iahs2k
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This will surely save Honda. "NOT". I feel another strong sense of fail.
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av911
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What makes you think Honda's doing this to "save itself"? You probably bitched about the Clarity, too.
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montechester
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I wasn't aware Honda needed "saving"? Yes, there are issues, as with EVERY car company these days, but Honda is healthy and working on those issues. There are other companies in far worse shape. Given all the setbacks Honda has had to deal with over the last few years, I think the company is doing quit well.
If you aren't excited by applications of new technology, then you might be in the wrong place.
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dominik331
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I don't know what's more amusing. The fact the this troll is still allowed to post here or that people fall for his game?
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Chocs
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Yeah, I was hoping this thread would get the silent treatment.
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iahs2k
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dominik331 wrote:
I don't know what's more amusing. The fact the this troll is still allowed to post here or that people fall for his game?
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What amazes me with some people is that they label someone a "troll" because their viewpoint differs from theirs. Having been exclusively a HONDA AUTOMOBILE owner since '97, I think my loyalty to this point is without question. Presently I am disgusted with Honda management. Honda is now more "Toyota" than toyota. Honda is so conservative as to make Toyota appear a rebel. Honda needs to make EXCITING cars again. If you can't understand that cars such as: ILX, Crosstour, CR-Zzzz, Ridgeline, Element, ZDX offer nothing for Honda enthusiasts then you are an imbecile. Enthusiast cars generate buzz and bring people into dealerships. Honda has NO enthusiast cars.
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saitamahonda
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What amazes me is that a Honda enthusiast has the audacity to say what Honda should do or shouldn't. You're one kind of Honda enthusiast, there are Honda hybrid enthusiasts, truck enthusiasts, motorcycle enthusiasts, airplane enthusiasts, sport utility enthusiasts, and non car enthusiasts who are architecture enthusiasts, green movement enthusiasts, science enthusiasts and so on.
The civic si is a car enthusiast's car. The bones of every honda compact is a good base for the ff aftermarket and enthusiast can build upon. Honda has plenty of great used cars that people continue to buy. The s2000 and NSX, while some considered them sales failures, still have darn good resale value. The used car market IS 3x that of new cars in terms of vehicles sold.
I've been a fan of Honda since 1986, a Honda enthusiast not by the way of a civic or crx, but through an Englishman named Nigel Mansell in his Williams Honda FW11B turbo, and his rivalry with teammate Nelson Piquet. The NSX was a blasphemy to many diehard ff civic fans for being rwd, but it was a commemoration for Hondas success in formula one. The S2000 too was a commemoration car for honda/Motorsport fans of Honda, not particularly for ff car enthusiasts. And I'm always in the market for a pre-owned s2000/NSX.
I take it you don't follow professional motorsports like British touring cup, Indy, Super GT 500, all of which Honda is a significant contributor and leader in. I was especially happy to see Malaysia's supergt fans who own Honda cr-zs show their modified cars lining up on the front straight of the Sepang International raceway and doing laps around it at the 2012 super gt rd.3 event earlier this month.
So, your view that there are no enthusiast cars is false. You're just no longer a Honda enthusiast :(. I've always been a fan of Hondas tenacity and grit to strive for its dreams, not popularity.
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iahs2k
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Great ..... Honda is into motorsports.....make something A) I can buy; and B) I want to buy.
Honda has become a flavor of one....vanilla.
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HONDA AFVM
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saitamahonda wrote:
What amazes me is that a Honda enthusiast has the audacity to say what Honda should do or shouldn't. You're one kind of Honda enthusiast, there are Honda hybrid enthusiasts, truck enthusiasts, motorcycle enthusiasts, airplane enthusiasts, sport utility enthusiasts, and non car enthusiasts who are architecture enthusiasts, green movement enthusiasts, science enthusiasts and so on.
The civic si is a car enthusiast's car. The bones of every honda compact is a good base for the ff aftermarket and enthusiast can build upon. Honda has plenty of great used cars that people continue to buy. The s2000 and NSX, while some considered them sales failures, still have darn good resale value. The used car market IS 3x that of new cars in terms of vehicles sold.
