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TonyEX
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I drove our spanking new Si, dark silver, 4 doors, NAVI, this AM to Torrance. 40 miles up the 405, traffic was mostly open and we stayed in the car pool lane - except when exiting to pass slow folks and then back into it.
Average speed about 80 when moving, some 65~70 and a couple of spots of stop and go.
Average fuel economy 34 mpg. No WOT, no redline, VERY green engine.
CONS
OK, the interior is underwhelming, yes. I won't call it a Nissan Sentra but it's not as nice as our '06 Civic Hybrid. I think it's a step back to two generations ago... we all got spoiled with the 8th gen.
Gauges. Too plain. The tachometer just doesn't look expensive. It looks cheap. All the dash graphics in red just don't look as good as the white displays in my 06 Civic. Too much like a Nissan.
Details. The way the AC/Fan controls LOOK are not your typical Honda. The fonts are weird. The little thumb wheels that control the side vents are dark plastic and have no white 'indicator". They feel out of place with the NAVI -which is much nicer.
Missing LED front upper cluster even though the plastic molding has a spot in there (OK, my 06 Civic didn't have that either).
Dash... hard plastics. Not bad looking but I think they'll be easy to scratch. Better than the Fit though.
HALF AND HALF
Our car is dark silver, so it looks elegant. In the lighter colors it looks a bit too "curvy".
PROS
Even when green, the K24 is a great engine in traffic. The first time I had to get out of the HOV lane to pass a slow truck I did not have lots of room to get around him. But, whereas in older cars I would have had to row down two gears to 4th, in this Si all I had to do was to punch it and that torque just picked us up 20 mph just like that... while the engine gave out a very nice gruuuuump. sound.
With all that torque, I never had to get into 1st gear even in the stop and go traffic.
When merging into the freeway at first the car just got to 80 mph with no hassle at all, in 4th gear.
SHIFTER and CLUTCH
It's a Honda.
STEERING
Pretty nice. I think it's electric huh? But I didn't feel anything weird. Anyone out there who remembers the EP3's one month acclimatization period knows what I mean. The feel was fine.
RIDE
Very good. It was rather a quiet Honda at speed. My wife and I just had a nice conversation all the way.
MID
Really nice to have up there. It's a lot easier to find it there than to look down into the lower dash (TSX) or into the center NAVI cluster (all others). I love the integration into the steering wheel. Our TSX also has this, but it takes two buttons.. one for the in dash display and another for the NAVI... the MID solves a lot of this because it's large and does a lot of things.
STEREO
No clue. We just played with the AM radio.
NAVI
I love the fact that they have incorporated traffic into the display. In some ways I prefer the Civic style NAVI with its touch screen, it just feels more direct.
FRONT SIDE WINDOWS
I know many of you complained about the demise of the front wing windows, but trust me these one work much better. In our 06 Civic there is a very large "second" A Pillar behind those little front windows so the view ahead is blocked. In this iteration, the A pillar is a single construct and there very good view ahead, on both sides, over both front windows. From an ergonomic point of view this is a very good move.
SEATS, STEERING WHEEL, SHIFT KNOB
Delicious. Simply delicious. AHM did not short shift (bad pun) there.
CONCLUSION
I think this car is almost there as a package. Its only drawbacks should be easy to fix, likely adding soft plastics (like rubberized thumb wheels to the side vent controls, nicer knobs on the AC, nicer buttons, a nicer (more mature) graphic design for the dash display and softer plastics on the top dash and side doors.
SOME OTHER THOUGHTS
The interesting part is that if AHM were to fix up the interior just a bit, take out the LSD and put in an AT5 this car would just about kill the competition. I mean, the K24 in this car, so much lighter then the TSX, makes this into a serious family car. A Civic EX-i with K24/AT5 would simply own the niche. It'd be bye bye Kim Chi, bye bye Detroit.
I wonder why Acura hobbled its ILX? It sounds like an ILX with K24/AT5 with the typical Acura goodies and handling superiority (believe me, Acura cars are really better on this than Honda cars) would also truly be an extremely strong competitor in the low 30Ks.
And, HMC needs to start thinking about a 2.2 high revying engine one of these days... just sayin'.. just for the mojo thing.
BOTTOM LINE
For the time being, we're leasing the car for one year and were planning to buy the '12 TSX wagon while we'll keep leasing Si's. The ILX is DOA because we can't get it with the K24 and NAVI and LSD....
Except that my wife pointed out that she really thinks this is a fun car to drive, much more than the TSX and that we're finally emerging for a cycle of having 'appliance' cars.
We love the car.
