NealX
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My apologies. This new info was too buried within my first field report...
I had a chance to again visit my local Acura dealer here in Phoenix this morning - Sunday, June 17th - and had an extended conversation with a very kind and pragmatic sales manager.
As of this time they have sold ZERO ILXs in any trim or model.
Just a few notes of import communicated to me - unbiased, unsolicited, uncoached:
Biggest (initial) challenge continues to be getting potential buyers in to the show room to look at the car. They are unable to sit down with a potential buyer because no potential buyers are coming to the store expressing an interest.
Those who have looked at the car have commented that "it is not sexy enough" for the price of entry. There are "better options" at this price point.
The asking price is perceived as too high.
Hybrid mileage and lack of a "hybrid look" is not strong enough to justify the asking price.
Those outside of the "GenY" fold have already had their RSXs and G1 TSXs so this car offers no appeal to them.
An AT and/or Tech of the 2.4 could improve sales but the challenge of getting the buyers "in the door" would remain.
The perceived, overall quality of the ILX is very high (despite the price) but that is not being communicated to the potential buyer.
Key features associated with a "premium brand" are absent from the ILX. (not specific, here)
Broadcast and web marketing are putting too much emphasis on the image/self-perception of the buyer rather than communicating the quality of the car - and that the car is shown too little within those adverts.
A GenY buyer is not inclined to "reward themselves" with an Acura branded vehicle, even if their "great first job" salary would allow it.
The next generation Accord with its room, features, technology and updated styling could present an attractive option for buyers looking for more space, etc. at a more attractive price.
#2 man Acura has made the rounds locally to discuss the challenges facing local sales and what aggressive strategies may have to be implemented to increase awareness and ultimately sales, including dealer incentives, cash and aggressive leasing programs in the sub $300/mo range.
To date, nation-wide sales are within the 300-400 range. Dallas metro area may be doing better than others.
Dealers are committed to selling this car once an effective marketing strategy and pricing/leasing scheme comes in to being that addresses the real-world conditions the sales associates are encountering "in the trenches, day to day." That "sweet spot" has not yet been found. But it is hoped that when it (and the car) are discovered that sales will pick up.
Acura of Peoria has sold 3 ILXs to date. (PHX is the 5th largest city in the U.S.)
A return to the "classic names" of Acura (eg: Legend, Integra, Vigor) would no doubt drive more traffic to dealerships based on name recognition and past/positive association alone.
RDXs continues to sell "right of the truck" and has had little or no impact on MDX sales.
TSX wagon interest and sales have dropped dramatically. A small window of opportunity existed when interest was very high. Unfortunately that momentum was snuffed out when the tsunami and floodings severely impacted JP production....
FYI. HTH. FWIW.
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NealX
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These images are for 'hondadude' who expressed an interest in a compact 5-door vehicle:
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NealX
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owequitit wrote:
Neal wrote:
Just a few notes of import communicated to me - unbiased, unsolicited:
Biggest (initial) challenge continues to be getting potential buyers in to the show room to look at the car. They are unable to sit down with a potential buyer because no potential buyers are coming to the store expressing an interest.
Those who have looked at the car have commented that "it is not sexy enough" for the price of entry. There are "better options" at this price point.
The asking price is perceived as too high.
Hybrid mileage is not strong enough to justify the asking price.
Those outside of the "GenY" fold have already had their RSXs and G1 TSXs so this car offers no appeal to them.
An AT and/or Tech of the 2.4 could improve sales but the challenge of getting the buyers "in the door" would remain. |
It's almost as if some people called it. Oddly, an enthusiast focused vehicle/version would have gone a long way toward getting people into the showroom, even if they ended up walking out with a 2.0AT, because it would have seemed more interesting. Not to mention that enthusiast buzz would have driven interest outside of enthusiast groups.
