Bence
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Powered by Honda wrote:
True then why does every Ferrari have long overhangs. F430 and the Enzo and many more!
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When I'd be you, I'd spend a couple of hours meditating and trying to comprehend the packaging of different architectures.
Here with the Enzo, we have a mid-engine car equipped with a long V12 engine+transmission. This is the first thing that dictates the position of the cabin. The wheelbase can't be too long because handling would suffer. And lastly, the front should have enough crush space (and trunk, cooling ducts, aero components, etc.). Add brand specific design/styling touches to this mix, and you have an end result like this. Purposes of racing and speed rule over the pen.
Ferrari chose a path which favors handling vs. directional stability. Besides, if you would position the wheels more to the front, the lines of the fenders should have be way steeper. This was clearly not the objective of Ferrari.
And as much I like the sensible Japanese design (yes, including gardens, pagodas, etc.), I can't say that the Enzo is a particularly eye-catching or harmonic piece of art. It's definitely not the best work of its designer, Ken Okuyama.
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sugaki
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Powered by Honda wrote:
True then why does every Ferrari have long overhangs. F430 and the Enzo and many more!
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Because you don't understand basic car architecture.
One of the big priorities in the Enzo's design (and maybe why it's so ugly) is downforce. To that end, they wanted a lot of downforce up front. You'd need some overhang space to do that. Furthermore, A mid-engine RWD is always going to be rear-biased in weight. They'd need to put some weight up front to better balance the car.
It's the exact opposite in front engine, RWD. The front will be more biased with the engine, so you'd want the engine as far back as possible, with little overhang.
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Powered by Honda
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its not just the ENZO...look at the F430 its not designed to do what the enzo does its more of a looker and hollywood car yet the overhang is 1 meter.
This convertible was designed to show off and go slow not race.
Everytime I see a Honda/Acura with Long overhang I think man it looks so Ferrari like. BEAUTIFUL! Front overhang is design that shows elegance.
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mobis21
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nj wrote:
I don't really understand the beef with the front hang being big. I honestly can barely tell the difference between the overhang here and on that of a 5 series or an A6. Is the average buyer really going to notice something like that? The front end including the hood should (IMO) have a good heft. This looks pretty average for the sgement. Much better than the mini front overhang and massive rear on the XTS.
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I don't get it either. Completely don't understand someone fasinated with overhangs. Should they be bigger or smaller, and why?
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Bence
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Powered by Honda wrote:
...its not just the ENZO...look at the F430 its not designed to do what the enzo does its more of a looker and hollywood car yet the overhang is 1 meter.
This convertible was designed to show off and go slow not race...
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You don't believe what you're saying, do you?
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Bence
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mobis21 wrote:
I don't get it either. Completely don't understand someone fasinated with overhangs. Should they be bigger or smaller, and why?
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Just forget the overhang OK? It's not just the overhang, but the RELATION of the overhang
- to the overall proportions/balance of the design
- to the position of the front wheel
- to the position of the leading edge of the front door
- to the distance between the front wheelarc vs. the leading edge of the front door
etc.
So if the basic visual ratios are correct, the design will be a cohesive, expressive, harmonious one.
A long overhang like the RLX's looks nose-heavy and because it's a FWD platform, and it IS de facto nose heavy.
So, once again, it's not the overhang alone, but the position of the front wheel (because of the rules of packaging - as the tranny is behind the engine, so you can't push the wheels wherever you want). It's rather the wheel is too far behind, it's too close to the cabin, which makes the proportions look clumsy and without grace.
Sixpack = short overhang = sportiness, looks tight
Beerbelly = long overhang = laziness, looks s#it
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NickDC5
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lol @ people posting cars with the engine mounted behind the driver for comparison.
Front overhang on the Enzo and 430 is for downforce. The car has no weight in the front and needs to be slippery but also pressed into the ground by air. Also, notice the hood line is MUCH lower to the ground. The hood isn't 3 feet in the air. The car maintains excellent proportions by not having a big chunky front. It has a long, thin front. If you're going to have a big chunky front, don't stick it ten feet over the front wheels.
You said the convertible wasn't designed to race... but you're forgetting Ferrari can't make a convertible version of the 430 without making a 430 coupe first. :)
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NickDC5
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Also the Enzo is widely regarded as being ugly as hell. As aesthetics go, it's a failure. We are all talking purely about looks anyhow.
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NickDC5
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Here's a Ferrari that actually has an engine in the front. The hood is very long and very low, unlike the RLX. Look where the windshield meets the hood on this car. Look where the fender meets the beginning of the door. The overhang is in proportion to the rest of the car and it doesn't look frumpy.
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S600=Dream
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...I can't believe you guys are talking about Ferrari's.
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Powered by Honda
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NickDC5 wrote:
Here's a Ferrari that actually has an engine in the front. The hood is very long and very low, unlike the RLX. Look where the windshield meets the hood on this car. Look where the fender meets the beginning of the door. The overhang is in proportion to the rest of the car and it doesn't look frumpy.
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Thats the same overhang as the RLX that 599. Maybe same front and rear! Look at the rlx closely. So basically the RLX is a 599 Ferrari. Gorgeous! Honda did it!
very similar. I think Honda looked at this ferrari as inspiration.
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NickDC5
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Not sure why you're being sarcastic to me...
What I'm saying is the hood is long and low. If you keep the hood long and low, you can pull off a good bit of overhang. If your hood is short and high up, it looks ridiculous with a bunch of front overhang, because that's half of your hood. At least the engine is in the front in the 599, unlike the other Ferraris people are posting.
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ClementZ
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Powered by Honda wrote:
NickDC5 wrote:
Here's a Ferrari that actually has an engine in the front. The hood is very long and very low, unlike the RLX. Look where the windshield meets the hood on this car. Look where the fender meets the beginning of the door. The overhang is in proportion to the rest of the car and it doesn't look frumpy.
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Thats the same overhang as the RLX that 599. Maybe same front and rear! Look at the rlx closely. So basically the RLX is a 599 Ferrari. Gorgeous! Honda did it!
very similar. I think Honda looked at this ferrari as inspiration.
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Dude was referring to proportions.
The Ferrari has a large space between the leading edge of the door and the wheelwell, due to its longitudinal V12. While I won't base whether or not I buy a car by the size of this space alone, a lot of luxury buyers do, because this space gives a feel of power and prestige that economy cars (which all lack the large space) don't.
While the 599 and RLX may have large overhangs of a similar size, the 599 has a large space after the front wheel that makes the front end look balanced. The RLX doesn't. It looks more front-heavy than it actually is, and it makes the hood look shorter than it actually is.
I still think the RLX is quite a handsome cars, regardless of the front-heavy appearance. But that appearance will, and probably has turned away many a potential customer.
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jero
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Exactly.
Look at where the base of the windshield is in relation to the center of the front wheel.
The E36 BMW still has one of the finest designs related to minimum front overhang IMO.
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NSXforever
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NickDC5 wrote:
lol @ people posting cars with the engine mounted behind the driver for comparison.
Front overhang on the Enzo and 430 is for downforce. The car has no weight in the front and needs to be slippery but also pressed into the ground by air. Also, notice the hood line is MUCH lower to the ground. The hood isn't 3 feet in the air. The car maintains excellent proportions by not having a big chunky front. It has a long, thin front. If you're going to have a big chunky front, don't stick it ten feet over the front wheels.
You said the convertible wasn't designed to race... but you're forgetting Ferrari can't make a convertible version of the 430 without making a 430 coupe first. :)
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It is one of the worse arguments I have ever seen. Comparing a sedan to Ferrari cars? WTH? lol
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