matt1987
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nice car but not for my wife and i. 35k is too steep when a fully loaded tsx tech was sitting right next to it for 33k. no memory seating, and no power pass seat, no rear seat pass through(on hybrid only) tiny trunk and tight interior. powertrain was ok but lacked off the line power( lexus ct200h was worse though) engine had a weird thump as you left from a stop. its to bad they are priced this way. shoulda been 25-29k not up to 35k. oh well the look continues to replace our 07 tl type-s we've had since new.
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atomiclightbulb
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This is what I've been saying for months. The ILX hybrid is useless for the Acura lineup: ridiculously underpowered, poor cargo space, lackluster fuel economy for a hybrid.
I'd like to know which Acura executive(s) approved production of this kind of mediocrity.
Acura, dump the hybrid ILX. The resources would have been better spent on a more performance-oriented version of the 2.4L model.
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98EX4cyl
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atomiclightbulb wrote:
This is what I've been saying for months. The ILX hybrid is useless for the Acura lineup: ridiculously underpowered, poor cargo space, lackluster fuel economy for a hybrid.
I'd like to know which Acura executive(s) approved production of this kind of mediocrity.
Acura, dump the hybrid ILX. The resources would have been better spent on a more performance-oriented version of the 2.4L model.
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Considering the ZDX is still on the lots with its horrendous sales record, I would expect to see the ILX Hybrid around for several years.
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alan3885
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So just curious how did the the car drive because Acura has "TWEAKED' the ECU from the Civic Hybris so I am curious about your review or feedback?
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matt1987
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well i never drove the civic hybrid so i cant compare. if you tell me what aspects you are referring to i will do my best to describe them. what i can say, it was under powered off the line. highway passing power was ok. i'm coming from a 286 hp tl type-s so i wasnt excited to much from a 110 hp ilx. also we drove a fully loaded 200hp camry hybrid and for 34k it stomps all over the ilx. way more power, seamless hybrid drivetrain, way more interior space....still no memory seating and the interior other than the dash felt cheap to me. ilx was way better in that regard.
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CivicB18
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I think the ILX concept (the thought not the actual car) was great in the sense of Acura needing a performance/luxury entry level compact. However, the end result isn't impressive at all as the drivetrains are the same or simply slightly tweaked versions of the Civic.
It seems as if Acura rushed this car to the market to increase sales. I think Acura should have waited and implemented the upcoming ED drivtrains as that alone would make this car far more interesting and desirable. The overpricing isn't helping matters either. The ILX should start around $26k and top out no more than $31k! I still wouldn't pay $31k for any ILX trim unless it had some Acura exclusive drivetrain options.
Base ILX: 160hp R20 w/6AT or 6MT.
ILX Type S: 240hp K20t w/7DCT or 6MT.
ILX Hybrid: Highly revised IMA system w/new generation CVT.
This also further illustrates why Acura needs to become a global brand as more sales volume could easily justify the costs of more exclusive engine and transmission offerings of the lower end Honda based models like the ILX, TSX and possible the RDX as the 2.0t could be used in all three and of course a diesel for other markets like Europe.
~Patrick
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CarmB
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If the Civic hybrid, well equipped, checks in at around $28,000, how reasonable is it to have expected an ILX hybrid at $29,000?
I think the hybrid ILX, as it stands, should not have come to market but the issue isn't the price but rather the rather weak performance in what is supposed to be a premium product.
I'm truly puzzled over the strange notion that Honda should be applying roughly $1,000 worth of premium on the ILX over a loaded up Civic. That's simply nonsense. The extra warranty alone is a $1,000 value so it appears that some are thinking that Honda should just make a higher grade of car free of charge, just to be nice.
Sure Honda would sell a lot more ILXs if they applied Civic pricing but that's rather a poor business plan. If the grade of interior fit and finish and refinement mechanically found in the ILX could be delivered with Civic pricing yet provided Honda with a decent profit, the latest Civic would have been the ILX in the first place.
If you don't want to pay a premium for an upgraded product, then don't. But let's not whine about the ILX beng more expensive than the Civic. That it would be should have been assumed right from the start.