It is good to see the comments around here about price/content/ performance were dead on, and it is good to see that I can still pick out a good product when I see one (also knew the RDX would do very well).
| Broadcast and web marketing are putting too much emphasis on the image/self-perception of the buyer rather than communicating the quality of the car - and that the car is shown too little within those adverts. |
When a product is effectively unmarketable (because it doesn't appeal to anyone), this is what you are left having to sell. The number one indicator of Honda's disconnect from reality is that they still believe the product should sell itself, and yet they totally fail to provide product that is capable of doing so (outside of their relatively few successes these days). If the car was what it SHOULD have been (nothing that would have been outlandish either, contrary to the people whining about people not liking it), then they wouldn't have needed all the fancy marketing to sell the stupid thing.
A return to the "classic names" of Acura (eg: Legend, Integra, Vigor) would no doubt drive more traffic to dealerships based on name recognition and past/positive association alone.
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This is a great idea, but the product would have to back it up. If it didn't live up to Acura expectations from 20+ years ago, then it would work for a short while to initially cause an increase in showroom traffic, but would ultimately fail, because despite whatever scheme is designed to get people in, the product still has to sell itself.
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NealX
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When viewed in isolation, I still believe the car was done quite well and its "failings" are easily remedied. (I enjoyed my day with the 2.4 and even today the car appeared quite handsome and aesthetically pleasing - 18s, please..!) Until then, I hope pride and arrogance will not be barriers to working through this (avoidable) predicament. And the burden of meeting sales goals doesn't now rest upon China. ;-)
Perhaps a good indicator of Acura's state of mind will be revealed in their PR statement accompanying the posting of June's sales numbers. They may well be "precisely crafting" that statement as we speak...
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owequitit
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Neal wrote:
When viewed in isolation, I still believe the car was done quite well and its "failings" are easily remedied. (I enjoyed my day with the 2.4 and even today the car appeared quite handsome and aesthetically pleasing - 18s, please..!) Until then, I hope pride and arrogance will not be barriers to working through this (avoidable) predicament. And the burden of meeting sales goals doesn't now rest upon China. ;-)
Perhaps a good indicator of Acura's state of mind will be revealed in their PR statement accompanying the posting of June's sales numbers. They may well be "precisely crafting" that statement as we speak...
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Neal, I agree totally. I was really looking forward to this car. It was right up my alley, but I wanted something that could at least provide some decent modicum of performance.
I didn't need 9K RPM, race suspension and 1 piece seats, but let's be honest, tires, brakes, an LSD, some upgraded sway bars etc would have made this a credible option. And it should have had tech. Sorry, that is just how I see it. Like I said, nothing outlandish (other than LSD and Tech, most of it wouldn't have even cost Honda more...).
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NealX
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Wanted add that the RLX was mentioned to be available for sale around December and there have been a few inquiries about the car and its rumored, advanced drivetrain.
The last week's combined RDX and ILX "debut party" (which include a ride and drive) had about 40 attendees and generated 3 additional RDX sales.
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CarmB
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Makes me wonder what the reaction might have been to offering this car in base form with the version of the 2.4L found in the NA Accord, or better still the same Earth Dreams motor that is going to appear in the next Accord.
There would be no fuel economy penalty with Option A and a gain with Option B. Across the board, the car would have had more punch and by making a 6-speed manual available, it would have meant all the bases would have been covered. Right now, if you want the bigger motor, you can't have the automatic or the tech package. Also, the price goes still higher. The current starting price only attached to a 2.4L, would have seemed more in line with what most customers would have had an interest in.
As I've stated before, I would have not made the hybrid available just yet, not with the dated tech available for a launch at this time. A follow-up with a hybrid for next model year using more advanced technology would have made more sense.
I think there is poor advanced planning as well in that if the next Accord gets better fuel economy than the base ILX, it makes a tough sell even tougher, especially if the ILX will recommend premium fuel and the Accord regular, as is the case right now.
Even if Acura had wanted to limit which versions the manual stick came in, they could have offered a sport version that added the stick in with assorted other performance upgrades to produce a sport version that would have generated more showroom traffic.
I think one could do a lot worse than consider this car, even with all its packaging blunders, in so much that there does appear to be a lot of quality built into it. I can certainly note that my 2008 CSX has been excellent. In four years, though with only about 65,000 km of use, I've had pretty much no issues. Once the tire pressure monitor seized up. Otherwise it's been regular maintenance. I would guess that the ILX will be similar. Sure the interior is a little smaller but not everyone is 6 ft. 3 in. and weighing in at 240 pounds. Not everyone carries tall adults in the back seat on a regular basis.