I've been a fan of Honda since 1986, a Honda enthusiast not by the way of a civic or crx, but through an Englishman named Nigel Mansell in his Williams Honda FW11B turbo, and his rivalry with teammate Nelson Piquet. The NSX was a blasphemy to many diehard ff civic fans for being rwd, but it was a commemoration for Hondas success in formula one. The S2000 too was a commemoration car for honda/Motorsport fans of Honda, not particularly for ff car enthusiasts. And I'm always in the market for a pre-owned s2000/NSX.
I take it you don't follow professional motorsports like British touring cup, Indy, Super GT 500, all of which Honda is a significant contributor and leader in. I was especially happy to see Malaysia's supergt fans who own Honda cr-zs show their modified cars lining up on the front straight of the Sepang International raceway and doing laps around it at the 2012 super gt rd.3 event earlier this month.
So, your view that there are no enthusiast cars is false. You're just no longer a Honda enthusiast :(. I've always been a fan of Hondas tenacity and grit to strive for its dreams, not popularity.
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saitamahonda...........
WOW! Spoken like a TRUE Honda man........I can't add anything to that. Great post, agree 100%.....See my "EV" post on my feelings on Electric cars.....
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xBeastx
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saitamahonda wrote:
What amazes me is that a Honda enthusiast has the audacity to say what Honda should do or shouldn't. You're one kind of Honda enthusiast, there are Honda hybrid enthusiasts, truck enthusiasts, motorcycle enthusiasts, airplane enthusiasts, sport utility enthusiasts, and non car enthusiasts who are architecture enthusiasts, green movement enthusiasts, science enthusiasts and so on.
The civic si is a car enthusiast's car. The bones of every honda compact is a good base for the ff aftermarket and enthusiast can build upon. Honda has plenty of great used cars that people continue to buy. The s2000 and NSX, while some considered them sales failures, still have darn good resale value. The used car market IS 3x that of new cars in terms of vehicles sold.
I've been a fan of Honda since 1986, a Honda enthusiast not by the way of a civic or crx, but through an Englishman named Nigel Mansell in his Williams Honda FW11B turbo, and his rivalry with teammate Nelson Piquet. The NSX was a blasphemy to many diehard ff civic fans for being rwd, but it was a commemoration for Hondas success in formula one. The S2000 too was a commemoration car for honda/Motorsport fans of Honda, not particularly for ff car enthusiasts. And I'm always in the market for a pre-owned s2000/NSX.
I take it you don't follow professional motorsports like British touring cup, Indy, Super GT 500, all of which Honda is a significant contributor and leader in. I was especially happy to see Malaysia's supergt fans who own Honda cr-zs show their modified cars lining up on the front straight of the Sepang International raceway and doing laps around it at the 2012 super gt rd.3 event earlier this month.
So, your view that there are no enthusiast cars is false. You're just no longer a Honda enthusiast :(. I've always been a fan of Hondas tenacity and grit to strive for its dreams, not popularity.
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That was amazing. Well said.
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DCR
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saitamahonda wrote:
What amazes me is that a Honda enthusiast has the audacity to say what Honda should do or shouldn't. You're one kind of Honda enthusiast, there are Honda hybrid enthusiasts, truck enthusiasts, motorcycle enthusiasts, airplane enthusiasts, sport utility enthusiasts, and non car enthusiasts who are architecture enthusiasts, green movement enthusiasts, science enthusiasts and so on.
The civic si is a car enthusiast's car. The bones of every honda compact is a good base for the ff aftermarket and enthusiast can build upon. Honda has plenty of great used cars that people continue to buy. The s2000 and NSX, while some considered them sales failures, still have darn good resale value. The used car market IS 3x that of new cars in terms of vehicles sold.
I've been a fan of Honda since 1986, a Honda enthusiast not by the way of a civic or crx, but through an Englishman named Nigel Mansell in his Williams Honda FW11B turbo, and his rivalry with teammate Nelson Piquet. The NSX was a blasphemy to many diehard ff civic fans for being rwd, but it was a commemoration for Hondas success in formula one. The S2000 too was a commemoration car for honda/Motorsport fans of Honda, not particularly for ff car enthusiasts. And I'm always in the market for a pre-owned s2000/NSX.
