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CB77
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Additional Earth Dreams Info...    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-27-2012 09:48
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(I assume most of this info has been previously-posted here, but I can't recall seeing it in this much detail.)



"Earth Dreams Technology" is a next generation set of technological advancements which greatly enhance both driving performance and fuel efficiency at a high level, using as its base advanced environmental technologies to pursue the joy of driving unique to Honda. It is a series of measures in which efficiency of internal combustion components including engine, and transmission, as well as electric-powered motor technology, is further improved.

Inspiration of the "Earth Dreams Technology" name:

"Earth Dreams Technology" is an expression for a set of technologies which takes into account both our need to protect the environment and our desire to provide a joy of driving.

Key features of "Earth Dreams Technology"

1. A gasoline engine which realizes top level driving performance and fuel efficiency.

2. A compact diesel engine which realizes the world's lightest body 1, top-of-class 1 acceleration performance and fuel efficiency.

3. CVT which combines at a high level the fun of driving and fuel efficiency.

4. A two-motor hybrid system which realizes top-of-industry efficiency 1.

5. A high-efficiency, high output electric SH-AWD hybrid system which combines superior driving and environmental performance.

6. A compact, high efficiency electric powertrain for EVs.


Summary of key features

1. Gasoline engine which achieves top-of-industry driving performance and fuel efficiency

o By enhancing Honda's original VTEC (Variable Valve Timing and Lift Electronic Control System) technology to thoroughly improve thermal efficiency and minimize friction, a combination of high output and fuel efficiency was achieved. Further, a new engine series employing a new structure for higher expandability was developed.
o By gradually renewing the engine starting with the mini-vehicle N BOX, Honda aims to utilize this technology to achieve top-of-industry output and fuel efficiency in every vehicle class within three years.
o A wide range of engine classes including the 660cc, 1.3L, 1.5L, 1.8L, 2.0L, 2.4L, and 3.5L classes will feature the technology.


660cc class engine

o Employs DOHC and VTC (Variable Timing Control) to improve intake efficiency. Further, the compact combustion chamber realizes high thermal efficiency.
o By shortening the bore pitch compared to the present engine models and reducing the thickness of the cylinder block and camshaft, engine weight is reduced by 15 percent2 and fuel efficiency is improved by 10 percent2.


1.3 to 1.5L class engine

o Employs VTC, direct injection technology and the Atkinson cycle using the DOHC, VTEC technologies as the base.
o Extensive friction reduction measures are implemented.


1.8 to 2.0L class engine

• Employs direct injection technology and the Atkinson cycle using the DOHC, VTEC technologies as the base. Further, implementation of VTC and high-capacity EGR (Exhaust Gas Recirculation) to both the intake and exhaust ports realizes significantly reduced friction.
• For the 2.0L class hybrid vehicle engines, use of an electric water pump eliminates the need for a belt in the auxiliary device and contributes to a reduction in friction. The VTC system allows fuel-efficient driving in various driving styles.


2.4L class engine

• Based on the DOHC and VTEC technologies, it employs VTC and direct injection technology and implements extensive friction reduction measures.
• Standalone engine features 5 percent2 improvements in fuel efficiency and output as well as a 10 percent2 improvement in maximum torque compared to the previous engine.


3.5L class engine

• Employs new valve train mechanisms and direct injection technology in the SOHC, VTEC, VMC systems to improve by over 10 percent2 of fuel efficiency and 5 percent2 of output, relative to the present standalone engine model.


2. A compact diesel engine which realizes the world's lightest body1, top-of-class1 acceleration performance and fuel efficiency.

• Through optimizing engine rigidity and combustion pressure, an aluminum open deck for the cylinder block was enabled in this top-of-industry lightweight1 1.6L class diesel engine.
• By downsizing from the present 2.2L engine and extensively reducing mechanical friction in each section, a friction level equivalent to present gasoline engine models was achieved.
• Optimized thermal management system thanks to improvements in the cooling system reduces CO2 output by over 15 percent2 .
• Employment of a compact, high-efficiency turbocharger and weight reduction in the reciprocating sliding section realizes a sporty and nimble ride.