If I were looking at where to go next, I'd suggest that the Accord 4 replace the 2.0L and the 2.4L in the current car, making the manual and automatic available still with any configuration and putting in much better tech in the hybrid ASAP. Do that and the ILX has more of a chance. For one thing, being a lighter car, the ILX, using similar engine tech to the Accord, would be a faster, nimbler car, more fun to drive, I would imagine. That and a higher grade of interior would allow the ILX to find an audience.
The choices made with this car and the missteps associated with the Civic suggests that Honda's decision-making process doesn't allow for enough stepping back to consider the big picture. Odd.
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Gumbercules
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yea, they should have waited on the hybrid until better tech came along. It's simply not going to sell at a MPG rating in the high 30's when competitors are barking "40MPG HWY" everywhere. I know the ILX hybrid will get more average MPG than any car of similar or maybe even smaller size, but current marketing is going to lead to its failure.
I also agree on the advertising not showing enough of the ILX, its simply not letting people know why they should get one.
Also, some biggers wheel will help with its styling as the rest of the car looks good IMO. But the wheels make it look like a person holding its pants up and tip-toeing around water, lol.
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atomiclightbulb
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Neal wrote:
I had a chance to again visit my local Acura dealer here in Phoenix this morning - Sunday, June 17th - and had an extended conversation with a very kind and pragmatic sales manager.
As of this time they have sold ZERO ILXs in any trim or model.
...
RDXs continues to sell "right of the truck" and has had little or no impact on MDX sales. |
Neal, do you think there is a difference in the way the ILX is marketed versus the RDX? If there is a difference, does it explain why the RDX is flying off the lots in your area, while the ILX is not? Do more people simply know about RDX than the ILX?
The success of the new RDX actually reminds me of the success of the new Subaru Impreza.
Both vehicles had quirky, non-mainstream predecessors that were unique, but did not sell well. The RDX's combination of SH-AWD, K23T engine, and stiff ride are well known here. Acura made the RDX more spacious and more refined, and sales skyrocketed. For those who are not familiar with Subaru, the previous Impreza had a much more powerful engine than most compacts (a large , 170 HP Subaru EJ25 flat-4), but this returned pretty miserable fuel economy of 26-27 HWY when combined with Subaru's AWD system. When Subaru moved to a smaller 2.0L engine and CVT, improved ride quality, and made the interior bigger to accommodate mainstream tastes, they couldn't build enough to meet demand. The Subie dealers in my region sell these cars so quickly that they have a hard time keeping any stock on the lots.
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Louis87
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I was at the dealer last Thursday getting some routine maintenance on my TSX (07 6spd). I had a chance to look at the ILX they had on the showroom floor. I was impressed with the interior quality, the car has nice materials all around and overall a good layout. The back seat space was equal, if not better than my car (same leg room just more space under the seats for feet). The ILX just didn't grab my attention like I thought it would. I'm 24 (Gen Y?) and I'm not even going to pretend I know what kids my age want in a car, personally I would pass on the ILX. I spent maybe all of five mintues looking over it until I moved on to the 2nd gen TSX SE they had next to it. I don't know if it's because I'm already a TSX owner but something about the 2nd gen TSX appealed to me more. Everything from the TSX's understated but still handsome design, I prefer the TSX interior as well. The TSX in my view just makes more sense (for me), plus its pricing is more competitive than ILX.
The ILX will probably do fine once the TSX is gone and it has room to grow. I wish Acura would've stuck with building on the TSX though.
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DCR
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Louis87 wrote:
The ILX just didn't grab my attention like I thought it would. I'm 24 (Gen Y?) and I'm not even going to pretend I know what kids my age want in a car |
What are your priorities for a vehicle?
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Louis87
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DCR wrote:
Louis87 wrote:
The ILX just didn't grab my attention like I thought it would. I'm 24 (Gen Y?) and I'm not even going to pretend I know what kids my age want in a car |
What are your priorities for a vehicle?
