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330R
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That's a nice launch.
Scion annual sales target for FR-S (US): 20,000
Subaru annual sales target for BRZ (US): 5,000-7,000
approx 0% hybrid in model mix
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jero
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But, but, Honda doesn't need to make a car like this!! Who wants a RWD small 2 seater with jump seats? Who wants a non hybrid sports car? Who wants positive press and product buzz?!
cars.com national inventory:
FR-S... 320.
BRZ... 160.
Nail... meet hammer.
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Nick GravesX
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Pleased it's off to a good start.
If only they did a hybrid with absolutely no performance & a stupidly high scuttle & a torsion beam axle...
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iahs2k
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Ito-san to board......oh my....this doesn't make any sense! Our data shows there is no market for a car such as this. What the people really want is a CR-Zzzzzz. Maybe Subaru BRZ customers are confused an think they are buying a CRZzzz but are instead mistakenly buying a BRZ? Let's get Honda legal on that right away. In the mean time lets continue to build irrelevant and boring cars that make Toyota and GM seem like cutting edge enthusiast rebel market leaders. We at Honda know whats best for our customers. Our customers want bland under powered appliances!!!!
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Hondarulez
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may be Honda should join up with Mazda or Nissan to create such car.
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danielgr
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jero wrote:
But, but, Honda doesn't need to make a car like this!! Who wants a RWD small 2 seater with jump seats? Who wants a non hybrid sports car? Who wants positive press and product buzz?!
[...] |
- If you guys want something like that you should buy it, it's the only way you have a remote chance of Honda doing it. So far though it seems that we only have one FR-S project from DCR; you guys really need to keep more coming !
- The rationale of your post isn't really very "Honda-like". For as long as I can remember Honda's special cars have never been engineered nor built to become sales hits. For this kind of product Honda has always done "whatever they wanted to do", whatever they felt was "right" or "best". You still have people in this board claiming that the new RL will be a failure because it doesn't have true V8 power, and that "Honda will never learn"; I guess the point is that Honda keeps doing "whatever they want"... There will always be people that like Hondas, and those that don't. It does seem though that the number of people liking them keeps increasing year after year...
Back in the time of the raw TypeR's all of them were abundantly outsold by turbocharged and large engine alternatives and more refined cars, and that doesn't mean Honda "should do it". There had always been RWD competitors, and Honda fans were those claiming that a good Honda FWD car could best any RWD car you throw at it anytime. Now, I'm talking about "Honda enthusiasts" though... of which it seems there are not so many left around.
With time I'm starting to think that maybe there were never so many of them. Just a few folks that didn't have the money to afford "real sports cars" and spent their time pretending their cheap high reving tuned FWD ones were "better", only because well, that's all they could afford to buy. With time the same people has growned up, maybe got wealthier, and now finally realized what they really want is a "real sports car", which obviously isn't Honda's core, never has been.
The younger ones, those that should have replaced the elders are simply looking somewhere else to span their enthusiasm.
Either way, I really hope Honda does something to address TOV hunger, if only so that we can have a little bit of peace on the board and less people trashing other people on an hourly basis...
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DCR
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danielgr wrote:
With time I'm starting to think that maybe there were never so many of them. Just a few folks that didn't have the money to afford "real sports cars" and spent their time pretending their cheap high reving tuned FWD ones were "better", only because well, that's all they could afford to buy. With time the same people has growned up, maybe got wealthier, and now finally realized what they really want is a "real sports car", which obviously isn't Honda's core, never has been.
The younger ones, those that should have replaced the elders are simply looking somewhere else to span their enthusiasm.
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Keep telling yourself this, and it will eventually become true.
You never got it Daniel, and you never will. I can repeat myself over and again on how you are totally incorrect in that statement, but you've got an "H" stuffed in both ears so you'll never hear it.