3. CVT which combines at a high level the fun of driving and fuel efficiency

• Three CVT structures for mini, compact, and mid-size vehicle classes are newly developed to be adopted for a variety of engine models.
• Reinforced belt is used to realize a structure for which a wide ratio range can be set.
• Implementation of analysis technology over the contact behavior between the belt and pulley, and a high-precision hydraulic control system allows for continual optimization of hydraulic pressure to the pulley under a variety of driving conditions, contributing to improved fuel efficiency.
• Use of an electronic oil pump to realize an idle stop system with high response contributes significantly to improved usability and fuel efficiency.
• "G-Design Shift", a new coordinated control system for shift transmission, throttle, and hydraulic control responds quickly to driver demands and realizes an exhilarating, sporty drive with superior acceleration.
• In the mini-vehicle class, a control mechanism and innovations in axle placement to reduce the engine size lengthwise, while a reduction in parts by simplifying the transmission casing structure helps realize a lightweight and compact body.
• For the compact and mid-size classes, in addition to the reductions in size and weight, transmission efficiency was greatly improved by expanding the ratio range to achieve fuel efficiency improvements of 5 percent2 and 10 percent2 compared to the conventional CVT and comparable 5ATs, respectively.


4. A two-motor hybrid system which realizes top-of-industry efficiency1

• A two-motor hybrid system featuring top-of-industry efficiency1 enhancing driving performance and reduced CO2 emissions has been newly developed.
• Special lithium-ion battery and charger is employed to enable mounting on plug-in hybrid vehicles.
• Mid-sized vehicles equipped with this system are scheduled to begin production, starting with the plug-in hybrid model in 2012 and the hybrid model in 2013.
• Three driving modes allowing for top-of-industry efficiency1 for various driving environments were developed; an "EV driving mode" for urban environments, a "hybrid driving mode" using electricity generated by the motor, and a "engine-connected driving mode" where the engine and tires are mechanically connected during high-speed cruising.
• Combination with a high-output 120kW motor allows for superior environmental performance and driving enjoyment.


5. A high-efficiency, high output electric SH-AWD hybrid system which combines superior driving and environmental performance.

• A new hybrid system, electric SH-AWD, was developed for large-sized vehicles. By combining a 3.5L, V6 engine with this hybrid system, acceleration equivalent to V8 engines, as well as fuel efficiency equal or superior to in-line 4-cylinder engines were realized.
• An electric 4WD system with independent 20kW+ motors on both sides for the rear wheels combines a 7-speed dual clutch transmission system with a built-in 30kW+ high-efficiency motor with the engine.
• By mounting a high-performance lithium-ion battery and optimally controlling the front and rear motors, a new hybrid system with high fuel efficiency and output was realized.
• By mounting two independent motors in the rear and employing a newly developed bilateral torque adjustable control system, incredibly tight cornering just like driving "on-the-rail" is realized. With this mechanism, Honda strives to provide a stable ride for various driving environments.


6. A compact, high efficiency electric powertrain for EVs

• Thanks to the high efficiency coaxial motor, low-friction gearbox and electric servo brake system, the system realizes the highest electrical consumption capability in the world1 , meeting the required AC consumption rate of 29kWh/100mile(116MPGe) as set forth by the United States.
• A traveling distance of 123 miles*3 (LA-4mode: unadjusted) or 210km3 (JC08 mode) was achieved thanks to the mounting of a high capacity lithium-ion battery.
• When using the 240V U.S. electric source, a full charge takes less than 3 hours. (From the time a low-charge signal is lit till full charge)
• By offering three driving modes (SPORT, NORMAL, ECON), the driver can freely select from a number of options to meet the needs of various driving styles such as power-saving or sporty drive.


1 Honda internal research (as of November 30, 2011)
2 Compared to Honda products
3 Honda calculations

Chocs
Profile for Chocs
Re: Additional Earth Dreams Info...    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-27-2012 10:00
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New game:

Every time you read the word "efficiency", take a shot (of liquor).
FiSH-Chan
Profile for FiSH-Chan
Re: Additional Earth Dreams Info...    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-27-2012 10:14
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Chocs wrote:
New game:

Every time you read the word "efficiency", take a shot (of liquor).



You see, bad news is that Honda is bad at marketing. So, that means when Honda overuse the word 'efficiency' than it must mean it's that efficient. lol
JDMImport
Profile for JDMImport
Re: Additional Earth Dreams Info...    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-27-2012 10:37
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Will the 2013 Accord have ED tech in it?
Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: Additional Earth Dreams Info...    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-27-2012 10:37
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UTSUNOMIYA, Japan -- Honda Motor Co., fighting to restore its reputation for innovation, is poised to open a "toy box" of new technologies and products that will make it the industry leader in fuel efficiency, the company's top car engineer says.

