|
|
|
|
 |
Jesse
 |
|
Continuing on the ZDX, I've mentioned this in a past post, it's just unfortunate that that vehicle came out at the wrong time. Apart from the economy blahs, Acura was in the midst of an identity crisis plus they had no proper halo vehicle. Indirectly the ZDX became Acura's halo vehicle (which it was never meant to be one) because it was the most expensive.
|
DCR
|
|
I am not sure anything could have made the ZDX a success, save a 60% reduction in price. I remember reading an article/interview about the design, and I found it again.
This gives you an idea of how Acura designers approached it, and it gives you a sense of how they have approached most things since then.
http://www.caranddriver.com/news/acura-designers-zdx-concept-interview
|
MasterOfDaDomain
|
|
|
Agree. Imagine Steve Jobs listens to focus groups.
|
duncan
|
|
Jesse wrote:
Continuing on the ZDX, I've mentioned this in a past post, it's just unfortunate that that vehicle came out at the wrong time. Apart from the economy blahs, Acura was in the midst of an identity crisis plus they had no proper halo vehicle. Indirectly the ZDX became Acura's halo vehicle (which it was never meant to be one) because it was the most expensive.
|
Recession or not, beautiful or ugly, the ZDX would still be the sales dud it is now regardless. We're not talking about a good idea that wasn't executed properly, but rather the idea was stupid to start with. The underlying issue with this car is that there's simply no market for it, period. I'm not even sure Acura executives really know to this day who they're actually trying to sell this car to. The C/D interview posted by DCR is just a bunch of corporate mumble jumble that means nothing. Just look at the X6--even with BMW's brand cache behind it, it's come no where close to selling the 40,000/yr BMW had originally targeted. This SUV coupe "thingy" concept is a niche-within-a-niche vehicle, and only a brand that has a fully rounded out line-up of products can take a gamble on it and get away with it (as is the case w/ BMW). But for Acura, a brand that's undergoing an identity crisis (as you've pointed out) with a flawed product line with plenty of holes in it, the concept of a ZDX is a total misallocation of resources and priority.
|
Nick GravesX
|
|
notyper wrote:
+1 Atomic Frog.
I was solicited for a bunch of paid marketing studies after I bought my S2000 back in MY00. Some they didn't choose to use me and sent me home with a $100 bill, sometimes I got to participate in a focus group. In the latter, the questions were always very leading and you were usually limited to a selection of multiple choice answers. Now, I do understand that if you don't limit answers it can be very difficult to interpret the results, but that is a major problem with focus groups.
IMO, I think you find a guy or group of designers who has a good vision and creates good designs and then you stick with them. Look, how many of us would buy one of Neal's creations if Honda made it? I think a lot more than would buy what they're putting out. Find guys like that and give them jobs. It isn't that hard IMO.
SC
|
That's precisely my preconception; and I'd load the questions such that the focus group would prove me right.
|
Mr. Taggart
|
|
Nick Graves wrote:
notyper wrote:
+1 Atomic Frog.
I was solicited for a bunch of paid marketing studies after I bought my S2000 back in MY00. Some they didn't choose to use me and sent me home with a $100 bill, sometimes I got to participate in a focus group. In the latter, the questions were always very leading and you were usually limited to a selection of multiple choice answers. Now, I do understand that if you don't limit answers it can be very difficult to interpret the results, but that is a major problem with focus groups.
IMO, I think you find a guy or group of designers who has a good vision and creates good designs and then you stick with them. Look, how many of us would buy one of Neal's creations if Honda made it? I think a lot more than would buy what they're putting out. Find guys like that and give them jobs. It isn't that hard IMO.
SC
|
That's precisely my preconception; and I'd load the questions such that the focus group would prove me right.
|
I am still trying to figure how focus groups said that they wanted bigger windows and more glass in the current Accrod. Maybe the marketing types mis understood that the groups felt the beltlines were too high compared to older Hondas where you felt like yoiu could see forever.
Or maybe like you said they asked questions that were leading where they wanted to go. And Violá we have the Cross Tour and answer to a question no one really asked.