While the ILX is based on the Civic, the ILX is not a Civic. I think it is valid for Honda to argue that it is a different product. It's up to consumers to decide if they value the upgrades over opting for a cheaper product like the Civic yet that there would be a price difference of some significance is inevitable.
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FiSH-Chan
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CarmB wrote:
While the ILX is based on the Civic, the ILX is not a Civic. I think it is valid for Honda to argue that it is a different product. It's up to consumers to decide if they value the upgrades over opting for a cheaper product like the Civic yet that there would be a price difference of some significance is inevitable.
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The ILX with a CRZ 1engine+IMA in it would differenciate it from both the Civic and the CRZ.. too bad they did not do it
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danielgr
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atomiclightbulb wrote:
This is what I've been saying for months. The ILX hybrid is useless for the Acura lineup: ridiculously underpowered, poor cargo space, lackluster fuel economy for a hybrid.
I'd like to know which Acura executive(s) approved production of this kind of mediocrity.
Acura, dump the hybrid ILX. The resources would have been better spent on a more performance-oriented version of the 2.4L model.
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Personally I don't know if the ILX will reach or not its sales target, nor I know what share of the cake the hybrid will represent, but the only market fact we know so far is that on its first days the hybrid made 20% of the numbers. So really, there may be a time when that figure sinks to less than 5% and you have a point to prove, but IMHO it'd be more reasonable if you waited for it...
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atomiclightbulb
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danielgr,
We knew detailed specs on the ILX months ago. Honda released the detailed specifications on the entire range on Acura ILX automobiles on March 26, 2012. That was 2 and 1/2 months ago. Link: http://www.hondanews.com/channels/acura-automobiles-ilx/releases/2013-acura-ilx-specifications
Vehicles similar to the ILX, sedan-to-hybrid conversions, have not done well in the U.S. market, where the bulk of ILX vehicles will be sold. Hybrids that are conversions of existing sedans just don't sell very well in the U.S. The Civic hybrid sells in the hundreds per month, which is barely a footnote in the overall Civic lineup, and not even a shadow of what the Prius sales figures. The Lexus HS250h (based on the Toyota Avensis) did so poorly that Toyota eliminated the model from its lineup. Most of the other sedan-to-hybrid conversions, like the Fusion, sell around 10k/year, but they have more powerful and more advanced powertrains than the ILX.
The ILX hybrid simply does not offer enough for the money.
- It is severely underpowered. This is indisputable. Almost without exception, members of the automotive press have criticized the ILX for having only adequate power in local driving, and terrible passing performance at highway speeds.
- There are compromises in cargo capacity and flexibility. 9.8-10 cubic feet of trunk space is terrible. The rear bench cannot fold. If, for example, I buy a bookshelf kit from an IKEA store that is too long to fit in the trunk, I cannot fold down the rear seat to accommodate it. Forget about sports equipment like hockey or lacrosse sticks.
have sat inside the ILX, and I never said that the interior was bad. I said that the cargo capacity and flexibility of the hybrid ILX is too compromised.
I have shown exactly why I think the ILX Hybrid is a waste of resources. Similar vehicles in the U.S. market have done very poorly. I have been specific about why I think the car has attributes that are undesirable: inadequate power and poor cargo utility. The ILX does nothing to improve the Acura brand, and it took away resources that could have been used for a better 2.4L model or options for the 2.4L model.
danielgr, I've made my case. Now you make yours. What reasons do you think this ILX hybrid is suitable for the U.S. market? What are the merits of this vehicle? What makes it competitive in a tough market?
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Hondarulez
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atomiclightbulb wrote:
danielgr,
We knew detailed specs on the ILX months ago. Honda released the detailed specifications on the entire range on Acura ILX automobiles on March 26, 2012. That was 2 and 1/2 months ago. Link: http://www.hondanews.com/channels/acura-automobiles-ilx/releases/2013-acura-ilx-specifications
Vehicles similar to the ILX, sedan-to-hybrid conversions, have not done well in the U.S. market, where the bulk of ILX vehicles will be sold. Hybrids that are conversions of existing sedans just don't sell very well in the U.S. The Civic hybrid sells in the hundreds per month, which is barely a footnote in the overall Civic lineup, and not even a shadow of what the Prius sales figures. The Lexus HS250h (based on the Toyota Avensis) did so poorly that Toyota eliminated the model from its lineup. Most of the other sedan-to-hybrid conversions, like the Fusion, sell around 10k/year, but they have more powerful and more advanced powertrains than the ILX.
