealernet.gif){kind=small}
![[desktop calendar]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/calendar.gif){kind=small}
![[exhaust notes]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/exhaust.gif){kind=small}
![[tov forums]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/forums.gif){kind=small}
![[links]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/links.gif){kind=small}
![[search]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/search.gif){kind=small}
![[sponsors]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/sponsors.gif){kind=small}
![[garage]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/garage.gif){kind=small}
![[login]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/login.gif){kind=small}