Love the interior and room but would been much bettter as a proper wagon. I think if they made Neals changes it would even be livable.
There have been people here posting electronic petitions, maybe we should start one that asks Honda to hire Neal.
|
Jesse
|
|
duncan wrote:
Recession or not, beautiful or ugly, the ZDX would still be the sales dud it is now regardless. We're not talking about a good idea that wasn't executed properly, but rather the idea was stupid to start with. The underlying issue with this car is that there's simply no market for it, period. I'm not even sure Acura executives really know to this day who they're actually trying to sell this car to. The C/D interview posted by DCR is just a bunch of corporate mumble jumble that means nothing. Just look at the X6--even with BMW's brand cache behind it, it's come no where close to selling the 40,000/yr BMW had originally targeted. This SUV coupe "thingy" concept is a niche-within-a-niche vehicle, and only a brand that has a fully rounded out line-up of products can take a gamble on it and get away with it (as is the case w/ BMW). But for Acura, a brand that's undergoing an identity crisis (as you've pointed out) with a flawed product line with plenty of holes in it, the concept of a ZDX is a total misallocation of resources and priority.
|
Agree. Acura should not have delved into extremely-niche vehicles while they were still (and still are ATM) struggling in finding their identity and ironing out their lineup.
|
WongKN
|
|
Sometimes it is not focus groups. This was told to me by an ex-Honda Malaysia product planner (used to be in charge of Accord and Civic).
At a strategic product planning held in Honda HQ in Thailand, local (i.e. country product planners) were asked what kind of Accord they want. All of them replied 'a sporty Accord'. No-one could explain exactly what they really want, other than the term 'a sporty Accord'. So the R&D people had to decipher for them. They took a look around and say "look, the US is the largest market for the Accord. It is super successful there. And americans certainly likes sporty cars. So, what the ASEAN countries wants must be the USDM Accord." I am not sure if this story is exactly true or not, but this was supposed to be why ASEAN and most of Asia keep getting the US version Accords.
So when this guy was at the planning meeting where they were deciding on the Civic, at that time the 'next gen' Civic after the 7Gen (what was to be the 8Gen), what he did was he printed a photo of the JDM Civic and when the question was asked "what kind of Civic do you guys want ?", he took out the photo and said "THIS ONE, the one from Japan". Supposedly this was why ASEAN got the JDM version of the 8Gen Civic.
Not sure how accurate this annecdote is so take it FWIW.
|
FiSH-Chan
|
|
WongKN wrote:
At a strategic product planning held in Honda HQ in Thailand, local (i.e. country product planners) were asked what kind of Accord they want. All of them replied 'a sporty Accord'. No-one could explain exactly what they really want, other than the term 'a sporty Accord'. So the R&D people had to decipher for them. They took a look around and say "look, the US is the largest market for the Accord. It is super successful there. And americans certainly likes sporty cars. So, what the ASEAN countries wants must be the USDM Accord." I am not sure if this story is exactly true or not, but this was supposed to be why ASEAN and most of Asia keep getting the US version Accords.
So when this guy was at the planning meeting where they were deciding on the Civic, at that time the 'next gen' Civic after the 7Gen (what was to be the 8Gen), what he did was he printed a photo of the JDM Civic and when the question was asked "what kind of Civic do you guys want ?", he took out the photo and said "THIS ONE, the one from Japan". Supposedly this was why ASEAN got the JDM version of the 8Gen Civic.
Not sure how accurate this annecdote is so take it FWIW.
|
That was quite funny, the way you put it. Don't know if you meant for it to be funny, but it's very funny to me. Sounds like the kind of intense decision making my friends and I make when thinking about places to eat after badminton.... :D
|
Mr. Taggart
|
|
This is true in many companies. The further you get away from the core compentenciew of the company (In Honda's case engineering) you end up having trying to design something to an empty word or words. This also comes from the dreaded marketing group when they tell senior managment they can meet the impossible sales goals set.
For instance in the past would Honda set the goals for a vehicle to be specific. As an example:
Class leading handling; a firm ride that communicates the road conditions but does not ride so harsh as to distract for the ride. You would then list the target cars for handling. From what I heard a long time ago the Accord's handlng bogey used to be the 3 series.
