rancho1
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I wonder if this will finally be the the version that has good sound insulation?
So many people buy Accords and then post threads about installing Dynamat and finding quieter tires to try to stop and mask tiresome road noise.
Even if Honda can't make a car quieter than a Camry or Malibu or even the new Fusion and new Altima, it really should be at least mid pack and not the loudest car that gets comments in reviews about road noise.
It isn't all about db meter stats either. Some frequencies are more noticeable to humans and the lowest db rated car isn't always perceived as the quietest car by a real person.
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rocky
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Bad road noise, wind noise, etc has been a Honda failing for years if not decades.
Its one feature that Honda will do well to "decontent"
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ru4real
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Take a drive in the Crosstour and you'll see what Honda can do already as far as hushing up noises, now if they'll carry over the same technology to the Accord will be another matter.
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integrator
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Honda pursued this idea of noise cancellation in some of its cars. Hopefully they've gotten over that idea and just decided to isolate the sources from the cabin instead (ie. insulation), so they can stop this nonsense that should have been handled a decade ago. There's some seriously hardheaded SOB's in our favorite company. Fingers crossed for the new Accord and the revised Civic. Im going to predict it will be quieter - even the Fit got an MMC addition of extra insulation. And the automotive world is no longer pulling punches on Honda simply because they handle great. No edge over the competition means no free passes any longer. From all the whining in the company, you can tell... they kinda got used to those.
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saitamahonda
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I had a bit of an issue with my 07TL's cabin noise up until I had my windows tinted and replacing the original tires.
Switching to Yokohama Advan S4s really made a difference without taking too much away from the road feel. I feel Honda should consider switching over to the Yokohamas as the Michellins and Bridgestones feel stiffer and cause more road noise and vibration. (I believe they are using Continentals now)
I've driven the latest BMW 335 diesel recently and while I found the cabin to be pretty quiet the road feel was just not there. It felt like a Lexus or Toyota Camry - a somewhat mushy feel where I did not get tactile feedback of the road surface.
Changing the sound deadening insulation may help somewhat, but I feel there is more to it than just adding insulation. Honda had been working on wheels that effectively reduced tire noise without taking away from the road feel but I think it's only on the Legend/RL that those wheels are used. Also, noise cancellation is a "sound" method that works well. It may require examining the various vent holes in the frame that are used for water run out and for air to circulate through the cabin as well. The undercarriage is a good place to start. The key will be to retain the road feel through the steering wheel and driver's seat.
If anything, different trims should offer different levels of ride feel, with the Sport being light and responsive and the Touring being insulated and comfortable. It would take either a compromise of the two or offering a spectrum to cater to individual needs. You can't make everyone happy.
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HONDA AFVM
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rancho1 wrote:
I wonder if this will finally be the the version that has good sound insulation?
So many people buy Accords and then post threads about installing Dynamat and finding quieter tires to try to stop and mask tiresome road noise.
Even if Honda can't make a car quieter than a Camry or Malibu or even the new Fusion and new Altima, it really should be at least mid pack and not the loudest car that gets comments in reviews about road noise.
It isn't all about db meter stats either. Some frequencies are more noticeable to humans and the lowest db rated car isn't always perceived as the quietest car by a real person.
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Honda tries to do it through the speakers to save weight.....
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integrator
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no doubt. and its an interesting idea. but most companies would evaluate and kill the idea if the result wasn't satisfactory. It didn't really have the same effect. There are other places they could be saving weight that (only my opinion) would be better sacrificed.
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BartMan
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Through the speakers -- that's really dumb. That will also cancel the sound that you want to hear, e.g. quiet conversation with someone in the back seat.
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A77
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No that's really dumb - its not how ASC/ANC works. The concept was originally pioneered by Lotus as a weight saving system over 20 years ago. Lotus being the most weight saving obsessed car manufacturer on the planet. The Crosstour remember has active sound control - all other Hondas just use the simpler noise cancelling system. Infinitis also use it. But I do think that ANC/ASC will never replace traditional sound proofing - its better at making already quiet cars even quieter.
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rancho1
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saitamahonda wrote:
I had a bit of an issue with my 07TL's cabin noise up until I had my windows tinted and replacing the original tires.
Switching to Yokohama Advan S4s really made a difference without taking too much away from the road feel. I feel Honda should consider switching over to the Yokohamas as the Michellins and Bridgestones feel stiffer and cause more road noise and vibration. (I believe they are using Continentals now)
I've driven the latest BMW 335 diesel recently and while I found the cabin to be pretty quiet the road feel was just not there. It felt like a Lexus or Toyota Camry - a somewhat mushy feel where I did not get tactile feedback of the road surface.
Changing the sound deadening insulation may help somewhat, but I feel there is more to it than just adding insulation. Honda had been working on wheels that effectively reduced tire noise without taking away from the road feel but I think it's only on the Legend/RL that those wheels are used. Also, noise cancellation is a "sound" method that works well. It may require examining the various vent holes in the frame that are used for water run out and for air to circulate through the cabin as well. The undercarriage is a good place to start. The key will be to retain the road feel through the steering wheel and driver's seat.