The coming three-year blitz -- based on the company's new range of "Earth Dreams" engines, transmissions and hybrid systems -- will boost the average fuel economy of its fleet 10 percent, says Yasuhisa Arai, senior managing officer at Honda R&D Co.

"It's going to be like a bottomless toy box, pulling out something new one after another," Arai told Automotive News at Honda's global technical center north of Tokyo. He laid out the time frame for launching the technologies on several vehicles, starting with the redesigned Accord, which goes on sale this autumn.

"We've been in the top group for fuel efficiency for some time. And we want to break out of that group and lead the industry through the innovation of Earth Dreams," Arai said.

It remains to be seen, though, if Earth Dreams is truly revolutionary or just evolutionary. "The technology itself is almost identical to the similar direction of everyone else. Almost everyone has direct-injection engines these days," CFO Fumihiko Ike concedes.

The Earth Dreams suite of technologies, unveiled last November, represents the biggest overhaul of Honda's drivetrain since its introduction of VTEC variable-valve timing in the late 1980s.

The biggest step for Earth Dreams is the widespread application of direct injection across the company's gasoline engine lineup. Honda is a neophyte to this fuel-saving technology, having briefly employed it in only one nameplate with a gasoline engine.

Tougher at the top
Yasuhisa Arai, Honda R&D Co.: "We've been in the top group for fuel efficiency for some time. And we want to break out of that group and lead the industry."

The previous-generation Honda Stream, a Japan-market compact wagon, got the technology in 2004-06. Honda now wants to load it on nearly every car.

Honda needs the technology to keep pace with rivals such as Hyundai, Ford and Nissan, which are boosting fuel economy through greater use of direct injection, turbocharging, six-speed automatic transmissions and continuously variable transmissions.

A new hybrid system, also part of the Earth Dreams package, aims to steal customers from Toyota Motor Corp.'s extensive lineup of hybrids.

Honda's stated goal is to achieve "top-of-industry" fuel efficiency in every vehicle category in three years. But it's a fuzzy target with plenty of wiggle room.

Arai hedges his bets on the Fit small car by suggesting that it really sits in a category of its own because of its class-leading interior space. While he says becoming the clear leader in mid-sized sedans will be difficult, he sidesteps questions about how close Honda already is to
top status in any segment.

Earth Dreams is part of a trend in branding powertrains. It follows the likes of Mazda Motor Corp.'s Skyactiv powertrain technologies and Ford Motor Co.'s EcoBoost lineup.

"In terms of engine technology, it's not such a big breakthrough," says Toru Hatano, a powertrain specialist at IHS Automotive in Tokyo. But the new drivetrains "are important for Honda to improve fuel economy, especially with that expected to be a key selling point for the next-generation Accord."

Hatano would have liked to see more improvement in continuous variable valve timing or downsizing to eke out further mpg gains.


'Building block'
Honda President Takanobu Ito says the technology is not as dramatically innovative as the CVCC engine, which met emissions standards without using a catalytic converter, or the VTEC project. But he says its impact on the company will be similar.

Arai says his mission was even wider in scope than those high-profile technological achievements.

"This is a very important building block for the next generation of vehicles," Arai says. "This is revolutionary in the sense that we are renovating many engine series in one go."

The Earth Dreams lineup includes four new gasoline engines with direct injection and double-overhead cams; a turbocharged diesel engine; three redesigned CVTs; and two new gasoline-electric hybrid powertrains for mid-sized cars.

Earth Dreams technology will debut in the United States in the 2.4- and 3.5-liter fuel-injected engines offered in the redesigned Accord sedan arriving this fall. That car also will get the Earth Dreams two-motor plug-in hybrid system in the winter.

The rest of the engines will be rolled out over the next three years as vehicles are redesigned or get a midcycle restyling.

Civic variable timing
One question is when the Civic will get an Earth Dreams upgrade.

Arai says Honda wants to put a new engine into the current-generation Civic, which debuted last year, but nothing has been decided. It's likely too late to add it this year, he says.

"That's one of the most important cars for us," Arai said. "If we tried to put it in this year, probably we would not make it in time. But we are in the process of preparing for it so that we will never, ever lose with this car."

Honda is also debating whether to equip future Civic hybrids with the new two-motor system that will debut this winter on the Accord, Arai said. The current Civic hybrid uses the motor-assist hybrid system seen in the Insight and CR-Z hybrids, which has received lackluster reviews.

