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mobis21
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atomiclightbulb wrote:
owequitit wrote:
It's nice of you to try an put words in my mouth, but too bad you still fail again.
1) The ONLY cars Honda still puts manuals in are the ones that supposed to be geared toward enthusiasts. You pretend that there is a plethora of Honda models with MT's these days.
You have: |
That is grossly inaccurate.
I know because I keep a very close eye on Honda's mainstream offerings that have the option for a manual. I am one of those customers who doesn't need a sporty car, but wants to row my own gears.
The Honda Accord Sedan LX and EX are both available with 5MT: http://automobiles.honda.com/accord-sedan/specifications.aspx
The Honda Accord Coupe LX-S and EX (4-cylinder) are both available with 5MT: http://automobiles.honda.com/accord-coupe/specifications.aspx
The Honda Civic Sedan DX and LX are both available with 5MT: http://automobiles.honda.com/civic-sedan/specifications.aspx
The Honda Civic Coupe DX, LX, and EX (non-Navi) are available with 5MT: http://automobiles.honda.com/civic-coupe/
As reported here on ToV, the 9G Honda Accord due this fall will be widely available with 6MT: http://vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=1062301
For Sedans, LX, Sport, and EX will get a 6MT for their 4-cylinder models. 4-cylinder coupe LX-S and EX also get a 6MT.
I agree that Honda and Acura should offer more enthusiast-oriented options, but to say that they only offer MT on enthusiast models is flat out false.
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atomiclightbulb, thanks for correcting those errors. I thought you could get manual transmissions in Civics other than the Si, and other than a V6 Accord Coupe.
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superchg2
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siegen wrote:
owequitit wrote:
It's nice of you to try an put words in my mouth, but too bad you still fail again.
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Perhaps you're confusing who you're talking to or are responding to the incorrect person; I wasn't trying to put words into your mouth and that was my first post in response to you in quite some time on any topic.
I'm sorry if you became overly defensive from my reply. I can't see why you would resort to so much hostility. If you would, please read my reply again but under the context that I am not trying to argue with you, but am instead providing a guess in response to your question, and also pointing out that enthusiasts of your caliber are not the only ones that purchase manuals (not assuming or asserting much by this).
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Siegen, please don't take this personally. At one time or another, many of us regular's on TOV have been verbally assaulted by owe.
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Colin
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atomiclightbulb wrote:
"Other people" do by them. I'm one of those "other people", and I know a few "other people" who still buy the manual even if they are not performance enthusiasts.
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owequitit
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siegen wrote:
owequitit wrote:
It's nice of you to try an put words in my mouth, but too bad you still fail again.
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Perhaps you're confusing who you're talking to or are responding to the incorrect person; I wasn't trying to put words into your mouth and that was my first post in response to you in quite some time on any topic.
I'm sorry if you became overly defensive from my reply. I can't see why you would resort to so much hostility. If you would, please read my reply again but under the context that I am not trying to argue with you, but am instead providing a guess in response to your question, and also pointing out that enthusiasts of your caliber are not the only ones that purchase manuals (not assuming or asserting much by this).
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"My guess:
The ILX was going to get a manual transmission one way or another. The Civic sedan, Accord sedan and TSX offer it. The first logical step was to offer a manual with the R20. But perhaps there was no manual transmission available for that engine, or an R20/MT wasn't as cost-effective as a K24/6MT.
Whatever the reason, there do exist people that prefer or demand a manual transmission (and a larger engine), but would not be viewed by you as an enthusiast. If there wasn't, why does Honda/Acura offer a manual transmission on so many of its cars?
It may be true that an LSD will improve the driving experience even for these non-enthusiast people, but perhaps the cost, even a couple hundred bucks, wasn't worth it to the bean counters?
Forget about the tech package for a moment and ask yourself this: If the ILX did have an LSD, would you be satisfied with it? The answer has to be no. It's heavier than the Si and is not targeted towards enthusiasts nearly as much as the Si is. Having an LSD would just confuse things further. This isn't like when Acura offered the RSX-S without an LSD; the RSX-S being obviously targeted towards the enthusiast/racer/tuner crowd. The ILX is clearly geared towards the same kind of customer as the TSX.
As to why Acura doesn't also offer a K24/5AT, my guess is that they assumed all automatic transmission customers can be funneled to the R20/5AT, and the extra cost of a K24/5AT wouldn't result in enough increased sales (that didn't just come from the TSX) to be worth it.
Maybe the K24/5AT (or 6AT) will be coming, but they are waiting for the TSX to go away. Who knows."
That was your original post. I bolded the parts were you WERE insinuating my viewpoint, but were completely incorrect. It is nice of you to assume what I would consider an "enthusiast," even though you are wrong. It is also nice of you to tell me what I would or would not accept in the ILX compared to an Si.
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owequitit
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atomiclightbulb wrote:
owequitit wrote:
Not really grossly inaccurate. Try finding one of those manual options on a lot...
You guys can spin it any way you want. |
Seriously? That's moving the goalposts. And it doesn't change the result.
It took me less than a minute on autotrader to find 25 new Honda Accords with manual transmission within 25 miles of my location. LX and EX sedans, LX-S and EX coupes, and EX V6 coupes are all in-stock.
There are roughly 50 new Honda Civics with manual transmission within the same radius. About half are Si, but there is a good mix of LX sedan, LX coupe, and EX coupe to choose from.
