What is the timeframe for the Earth Dreams products? And are we starting to have information if ED will be on par on trailing competitive technologies?
I was super happy last year when I heard there is a future for Honda but all I am reading on different websites is all other manufacturers coming out with new and improved but very little is written on ED?
I will most likely trade in my S4 next year and it would be nice to go back to a Honda again as the family car :)
MarkR wrote: What is the timeframe for the Earth Dreams products? And are we starting to have information if ED will be on par on trailing competitive technologies?
I was super happy last year when I heard there is a future for Honda but all I am reading on different websites is all other manufacturers coming out with new and improved but very little is written on ED?
I will most likely trade in my S4 next year and it would be nice to go back to a Honda again as the family car :)
There really hasn't been a whole lot of info about ED, except that it will be adapted to existing engines, with DI being one of the changes. It sounds like the 2013 Accord will be the first recipient.
MarkR wrote: What is the timeframe for the Earth Dreams products? And are we starting to have information if ED will be on par on trailing competitive technologies?
I was super happy last year when I heard there is a future for Honda but all I am reading on different websites is all other manufacturers coming out with new and improved but very little is written on ED?
I will most likely trade in my S4 next year and it would be nice to go back to a Honda again as the family car :)
I posted some information on another thread.
Earth Dreams technology:
Next generation gasoline engine
Next generation CVTs
All new compact diesel engine
New Hybrid system
Electric powertrain for EVs
Accord is first out in 2012:
ED 2.4L and DI+CVT.
For 2013 and beyond:
1.3-1.5L ED with DI and CVT.
1.8-2.0L ED with DI and CVT.
3.5L ED with DI and 6AT.
Honda aim to achieve top-of-industry fuel efficiency and fun of driving for every category within three years.
The European Civic with the new ED 1.6L diesel will start production in 2012 for spring 2013 release. CR-V will also get the engine.
Top-of-industry lightweight
Reduces CO2 output by over 15% (95g/km)
MarkR wrote: What is the timeframe for the Earth Dreams products? And are we starting to have information if ED will be on par on trailing competitive technologies?
I was super happy last year when I heard there is a future for Honda but all I am reading on different websites is all other manufacturers coming out with new and improved but very little is written on ED?
I will most likely trade in my S4 next year and it would be nice to go back to a Honda again as the family car :)
Most of the info posted by P54 comes (in some way or another) from this presentation (link). There is really not much more up to date reliable info to find anywhere...
If anything, a few additional details:
- Next generation IMA (previously quoted as "Advanced IMA", guess Honda still has not decided on its name) will debut next year on 3rd gen Fit (Ito quoted by AutoNews).
- Accord Plug-In Hybrid Sedan launching next Winter.
Then we come to the most interesting part of that presentation... which is that they choose the Tokyo MS Concept to talk about the plug-in hybrid system. Now, we already know that the Accord sedan will use it in the US so ... why not adding a grayed out sedan ???
And here comes my most recent speculation on the future of the Global Accord/TSX/ILX/TL saga:
- The Accord as a sedan in Japan is dead, will be replaced with something alongside the Clarity/MS concept, which will be ground-braking and finally tailored to the home market tastes. Think about an "Accord class Prius".
- US gets TLX sedan, as they've always done.
Questions open? - Will Europe get US TLX or Japanese "Accord" (let's assume for a while it's called Accord)? Is Europe really for something like the MS Concept? I sure hope Honda gives it a try, because they really need to be unique over there if they want to get a chance to succeed.
- Will the US get the Japanese Accord in some kind of form? (Acura or not).
Supporting my conjectures:
- Why a new concept alongside the Clarity lines in 2012 Tokyo?
- Why showing an original Accord wagon on their forward-looking corporate add?
- Why insisting on showing the MS-Concept in their slides when they've already announced the Accord Sedan will use the plug-in stuff next winter?
- Together with the Beat rebirth, the Japanese Accord switching to some kind of "clarity-wagon" has been one of the most consistent and longstanding rumours in Japanese mags for years...