The new hybrid technology arrives first this winter in a plug-in Accord to meet California emissions standards. It will be followed by a standard hybrid.

When combined with a V-6 engine, the plug-in will deliver V-8 power and four-cylinder fuel economy. The system can run in electric-only mode, electric-and-gasoline for passing and acceleration, or gasoline-only for highway cruising.

Cost is the main obstacle to carrying the system over to the Civic, Arai said.

More hybrids
The chief engineer downplayed the idea of equipping the Odyssey minivan with the two-motor hybrid system, saying the Odyssey likely would be too heavy to be a candidate for the technology.

The nonhybrid versions of the Accord still are expected to outsell by far the electrified version, Arai said. The nonhybrids will get better fuel economy through the new engines and CVTs.

The 2.4-liter Accord is expected to be offered only with a CVT, while the 3.5-liter version comes with a stepped-gear automatic transmission for more immediate throttle response. The Accord coupe will offer a manual or automatic with the 3.5 liter, and a CVT only for the 2.4 liter.

The Accord hybrid system will be teamed with a 2.0-liter engine and a lithium ion battery.

Another first for Honda will be the use of a dual-clutch transmission in the new all-wheel-drive hybrid drivetrain earmarked for the Acura RLX and NSX.

The so-called Sport Hybrid SH-AWD -- short for Super Handling All-Wheel Drive -- system uses one motor in the powerplant, plus electric motors at both rear wheels to deliver independent torque for tighter cornering. The powerplant will be teamed with a seven-speed dual-clutch transmission, which Arai said was chosen over a traditional automatic for its sportier performance.

One other toy from Honda: an overhauled integrated motor assist, or stop-start, hybrid system for the next-generation Fit small car scheduled to arrive next year.



Read more:


http://www.autonews.com/article/20120618/OEM06/306189956#ixzz1z0K3FWUs
TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Additional Earth Dreams Info...    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-27-2012 11:07
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JDMImport wrote:
Will the 2013 Accord have ED tech in it?



It's the launch platform.

Where have you been the last few months?
WongKN
Profile for WongKN
Re: Additional Earth Dreams Info...    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-27-2012 11:08
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I feel very sad when I decide to post this kind of response. But you'll forgive me when I say:

I'll believe it when (or IF) I see it.
blackstripe77
Profile for blackstripe77
Re: Additional Earth Dreams Info...    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-27-2012 12:53
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New Accord looks nice, but I'm most looking forward to the next gen powertrains in the Insight/CR-Z/Fit RS-H.
DrWhiner
Profile for DrWhiner
Re: Additional Earth Dreams Info...    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-27-2012 12:55
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^Where is the "additional" info???

JDMImport
Profile for JDMImport
Re: Additional Earth Dreams Info...    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-27-2012 13:38
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Heard conflicting reports.

Still very skeptical of a a CVT promoting driving performance.
ClementZ
Profile for ClementZ
Re: Additional Earth Dreams Info...    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-27-2012 13:44
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Nick Graves wrote:

UTSUNOMIYA, Japan -- Honda Motor Co., fighting to restore its reputation for innovation, is poised to open a "toy box" of new technologies and products that will make it the industry leader in fuel efficiency, the company's top car engineer says.

The coming three-year blitz -- based on the company's new range of "Earth Dreams" engines, transmissions and hybrid systems -- will boost the average fuel economy of its fleet 10 percent, says Yasuhisa Arai, senior managing officer at Honda R&D Co.

"It's going to be like a bottomless toy box, pulling out something new one after another," Arai told Automotive News at Honda's global technical center north of Tokyo. He laid out the time frame for launching the technologies on several vehicles, starting with the redesigned Accord, which goes on sale this autumn.

"We've been in the top group for fuel efficiency for some time. And we want to break out of that group and lead the industry through the innovation of Earth Dreams," Arai said.

It remains to be seen, though, if Earth Dreams is truly revolutionary or just evolutionary. "The technology itself is almost identical to the similar direction of everyone else. Almost everyone has direct-injection engines these days," CFO Fumihiko Ike concedes.

The Earth Dreams suite of technologies, unveiled last November, represents the biggest overhaul of Honda's drivetrain since its introduction of VTEC variable-valve timing in the late 1980s.

The biggest step for Earth Dreams is the widespread application of direct injection across the company's gasoline engine lineup. Honda is a neophyte to this fuel-saving technology, having briefly employed it in only one nameplate with a gasoline engine.