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dominik331
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Here is the thing though, do you only buy cars from Honda? Do you buy new cars at all because other than CanTex ?, Neal, Tonye, Jeff and DCR, I hardly remember anyone posting about their new car purchase. So in a way, I do agree with daniel.
I might not agree with DCR on some of his posts, but I'll give props for actually going out and buying something that hopefully will make him happy. The Toyobaru twins seem to be a great offer for sports car enthusiasts at a reasonable price. Go ahead and try them out. Show Honda that there is a market for such vehicle (I believe that was Daniel's point) Stop waiting for Acura to build you an M3 at the price of a Honda Civic.
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notyper
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Shorter danielgr:
"If you don't like what Honda has, just go away and let the rest of us keep pretending everything is ok, always has been ok, and always will be ok."
If Honda doesn't make a sports car, its because its not their core (never mind that the S-car has been around a long time in various forms, or that the NSX and S2000 were among the best _ever_ seen in their class, and remain outstanding even today).
If Honda neuters their suspension designs, its ok because the rest of the competition is doing it, and hey, they still handle all right.
If Honda neuters the K-series, its all for the best because emissions and fuel economy are more important, and hey, its still a 200 hp engine.
If Honda sticks with an ancient 5AT for years after everyone else moves to 6+ speeds, its ok, because at least its a Honda proprietary design. That's much better than improving performance and economy with more speeds.
Right? Right?
Its always ok if Honda dumbs down to match the competition, and its also ok if they don't follow the competition on improvements. Notice a trend? Its ok to be worse, whether you're following or not.
Of course, some will say, it's all part of a greater plan, we just can't see it yet. Honda is playing the long game and it will pay off in the end. Seems to me that Toyota became a giant by going all beige and even they've realized that's a mistake. Only problem is that Honda doesn't have their resources nor will they ever be as big - so why do they want to go down that road?
SC
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Nick GravesX
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:D
Daniel's revisionist-history post is the funniest thing I have read here in a long time!
Not jealous that DCR got the right car, perchance?
;)
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THX17201
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danielgr wrote:
jero wrote:
But, but, Honda doesn't need to make a car like this!! Who wants a RWD small 2 seater with jump seats? Who wants a non hybrid sports car? Who wants positive press and product buzz?!
[...] |
- If you guys want something like that you should buy it, it's the only way you have a remote chance of Honda doing it. So far though it seems that we only have one FR-S project from DCR; you guys really need to keep more coming !
- The rationale of your post isn't really very "Honda-like". For as long as I can remember Honda's special cars have never been engineered nor built to become sales hits. For this kind of product Honda has always done "whatever they wanted to do", whatever they felt was "right" or "best". You still have people in this board claiming that the new RL will be a failure because it doesn't have true V8 power, and that "Honda will never learn"; I guess the point is that Honda keeps doing "whatever they want"... There will always be people that like Hondas, and those that don't. It does seem though that the number of people liking them keeps increasing year after year...
Back in the time of the raw TypeR's all of them were abundantly outsold by turbocharged and large engine alternatives and more refined cars, and that doesn't mean Honda "should do it". There had always been RWD competitors, and Honda fans were those claiming that a good Honda FWD car could best any RWD car you throw at it anytime. Now, I'm talking about "Honda enthusiasts" though... of which it seems there are not so many left around.
With time I'm starting to think that maybe there were never so many of them. Just a few folks that didn't have the money to afford "real sports cars" and spent their time pretending their cheap high reving tuned FWD ones were "better", only because well, that's all they could afford to buy. With time the same people has growned up, maybe got wealthier, and now finally realized what they really want is a "real sports car", which obviously isn't Honda's core, never has been.
The younger ones, those that should have replaced the elders are simply looking somewhere else to span their enthusiasm.
Either way, I really hope Honda does something to address TOV hunger, if only so that we can have a little bit of peace on the board and less people trashing other people on an hourly basis...
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I used to love Hondas/Acuras. Then they stopped making cars that interested me. My friends and I stopped buying them, stopped talking them up to friends and family.