I take it you don't follow professional motorsports like British touring cup, Indy, Super GT 500, all of which Honda is a significant contributor and leader in. I was especially happy to see Malaysia's supergt fans who own Honda cr-zs show their modified cars lining up on the front straight of the Sepang International raceway and doing laps around it at the 2012 super gt rd.3 event earlier this month.
So, your view that there are no enthusiast cars is false. You're just no longer a Honda enthusiast :(. I've always been a fan of Hondas tenacity and grit to strive for its dreams, not popularity.
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Dangerous, yet very predictable, way of thinking.
So, he has the audacity to say what Honda should or shouldn't do, and you have the audacity to tell him what he is or isn't?
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FiSH-Chan
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DCR wrote:
So, he has the audacity to say what Honda should or shouldn't do, and you have the audacity to tell him what he is or isn't? |
Sounds familiar to a recent CVT thread, don't you think?
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montechester
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DCR wrote:
Dangerous, yet very predictable, way of thinking.
So, he has the audacity to say what Honda should or shouldn't do, and you have the audacity to tell him what he is or isn't?
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Let me get this straight. It's OK for one person to say what Honda is to EVERYONE else, but it's not OK for another person to point out that they don't speak for ALL Honda enthusiasts? Right...
So, if you no longer like what a company makes, sells, or plans to sell, then you are by definition, no longer an ENTHUSIAST of said company. Get it? Seems pretty clear to me.
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montechester
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iahs2k wrote:
What amazes me with some people is that they label someone a "troll" because their viewpoint differs from theirs. Having been exclusively a HONDA AUTOMOBILE owner since '97, I think my loyalty to this point is without question. Presently I am disgusted with Honda management. Honda is now more "Toyota" than toyota. Honda is so conservative as to make Toyota appear a rebel. Honda needs to make EXCITING cars again. If you can't understand that cars such as: ILX, Crosstour, CR-Zzzz, Ridgeline, Element, ZDX offer nothing for Honda enthusiasts then you are an imbecile. Enthusiast cars generate buzz and bring people cnto dealerships. Honda has NO enthusiast cars.
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Oh, and you don't earn the TROLL label from ONE post. It must be earned over time, IMO. And it doesn't come from having a differing opinion either. Substantiated, thought out, opinions with some back up are NOT TROLL territory. Repeated, One or 2 sentence, blanket, negative statements, with no facts, examples, reasoning, or even personal back story to lend substance WILL earn the TROLL label, IMO.
If the OP has qualified to wear that dubious crown, then it is on them make others believe they aren't simply trying to stir up stuff for the sake of stirring it up by showing some thought goes in to their posts. I see no evidence of that here, or in others of theirs I've read recently.
Now to your points... If you can drive an Odyssey, then drive the direct competition, and tell me the Odyssey isn't the best handling, most sporting, fun to drive vehicle in its class for the money spent, I'd be very surprised. Same for the Ridgeline, Fit, Civic Si, Accord V6, TSX, TL, CRZ, and even the much maligned Crosstour makes the Venza feel like a wallowing pig by comparison.
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DCR
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montechester wrote:
DCR wrote:
Dangerous, yet very predictable, way of thinking.
So, he has the audacity to say what Honda should or shouldn't do, and you have the audacity to tell him what he is or isn't?
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Let me get this straight. It's OK for one person to say what Honda is to EVERYONE else, but it's not OK for another person to point out that they don't speak for ALL Honda enthusiasts? Right...
So, if you no longer like what a company makes, sells, or plans to sell, then you are by definition, no longer an ENTHUSIAST of said company. Get it? Seems pretty clear to me.
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You've got the definition fucked up, because you all forget where you are.
Get it?
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dominik331
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DCR wrote:
montechester wrote:
DCR wrote:
Dangerous, yet very predictable, way of thinking.