The ILX hybrid simply does not offer enough for the money.
- It is severely underpowered. This is indisputable. Almost without exception, members of the automotive press have criticized the ILX for having only adequate power in local driving, and terrible passing performance at highway speeds.
- There are compromises in cargo capacity and flexibility. 9.8-10 cubic feet of trunk space is terrible. The rear bench cannot fold. If, for example, I buy a bookshelf kit from an IKEA store that is too long to fit in the trunk, I cannot fold down the rear seat to accommodate it. Forget about sports equipment like hockey or lacrosse sticks.
have sat inside the ILX, and I never said that the interior was bad. I said that the cargo capacity and flexibility of the hybrid ILX is too compromised.
I have shown exactly why I think the ILX Hybrid is a waste of resources. Similar vehicles in the U.S. market have done very poorly. I have been specific about why I think the car has attributes that are undesirable: inadequate power and poor cargo utility. The ILX does nothing to improve the Acura brand, and it took away resources that could have been used for a better 2.4L model or options for the 2.4L model.
danielgr, I've made my case. Now you make yours. What reasons do you think this ILX hybrid is suitable for the U.S. market? What are the merits of this vehicle? What makes it competitive in a tough market?
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IMO, most hybrids, conversions or standalone products, have not done well when you compare against Toyota hybrid models. With that said, if we only use Toyota as an example, I'd say the Camry hybrid has been doing really well, and that's a sedan to hybrid conversion.
On another note, how well equipped is the $28.9k base ILX hybrid? We keep talking about the $34k model, but how about the cheaper one? It's $2k more than a fully loaded Civic hybrid.
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Grace141
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Has Honda stated how many ILX Hybrids they wish to sell? If you figure the ILX total should be about 10% of the number of Civics sold and then let's say the ILX Hybrid will be maybe 15% of the ILX total your looking at 450 ILX Hybrids sold per month, if those percentages are correct. What is that, one ILX Hybrid sold by each dealer every two to three months? That would make it just 4x to 6x as common as the ITR. It could be a full year before I see one on the road.
How about the power offered? I've owned a car in the past which produced 54hp so I don't see anything as severely underpowered these days. Whether an average hybrid buyer will see the ILX Hybrid as adequate is entirely up to that person's judgement and Honda should know within a few months what they have on their hands.
And to the OP, the point of this thread is to simply confirm what you would have known walking into the dealership. The ILX Hybrid has less than half of the power and a lot less space than a TL. A 2012 TL starts at $35,705 which is $7k more than a comparable Accord. The ILX Hybrid should be expected to cost more than a comparable Civic Hybrid.
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owequitit
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danielgr wrote:
atomiclightbulb wrote:
This is what I've been saying for months. The ILX hybrid is useless for the Acura lineup: ridiculously underpowered, poor cargo space, lackluster fuel economy for a hybrid.
I'd like to know which Acura executive(s) approved production of this kind of mediocrity.
Acura, dump the hybrid ILX. The resources would have been better spent on a more performance-oriented version of the 2.4L model.
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Personally I don't know if the ILX will reach or not its sales target, nor I know what share of the cake the hybrid will represent, but the only market fact we know so far is that on its first days the hybrid made 20% of the numbers. So really, there may be a time when that figure sinks to less than 5% and you have a point to prove, but IMHO it'd be more reasonable if you waited for it...
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Daniel, don't be silly. He hasn't discredited himself in anyway. The real problem is that you can't fall back on your typical "wait till you drive it because it will be great" B.S. defense.
It doesn't take a lot of brain power, rocket science, or car knowledge to know that a 3,000lb car with a 1.5l and 110HP is going to suck. It certainly doesn't take a financial genius to figure out that a $33K TSX is a better deal than a $35K half-assed hybrid. I would be willing to bet as well that with the real world MPG performance of said TSX that the hybrid has virtually no chance of paying for itself with fuel savings in any reasonable time frame. Add having to deal with absolutely unacceptable performance, and it is a crappy product for all but the most greenwashed fans.