Sure those questions could find different answers, but that's the fun of speculating anyway !!!
mobis21 wrote: I'll need to see some real world comparison test and data before I would buy a new DI Accord.
Is the V6 going DI, or just the I4?
Based on Honda's latest info (on TOV), I would bet the Accord V6 won't be an Earth Dreams unit, only the i4. I'd expect the Accord V6 to follow the RDX route, maybe with a different tune but still a non DI SOHC VCM engine paired with the 6AT. What seems to be pretty good for a USD 34k+ Acura in early 2012 should be good enough for the Accord in fall 2012...
Again, might be just me, but the way I read that presentation the RLX will debut the ED V6 early 2013. Would expect the TLX to follow short afterwards, Accord needing to wait for maybe next FMC (MMC at its earliest) to get something based on it.
mobis21 wrote: I'll need to see some real world comparison test and data before I would buy a new DI Accord.
Is the V6 going DI, or just the I4?
Based on Honda's latest info (on TOV), I would bet the Accord V6 won't be an Earth Dreams unit, only the i4. I'd expect the Accord V6 to follow the RDX route, maybe with a different tune but still a non DI SOHC VCM engine paired with the 6AT. What seems to be pretty good for a USD 34k+ Acura in early 2012 should be good enough for the Accord in fall 2012...
Again, might be just me, but the way I read that presentation the RLX will debut the ED V6 early 2013. Would expect the TLX to follow short afterwards, Accord needing to wait for maybe next FMC (MMC at its earliest) to get something based on it.
Another piece of the puzzle which I noted here is that the RDX engine seems to have all the ED stuff except for the DI, notably the third cam profile which gives actual VTEC back along with the VCM! ;-) That's what I'm after more than anything!
mobis21 wrote: I'll need to see some real world comparison test and data before I would buy a new DI Accord.
Is the V6 going DI, or just the I4?
Based on Honda's latest info (on TOV), I would bet the Accord V6 won't be an Earth Dreams unit, only the i4. I'd expect the Accord V6 to follow the RDX route, maybe with a different tune but still a non DI SOHC VCM engine paired with the 6AT. What seems to be pretty good for a USD 34k+ Acura in early 2012 should be good enough for the Accord in fall 2012...
Again, might be just me, but the way I read that presentation the RLX will debut the ED V6 early 2013. Would expect the TLX to follow short afterwards, Accord needing to wait for maybe next FMC (MMC at its earliest) to get something based on it.
Another piece of the puzzle which I noted here is that the RDX engine seems to have all the ED stuff except for the DI, notably the third cam profile which gives actual VTEC back along with the VCM! ;-) That's what I'm after more than anything!
Really - I may have missed it but where does it say third cam? Acura made no mention of it at recent ride and drive. Just being my usual skeptical self.
mobis21 wrote: I'll need to see some real world comparison test and data before I would buy a new DI Accord.
Is the V6 going DI, or just the I4?
Based on Honda's latest info (on TOV), I would bet the Accord V6 won't be an Earth Dreams unit, only the i4. I'd expect the Accord V6 to follow the RDX route, maybe with a different tune but still a non DI SOHC VCM engine paired with the 6AT. What seems to be pretty good for a USD 34k+ Acura in early 2012 should be good enough for the Accord in fall 2012...
Again, might be just me, but the way I read that presentation the RLX will debut the ED V6 early 2013. Would expect the TLX to follow short afterwards, Accord needing to wait for maybe next FMC (MMC at its earliest) to get something based on it.
Another piece of the puzzle which I noted here is that the RDX engine seems to have all the ED stuff except for the DI, notably the third cam profile which gives actual VTEC back along with the VCM! ;-) That's what I'm after more than anything!
Really - I may have missed it but where does it say third cam? Acura made no mention of it at recent ride and drive. Just being my usual skeptical self.
For a minute while first driving the RDX and feeling how decently and willingly it pulled, I ALMOST thought it might have had the VTEC+VCM technology from ED but the verbiage in the press kit makes it sound like it doesn't, and according to the sticker on the side of the engine it's a J35Z2, which is the same engine found in a standard Accord V6 5AT.