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Nothing too crazy, but still handsome lines for the exterior. A logical well laid out interior with good quality with your basic luxury features (and whatever other bonus features my money can get me). Enough back seat space for two average adults to be comfortable for a couple of hours. Drivetrain wise I'm cool with FWD (it's the only type I've ever owned and I know what to expect at it's limits). A little over a decent amount of power relative to the cars weight for a little fun (the lighter the better lol). Preferably a small N/A v6 or a meaty N/A four. Athletic but compliant handling and a manual transmission in a package that's slightly bigger than a compact but smaller than a midsize class.
....probably why I'm so drawn to the TSX.
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Hondarulez
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I think the car is desperate for the ED powertrains.
The price is not that bad if you look into the details as the base model is pretty well equipped. However, most people don't really look into the details. They look at the base price, and will go , "whoa I'm not buying it's too much for a small car." I might get flamed for this but if there's a stripped down model below the current base model with a $3k cheaper price tag, it might help somewhat? The problem is, does Acura want to be that cheap.
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DCR
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Louis87 wrote:
Nothing too crazy, but still handsome lines for the exterior. A logical well laid out interior with good quality with your basic luxury features (and whatever other bonus features my money can get me). Enough back seat space for two average adults to be comfortable for a couple of hours. Drivetrain wise I'm cool with FWD (it's the only type I've ever owned and I know what to expect at it's limits). A little over a decent amount of power relative to the cars weight for a little fun (the lighter the better lol). Preferably a small N/A v6 or a meaty N/A four. Athletic but compliant handling and a manual transmission in a package that's slightly bigger than a compact but smaller than a midsize class.
....probably why I'm so drawn to the TSX.
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Could you glance at this article?
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-03-29/honda-prices-acura-ilx-to-attract-gen-y-buyers-from-bmw
In particular:
The 2013 ILX, which goes on sale in May, starts at about $27,000. It’s aimed at older “Generation-Y” customers who aspire to own a luxury vehicle and have limited income, Jeff Conrad, vice president of Honda’s Acura unit, said this month. Honda’s U.S. sales target is 40,000 annually of the ILX, which shares underpinnings with the Civic compact.
The target “seems pretty ambitious,” because younger drivers have been hurt the most by weakness in the job market since 2008, said Jessica Caldwell, an analyst for researcher Edmunds.com. “It’s a bit risky aiming your new vehicles at this group that’s basically falling off the map.” |
With your peers, who is closer to the mark...Conrad or Caldwell?
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A77
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I just spoke to one of our Acura dealers and they had had an allocation of just 6 units for June - and have sold all of them. June's total numbers will be interesting through - only 14 sold in may nationwide.
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NealX
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atomiclightbulb wrote:
Neal wrote:
I had a chance to again visit my local Acura dealer here in Phoenix this morning - Sunday, June 17th - and had an extended conversation with a very kind and pragmatic sales manager.
As of this time they have sold ZERO ILXs in any trim or model.
...
RDXs continues to sell "right of the truck" and has had little or no impact on MDX sales. |
Neal, do you think there is a difference in the way the ILX is marketed versus the RDX? If there is a difference, does it explain why the RDX is flying off the lots in your area, while the ILX is not? Do more people simply know about RDX than the ILX?
The success of the new RDX actually reminds me of the success of the new Subaru Impreza.
Both vehicles had quirky, non-mainstream predecessors that were unique, but did not sell well. The RDX's combination of SH-AWD, K23T engine, and stiff ride are well known here. Acura made the RDX more spacious and more refined, and sales skyrocketed. For those who are not familiar with Subaru, the previous Impreza had a much more powerful engine than most compacts (a large , 170 HP Subaru EJ25 flat-4), but this returned pretty miserable fuel economy of 26-27 HWY when combined with Subaru's AWD system. When Subaru moved to a smaller 2.0L engine and CVT, improved ride quality, and made the interior bigger to accommodate mainstream tastes, they couldn't build enough to meet demand. The Subie dealers in my region sell these cars so quickly that they have a hard time keeping any stock on the lots.