So, he has the audacity to say what Honda should or shouldn't do, and you have the audacity to tell him what he is or isn't?
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Let me get this straight. It's OK for one person to say what Honda is to EVERYONE else, but it's not OK for another person to point out that they don't speak for ALL Honda enthusiasts? Right...
So, if you no longer like what a company makes, sells, or plans to sell, then you are by definition, no longer an ENTHUSIAST of said company. Get it? Seems pretty clear to me.
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You've got the definition fucked up, because you all forget where you are.
Get it?
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I don't get it (your post). SO that we are on the same page, would you mind explaining it?
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montechester
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DCR wrote:
You've got the definition fucked up, because you all forget where you are.
Get it?
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1st, your profane language is uncalled for. If you can't express your thoughts without profanity, then an adult discussion is not possible.
2nd, let me explain a bit more WHAT "I get". I'm sure it differs from your opinion of reality.
People and companies grow through time, but they don't always grow in the same areas or with similar priorities. Many older fans here became involved with their first Honda because it was an affordable used car in the 80's with a "fun to drive" personality, that the aftermarket supported, allowing them to personalize their rather pedestrian Civc (usually) into something MORE than it was when it left the factory. I hear noise from this group that often revolves around memories of those 80's-90's cars that is more than a little rose colored. Let's face it, those cars had their charms, but they were simple, lacked refinement, had almost none of the modern features demanded in new cars today, and were loud and coarse compared to the most mediocre compact car of 2012. I still own a 1997 Civic Si and love it, but even with substantial upgrades in many areas, it just doesn't compare to a new Si in nearly any way, but it still has appeal for me though it's hard to explain to others exactly why.
Other fans came along a bit later, after Honda and Acura had started developing sportier cars, closer to what those older fans were "building" with aftermarket help, that were available right off the showroom floor. From this group, I hear complaints about the excess weight of current offerings compared to the cars they loved. The reasons why new cars weigh so much more and are so much larger are well documented. Customer feature & space demands, occupant protection requirements, crash compatibility, pedestrian impact, emissions controls, and many other things conspired to grow cars to their current weight. The next 20 years will see big gains in reducing the last 20 years of bloat, but it won't come quickly or cheaply.
Still other fans came along a bit later, after the NSX and S2000 were on the scene. This last group is where I hear the most disgruntled noises from. Their expectation was that the "glory days" of rear wheel drive Honda sports cars would never end, or at least pause for a while. Unfortunately, economic, market (competition), and regulatory pressures have conspired to change Hondas focus for the near term. Add to that a couple major natural disasters, and Honda has been under tremendous pressure to quickly move forward in areas that aren't very interesting to many traditional enthusiasts. This, however, will generate an enthusiast base of its own, but not one some previously existing Honda fans will easily recognize.
I believe this "drought" period is temporary and Honda will bring back some of the performance cars we ALL want to see developed further, in one form or another. When this will happen beyond the coming NSX is largely unknown right now. There is much left to do in areas being forced on Honda, and there are only so many resources available, so I and other more pragmatic fans will just have be patient.
It seems the most recent generation of enthusiasts have very little to no brand loyalty. I think the fact that so many companies make good cars these days is largely responsible for this, but whatever the reasons, it makes these consumers an extremely difficult target to hit. Ask Scion how hard it is to build a loyal base of entry level enthusiasts these days.
Then there is the largest, most important, and least vocal group of Honda fans that have always existed. The group that appreciates the whole Honda experience of high quality, long term durability, driving feel, bang for the buck, and closely related resale value. This group seems fairly happy with the current state of things and likely will continue to be, I hope, because if Honda looses THIS group, the rest of us have no hope of getting what we want.
For those Honda enthusiasts that decide they cannot wait to see what the future brings, then that is their choice and I respect it. The pace of change can be agonizingly slow or painfully quick. Right now we have both working at the same time on different aspects of the industry.
Many of these changes are causing short term pain, but should create long term opportunity for enthusiasts given a little time for things to develop. I like where Honda is positioning itself to be when the full impact of the coming EPA/MPG requirements is felt. I feel other companies are expecting a reprieve from these new requirements from the next Presidential administration, but I don't think that is going to happen this time as it has in decades past. Time will tell.