Wouldn't it be something if the difference I felt was simply the difference between 87 (Accord V6) and 93 (RDX) octane gas? It seriously feels like an entirely different engine than the Accord V6. Well, I haven't driven an Accord V6 in a few years so maybe Honda has spiced up the ECU tuning a bit since the '08-'09 models.
Acura said to me the difference in feel was simply down to the way dbw had been set up - deliberately slow in the accord to help gas mileage.....whereas the RDX applies more gas for a given accelerator movement. So it feels quicker. And of course a 6 speed must help. Makes sense to me - the accord V6 feels slower than its spec indicates as it needs big accelerator shove to get going and also hesitates a bit before changing down. then again just about every mercedes I have driven also needs a hefty shove on the gas pedal before it does much.
"VCM II," and "i-VTEC" are mentioned, and the "i-VTEC" bullet point explains what we all know VTEC is supposed to do, therefore my speculation about three cam profiles, as we know there there is no "real" VTEC on the current Accord V6 automatics--the other cam controls the VCM.
Not trying to argue, just being hopeful! These changes would certainly be enough to justify Honda's claim about a "revised" V6 for the Accord, along with the 6-speed slusher.
I think this has been known since late last year:
CVT for ED 4 cylinders
6AT for V-6 models
7 DSG for top line models (possibly incorporating the new Hybrid system)
What is unknown is the 2-3 month old rumor about using a ZF sourced 9-speed transmission.
"VCM II," and "i-VTEC" are mentioned, and the "i-VTEC" bullet point explains what we all know VTEC is supposed to do, therefore my speculation about three cam profiles, as we know there there is no "real" VTEC on the current Accord V6 automatics--the other cam controls the VCM.
Not trying to argue, just being hopeful! These changes would certainly be enough to justify Honda's claim about a "revised" V6 for the Accord, along with the 6-speed slusher.
My bet:
- Guys designing websites and filling them with content aren't engineers. For building such commercial websites they simply go and copy-paste stuff that's readily available.
- I wouldn't be surprised if that "i-VTEC" description is similar accross the Acura line-up, the guy putting it there knew very little about anything VTEC, and he obviated the fact that, unlike its brothers, VTEC is used in the RDX engine in a smart (intelligent) way to deactivate the cylinders (i.e. the "low profile cams" have zero lift for all valves of selected cylinders).
I think this has been known since late last year:
CVT for ED 4 cylinders
6AT for V-6 models
7 DSG for top line models (possibly incorporating the new Hybrid system)
What is unknown is the 2-3 month old rumor about using a ZF sourced 9-speed transmission.
I think this has been known since late last year:
CVT for ED 4 cylinders
6AT for V-6 models
7 DSG for top line models (possibly incorporating the new Hybrid system)
What is unknown is the 2-3 month old rumor about using a ZF sourced 9-speed transmission.
Which most likely means cvt for the ILX as well?
How about products like the CR-V? Does Honda wait for the typical MMC (Fall '14 as a 2015 model) to phase the ED in? Seems like a long wait ... a CVT to boot. That'll be a different animal altogether.
A77 wrote: Acura said to me the difference in feel was simply down to the way dbw had been set up - deliberately slow in the accord to help gas mileage.....whereas the RDX applies more gas for a given accelerator movement. So it feels quicker. And of course a 6 speed must help. Makes sense to me - the accord V6 feels slower than its spec indicates as it needs big accelerator shove to get going and also hesitates a bit before changing down. then again just about every mercedes I have driven also needs a hefty shove on the gas pedal before it does much.
No doubt the 6th speed makes up a lot of it.
The really stupid, stupid part is that you can have both types of accelerator feel in the same car - with a button that changes the modes - like almost every other car manufacturer provides!
I've been screaming for this type of tech for the RLegendo since day dot! When will Honda pull it's finger out and do some real catch up with it's electronics and what it includes in it's cars?
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