In 2010 I bought a Mazda even though I WANTED to get another Honda. My lease will be up in the next 8 months. I will get another Mazda. My mom is buying a Mazda because of me, and my dad's next car likely will be. I have another friend in the market who I've been talking up Mazda to and he is very interested in Mazda now.
I still read this website daily because I used to love Honda/Acura and I still love this website. I don't love Honda anymore...
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Hondarulez
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notyper wrote:
Shorter danielgr:
"If you don't like what Honda has, just go away and let the rest of us keep pretending everything is ok, always has been ok, and always will be ok."
If Honda doesn't make a sports car, its because its not their core (never mind that the S-car has been around a long time in various forms, or that the NSX and S2000 were among the best _ever_ seen in their class, and remain outstanding even today).
If Honda neuters their suspension designs, its ok because the rest of the competition is doing it, and hey, they still handle all right.
If Honda neuters the K-series, its all for the best because emissions and fuel economy are more important, and hey, its still a 200 hp engine.
If Honda sticks with an ancient 5AT for years after everyone else moves to 6+ speeds, its ok, because at least its a Honda proprietary design. That's much better than improving performance and economy with more speeds.
Right? Right?
Its always ok if Honda dumbs down to match the competition, and its also ok if they don't follow the competition on improvements. Notice a trend? Its ok to be worse, whether you're following or not.
Of course, some will say, it's all part of a greater plan, we just can't see it yet. Honda is playing the long game and it will pay off in the end. Seems to me that Toyota became a giant by going all beige and even they've realized that's a mistake. Only problem is that Honda doesn't have their resources nor will they ever be as big - so why do they want to go down that road?
SC
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Huh?
I don't think danielgr is telling people to pretend Honda is doing everything ok. He's telling people to buy other products, so Honda will realize that they are not making products that Honda enthusiasts want...no? That way, we can get the real K20 back, we can get the good suspension back, we can get new trannies, etc. I think that's daniel's point.
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integrator
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dominik331 wrote:
Stop waiting for Acura to build you an M3 at the price of a Honda Civic.
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I think some are actually waiting for Acura to build us another Integra - not an M3. That seems within the range of both their capabilities and their current purchase prices.
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rev2damoon
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Hondarulez wrote:
notyper wrote:
Shorter danielgr:
"If you don't like what Honda has, just go away and let the rest of us keep pretending everything is ok, always has been ok, and always will be ok."
If Honda doesn't make a sports car, its because its not their core (never mind that the S-car has been around a long time in various forms, or that the NSX and S2000 were among the best _ever_ seen in their class, and remain outstanding even today).
If Honda neuters their suspension designs, its ok because the rest of the competition is doing it, and hey, they still handle all right.
If Honda neuters the K-series, its all for the best because emissions and fuel economy are more important, and hey, its still a 200 hp engine.
If Honda sticks with an ancient 5AT for years after everyone else moves to 6+ speeds, its ok, because at least its a Honda proprietary design. That's much better than improving performance and economy with more speeds.
Right? Right?
Its always ok if Honda dumbs down to match the competition, and its also ok if they don't follow the competition on improvements. Notice a trend? Its ok to be worse, whether you're following or not.
Of course, some will say, it's all part of a greater plan, we just can't see it yet. Honda is playing the long game and it will pay off in the end. Seems to me that Toyota became a giant by going all beige and even they've realized that's a mistake. Only problem is that Honda doesn't have their resources nor will they ever be as big - so why do they want to go down that road?
SC
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Huh?
I don't think danielgr is telling people to pretend Honda is doing everything ok. He's telling people to buy other products, so Honda will realize that they are not making products that Honda enthusiasts want...no? That way, we can get the real K20 back, we can get the good suspension back, we can get new trannies, etc. I think that's daniel's point.
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No, that is NOT his point. He'd like you to think it is, but it isn't.