If anything, different trims should offer different levels of ride feel, with the Sport being light and responsive and the Touring being insulated and comfortable. It would take either a compromise of the two or offering a spectrum to cater to individual needs. You can't make everyone happy.
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There are quiet tires you can buy like Goodyear ComfortTreds.
The problem with tires like that is that just the first layers of the tires are quiet. You buy a set of new tires and they are so much quieter than the old tires you replaced and you rave about them. Then over the next year or so, they slowly get a bit noisier and at about 15K miles, they are no quieter than any other tire.
What are you going to do after that? Keep replacing them every 15K miles or be satisfied with only 15K miles of noise reduction on a 70K mile tire?
I don't think the short term quietness of special "quiet tires" are worth the expense. The cars just need to be built to block unwanted noise from coming in. Camry and Malibu are quiet. Most Buicks even quieter. It can be done at this price point. It doesn't require a $80K Mercedes to not have annoying road noise.
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Dren
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rancho1 wrote:
I wonder if this will finally be the the version that has good sound insulation?
So many people buy Accords and then post threads about installing Dynamat and finding quieter tires to try to stop and mask tiresome road noise.
Even if Honda can't make a car quieter than a Camry or Malibu or even the new Fusion and new Altima, it really should be at least mid pack and not the loudest car that gets comments in reviews about road noise.
It isn't all about db meter stats either. Some frequencies are more noticeable to humans and the lowest db rated car isn't always perceived as the quietest car by a real person.
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My Civic is exceptionally quiet in my garage. Something about turning on the engine ruins that whole experience.
Hondas are light years quieter than they used to be. They just aren't up to the competition in perceived levels.
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talon95
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BartMan wrote:
Through the speakers -- that's really dumb. That will also cancel the sound that you want to hear, e.g. quiet conversation with someone in the back seat.
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It doesn't cancel out all sound... it's designed to target certain frequencies (such as low frequency drivetrain noises) that a car's occupants would perceive as noise... the same types of noises that they attempt to control with sound insulation. Frequencies in the range of speech aren't affected (IOW "sound that you want to hear").
Frankly, when I get roped into chauffeur duty to take my mom and my aunt to visit relatives, I would pay real money for a button that would cancel out conversation from the back seat.
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talon95
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rancho1 wrote:
Camry and Malibu are quiet.
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I recently drove a 2011 Camry SE rental for a week and to be honest, I was unimpressed with the noise isolation. Compared to my 2011 Accord EX-L V6, the only difference I noticed was slightly better control of tire impact noise. Other tire noise (like on smooth pavement) was no better than with my Accord. Wind and engine noise were comparable (which I don't consider to be a problem with my Accord anyway). Overall, the difference was essentially imperceptible.
Combine that with the really crappy interior, HVAC controls and radio display, and I have to wonder how that car has been a top seller for all of these years. (I'm not a rabid Honda fanboy or a Toyota basher... I have to admit that the Camry's I4 and 6AT were quite nice).
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saitamahonda
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rancho1 wrote:
saitamahonda wrote:
I had a bit of an issue with my 07TL's cabin noise up until I had my windows tinted and replacing the original tires.
Switching to Yokohama Advan S4s really made a difference without taking too much away from the road feel. I feel Honda should consider switching over to the Yokohamas as the Michellins and Bridgestones feel stiffer and cause more road noise and vibration. (I believe they are using Continentals now)
I've driven the latest BMW 335 diesel recently and while I found the cabin to be pretty quiet the road feel was just not there. It felt like a Lexus or Toyota Camry - a somewhat mushy feel where I did not get tactile feedback of the road surface.
Changing the sound deadening insulation may help somewhat, but I feel there is more to it than just adding insulation. Honda had been working on wheels that effectively reduced tire noise without taking away from the road feel but I think it's only on the Legend/RL that those wheels are used. Also, noise cancellation is a "sound" method that works well. It may require examining the various vent holes in the frame that are used for water run out and for air to circulate through the cabin as well. The undercarriage is a good place to start. The key will be to retain the road feel through the steering wheel and driver's seat.
If anything, different trims should offer different levels of ride feel, with the Sport being light and responsive and the Touring being insulated and comfortable. It would take either a compromise of the two or offering a spectrum to cater to individual needs. You can't make everyone happy.
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There are quiet tires you can buy like Goodyear ComfortTreds.
The problem with tires like that is that just the first layers of the tires are quiet. You buy a set of new tires and they are so much quieter than the old tires you replaced and you rave about them. Then over the next year or so, they slowly get a bit noisier and at about 15K miles, they are no quieter than any other tire.
What are you going to do after that? Keep replacing them every 15K miles or be satisfied with only 15K miles of noise reduction on a 70K mile tire?
I don't think the short term quietness of special "quiet tires" are worth the expense. The cars just need to be built to block unwanted noise from coming in. Camry and Malibu are quiet. Most Buicks even quieter. It can be done at this price point. It doesn't require a $80K Mercedes to not have annoying road noise.