To wrap things up, I'll repeat what I've said many times before. If people really want any company to take their complaints seriously, terse, profane, and juvenile rants, won't get it done. Those will be ignored. Take a few minutes to compose your thoughts and put them in a reasonable, comprehensible form that any thoughtful human is capable of understanding. That's your best chance of being seen as a real customer with a real issue and not some ignorant child with too much spare time and no grasp on reality.
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DCR
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I'll get back to you later.
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TXsalesguy
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DCR wrote:
I'll get back to you later.
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You need a lot of time to top what Montechester wrote. I'm not holding my breath....
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TXsalesguy
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Saitama and Monte...
Thank you so much, informative, truthful, excellent perspective. We should have to pay for such good stuff.
I sell Hondas because I have owned 9 in my lifetime. When I made a decision to buy something else, I always regretted it. From the used 1981 Accord Hatchback to my current 2011 Accord EXL V6, I have loved them all, but each is better than the former. As much as the current Accord is maligned, I absolutely love it.
Excited to be selling Honda now more than at anytime in history. Last year was a tough one, this year is MUCH better from the sales side and looking good in the days ahead.
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DCR
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montechester wrote:
1st, your profane language is uncalled for. If you can't express your thoughts without profanity, then an adult discussion is not possible.
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Grow a thicker skin? You can't tell me what to write, or how to write, so let's cut that now. It isn't going to change, nor will you change it.
2nd, let me explain a bit more WHAT "I get". I'm sure it differs from your opinion of reality.
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...which differs from my opinion of reality. You aren't some authority, which means what you "get" means exactly dick to me.
People and companies grow through time, but they don't always grow in the same areas or with similar priorities. Many older fans here became involved with their first Honda because it was an affordable used car in the 80's with a "fun to drive" personality, that the aftermarket supported, allowing them to personalize their rather pedestrian Civc (usually) into something MORE than it was when it left the factory. I hear noise from this group that often revolves around memories of those 80's-90's cars that is more than a little rose colored. Let's face it, those cars had their charms, but they were simple, lacked refinement, had almost none of the modern features demanded in new cars today, and were loud and coarse compared to the most mediocre compact car of 2012. I still own a 1997 Civic Si and love it, but even with substantial upgrades in many areas, it just doesn't compare to a new Si in nearly any way, but it still has appeal for me though it's hard to explain to others exactly why.
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You must be Canadian, so you own a 1997 EX. Big deal...what "substantial upgrades" do you have?
Yet, that appeal you refer to, the one that you can't explain, is EXACTLY WHAT I am talking about, yet...you don't get it? What about the enthusiast group that entered the Honda family with the 2006+ Si? Not everyone was around in the 80-90's like we were, and I see plenty of kids running around in these cars who seem to be pretty tuned in to what they like.
My memories of my past Honda vehicles over the last 21 years certainly aren't viewed through rose-colored glasses. That is an excuse conjured for me to accept what Honda no longer does, and I won't. Unlike you, I don't fall face-first in the plate of shit they are feeding.
Are you going to generalize the "people" and "company" to support this point? Pretty convenient. Why don't we talk about current Honda, and the majority of the people here who actually CARE about the performance models Honda no longer builds? That is what this site was built on, and somehow we've been swamped by the greenwash and apologists, and I have to sit here and defend a post about enjoying that aspect?
Other fans came along a bit later, after Honda and Acura had started developing sportier cars, closer to what those older fans were "building" with aftermarket help, that were available right off the showroom floor. From this group, I hear complaints about the excess weight of current offerings compared to the cars they loved. The reasons why new cars weigh so much more and are so much larger are well documented. Customer feature & space demands, occupant protection requirements, crash compatibility, pedestrian impact, emissions controls, and many other things conspired to grow cars to their current weight. The next 20 years will see big gains in reducing the last 20 years of bloat, but it won't come quickly or cheaply.
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Really? You don't say. In order to fluff your post, I don't need common knowledge to wade through.