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s2ktaxi
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great report and similar to my perceptions when I test drove the car. When the engine is broken in, let me know what you think about the smoothness above 5k rpm. I'd consider an MMC version if they address some fo the cons including the engine mojo issue :)
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according2kev
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Nice review Tony. It's about time they delivered your car. Congrats! I'm sure you'll enjoy the Si.
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TonyEX
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according2kev wrote:
Nice review Tony. It's about time they delivered your car. Congrats! I'm sure you'll enjoy the Si.
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Thanks.... I think the Civic feels larger inside than the TSX too.
I'll check up on it.
I also want to do impressions on the TSX and the Crosstour.
I think the Crosstour is just a couple of changes away from greatness... really...
Oh, I was somewhat hesistant on praising the Si's engine... but I guess _that_ group is busy with the Toyobaru thread.
Temple of Toyobaru...
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330R
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I'm here :wavey: but nothing's changed so nothing to say about the engine, interior, steering, handling, etc.
Enjoy your Si, Tone.
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DCR
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330R wrote:
I'm here :wavey: but nothing's changed so nothing to say about the engine, interior, steering, handling, etc.
Enjoy your Si, Tone.
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+1
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notyper
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No one is saying that the FR-S has a engine worthy of Honda's heritage, but then again, Honda doesn't have one anymore either.....
Temple of Half-VTEC?
SC
Last edited by notyper on 06-28-2012 22:42
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superchg2
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Thanks for the review on your new Si.
Enjoy the ride!
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TonyEX
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notyper wrote:
No one is saying that the FR-S has a engine worthy of Honda's heritage, but then again, Honda doesn't have one anymore either.....
Temple of Half-VTEC?
SC
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Temple of Input VTEC...
But seriously, as much as I realize that the K20Zn were such a great motors in the track... as soon as I exited the carpool lane on the 405 by Fountain Valley, realized that there wasn't as much room as I thought I had to pass that lumbering construction pickup and simply punched it -without downshifting- and the car just really went forward... well I just knew that AHM did the right thing to bring in the K24 in the urban civic.
Now, of course, you did not mention my comment about taking that motor, adding an AT5, dropping the LSD, keeping the interior and calling it an EX-i..... that what this car is really all about.
Perhaps the 2.0ED with Atkinson in the bottom end and true VTEC in the top end might be the answer... a fatter torque curve in the bottom with real horsepower on top to a high redline...
Who knows?
But in the meantime I think the 2013 Si is gonna sell like hot cakes. The truth is that its power is much more accessible... again, all it needs is an AT and 300 manufacturing bucks on the interior to simply clobber the competition.
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TonyEX
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DCR wrote:
330R wrote:
I'm here :wavey: but nothing's changed so nothing to say about the engine, interior, steering, handling, etc.
Enjoy your Si, Tone.
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+1
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To paraphrase PJ O"Rourke...
"he who carries the most kegs wins"...
My TSX Wagon is the Dad Mobile with the most kegs... more than your Toyobaru....
So, I win. ;-)
Besides, today I found out that the air flow in the TSX is very good. I smoked a cigar on my drive from Torrance to Irvine with no untoward moments and lingering aromas.
That is what it's all about... perhaps you'll take your car to the track.. but on the way there, I will be carrying more beer, more cigars, more tires, more everything.. but still keeping it within a reasonable level of performance.
Sure, that means that trucks don't count..
Hmm... was that a non sequitur? I think yours was too.... ;-)
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THX17201
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TonyE wrote:
notyper wrote:
No one is saying that the FR-S has a engine worthy of Honda's heritage, but then again, Honda doesn't have one anymore either.....
Temple of Half-VTEC?
SC
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Temple of Input VTEC...
But seriously, as much as I realize that the K20Zn were such a great motors in the track... as soon as I exited the carpool lane on the 405 by Fountain Valley, realized that there wasn't as much room as I thought I had to pass that lumbering construction pickup and simply punched it -without downshifting- and the car just really went forward... well I just knew that AHM did the right thing to bring in the K24 in the urban civic.
Now, of course, you did not mention my comment about taking that motor, adding an AT5, dropping the LSD, keeping the interior and calling it an EX-i..... that what this car is really all about.
Perhaps the 2.0ED with Atkinson in the bottom end and true VTEC in the top end might be the answer... a fatter torque curve in the bottom with real horsepower on top to a high redline...
Who knows?
But in the meantime I think the 2013 Si is gonna sell like hot cakes. The truth is that its power is much more accessible... again, all it needs is an AT and 300 manufacturing bucks on the interior to simply clobber the competition.
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I think you would find more people willing to accept the K24 if it had VTEC on the exhaust as well and didn't have the crippling integrated manifold. But the K24 in this state leaves a lot to be desired...