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Acura considers the markets for the RDX an ILX to be completely different. Unfortunately (for them) they are quite similar.
So I think it may come down to this:
Acura RDX (and MDX) buyers are willing to part with large dollars if the are sure they are getting the features and a "compelling" package for the money. The badge is immaterial. They buy thusly.
When they perform the same "analysis" on the ILX they simply walk away.
PS: Scottsdale, AZ is the home of the GenY, "$30,000 Millionaire." They have no interest in an ILX.
Unless it is given to them free... ;-)
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DrWhiner
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at least Acura of Peoria sold 3 ILX.
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NealX
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^Yes. They have a more "mainstream" demographic there: "West Side." Tempe, too.
There are 3 dealerships in this area: North Scottsdale, Peoria and Tempe.
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NealX
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Has anyone else visited their own local store to inspect the car or inquire about sales? Your personal read and local pulse is great - 'cause that's certainly where you're likely to spot them on the road.
And of course you know the area and locals well and what the auto bias is...
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NealX
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Just got off the phone with a salesperson in Tempe (our college town, home of ASU and other hipsters) to ask about the availability of the premium white w/black. Looks like end of July for me to check that out, as that's what I'd get...
I mentioned the sales of the other two dealerships including the 3 sold at Peoria. He said, "We've sold a handful - about that. People don't know about the car yet but it should pick up once the word gets out."
Perhaps I could get a good deal come August.
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superchg2
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Neal wrote:
Has anyone else visited their own local store to inspect the car or inquire about sales? Your personal read and local pulse is great - 'cause that's certainly where you're likely to spot them on the road.
And of course you know the area and locals well and what the auto bias is...
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Neal, in all honesty, my level of interest in the ILX is very low. If they had put just a little bit of flava' into the 2.4, I definitely would stop by the local Acura store. The price is about $5K on the high side, too.
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CivicB18
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The 2 major issues with the ILX are:
- Price
- Drivetrains
I know this car is Civic based but I really think Acura should have delivered more in terms of engines. Ditch the R20 and give it to the Civic. Make the 2.4 standard with a 7DCT or 6MT and have an optional sport package with the 2.4. Keep the hybrid trim but offer an Acura exclusive hybrid system which could be simply an updated more refined version of the system found in the Civic.
I really think Acura should have benchmarked the VW GTi as even though it doesnt wear a premium badge it's a damn good premium compact. Price the ILX between $25 - $31k.
~Patrick
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EXV6
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"Broadcast and web marketing are putting too much emphasis on the image/self-perception of the buyer rather than communicating the quality of the car - and that the car is shown too little within those adverts."
My sentiments exactly. I've seen the TV commercial for the ILX quite a few times. Acura needs to focus on the car instead of image. Aiming to so-called Gen X, Y or Z customers is not gonna work. That strategy failed with the Honda Element. Sell the car not self image. Acura has decent vehicles but the pricing is sometimes simply much too high. The now-deceased Acura RL, for example, was never a bad car, imo. It had classic styling, was powerful, luxurious and had good handling. It was just ridiculously overpriced at nearly $50k USD. If they had sold it between $35-38k to compete with the Lexus ES it might have done a lot better. I do hope the ILX is a success. It seems to be a nice little car. I don't think it is worth $30k-plus, regardless of what image it may convey. For that kind of money, I'd wait and check out upcoming Accord first.
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kirk
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It could be that the Acura dealers were clamoring for a new car in their showrooms to increase traffic and the car was introduced before it was actually ready for primetime.
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Hondu
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CivicB18 wrote:
The 2 major issues with the ILX are:
- Price
- Drivetrains
I know this car is Civic based but I really think Acura should have delivered more in terms of engines. Ditch the R20 and give it to the Civic. Make the 2.4 standard with a 7DCT or 6MT and have an optional sport package with the 2.4. Keep the hybrid trim but offer an Acura exclusive hybrid system which could be simply an updated more refined version of the system found in the Civic.
I really think Acura should have benchmarked the VW GTi as even though it doesnt wear a premium badge it's a damn good premium compact. Price the ILX between $25 - $31k.