It also happens when management does not get out in the field to know the customers. This means the dealer owners, sales and service staff and the end customers. They can help to define what is needed. At Southwest Airlines anyone with the title of manager or higher must go visit at least four stations (airport operations) per year. I remember hearing one time that Herb Kelleher personally visited every station at least once a year.
Sounds like none of this was happening so the picture was the next best thing. At least it was not a picture of a Carolla
|
WongKN
|
|
The story was told to me as a light hearted description of an event that actually happened. The guy is a big time Honda enthusiast, used to have a CR-X (which some idiot in a truck crashed into and crushed it) and now is rebuilding an old EF Civic sedan. He is also a huge TOVA fan and supporter. Sadly, Honda Malaysia did not treat him that well and he is now head of product planning at KIA Malaysia. Under his leadership, the Kia Forte has seen great success here in Malaysia.
But yes, I too find it an amusing story and we had a big laugh out of it.
|
owequitit
|
|
Mr. Taggart wrote:
This is true in many companies. The further you get away from the core compentenciew of the company (In Honda's case engineering) you end up having trying to design something to an empty word or words. This also comes from the dreaded marketing group when they tell senior managment they can meet the impossible sales goals set.
For instance in the past would Honda set the goals for a vehicle to be specific. As an example:
Class leading handling; a firm ride that communicates the road conditions but does not ride so harsh as to distract for the ride. You would then list the target cars for handling. From what I heard a long time ago the Accord's handlng bogey used to be the 3 series.
It also happens when management does not get out in the field to know the customers. This means the dealer owners, sales and service staff and the end customers. They can help to define what is needed. At Southwest Airlines anyone with the title of manager or higher must go visit at least four stations (airport operations) per year. I remember hearing one time that Herb Kelleher personally visited every station at least once a year.
Sounds like none of this was happening so the picture was the next best thing. At least it was not a picture of a Carolla
|
Southwest is also a good example, because IMO, Honda's bigger issue lies in the lack of finding clearly suitable replacements. It was OK for awhile, but someone here posted a link to a book about how the beancounters actually started to gain control of the company back in the 1980's through a power struggle. One of the biggest failings of a dynamic company like Honda (or Southwest, or Apple), is in finding a successor or set of successors who will continue to drive forward in the vision of the company's founders.
I understand that in the case of Southwest, they are highly decentralized, and very "free" to make choices, but they did a good job of having a plan in place about how they were going to pass the torch on and to whom. When one of the replacements didn't quite work out in the way they had hoped, it was corrected very quickly.
I actually love Southwest, and hope to work there someday, and they stand out as an example in my mind of how to do right what Honda is doing wrong. Southwest made a lot of multi-billion dollar gambles on intuition and not on focus groups. In fact, I think I have an interview article with Herb around here somewhere where he specifically talks about focus groups. It may have had something to do with the introduction of trans-con flights, and how Southwest was afraid they would have to change completely to do it, and focus groups told them that. But they decided to do it the way they thought was best anyway, and it was wildly successful (as well all know).
Apple is another good example because Steve Jobs couldn't STAND focus groups and I don't see Ivy using them much either. Steve Jobs was quoted as saying "people don't know what they want until we show it to them" or something to that effect.
|
|
|
| |
|
| Thread Page - 1 [2] |
| |
|
![[home]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/home.gif){kind=small}
![[rumors and news]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/rumors.gif){kind=small}
![[model release matrix]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/newmodelreleasematrix.gif){kind=small}
![[dealer network]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/dealernet.gif){kind=small}
![[desktop calendar]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/calendar.gif){kind=small}
![[exhaust notes]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/exhaust.gif){kind=small}
![[tov forums]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/forums.gif){kind=small}
![[links]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/links.gif){kind=small}
![[search]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/search.gif){kind=small}
![[sponsors]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/sponsors.gif){kind=small}
![[garage]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/garage.gif){kind=small}
![[login]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/login.gif){kind=small}
