nj
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I don't really understand the beef with the front hang being big. I honestly can barely tell the difference between the overhang here and on that of a 5 series or an A6. Is the average buyer really going to notice something like that? The front end including the hood should (IMO) have a good heft. This looks pretty average for the sgement. Much better than the mini front overhang and massive rear on the XTS.
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JeffX
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nj wrote:
I don't really understand the beef with the front hang being big. I honestly can barely tell the difference between the overhang here and on that of a 5 series or an A6. Is the average buyer really going to notice something like that? The front end including the hood should (IMO) have a good heft. This looks pretty average for the sgement. Much better than the mini front overhang and massive rear on the XTS.
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Yes, I think the overhang and front axle position just look wrong. The golden ratio is the golden ratio for a reason.
Audi's do have long overhangs but the overall ratios and axle placement are better than what Acura has been doing.
I expect more from a "flagship".
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NealX
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"Golden Ratio?" At this point I'd settle for Silver or Bronze...
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TonyEX
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Neal wrote:
"Golden Ratio?" At this point I'd settle for Silver or Bronze...
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Nice to have you back.... ;-)
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Mikeydred
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Jeff wrote:
nj wrote:
I don't really understand the beef with the front hang being big. I honestly can barely tell the difference between the overhang here and on that of a 5 series or an A6. Is the average buyer really going to notice something like that? The front end including the hood should (IMO) have a good heft. This looks pretty average for the sgement. Much better than the mini front overhang and massive rear on the XTS.
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Yes, I think the overhang and front axle position just look wrong. The golden ratio is the golden ratio for a reason.
Audi's do have long overhangs but the overall ratios and axle placement are better than what Acura has been doing.
I expect more from a "flagship".
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Jeff when you first saw the RLX you stated that the front overhangs were moderate and even compared it to Audi. When I saw the concept at NY I didn’t think it was bad, even the spy shots show a pretty decent overhang, if anything the rear has more of a overhang. I think everyone is over reacting to a computer generated image, same images that showed the NSX with an ungainly overhang. Let’s wait until the official images are released….
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Mr. Taggart
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The rear looks like a Kardashian.
Maybe it is to attack famous athletes to the vehicle.
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TurkMan71
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The overhang is a metaphor for Acura (Honda) - it's not bad, but it could be sooo much better...
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HONDA AFVM
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Neal wrote:
"Golden Ratio?" At this point I'd settle for Silver or Bronze...
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Sooooooooooooooooo Glad to see you back.........
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montechester
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Actually, No, I don't believe it CAN be much less than what it is given the drivetrain layout and crash/pedestrian impact requirements. And by "requirements", I mean both imposed by governmental/insurance industry AND those self imposed by Honda. Honda does not aim to simply MEET safety requirements but always aims to improve upon their own very high standards. If that means a bit more crush structure is required, then so be it.
TurkMan71 wrote:
The overhang is a metaphor for Acura (Honda) - it's not bad, but it could be sooo much better...
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NealX
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Just here for a bit to help a friend...
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Jesse
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Just moving the front wheels a bit forward makes a huge difference.
It's the grille that caught my attention - it's huge! Huge shiny metal bar...
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shaymasdaddy
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I believe the overhangs in the patent photos are exaggerated because the small size of the tires and wheels make it more pronounced. We've seen enough of the actual spy shots to know that the front overhang is not 'that' long. Like the end though and believe it will look even better in person....
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WingZ
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Not sure if this was discussed but there's a 3:10 rolling video of the RLX link on the Acura.com website. The wheels are growing on me but I still hate the bottom body moulding. Just cheapens it IMHO.
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Koya76
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Overhangs due to limits of stretching the Accord platform?
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TurkMan71
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montechester wrote:
Actually, No, I don't believe it CAN be much less than what it is given the drivetrain layout and crash/pedestrian impact requirements. And by "requirements", I mean both imposed by governmental/insurance industry AND those self imposed by Honda. Honda does not aim to simply MEET safety requirements but always aims to improve upon their own very high standards. If that means a bit more crush structure is required, then so be it.
TurkMan71 wrote:
The overhang is a metaphor for Acura (Honda) - it's not bad, but it could be sooo much better...
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The long looks of the overhang can be mitigated like others have mentioned - if you're gonna keep the overhangs then add some inches between the front wheel and front door...
This looks like a FWD sedan - that does not emote luxury usually. It usually screams cost-cutting, platform-sharing, risk-adverse lame duck - ie: current RL :-(
This is not about lessening safety, it's about giving the allusion...you know fake it till ya make it...in Acura's case, probably will never make it so you better fake it reeeeeaaaal good.
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Bence
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Yup, unfortunately a generic FWD-look. Looks already dated and oozes nothing special. This packaging tells a tale about bean-counterism and efficiency (not in a good way). Luxury is about a certain positive overflow...