And here's a thought. We (enthusiats) bought the "real K20" in droves. Therefore, Honda did not need to neuter it for lack of sales. Any notion that Honda is cutting and neutering all their sport offerings because enthusiast don't/didn't buy them needs to stop right now. It is BS, pure BS. Lack of sales is not the reason. Likewise, the emmissions crap is also another easy excuse to make. THAT notion has been debunked many times, since other automakers are doing what Honda is apparently utterly incapable of doing which is make high performance engines meet emmissions regs with no compromise. It's not slow sales and it's not emmissions. So, what is the reason? I like to call it "Toyotaism".
Build it right, update it right and enthusiasts will buy it. History proves this.
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330R
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Succinct and true, rev2damoon.
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DrWhiner
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integrator wrote:
dominik331 wrote:
Stop waiting for Acura to build you an M3 at the price of a Honda Civic.
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I think some are actually waiting for Acura to build us another Integra - not an M3. That seems within the range of both their capabilities and their current purchase prices.
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Unfortunately your grand plan goes against the realm of current JPY ex. rate.
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330R
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DrWhiner wrote:
Unfortunately your grand plan goes against the realm of current JPY ex. rate.
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His grand plan is better than Acura's lackluster one. If they can build the Civic-based ILX in Indiana, they can build a Civic-based Integra in Indiana. While I and perhaps some others would prefer a Suzuka-built Integra, people do acknowledge the realities of the marketplace. Yeah, they do. Again, It's not unreasonable to ask for one exciting product our favorite car company. And again, no one is asking for M3 performance at Civic prices. That is so tired. (I know you didn't say that).
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onetyme_sam
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A lot of people are still on here in hopes that honda will maybe bring some soul into a new vehicle. something that is reminiscing of the type r,si, nsx, even the s2000 days and can connect with the driver. For all the patriotic people on here who believe that this is what is best is living in a dream. toyota has trumped honda's hybrid and even built a super car. lambo, ferrari, porsche, konigsegg all still are building supercars. nissan still builds the gtr so honda can't blame the HSV on emissions. (i still think the hsv is looks far superior than the nsx)
honda was the leader in the 90s now is back in the pack because they wont take the leap of faith. why build a 6sp tranny when they have 5sp with grade logic. who wants to hear and feel those gears change? Who wants direct injection? are stuff is still good enough. lets just try to be tier 1 with some compromises but still actually tier 2. notice how acura will try to compare themselves to german rivals and lexus but everyone compares them to buick.
I am sure the biased honda fan boys call me a troll among a few others because i do say some negative things about honda and voice my opinion because honda is not the only car company that can make great advancements. i can say that i have driven many of those cars that had soul and owned a few and still own some. (S2000 and TSX)
For all you boys who believe in trolls, i will tell you they don't exist. they exist in fantasy wizards and warriors fairy worlds. Which means you guys are just need to wake up and come back to the real world.
Anyone who uses the word "TROLL" reinforces my thinking that you are all still locked in some fantasy pipe dream with honda.
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NickDC5
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Still waiting for a rear-drive Honda sports car...
I just don't see it happening anymore. And if they do, I assume it'd be underpowered. :(
I had a deposit down on an FR-S back in February but got a different RWD car instead because I didn't want to go backwards in power.
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DCR
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NickDC5 wrote:
Still waiting for a rear-drive Honda sports car...
I just don't see it happening anymore. And if they do, I assume it'd be underpowered. :(
I had a deposit down on an FR-S back in February but got a different RWD car instead because I didn't want to go backwards in power.
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I'm right at home with the 200.
Power isn't everything, and Honda ownership had taught me that well.
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superchg2
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DCR wrote:
NickDC5 wrote:
Still waiting for a rear-drive Honda sports car...
I just don't see it happening anymore. And if they do, I assume it'd be underpowered. :(
I had a deposit down on an FR-S back in February but got a different RWD car instead because I didn't want to go backwards in power.