Tougher at the top
Yasuhisa Arai, Honda R&D Co.: "We've been in the top group for fuel efficiency for some time. And we want to break out of that group and lead the industry."

The previous-generation Honda Stream, a Japan-market compact wagon, got the technology in 2004-06. Honda now wants to load it on nearly every car.

Honda needs the technology to keep pace with rivals such as Hyundai, Ford and Nissan, which are boosting fuel economy through greater use of direct injection, turbocharging, six-speed automatic transmissions and continuously variable transmissions.

A new hybrid system, also part of the Earth Dreams package, aims to steal customers from Toyota Motor Corp.'s extensive lineup of hybrids.

Honda's stated goal is to achieve "top-of-industry" fuel efficiency in every vehicle category in three years. But it's a fuzzy target with plenty of wiggle room.

Arai hedges his bets on the Fit small car by suggesting that it really sits in a category of its own because of its class-leading interior space. While he says becoming the clear leader in mid-sized sedans will be difficult, he sidesteps questions about how close Honda already is to
top status in any segment.

Earth Dreams is part of a trend in branding powertrains. It follows the likes of Mazda Motor Corp.'s Skyactiv powertrain technologies and Ford Motor Co.'s EcoBoost lineup.

"In terms of engine technology, it's not such a big breakthrough," says Toru Hatano, a powertrain specialist at IHS Automotive in Tokyo. But the new drivetrains "are important for Honda to improve fuel economy, especially with that expected to be a key selling point for the next-generation Accord."

Hatano would have liked to see more improvement in continuous variable valve timing or downsizing to eke out further mpg gains.


'Building block'
Honda President Takanobu Ito says the technology is not as dramatically innovative as the CVCC engine, which met emissions standards without using a catalytic converter, or the VTEC project. But he says its impact on the company will be similar.

Arai says his mission was even wider in scope than those high-profile technological achievements.

"This is a very important building block for the next generation of vehicles," Arai says. "This is revolutionary in the sense that we are renovating many engine series in one go."

The Earth Dreams lineup includes four new gasoline engines with direct injection and double-overhead cams; a turbocharged diesel engine; three redesigned CVTs; and two new gasoline-electric hybrid powertrains for mid-sized cars.

Earth Dreams technology will debut in the United States in the 2.4- and 3.5-liter fuel-injected engines offered in the redesigned Accord sedan arriving this fall. That car also will get the Earth Dreams two-motor plug-in hybrid system in the winter.

The rest of the engines will be rolled out over the next three years as vehicles are redesigned or get a midcycle restyling.

Civic variable timing
One question is when the Civic will get an Earth Dreams upgrade.

Arai says Honda wants to put a new engine into the current-generation Civic, which debuted last year, but nothing has been decided. It's likely too late to add it this year, he says.

"That's one of the most important cars for us," Arai said. "If we tried to put it in this year, probably we would not make it in time. But we are in the process of preparing for it so that we will never, ever lose with this car."

Honda is also debating whether to equip future Civic hybrids with the new two-motor system that will debut this winter on the Accord, Arai said. The current Civic hybrid uses the motor-assist hybrid system seen in the Insight and CR-Z hybrids, which has received lackluster reviews.

The new hybrid technology arrives first this winter in a plug-in Accord to meet California emissions standards. It will be followed by a standard hybrid.

When combined with a V-6 engine, the plug-in will deliver V-8 power and four-cylinder fuel economy. The system can run in electric-only mode, electric-and-gasoline for passing and acceleration, or gasoline-only for highway cruising.

Cost is the main obstacle to carrying the system over to the Civic, Arai said.

More hybrids
The chief engineer downplayed the idea of equipping the Odyssey minivan with the two-motor hybrid system, saying the Odyssey likely would be too heavy to be a candidate for the technology.

The nonhybrid versions of the Accord still are expected to outsell by far the electrified version, Arai said. The nonhybrids will get better fuel economy through the new engines and CVTs.

The 2.4-liter Accord is expected to be offered only with a CVT, while the 3.5-liter version comes with a stepped-gear automatic transmission for more immediate throttle response. The Accord coupe will offer a manual or automatic with the 3.5 liter, and a CVT only for the 2.4 liter.

The Accord hybrid system will be teamed with a 2.0-liter engine and a lithium ion battery.