~Patrick
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+1. I don't know how they think they can sell this car when fully equipped it is almost the same price as a TSX. The 2.0 either needs more power or lower price and the 2.4 needs to offer an auto.
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JimmyEats
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I visited my local Acura dealer within days of the ILX delivery back in May. I compared the interior size to the TSX, TSX wagon, and new RDX.
I thought everything was nice in the ILX, but it felt cramped. I think I expected a slight miracle that it would be larger than the Civic for the cost.
I still say the car makes sense in two years when Civics will cost $25k with an Earth Dreams engine. I think every car manufacturer is gearing up for cost to meet 2016 EPA standards. We'll probably see accusations of "price fixing" as every manufacturer raises prices together during this recession or early recovery.
The Elantra just had its price hike, so is everything else.
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CarmB
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superchg2 wrote:
Neal wrote:
Has anyone else visited their own local store to inspect the car or inquire about sales? Your personal read and local pulse is great - 'cause that's certainly where you're likely to spot them on the road.
And of course you know the area and locals well and what the auto bias is...
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Neal, in all honesty, my level of interest in the ILX is very low. If they had put just a little bit of flava' into the 2.4, I definitely would stop by the local Acura store. The price is about $5K on the high side, too.
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Drop the price by $5k and the ILX would be priced below a comparably equipped Civic. What a shock that Honda has gone a different route with its latest Acura. Who could have seen this coming.
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JMU R1
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Hondu wrote:
CivicB18 wrote:
The 2 major issues with the ILX are:
- Price
- Drivetrains
I know this car is Civic based but I really think Acura should have delivered more in terms of engines. Ditch the R20 and give it to the Civic. Make the 2.4 standard with a 7DCT or 6MT and have an optional sport package with the 2.4. Keep the hybrid trim but offer an Acura exclusive hybrid system which could be simply an updated more refined version of the system found in the Civic.
I really think Acura should have benchmarked the VW GTi as even though it doesnt wear a premium badge it's a damn good premium compact. Price the ILX between $25 - $31k.
~Patrick
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+1. I don't know how they think they can sell this car when fully equipped it is almost the same price as a TSX. The 2.0 either needs more power or lower price and the 2.4 needs to offer an auto.
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I think the 2.4 with an automatic tranny should be the standard engine. It'll put more distance between it and the Civic and it would represent a better value for the money.
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superchg2
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CarmB wrote:
superchg2 wrote:
Neal wrote:
Has anyone else visited their own local store to inspect the car or inquire about sales? Your personal read and local pulse is great - 'cause that's certainly where you're likely to spot them on the road.
And of course you know the area and locals well and what the auto bias is...
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Neal, in all honesty, my level of interest in the ILX is very low. If they had put just a little bit of flava' into the 2.4, I definitely would stop by the local Acura store. The price is about $5K on the high side, too.
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Drop the price by $5k and the ILX would be priced below a comparably equipped Civic. What a shock that Honda has gone a different route with its latest Acura. Who could have seen this coming.
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Since there has not exactly been a mad rush of customers to purchase this new model, I am curious what this different route might be?
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98EX4cyl
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JMU R1 wrote:
Hondu wrote:
CivicB18 wrote:
The 2 major issues with the ILX are:
- Price
- Drivetrains
I know this car is Civic based but I really think Acura should have delivered more in terms of engines. Ditch the R20 and give it to the Civic. Make the 2.4 standard with a 7DCT or 6MT and have an optional sport package with the 2.4. Keep the hybrid trim but offer an Acura exclusive hybrid system which could be simply an updated more refined version of the system found in the Civic.
I really think Acura should have benchmarked the VW GTi as even though it doesnt wear a premium badge it's a damn good premium compact. Price the ILX between $25 - $31k.
~Patrick
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+1. I don't know how they think they can sell this car when fully equipped it is almost the same price as a TSX. The 2.0 either needs more power or lower price and the 2.4 needs to offer an auto.
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I think the 2.4 with an automatic tranny should be the standard engine. It'll put more distance between it and the Civic and it would represent a better value for the money.
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It would distance it from the Civic but bring the ILX more in line with the TSX.
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