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I'm right at home with the 200.
Power isn't everything, and Honda ownership had taught me that well.
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Almost as much as 2 hybrid's.
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THX17201
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superchg2 wrote:
DCR wrote:
NickDC5 wrote:
Still waiting for a rear-drive Honda sports car...
I just don't see it happening anymore. And if they do, I assume it'd be underpowered. :(
I had a deposit down on an FR-S back in February but got a different RWD car instead because I didn't want to go backwards in power.
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I'm right at home with the 200.
Power isn't everything, and Honda ownership had taught me that well.
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Almost as much as 2 hybrid's.
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Yup, he will have almost 2 ILX Hybrids!
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owequitit
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Hondarulez wrote:
notyper wrote:
Shorter danielgr:
"If you don't like what Honda has, just go away and let the rest of us keep pretending everything is ok, always has been ok, and always will be ok."
If Honda doesn't make a sports car, its because its not their core (never mind that the S-car has been around a long time in various forms, or that the NSX and S2000 were among the best _ever_ seen in their class, and remain outstanding even today).
If Honda neuters their suspension designs, its ok because the rest of the competition is doing it, and hey, they still handle all right.
If Honda neuters the K-series, its all for the best because emissions and fuel economy are more important, and hey, its still a 200 hp engine.
If Honda sticks with an ancient 5AT for years after everyone else moves to 6+ speeds, its ok, because at least its a Honda proprietary design. That's much better than improving performance and economy with more speeds.
Right? Right?
Its always ok if Honda dumbs down to match the competition, and its also ok if they don't follow the competition on improvements. Notice a trend? Its ok to be worse, whether you're following or not.
Of course, some will say, it's all part of a greater plan, we just can't see it yet. Honda is playing the long game and it will pay off in the end. Seems to me that Toyota became a giant by going all beige and even they've realized that's a mistake. Only problem is that Honda doesn't have their resources nor will they ever be as big - so why do they want to go down that road?
SC
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Huh?
I don't think danielgr is telling people to pretend Honda is doing everything ok. He's telling people to buy other products, so Honda will realize that they are not making products that Honda enthusiasts want...no? That way, we can get the real K20 back, we can get the good suspension back, we can get new trannies, etc. I think that's daniel's point.
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How much market share does Honda have to lose before it is reasonable to expect them to act?
The fundamental problem with Daniel's post (as per usual) is that he is completely disconnected from reality. He believes himself to be some sort of savant because he lives in Japan and can post links from Honda's own press materials. The problem is that he has a euro-centric, narrow-minded and fabricated reality that he uses to attempt to speak for everyone else in the world, as if he is both capable and empowered to do so.
However, here is where his last post falls flat on its face:
1) Honda has been losing sales for years. GM, Ford, Chrysler, and mostly the Koreans didn't manufacture customers out of thin air. They ARE gaining market share, and in many circles it is coming from Honda/Toyota. People can blame the tsunami all they want, but the reality is that enthusiasts were leaving Honda as early as 2001 (when the Civic/Integra switched to front strut suspension) and they were taking their recommended sales with them.
2) You don't hear about other people buying other cars because once they buy the new car, there is no need to report on it. Not only are they likely to not post in as much, but they are more likely to realize that Honda hasn't been giving them what they wanted for a long time, which merely serves to exacerbate point #1.
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owequitit
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danielgr wrote:
jero wrote:
But, but, Honda doesn't need to make a car like this!! Who wants a RWD small 2 seater with jump seats? Who wants a non hybrid sports car? Who wants positive press and product buzz?!
[...] |
- If you guys want something like that you should buy it, it's the only way you have a remote chance of Honda doing it. So far though it seems that we only have one FR-S project from DCR; you guys really need to keep more coming !