Another first for Honda will be the use of a dual-clutch transmission in the new all-wheel-drive hybrid drivetrain earmarked for the Acura RLX and NSX.

The so-called Sport Hybrid SH-AWD -- short for Super Handling All-Wheel Drive -- system uses one motor in the powerplant, plus electric motors at both rear wheels to deliver independent torque for tighter cornering. The powerplant will be teamed with a seven-speed dual-clutch transmission, which Arai said was chosen over a traditional automatic for its sportier performance.

One other toy from Honda: an overhauled integrated motor assist, or stop-start, hybrid system for the next-generation Fit small car scheduled to arrive next year.



Read more:


http://www.autonews.com/article/20120618/OEM06/306189956#ixzz1z0K3FWUs



Spy shots seem to have disproven the CVT only on the 2.4 (unless the spy shots are of the coupe).
Really though, I am hoping to God that the sedan comes with the 6MT as well.
And why are they talking about pairing the plug-in with a V6?
Are they planning on offering that somewhere sometime soon?
FiSH-Chan
Profile for FiSH-Chan
Re: Additional Earth Dreams Info...    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-28-2012 01:48
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JDMImport wrote:
Heard conflicting reports.

Still very skeptical of a a CVT promoting driving performance.



At best the CVT will offer the exact same feel of a normal automatic except more efficient. So either way if you feel AT does zero to promote driving performace then the new CVT it will be not better at that for you.
Honda Dream
Profile for Honda Dream
Re: Additional Earth Dreams Info...    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-28-2012 05:50
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TonyE wrote:
JDMImport wrote:
Will the 2013 Accord have ED tech in it?



It's the launch platform.

Where have you been the last few months?




It is interesting to see what the final specs are gonna be for both I4s and V6. I am more into V6 of new generation. I expect just a small step forward in performance for both and quite a big one in fuel consumption

By the way: congrats on Spain's 3rd straight Final in major football tournament - EURO2012. They seem to stand a good chance to win whoever is gonna play against in Kiev on Sunday!
DrWhiner
Profile for DrWhiner
Re: Additional Earth Dreams Info...    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-28-2012 21:39
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I'll believe it when (or IF) I see it.

I think the ED CVT has proven its value.
Though Honda has only promised 5% improvement over its CVT, and 10% over 5AT, the new CVT actually provides 9%-12% better F.E. compared w/ older CVT and +15-17% than 5AT in the 'inflated' official rating.
danielgr
Profile for danielgr
Re: Additional Earth Dreams Info...    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-03-2012 10:01
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CB77 wrote:

(I assume most of this info has been previously-posted here, but I can't recall seeing it in this much detail.)
[...]
Assume you found it on your Honda corporate website, but that's simply a copy-paste of the original ED press release back in November 2011, as seen on TOV (link), Honda Worldwide website (link), and Honda US media website (link), among other news sources.
superchg2
Profile for superchg2
Re: Additional Earth Dreams Info...    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-03-2012 10:14
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DrWhiner wrote:
I'll believe it when (or IF) I see it.

I think the ED CVT has proven its value.
Though Honda has only promised 5% improvement over its CVT, and 10% over 5AT, the new CVT actually provides 9%-12% better F.E. compared w/ older CVT and +15-17% than 5AT in the 'inflated' official rating.


This power train has not even been driven or tested by an independent party. How in the heck can an unknown have a proven value?
danielgr
Profile for danielgr
Re: Additional Earth Dreams Info...    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-03-2012 10:45
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superchg2 wrote:
DrWhiner wrote:
I'll believe it when (or IF) I see it.

I think the ED CVT has proven its value.
Though Honda has only promised 5% improvement over its CVT, and 10% over 5AT, the new CVT actually provides 9%-12% better F.E. compared w/ older CVT and +15-17% than 5AT in the 'inflated' official rating.

This power train has not even been driven or tested by an independent party. How in the heck can an unknown have a proven value?

Though I believe there have been no third party instrumented FE testing, your quote is technically wrong. As a matter of fact many journalist drove the 2.4L ED+CVT in Japan past year. Here is a short comment from Jeff, for example, but he has written other pieces here and there in the forums since then:
While I was in Japan for the Tokyo Motor Show, I drove a prototype Accord model that was coupled to a new "earth dreams" direct-injection DOHC i-VTEC 2.4L 4-cylinder engine and was impressed not only by the engine's strong and broad torque curve, but by the responsive and direct feel of the new CVT design. I generally despise the lethargic and "laggy" feel of CVTs, but this new "Earth Dreams" CVT exhibited none of these annoying traits.