Just lengthen the line of the front window/A-pillar and see where it touches the ground. You can see that the front wheel is stumbled under awkwardly and ruins the whole front of the car. It's not phallic enough, not proud enough. It's not just the overhang, it's the packaging of the driveline. The character arc above the front wheels just amplifies/emphasizes the front pull feeling which makes the rear of the car optically dead and weak.
In 1991 when the 2nd gen Legend debuted in Geneva, the boss of Mercedes-Benz, Werner Niefer hurried through the halls, but literally froze when he saw the Legend - thinking it was a RWD vehicle. That thing had GREAT proportions.
Time to switch back to the old architecture - Audi uses the idea very neatly!!!
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DCR
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First look at the profile instantly reminded me of the front hang of the Accord coupe I had.
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starbai
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at least the accord looks good... i never understood the need for the overhang... does the motor not fit without it or something?
it looks totally off proportion... and totally kills it against the likes of the Lex. LS which has got to be due for an update/redesign soon...
Nothing other than the headlights scream flagship in any way.
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HondaFan1990
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Well let's remember that Acuras flagship is different from that of Lexus, MB, Audi, etc. Look at Infiniti. Their flagship sedan is the M. The M does not compete against the A8, 7 Series, et al. but rather their midsize models the A6 and 5 Series. This is what the RL does. The flagship is usually the model that showcases the halo and flagship tech of the brand along with being the most expensive. It just so happens that with the other luxury brands, their flagship is also their largest sedan. So for Acura, we get the RL. Their biggest sedan with the most tech. So far, the RL looks good to my eyes. It looks like it will do well against the cars its targeting, and this is key. Let's not bump it up a class just because we want Acura to compete on that higher level. That just isn't fair. Plus, this is just a pic. Actual production cars should have a lot more "pop" or "oooh and aahhhh".
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Chocs
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Actually, it's the concept that should have a lot more "pop". People have seen THAT one.
Sure it might look fine in real life, but I honestly think they should have gone with hard and handsome lines found on the NSX concept. A flagship should display a brand's essence in the most focused expression.
If Acura is fine with looking "okay" then they are playing on the wrong field..
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silverTL6
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starbai wrote:
it looks totally off proportion... and totally kills it against the likes of the Lex. LS which has got to be due for an update/redesign soon...
Nothing other than the headlights scream flagship in any way.
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Even the headlights don't scream flagship - they are essentially ILX headlights (which are basically fancy Civic headlights) with LED's. Congrats Acura, you've created another Accord-like flagship, this time with Civic inspired headlights!
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shaymasdaddy
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Well said. In most cases, the pic is never better than the real thing!! : )
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montechester
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I'm 99% sure these are not photographs but actually flattened CAD models that have been somewhat toned down for submission to EU for patent purposes. It's already mentioned that the wheels/tires are generic and not representative. These definately don't have the look of being photos of a real car.
Jeff, was there any indication in the source material that indicated these were actual photos? Could there have been some issue with language translation? I know IMAGE in some languages is interchangable with PHOTO or PICTURE, but in this case, the distinction is important. A few other articles I can find with these same images all are careful to call them drawings or images. None mention Photos specifically.
In any case, I think we can all agree, these gray scale solid model images don't do much for the car.
Thanks
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Bence
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Bence wrote:
...it's the packaging of the driveline....
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Obviously, I meant powertrain...
BTW this is the end result when someone tries to overpump the existing Accord architecture. Yes, it works to a certain point, and to a certain "class" (read: generic appliance with nonexisting noble aspirations).
Unfortunately, in the premium E-segment it is faaaar from enough.
And yes, such light grey CAD drawings don't represent the car in its entirety, especially when it's new, clean, sparkling - but this is basically what you will see on the street after a couple of rainy days. A slightly dirty, unremarkable, uninspiring sedan.
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integrator
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The one thing that comes to my mind when I look at this car's design (including the overhang lengths) is: does it represent the Acura name and what they're trying to project as their image?
Because of the whole 'Acura. Advance.' promotional slogan, their advertisements, and their past vehicles reputations, I always think Acura should have a modern look, in addition to driving with some advanced performance capabilities and having the electronic doo-dads. While the last two may be present, this looks just plain 'Old School Limousine' to me. I agree with Jeff - it doesn't say 'flagship', 'Advanced' or even remarkable in any way. Whats become of Acura is really unfortunate - and its all just poor management decisions (in approval of their direction, product planning, and design). Even new n shiny (and with those new headlights), I fear this will follow the previous RL into obscurity.