- The rationale of your post isn't really very "Honda-like". For as long as I can remember Honda's special cars have never been engineered nor built to become sales hits. For this kind of product Honda has always done "whatever they wanted to do", whatever they felt was "right" or "best". You still have people in this board claiming that the new RL will be a failure because it doesn't have true V8 power, and that "Honda will never learn"; I guess the point is that Honda keeps doing "whatever they want"... There will always be people that like Hondas, and those that don't. It does seem though that the number of people liking them keeps increasing year after year...
Back in the time of the raw TypeR's all of them were abundantly outsold by turbocharged and large engine alternatives and more refined cars, and that doesn't mean Honda "should do it". There had always been RWD competitors, and Honda fans were those claiming that a good Honda FWD car could best any RWD car you throw at it anytime. Now, I'm talking about "Honda enthusiasts" though... of which it seems there are not so many left around.
With time I'm starting to think that maybe there were never so many of them. Just a few folks that didn't have the money to afford "real sports cars" and spent their time pretending their cheap high reving tuned FWD ones were "better", only because well, that's all they could afford to buy. With time the same people has growned up, maybe got wealthier, and now finally realized what they really want is a "real sports car", which obviously isn't Honda's core, never has been.
The younger ones, those that should have replaced the elders are simply looking somewhere else to span their enthusiasm.
Either way, I really hope Honda does something to address TOV hunger, if only so that we can have a little bit of peace on the board and less people trashing other people on an hourly basis...
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1) The RL will likely be a failure. 370HP puts it down AT LEAST 50 HP compared to all of its competition. That makes it slower. Just like the current RL. It might have more interior space, but we will have to see how it stacks up against other rivals.
2) The rationale of his post is correct, and he HAS said he moved on. That said, I can think of about half a dozen users on here that have moved on or are seriously thinking about moving on. They used to post frequently. They don't post much now. I personally passed on buying a new Honda, and we may pass on buying another this year. We have not only eagerly bought all of our new Honda's, but we always wished for the latest. That is largely no longer the case...
3) People used to buy those "high reving tuned FWD" because they were a ton of fun to drive, and they allowed you to NOT have to deal with all of the B.S. of owning a German or American "fun" car. Ironically, you blast those consumers, their cars, and their niches, but then if you compare BRZ/FRS sales to your beloved CR-Z, you can see that it is getting the ever loving shit stomped out of it. Why? Because people actually WANT the Toyobaru twins.
Your assertion about the Type R's is just asinine. They were outsold by all of those other cars largely because of limited production, not limited demand. But you can't talk about that because it shoots you in the foot doesn't it? Also, regardless of sales of the actual Type R's (and the NSX/S2K for that matter), the cold, hard, sad reality for you is that those few Type R's sold a TON of Integras, Si's and Preludes. But you can't mention that either.
4) If you don't like the way people treat others around here, why don't you leave, and take your condescending, snide, backhanded attacks and insults with you? You are not required to stay here, and if you don't like the way TOV has become, then you should practice your own sage advice and vote with your feet.
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jero
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Excellent post owe...
I wanted a early 90s Civic Si hatch so bad when I turned 16, but used ones were selling for more than new ones. I bought a Nissan Pulsar SE manual with the DOHC engine.
I so dearly wanted a ITR back in 98, but the dealers were getting MSRP +$5,000 on every one. So I bought a brand new 98 GSR and swapped a ITR suspension and Comptech'd it intake to exhaust tip.
I sold it for a 2003 (final year 9k redline) S2000 because the RSX-S really didn't move the bar up much from the GSR IMO, and I had a gut feeling that the AP1 S2000 would be the pinnacle of Honda racing purity.
Next year my S2000 turns 10 years old... and Honda has jack crap outside of a Civic for anyone that wants a lick of tossable performance. (The accord is a house boat, so spare me that one.)
Sometimes I think I'm the only one on this friggin site that could care less about MPGs and cares more about performance and sewing machine screaming engines!
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superchg2
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danielgr wrote:
Either way, I really hope Honda does something to address TOV hunger, if only so that we can have a little bit of peace on the board and less people trashing other people on an hourly basis...