DrWhiner
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Re: Additional Earth Dreams Info...    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-04-2012 03:09
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superchg2 wrote:
This power train has not even been driven or tested by an independent party. How in the heck can an unknown have a proven value?

1) I doubt you have never seen all those ad.s touting "40 MPG" cars;
2) who is the "independent part" who verified those "40 MPG" cars?
3) is C&D, MT, R&T, Automobile or IL etc. considered "independent"? Are you going to accept the result from any one of the above?
4) ToVers always have excuses, when the result from one of these "independent" parties didn't fit into their "expectation", they cried foul. See this http://vtec.net/forums/one-message?message%5fid=1075078
and this http://vtec.net/forums/one-message?message_id=1075117
Chocs
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Re: Additional Earth Dreams Info...    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-04-2012 20:50
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FWIW, the ED CVT Honda N-Box is already being driven by the population in Japan.
xBeastx
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Re: Additional Earth Dreams Info...    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-04-2012 21:40
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Chocs wrote:
FWIW, the ED CVT Honda N-Box is already being driven by the population in Japan.



That is one very interesting car. I'm kinda lost my words for the styling...don't know if that's good or bad. But the powertrain sure looks amazing. I didn't know Honda offered the auto start-stop on their non-hybrid models. And that CVT does sound pretty decent. I really hope that engine off at stop will be on all Honda's upcoming ED cars.
FiSH-Chan
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Re: Additional Earth Dreams Info...    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-04-2012 22:15
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xAbSoLuTexZeRo wrote:
That is one very interesting car. I'm kinda lost my words for the styling...don't know if that's good or bad. But the powertrain sure looks amazing. I didn't know Honda offered the auto start-stop on their non-hybrid models. And that CVT does sound pretty decent. I really hope that engine off at stop will be on all Honda's upcoming ED cars.


I have the opposite opinoin... the engine sounded quite bad to me.. but that is a small engine so i guess is acceptable. The CVT sounds like it revs up for a while and then 'shifts' to lower rev. Either that or the person driving suddenly let off the throttle, doesn't look like it has paddle shifter. The autostart seems to work fast.
FiSH-Chan
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Re: Additional Earth Dreams Info...    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-04-2012 22:24
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FiSH-Chan wrote:
I have the opposite opinoin... the engine sounded quite bad to me.. but that is a small engine so i guess is acceptable. The CVT sounds like it revs up for a while and then 'shifts' to lower rev. Either that or the person driving suddenly let off the throttle, doesn't look like it has paddle shifter. The autostart seems to work fast.


OK just listen to it again over proper speakers (was using laptop)... sound better. And there doesn't seem to be any 'shift'... everythign i listen to is all wrong.
BachelorFrog
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Re: Additional Earth Dreams Info...    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-04-2012 22:58
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Damn....the background music in the video is quite motivating..
Fan Koni
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Re: Additional Earth Dreams Info...    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-04-2012 23:26
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Anybody know how the new ED N-box compares to the old versions? Are the tests favorable?
DrWhiner
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Re: Additional Earth Dreams Info...    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-05-2012 01:47
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AFAIK, the new N box is designed from the ground up with a new ED S series engine and CVT.

BTW, Honda just debuted N box +.
danielgr
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Re: Additional Earth Dreams Info...    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-05-2012 11:31
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xAbSoLuTexZeRo wrote:
[...] I didn't know Honda offered the auto start-stop on their non-hybrid models. And that CVT does sound pretty decent. I really hope that engine off at stop will be on all Honda's upcoming ED cars.

- Revealing the N-Box being first non-hybrid Honda to get idle-stop on TOV (Nov 2011)
- Revealing StepWGN minivan also got it together with ED CVT matted to an R20 on TOV (March 2012)
- And btw, the 9th gen European Civic hatch also got idle-stop without any ED drivetrain/tranny whatsoever.
danielgr
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Re: Additional Earth Dreams Info...    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-05-2012 11:35
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Fan Koni wrote:
Anybody know how the new ED N-box compares to the old versions? Are the tests favorable?
The N-Box being "brand new" there are no identical versions to compare to.

That said, I did post a comparison with pre-ED Honda kei cars when the N-Box was launched past year:
Early pic on what to expect from EarthDreams : N-Box powertrain details (Dec 2011, on TOV)
 
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