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I have the Goodyear Comfortreds on my CR-V and those are wearing out and getting noisy. I'm not particularly RAVING about how GOOD Yokoyama ADVANS S4, I'm merely making a comparison between the stock OEM tires and my replacements when NEW.
New tires will always be quieter than the outgoing OEM tires obviously, though I can assure you I can tell the difference. I can tell the difference in how the stock OEM tires when brand new were much more stickier than the Advans I replaced them with, but the Advans ARE quieter than the OEM tires it came with and have been for a much longer time. The rate at which tread is wearing is also far less. You get what you pay for, right? And the Yokohama Advan S4's aren't marketed for being quiet per say, I happened to get them because they were recommended to me by a person who bought them for their 7thGen Accord sedan and that it made a difference for him.
My Advans are at 9/10 front and 10/10 tread after having them for 10k miles. They are lasting much longer and noise levels have not increased. That being said the drawback is slightly less responsive crispness.
It was certainly a peeve of mine that our TL had some road/wind noise but since getting window tints and new tires (which I didn't do until the OEM tires wore out) the noise has not bothered me at all. That being said, Honda should be vigilant with aiming to minimize road noise as much as possible, and having cars developed in the US where streets aren't as smooth as Japan would help qualify/quantify measurements.
Have you seen the profile of Camry and Buick wheels? The tire walls are pretty tall, the wheel diameter less than the Accord, and handling far less sporty. Different strokes for different folks.
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rancho1
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saitamahonda wrote:
rancho1 wrote:
saitamahonda wrote:
I had a bit of an issue with my 07TL's cabin noise up until I had my windows tinted and replacing the original tires.
Switching to Yokohama Advan S4s really made a difference without taking too much away from the road feel. I feel Honda should consider switching over to the Yokohamas as the Michellins and Bridgestones feel stiffer and cause more road noise and vibration. (I believe they are using Continentals now)
I've driven the latest BMW 335 diesel recently and while I found the cabin to be pretty quiet the road feel was just not there. It felt like a Lexus or Toyota Camry - a somewhat mushy feel where I did not get tactile feedback of the road surface.
Changing the sound deadening insulation may help somewhat, but I feel there is more to it than just adding insulation. Honda had been working on wheels that effectively reduced tire noise without taking away from the road feel but I think it's only on the Legend/RL that those wheels are used. Also, noise cancellation is a "sound" method that works well. It may require examining the various vent holes in the frame that are used for water run out and for air to circulate through the cabin as well. The undercarriage is a good place to start. The key will be to retain the road feel through the steering wheel and driver's seat.
If anything, different trims should offer different levels of ride feel, with the Sport being light and responsive and the Touring being insulated and comfortable. It would take either a compromise of the two or offering a spectrum to cater to individual needs. You can't make everyone happy.
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There are quiet tires you can buy like Goodyear ComfortTreds.
The problem with tires like that is that just the first layers of the tires are quiet. You buy a set of new tires and they are so much quieter than the old tires you replaced and you rave about them. Then over the next year or so, they slowly get a bit noisier and at about 15K miles, they are no quieter than any other tire.
What are you going to do after that? Keep replacing them every 15K miles or be satisfied with only 15K miles of noise reduction on a 70K mile tire?
I don't think the short term quietness of special "quiet tires" are worth the expense. The cars just need to be built to block unwanted noise from coming in. Camry and Malibu are quiet. Most Buicks even quieter. It can be done at this price point. It doesn't require a $80K Mercedes to not have annoying road noise.
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I have the Goodyear Comfortreds on my CR-V and those are wearing out and getting noisy. I'm not particularly RAVING about how GOOD Yokoyama ADVANS S4, I'm merely making a comparison between the stock OEM tires and my replacements when NEW.
New tires will always be quieter than the outgoing OEM tires obviously, though I can assure you I can tell the difference. I can tell the difference in how the stock OEM tires when brand new were much more stickier than the Advans I replaced them with, but the Advans ARE quieter than the OEM tires it came with and have been for a much longer time. The rate at which tread is wearing is also far less. You get what you pay for, right? And the Yokohama Advan S4's aren't marketed for being quiet per say, I happened to get them because they were recommended to me by a person who bought them for their 7thGen Accord sedan and that it made a difference for him.
My Advans are at 9/10 front and 10/10 tread after having them for 10k miles. They are lasting much longer and noise levels have not increased. That being said the drawback is slightly less responsive crispness.
It was certainly a peeve of mine that our TL had some road/wind noise but since getting window tints and new tires (which I didn't do until the OEM tires wore out) the noise has not bothered me at all. That being said, Honda should be vigilant with aiming to minimize road noise as much as possible, and having cars developed in the US where streets aren't as smooth as Japan would help qualify/quantify measurements.
Have you seen the profile of Camry and Buick wheels? The tire walls are pretty tall, the wheel diameter less than the Accord, and handling far less sporty. Different strokes for different folks.
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Big wheels and lower profile tires are the trend for the last several years. The sidewalls aren't that tall anymore even on Camrys and Buicks except on lower trims. An Accord LX's tires are not low profile either.
It all depends on whether you get a low or high level trim model.
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