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I really don't see so much of this people trashing that you are referring to danielgr, but of course there is frustration that Honda seems to have fallen behind recently.
I guess if you are uncomfortable with a little lively discussion you can always move on!
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owequitit
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jero wrote:
Excellent post owe...
I wanted a early 90s Civic Si hatch so bad when I turned 16, but used ones were selling for more than new ones. I bought a Nissan Pulsar SE manual with the DOHC engine.
I so dearly wanted a ITR back in 98, but the dealers were getting MSRP +$5,000 on every one. So I bought a brand new 98 GSR and swapped a ITR suspension and Comptech'd it intake to exhaust tip.
I sold it for a 2003 (final year 9k redline) S2000 because the RSX-S really didn't move the bar up much from the GSR IMO, and I had a gut feeling that the AP1 S2000 would be the pinnacle of Honda racing purity.
Next year my S2000 turns 10 years old... and Honda has jack crap outside of a Civic for anyone that wants a lick of tossable performance. (The accord is a house boat, so spare me that one.)
Sometimes I think I'm the only one on this friggin site that could care less about MPGs and cares more about performance and sewing machine screaming engines!
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Consider that the new version of "good business" that is being proselytised by this group of people is cars like the ZDX, CR-Z, Element, Insight, RL, Ridgeline, ILX, etc (none of which are meeting goals in Honda's largest and most profitable market). These are cars that can't hardly muster 20K sales a year among them, and Honda USED to cancel cars like the Prelude because they were barely selling 20K units per year. Pretty sure one loss leading, Accord derived Prelude makes more sense at 20K per year than 8 vehicles that can't even do that volume.
So on the one hand, the OLD Honda wouldn't tolerate a product that sold less than the target, and now we have a literal plethora of them (they actually outnumber Honda's "good" selling product...).
Oh yeah, but it is OK, because the only thing that matters is not burning CO2. Nevermind all of the other crap, or the cold hard fact that hybrids suck and aren't that environmentally friendly to begin with. None of that matters, because we are chasing an indoctrinated religion of "man made" global warming. It is tantamount to religious zealots that exterminate anyone that doesn't hold the same set of core values. Daniel spends his entire existence here trying to hush the naysayers and justify away Honda's bad behavior because the only thing he cares about is CO2 reduction (which he can't argue for against a well thought out dissenting opinion) and then proceeds to tell us to "leave" because we aren't Honda's "core" customer, even though there are very CLEARLY more of us than there are of him... Not to mention that Honda USED to provide all of what we wanted AND managed to be pretty green doing it. Now all we get are excuses, lame product and brow beating by the throngs of mindless greenies. P.S. While this may be "opinion" in regards to how many of whom exist, I would say it is a pretty substantiated one considering how their "normal" product sells relative to the "green" product...
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Nick GravesX
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jero wrote:
Excellent post owe...
I wanted a early 90s Civic Si hatch so bad when I turned 16, but used ones were selling for more than new ones. I bought a Nissan Pulsar SE manual with the DOHC engine.
I so dearly wanted a ITR back in 98, but the dealers were getting MSRP +$5,000 on every one. So I bought a brand new 98 GSR and swapped a ITR suspension and Comptech'd it intake to exhaust tip.
I sold it for a 2003 (final year 9k redline) S2000 because the RSX-S really didn't move the bar up much from the GSR IMO, and I had a gut feeling that the AP1 S2000 would be the pinnacle of Honda racing purity.
Next year my S2000 turns 10 years old... and Honda has jack crap outside of a Civic for anyone that wants a lick of tossable performance. (The accord is a house boat, so spare me that one.)
Sometimes I think I'm the only one on this friggin site that could care less about MPGs and cares more about performance and sewing machine screaming engines!
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You are not alone...
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330R
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You two are not alone...
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NSXforever
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egads that made that Michael Jackson song pop in my head lol
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