Still other fans came along a bit later, after the NSX and S2000 were on the scene. This last group is where I hear the most disgruntled noises from. Their expectation was that the "glory days" of rear wheel drive Honda sports cars would never end, or at least pause for a while. Unfortunately, economic, market (competition), and regulatory pressures have conspired to change Hondas focus for the near term. Add to that a couple major natural disasters, and Honda has been under tremendous pressure to quickly move forward in areas that aren't very interesting to many traditional enthusiasts. This, however, will generate an enthusiast base of its own, but not one some previously existing Honda fans will easily recognize.
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I don't think you are really seeing a ton of complaining about the NSX and S2000 platforms ending, and putting words in mouth isn't going to help. It is confusing why they would let established nameplates die without much refresh, especially given the living legend status and halo effect these cars brought. You are seeing complaints because ALL performance is gone. All of it. There is no preservation of heritage, reputation or name on the street nor in the showroom. You can't walk in the dealer and buy a proper performance model unless you are willing to change badges. Why? Damn near everyone else seems to be able to preserve this heritage.
I believe this "drought" period is temporary and Honda will bring back some of the performance cars we ALL want to see developed further, in one form or another. When this will happen beyond the coming NSX is largely unknown right now. There is much left to do in areas being forced on Honda, and there are only so many resources available, so I and other more pragmatic fans will just have be patient.
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In the near term, you've got the NSX, and by near, I mean 2015+. The 2012 Si will rot on the vine for another 5 years, the CR-Z has no promised upgrade. The V6 Accord (having owned one) is a nice car, but pretty big, and no LSD there either, so it was less than confidence inspiring.
I don't want hope, I don't want to wait, I don't want to be patient when I live once...I want them to announce and build something inspiring. Now.
It seems the most recent generation of enthusiasts have very little to no brand loyalty. I think the fact that so many companies make good cars these days is largely responsible for this, but whatever the reasons, it makes these consumers an extremely difficult target to hit. Ask Scion how hard it is to build a loyal base of entry level enthusiasts these days.
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Enthusiasts have a "recent generation"? You are dead wrong here, as DRIVING enthusiasts never change. A company can sure change what it offers, but you won't entertain that as a valid reason for an enthusiast leaving the brand. Nope, must be the person changing values and not the company. Oh, that's right...that is a company that is "growing".
I'll ask my Scion dealer if they are having a problem gaining enthusiasts once I pick up my FR-S.
Then there is the largest, most important, and least vocal group of Honda fans that have always existed. The group that appreciates the whole Honda experience of high quality, long term durability, driving feel, bang for the buck, and closely related resale value. This group seems fairly happy with the current state of things and likely will continue to be, I hope, because if Honda looses THIS group, the rest of us have no hope of getting what we want.
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Here is the meat of the discussion.
So, this other "group", largely comprised of appliance drivers, meaning the dozens and dozens of people I have recommended Honda to in the past 21 years...the group that has always existed and will always exist?
You keep falling back on this point, but it is pointless. The group that makes up the 10-20% that built this place would like an offering as well. Why do we not matter? Why can't Honda create the bread and butter models that it always has AND cater to me at the same time? The problem may be that they think they are with things like the CR-Z...and that is a problem that runs deep.
For those Honda enthusiasts that decide they cannot wait to see what the future brings, then that is their choice and I respect it. The pace of change can be agonizingly slow or painfully quick. Right now we have both working at the same time on different aspects of the industry.
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Yeah? You don't respect that choice and you know it.
Ask Toyota about different aspects of the industry. They are kicking ass in the green scene, luxury scene and sports car scene. When you build what people want, it isn't hard. When you tell people what they should want because you are too stubborn to build what they really want, you fail.
Many of these changes are causing short term pain, but should create long term opportunity for enthusiasts given a little time for things to develop. I like where Honda is positioning itself to be when the full impact of the coming EPA/MPG requirements is felt. I feel other companies are expecting a reprieve from these new requirements from the next Presidential administration, but I don't think that is going to happen this time as it has in decades past. Time will tell.