Face it, the ILX hybrid is yet another lame duck product from Honda (funny how they are releasing those in about a 3:1 ratio compared to their smash hits...). I am sure all is fine in la la land though, because every healthy company releases 3X as many shitty products as they do good ones...
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matt1987
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well at least it drove better and was faster than a lexus ct200h, and those cost 35k for a loaded up one, and it still has fake leather int. i will bet in 1 years time the ilx will drop in price. even my local dealer wondered who will buy the ilx when the tsx is better priced and more car for less money(tsx tech 4cyl vs ilx hybrid). acura will probally sell a ton of the base ilx though as they are a pretty good deal for value seekers.
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330R
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Grace141 wrote:
Has Honda stated how many ILX Hybrids they wish to sell?
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666 per month. Appropriate?
40,000 per year
75% 2.0
20% hybrid
5% 2.4
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HondaFan1990
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owequitit wrote:
danielgr wrote:
atomiclightbulb wrote:
This is what I've been saying for months. The ILX hybrid is useless for the Acura lineup: ridiculously underpowered, poor cargo space, lackluster fuel economy for a hybrid.
I'd like to know which Acura executive(s) approved production of this kind of mediocrity.
Acura, dump the hybrid ILX. The resources would have been better spent on a more performance-oriented version of the 2.4L model.
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Personally I don't know if the ILX will reach or not its sales target, nor I know what share of the cake the hybrid will represent, but the only market fact we know so far is that on its first days the hybrid made 20% of the numbers. So really, there may be a time when that figure sinks to less than 5% and you have a point to prove, but IMHO it'd be more reasonable if you waited for it...
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Daniel, don't be silly. He hasn't discredited himself in anyway. The real problem is that you can't fall back on your typical "wait till you drive it because it will be great" B.S. defense.
It doesn't take a lot of brain power, rocket science, or car knowledge to know that a 3,000lb car with a 1.5l and 110HP is going to suck. It certainly doesn't take a financial genius to figure out that a $33K TSX is a better deal than a $35K half-assed hybrid. I would be willing to bet as well that with the real world MPG performance of said TSX that the hybrid has virtually no chance of paying for itself with fuel savings in any reasonable time frame. Add having to deal with absolutely unacceptable performance, and it is a crappy product for all but the most greenwashed fans.
Face it, the ILX hybrid is yet another lame duck product from Honda (funny how they are releasing those in about a 3:1 ratio compared to their smash hits...). I am sure all is fine in la la land though, because every healthy company releases 3X as many shitty products as they do good ones...
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In daniel's defense, his "wait till you drive it because it will be great B.S. defense." isn't a bad way to go. It is all too common on car forums, this place for sure included, for people to voice their opinion about a car (usually when they feel it "sucks") and what they base it "sucking" on doesn't include any real seat time with the car, just reading specs and materials online from what others have said and then jumping on the bandwagon of hate. This may not be the case for all, but some for sure. Cue in Honda "haters" and Hyundai/Kia's new "lovers", for example. Now it's popular to hate Honda and all they do and when they release anything, immediately call it a "Flop", say it's worse than previous generations and then talk of Honda's of yesteryear, proclaiming when Honda was "the shit". Look at any post talking about Honda's on the internet. More negative than positive, with most people not even spending time in the products and making their own conclusion. CR bashed the Civic along with others and it's still the best selling compact, but it's still bashed. Hyundai/Kia can do no wrong with their styling and wonderful EPA claims, along with price so everyone loves them and rushes to buy one only to find that everything that glitters ain't gold, EPA numbers aren't being met and styling only gets you so far when other things are lacking.....
That being said, there are LOTS of companies in la la land right now, not just Honda. Every major brand is there in some way.
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GoFaster
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For those of us that said the Euro Civic including the diesel powered version would have done better than the failed IMA Hybrid in a sedan. Take a look at how diesel is doing for cars that offer diesel and gasoline choices in the USA.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5686544-SMOKING-DIESEL-Car-and-Driver-June-issue-2012
Vehicles in the ILX category
A3 is 55% diesel
Golf 55% diesel
Jetta 20%
Jetta Sports Wagon 78%
Seems like those smart enough to value the utility of a hatch also are smart enough to choose diesel. Why Acura would clone the failed HS250h, instead of just import the already designed Euro hatchbacks is beyond me. Customers are staying away from IMA in droves, it isn't good enough. So why introduce a brand new model with it?