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sugaki
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nj wrote:
I don't really understand the beef with the front hang being big. I honestly can barely tell the difference between the overhang here and on that of a 5 series or an A6. Is the average buyer really going to notice something like that? The front end including the hood should (IMO) have a good heft. This looks pretty average for the sgement. Much better than the mini front overhang and massive rear on the XTS.
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Sigh, sometimes I can't tell whether you're just trolling. Looks like a 5 SERIES overhang? Are you serious?
And it's not a problem with just the overhang. Some RWD cars have a pretty hefty overhang. The problem is the ratio of front overhang to space between the front wheel arch and the firewall. Making that firewall space longer provides a better visual balance. An Audi A6 (also FWD mind you) looks 10x more balanced because of that firewall space, which allows for a longer hood. This, combined with the hood going lower toward the front provides pleasant symmetry.
Acura does the exact opposite, which is why the front overhang looks so jarringly big. High front end, short firewall space, big overhang. All of which accentuate that it's FWD.
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NealX
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^This photo well describes what I meant by a "hub-centric view" which displays true front overhang and the importance of the space immediately behind the wheel well and the leading edge of the front door.
In my "TOV-Type RLX" rendering I did not change the length of the hood nor the fender, but "simply" moved the wheel 2-3" forward. A little goes a long ways, visually...
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Bence
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Yup, but as I mentioned earlier in a similar post, the hardware packaging dictates the basic design. With a transverse V6, you can't move the wheels forward because the tranny/halfshafts define where the wheels are. Even the Bentley Continental/Flying Spur has a seriously compromised appearance because of this FWD architecture, but the rounded corners can fool the eye and hide the looong overhang.
Audi now uses the revived version of the long forgotten concept of the KA8/9 Legend/Accord Inspire/Vigor/Inspire/1st TL with a longitudinal engine/forward positioned halfshafts, because with this architecture, you can position the wheels more freely.
I recommended that Acura should turn the engine/tranny180 degrees, where the tranny is in front of the engine. The wheels are in the correct position (like anno in the FWD Citroën Traction Avant or Cord), the vehicle has a front-mid engined architecture, thus a far better weight balance (but yes, worse interior room). Not an easy one, I admit.
But honestly, I expect a solution from a company, which had complex-minded tech wizards with a true flagship, but in this case the flagship actually was a man, named Soichiro and the company was called HONDA.
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Powered by Honda
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Bence wrote:
Yup, but as I mentioned earlier in a similar post, the hardware packaging dictates the basic design. With a transverse V6, you can't move the wheels forward because the tranny/halfshafts define where the wheels are. Even the Bentley Continental/Flying Spur has a seriously compromised appearance because of this FWD architecture, but the rounded corners can fool the eye and hide the looong overhang.
Audi now uses the revived version of the long forgotten concept of the KA8/9 Legend/Accord Inspire/Vigor/Inspire/1st TL with a longitudinal engine/forward positioned halfshafts, because with this architecture, you can position the wheels more freely.
I recommended that Acura should turn the engine/tranny180 degrees, where the tranny is in front of the engine. The wheels are in the correct position (like anno in the FWD Citroën Traction Avant or Cord), the vehicle has a front-mid engined architecture, thus a far better weight balance (but yes, worse interior room). Not an easy one, I admit.
But honestly, I expect a solution from a company, which had complex-minded tech wizards with a true flagship, but in this case the flagship actually was a man, named Soichiro and the company was called HONDA.
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True then why does every Ferrari have long overhangs. F430 and the Enzo and many more!
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Great_Tubimi
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Powered by Honda wrote:
Bence wrote:
Yup, but as I mentioned earlier in a similar post, the hardware packaging dictates the basic design. With a transverse V6, you can't move the wheels forward because the tranny/halfshafts define where the wheels are. Even the Bentley Continental/Flying Spur has a seriously compromised appearance because of this FWD architecture, but the rounded corners can fool the eye and hide the looong overhang.
Audi now uses the revived version of the long forgotten concept of the KA8/9 Legend/Accord Inspire/Vigor/Inspire/1st TL with a longitudinal engine/forward positioned halfshafts, because with this architecture, you can position the wheels more freely.
I recommended that Acura should turn the engine/tranny180 degrees, where the tranny is in front of the engine. The wheels are in the correct position (like anno in the FWD Citroën Traction Avant or Cord), the vehicle has a front-mid engined architecture, thus a far better weight balance (but yes, worse interior room). Not an easy one, I admit.
But honestly, I expect a solution from a company, which had complex-minded tech wizards with a true flagship, but in this case the flagship actually was a man, named Soichiro and the company was called HONDA.
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True then why does every Ferrari have long overhangs. F430 and the Enzo and many more!
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Clearly the exception and not the rule. Cars like that are supposed to be able to stick to a road at high speeds, even if the road was upside down.
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