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What long term opportunity exactly? The Earth Dreams engines sound like a snooze-fest, with certainly no performance models in line. The SH-AWD stuff hasn't trickled down, nor has that produced some amazing sporty car you know they could make. So what am I waiting for?
To wrap things up, I'll repeat what I've said many times before. If people really want any company to take their complaints seriously, terse, profane, and juvenile rants, won't get it done. Those will be ignored. Take a few minutes to compose your thoughts and put them in a reasonable, comprehensible form that any thoughtful human is capable of understanding. That's your best chance of being seen as a real customer with a real issue and not some ignorant child with too much spare time and no grasp on reality.
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Your wrap up is hardly that.
A "real customer" with a "real issue"?
If 21 years of owning Honda vehicles, namely ONLY Honda vehicles, doesn't qualify me as a real customer with a real issue, I don't know what does. You can attempt to minimize my intelligence by complaining about a few profane words, but that is the game of a simpleton. If the hammer misses the nail, I may insert some color. Deal with it.
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iahs2k
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Great post DCR. Having purchased 6 new Hondas since '97, I am disgusted at Honda's lack of virtually any enthusiast content. I enjoy my current '07 Si Sedan but I want something with MORE FREAKING POWER. Honda idiotically lets enthusiast cars whither on the vine with no performance increase. S2000 interest died because idiotically Honda didn't add to its performance or change it in any meaningful way. WAKE UP HONDA!!! Who would have thought Toyota would kick Honda's tail? Honda is not presently on my shopping list for anything. I have a strong sense of FAIL about the ILX and can't wait to see how the sales figures pan out. I look forward to say I told ya so to some of the delusional milk toasts on here. Earth deams is not the answer. Better design cars that appeal to the soul of buyers. No Honda fits that description presently. Pretty sad.
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jero
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I think it would go far for Honda to develop a new prelude. Small in size, but enough guts to hang with a Focus ST, WRX, etc...
The accord coupe is not the answer as it is a bloated pig.
200hp ITR back in 1997, still gonna have a 200hp Si in 2017. It is a joke.
Back in 1997 a Ford Escort had 110hp. A Honda Civic had 106hp. in 2012 a Civic Si has 201/170 but now you can get a Ford Focus with 252hp/270ft#. Good effort Honda! And we are stuck with that until 2017. LOL
I also find it hard to believe that Honda has no answer for the Porsche Boxster either. Those things are pushing well over $60-70k now. Acura can't come up with something that can undercut a Boxster by $20,000+ with similar performance?
Honda has lost its mojo... period.
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montechester
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DCR, glad you found the time to respond. I was worried you'd move on to your next axe grinding session/whine fest, and forget all about me. I wrote what I THINK, and what I MEAN, I don't need you to translate for me, K? You don't agree. I'm pretty sure I expected that. LOL
I'm not an authority. You are correct, for once, but I do understand a little about the auto industry and good deal more about Honda specifically. If my post seemed to indicate I "know" everything, then I apologize as that just isn't the case. In fact, every time I THINK I know something for certain about the auto industry, it seems to morph right in front of me. I was merely trying to point out that Honda "enthusiasts" are a very diverse group and that you cannot hope to represent them in any single minded direction or desire for change. It just isn't that simple.
Even the mighty Toyota, that you hold in such high esteem, has it's faults and failures. It has only been in the last 5 or so years that they have recaptured some of the "spunk" that has been missing from their appliance like lineup for decades, and I applaud their ability to do so. It wasn't easy to move out of the comfort zone Toyota/Lexus had found themselves in. Scion is still a miserable failure, but that too may yet be saved.
As far as your use of "colorful" language goes, I can only tell you how it looks from an adult, professional perspective. If you don't agree, then continue being "colorful", and risk being dismissed by those possessing a vocabulary that didn't stop growing in the 8th grade.
Next subject...
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DCR
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I would never forget about you, sweetheart, and yes, it is just that simple.
Also, it is a pity you are unable to transcend your issue with the use of letters combined in certain ways.
Something tells me you'd have to google search Allen Ginsberg.
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