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DCR
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Sounds like you found the right car Tony. What color again? The silver or PMM?
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Postlude
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With regard to the '12 from C&D's Lightning Lap - "With the second-lightest curb weight in this year’s test and a supremely composed suspension, the Si manages the winding sector four faster than either the BMW 335is or the Mini. This new hot Civic posts a lap 2.4 seconds quicker than the old Si. It’s even 0.7 second quicker than the Mugen-tuned version we tested a few years ago."
Not too shabby.
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/lightning-lap-2012-feature-lightning-lap-2012-ll1-class-page-3
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TonyEX
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DCR wrote:
Sounds like you found the right car Tony. What color again? The silver or PMM?
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PMM.
And yes, I do agree that it would be better to have iVTEC on both sides. I figure that would yield even more power while keeping the efficiency up...
And, like I said, MY CAR, the TSX, is dark blue.
Also, as I implied in my write up, I think the 2013 Civic Si will be the one to own.. assuming they upgrade the interior. The current one will be hurt on resale value.
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rev2damoon
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Congratulations on your new 2012 "pseudo-Si".:-)
Let me just say however, that I have absolutely no problems with my 8th gen Si in everyday driving situations. I pass on the highway just fine, I drive around the city just fine and yes, downshifting the K20Z3 is an absolute pleasure. I have no qualms about doing it. I actually look forward to opportunities to downshift. Heck I do it just for kicks once in a while...lol.
So, agree with any perception that the K20Z3 is somewhat handicapped in daily driving situations, I most certainly do not. It is what an Si should be IMO, a more focused "driver's car"... Driver's car. Driving entertainment/engagement is the number 1 priority IMO, and the K20Z mated to Honda's outstanding 6sp MT entertains like no other. It will indeed require you to be more engaged, but IMO, if somebody's having problems driving around an 8th gen Si, then their heart isn't in it and they really should be driving something more mainstream oriented.
On a another note, to the person posting lightning lap results. Numbers matter, but not as much as the entertainment factor IMO. It matters not to me that the 9th gen is slightly quicker in certain situations out the box. At the end of the day the 8th is more mod-able and extra power can be found rather easily.
Again, congrats and enjoy your new ride.:-)
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sadlerau
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Postlude wrote:
With regard to the '12 from C&D's Lightning Lap - "With the second-lightest curb weight in this year’s test and a supremely composed suspension, the Si manages the winding sector four faster than either the BMW 335is or the Mini. This new hot Civic posts a lap 2.4 seconds quicker than the old Si. It’s even 0.7 second quicker than the Mugen-tuned version we tested a few years ago."
Not too shabby.
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/lightning-lap-2012-feature-lightning-lap-2012-ll1-class-page-3
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But almost 5 seconds slower over the lap than a Volkswagen GTI !
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The Legend
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TonyE wrote:
I drove our spanking new Si, dark silver, 4 doors, NAVI, this AM to Torrance.
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After the break-in period, don't forget to drop another $400 for Hondata chip to:
1. Eliminate rev-hang & improve throttle response... Owners swear it's a whole different car (in a positive, sporty way) after flashing.
2. Increase RPM to 7,600
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y84fuIPbc2U
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The Legend
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^
oops, nevermind since you're just leasing it.
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owequitit
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TonyE wrote:
notyper wrote:
No one is saying that the FR-S has a engine worthy of Honda's heritage, but then again, Honda doesn't have one anymore either.....
Temple of Half-VTEC?
SC
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Temple of Input VTEC...
But seriously, as much as I realize that the K20Zn were such a great motors in the track... as soon as I exited the carpool lane on the 405 by Fountain Valley, realized that there wasn't as much room as I thought I had to pass that lumbering construction pickup and simply punched it -without downshifting- and the car just really went forward... well I just knew that AHM did the right thing to bring in the K24 in the urban civic.
Now, of course, you did not mention my comment about taking that motor, adding an AT5, dropping the LSD, keeping the interior and calling it an EX-i..... that what this car is really all about.
Perhaps the 2.0ED with Atkinson in the bottom end and true VTEC in the top end might be the answer... a fatter torque curve in the bottom with real horsepower on top to a high redline...
Who knows?
But in the meantime I think the 2013 Si is gonna sell like hot cakes. The truth is that its power is much more accessible... again, all it needs is an AT and 300 manufacturing bucks on the interior to simply clobber the competition.