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superchg2
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Let's face it.
Sooner or later, we are all faced with a situation where we need a little extra "Go", and with a power-to-weight ratio approaching the moped range, butt puckering freeway merge's are all but guaranteed with this ILX hybrid.
:)
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xBeastx
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330R wrote:
Grace141 wrote:
Has Honda stated how many ILX Hybrids they wish to sell?
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666 per month. Appropriate?
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Yes because it was another Honda no no.
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Powered by Honda
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ILX Hybrid is the biggest fail. Only ones on the road will be salesmen using the dealer ones and ones with 5-10k discount! haha
Well not the biggest fail.
CR-Z
ZDX
Acura RL
those 3 are the biggest fail....but I think the ILX has a chance to top them in fail. Honda has a long list of fail.
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atomiclightbulb
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HondaFan1990 wrote:
It is all too common on car forums, this place for sure included, for people to voice their opinion about a car (usually when they feel it "sucks") and what they base it "sucking" on doesn't include any real seat time with the car, just reading specs and materials online from what others have said and then jumping on the bandwagon of hate. |
It doesn't take a genius to know that a car that has 27 lbs/hp isn't going to have good highway passing power. There's just no way around that. Nobody has offered any kind of reasonable rebuttal to this argument. I don't think anyone has even tried.
I don't need to drive the ILX to know that the lack of a fold-down rear bench would be inconvenient to me. I don't always have access to the CR-V if I need to haul something long. If I only have the Accord, at least I can fold down the seat and slide the item in. That the ILX does not offer this convenience is a fact. Again, NO ONE has offered any rebuttal to this argument. The silence is deafening.
I like the ILX design in general. If Acura wants to make a hybrid version, fine, but they shouldn't half-ass it. The ILX deserves better.
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superchg2
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Powered by Honda wrote:
ILX Hybrid is the biggest fail. Only ones on the road will be salesmen using the dealer ones and ones with 5-10k discount! haha
Well not the biggest fail.
CR-Z
ZDX
Acura RL
those 3 are the biggest fail....but I think the ILX has a chance to top them in fail. Honda has a long list of fail.
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Maybe the Acura dealers' should retrofit the ILX Hybrid engine with a mandatory NOS set up for a little extra git' up and go!!
:)
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JP
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superchg2 wrote:
Powered by Honda wrote:
ILX Hybrid is the biggest fail. Only ones on the road will be salesmen using the dealer ones and ones with 5-10k discount! haha
Well not the biggest fail.
CR-Z
ZDX
Acura RL
those 3 are the biggest fail....but I think the ILX has a chance to top them in fail. Honda has a long list of fail.
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Maybe the Acura dealers' should retrofit the ILX Hybrid engine with a mandatory NOS set up for a little extra git' up and go!!
:)
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a CNG shot of 50hp :) for passing only :p
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NSXforever
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Its really astounding to be completely late to the hybrid field and then produce the hybrid with by far the least amount of power and average/sub-par economy. To sell it for 35k is mind-boggling.
There is no way this car is selling the 40k a year they want to sell. It is a disaster.
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matt1987
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well it is a first year model. the market will dictate where it goes and how it gets priced in the future. i bet next year the hybrid will be no more than 31k fully loaded. we made the mistake of buying a new rdx tech in 07 to replace our 04 tl. i liked the rdx, but because of being its first year it lacked alot of small things we liked in our tl. it didnt have a self dimming rear view mirror or a power pass seat, small things we overlooked but missed. the ilx will adjust or get canned, its simple economics.
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DCR
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Once pricing is established, it will hold the line. Acura will not drop the MSRP of the hybrid due to slow sales.
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superchg2
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DCR wrote:
Once pricing is established, it will hold the line. Acura will not drop the MSRP of the hybrid due to slow sales.
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I agree, and this newest Acura boo-boo will languish on the lots with the ZDX's and RL's until the cows come home!
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