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The problem Tony is that the 9th gen Si doesn't compete against the 8th gen. It competes against every turbo car out there, and while it might do low RPM acceleration better than the old Si, it still pales in comparison to the competition, but has less unique character while doing it. If you think it was impressive the way it passed that truck, then you should probably try out something like an MS3, which would have made even quicker work of it, AND would have carried everything, or nearly everything, your TSX does...
I am glad you like the car, but that doesn't mean the rest of us are "wrong."
Also, for some reason, I have seen a huge increase in Si's locally, both 8th and 9th gen lately. Maybe because the 8ths are more affordable now, but I think between the two I have seen an 8-10 fold increase in them. Mostly 8th gens, but probably 5 or 6 9th gens as well. Of course, it helps that the local Honda dealer changed ownership and they are actually starting to stock them again...
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DCR
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Maybe I will start seeing them too, but not yet. The only 9th Gen Si I have seen so far was at the dealership. I have seen a few non-Si 9th Gen, but zero Si on the road. I have seen more Chevy Volts, if you can believe that.
The dealer I shop at still has the black Si coupe I test drove how long ago? I figured it would have sold by now, but it now has a red twin that has joined it on the lot.
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owequitit
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DCR wrote:
Maybe I will start seeing them too, but not yet. The only 9th Gen Si I have seen so far was at the dealership. I have seen a few non-Si 9th Gen, but zero Si on the road. I have seen more Chevy Volts, if you can believe that.
The dealer I shop at still has the black Si coupe I test drove how long ago? I figured it would have sold by now, but it now has a red twin that has joined it on the lot.
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We have a white coupe, a red coupe, and I saw a PMM Sedan the other week. I think I saw a black coupe, and the dealer currently has a blue coupe Si as well. However, the vast majority of Si's I have seen have been various years of 8th gen. I have seen like 5 or 6 coupes this week several sedans, and saw 7 or 8 on a canyon run last weekend. The first few years I owned my 09, I saw maybe a couple, but they have literally crawled out of the woodwork lately... I used to only see one or two regularly, and a different one only once every couple of months.
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TonyEX
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owequitit wrote:
TonyE wrote:
notyper wrote:
No one is saying that the FR-S has a engine worthy of Honda's heritage, but then again, Honda doesn't have one anymore either.....
Temple of Half-VTEC?
SC
|
Temple of Input VTEC...
But seriously, as much as I realize that the K20Zn were such a great motors in the track... as soon as I exited the carpool lane on the 405 by Fountain Valley, realized that there wasn't as much room as I thought I had to pass that lumbering construction pickup and simply punched it -without downshifting- and the car just really went forward... well I just knew that AHM did the right thing to bring in the K24 in the urban civic.
Now, of course, you did not mention my comment about taking that motor, adding an AT5, dropping the LSD, keeping the interior and calling it an EX-i..... that what this car is really all about.
Perhaps the 2.0ED with Atkinson in the bottom end and true VTEC in the top end might be the answer... a fatter torque curve in the bottom with real horsepower on top to a high redline...
Who knows?
But in the meantime I think the 2013 Si is gonna sell like hot cakes. The truth is that its power is much more accessible... again, all it needs is an AT and 300 manufacturing bucks on the interior to simply clobber the competition.
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The problem Tony is that the 9th gen Si doesn't compete against the 8th gen. It competes against every turbo car out there, and while it might do low RPM acceleration better than the old Si, it still pales in comparison to the competition, but has less unique character while doing it. If you think it was impressive the way it passed that truck, then you should probably try out something like an MS3, which would have made even quicker work of it, AND would have carried everything, or nearly everything, your TSX does...
I am glad you like the car, but that doesn't mean the rest of us are "wrong."
Also, for some reason, I have seen a huge increase in Si's locally, both 8th and 9th gen lately. Maybe because the 8ths are more affordable now, but I think between the two I have seen an 8-10 fold increase in them. Mostly 8th gens, but probably 5 or 6 9th gens as well. Of course, it helps that the local Honda dealer changed ownership and they are actually starting to stock them again...
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(1) I don't care for turbos.
(2) The TSX wagon is MUCH nicer than the MS3. You can't compare the interiors...
(3) I think your local dealer will be ordering more 9th gen Si's because they are the better car on the street. The power is much more accessible.
(4) Besides, how fast do you need to go on the street, anyhow? If you are saying that 0-60 in 5sec and is better than 6secs then I think you're engaging in a philosophical battle aking to "how many angels fit on the head of a pin"... meaningful in the track (*) but not on the street.
But it's OK, because if AHM's marketing gets its head our of its ass there should be a proper ILX-S with NAVI and LSD next year... and that will be the car to own.
(*) Of course, folks on the track modify their cars.. and here the 8th gen's K20Z3 is better because it is more adjustable... but that's about it.
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