I could go to any of my area dealers first thing tomorrow morning, write a check, and drive off the lot with a brand new manual Accord or Civic.
| The only people looking for manuals in 99% of cases are "enthusiasts." Other people just don't buy them, which is why AHM's availability of them runs between 1-3%. It is also unlikely that these guys are going to order and wait for a month or more to get the MT version that doesn't exist. |
"Other people" do by them. I'm one of those "other people", and I know a few "other people" who still buy the manual even if they are not performance enthusiasts.
| Also, if the "not for an enthusiast" card was correct, then there is still no logical reason to hold out on options like the tech package, because most "non-enthusiasts" buying such a car would want the Navigation and ELS. So, you MIGHT be able to make a case for the LSD, but you sure as hell can't make one for the lack of options, and I would argue that by attempting to make one for the lack of LSD, you are limiting Honda's potential market by up to 2/3, because let's face it that while there are very few people (I never said they were non-existent) who would want a manual just for a manual, the reality is that only the enthusiasts are going to buy in bulk. |
Wait, first you say "Other people just don't buy them (manual transmission Honda)" and then you say "I never said they were non-existent"... that's contradictory. Blanket statement, and then exceptions? Which is it?
I agree with you that the lack of higher end options on the 2.4L ILX is a problem and makes no sense. I've stated repeatedly in other threads that this made no sense. The highest performing model should have the best equipment available. Notyper covered this in detail already using the Infiniti G37 6MT as an example and I agree with his assessment.
Perhaps I should have made my point more clear: I understand the perspective of people who want higher performance vehicles with all the good options. I only ask that ToV members acknowledge that a segment of the community who are not performance enthusiasts do value manual transmissions.
The performance oriented people here at ToV are upset that Honda has ignored their complaints as if they "do not exist". So when you are dismissive of people like me, just because we are not in large numbers, can you reasonably expect us not to be equally annoyed?
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It isn't moving goal posts. Honda builds them, but the numbers are so few and far between it is nearly impossible to find them, so in essence they may as well not exist.
Unless the person is willing to wait infinitely, do a nationwide location and ship the car, or special order it, you aren't going to find one. I know, because I have tried. People in this category aren't going to specifically put in that much effort to seek out an MT version of a car unless they are "enthusiasts."
Its funny how the term "enthusiast" is fluid when you need it to be and rigid when you need it to be. The even funnier part is that you guys accuse me of being rigid in my definition, when in fact, I am not the rigid one. An enthusiast is anyone who is passionate about cars or some aspect of cars. Someone who specifically seeks out an MT would fall into the category of enthusiast versus the "average" consumer. Whether they do it for MPG, ease of use, enjoyability, or some other metric, they are still relative enthusiasts compared to the person who wants the car to drive itself.
Not all "enthusiasts" are looking for maximum performance (this is YOUR rigid definition, not mine) from a car, because if they were, they wouldn't be looking at a FWD car in the first place. However, to pretend that there is no value in intrinsic fun to drive chassis setups is also silly and rigid. The person looking for an MT is doing it for a specific reason just as the person looking for an LSD is. You are attempting to remove the label of "enthusiast" in one case so it fits your definition of how you are right and I am wrong.
As for availabililty, it is important because the average consumer looking for an MT will probably also be looking at cars like the Impreza and Mazda 3, both of which are more readily available with MT's.
As for Honda's future inclusion of MT's, that only makes life better as far as I am concerned, because it shows a re-embracing of "enthusiasts" by Honda. However, it does not have any bearing on what has happened over the last decade other than to show that maybe they realized their mistake and are correcting (again, good for "enthusiasts", NOT "regular" drivers).
I am happy for your ability to find manual transmission cars. Now, let's validate my point. How many TOTAL Hondas are available in your area so that we can validate the portion of MT vs AT cars, which was a major tenet of my original point?
I know in my closest metro area (Phoenix), I was recently able to find exactly 1 Si, and ZERO regular Hondas or Acuras with an MT. Not a single one. Knowing that there are at least 500 Hondas in my area, that shows a pretty poor proportion. If you have a much larger quantity in your area, then it would explain the greater MT numbers, but may not change the proportion. As usual, you guys still fail to consider my position in its entirety. My statement wasn't contradictory. I said that they are rare, most people don't want to buy them, and most who do are clearly enthusiasts. The others who do, I would not consider regular. Again, in order for your intepretation to hold water, you have to make a rigid interpretation of what constitutes an "enthusiast", which is an assumption I did not make.
As for your assertions of dismissivness:
1) I will reiterate again, in case you didn't get it the first 3 times, that is based on YOUR definition of enthusiast, not mine. I never excluded you from the definition of anything. I simply said that A) most people who want manuals also want performance (still true), and those who don't usually want the features in a car that is SUPPOSED to be luxurious.
Besides, even if I had dismissed MT buyers as "non-enthusiasts" (which I didn't), you guys don't seem to have any problems dismissing the performance guys at the same time you are demanding consideration.
This all really diversionary from the real point and root of the argument though, which is that Honda shot itself in the foot by not either offering the features, or the chassis performance or both. Why build a product that only appeals to 1 of 3 small groups when they could have easily encompassed ALL 3 small groups. The rest is really just an attempt to derail the point.
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owequitit
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Colin wrote:
atomiclightbulb wrote:
"Other people" do by them. I'm one of those "other people", and I know a few "other people" who still buy the manual even if they are not performance enthusiasts.
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There are a lot more reasons to want an LSD other than just "ultimate" performance. I mean let's be realistic. The ILX is a low 15 second car. It is hardly a car designed for "ultimate performance." This is the same tired excuse that has already been blown up at least once in this thread. The LSD does a lot more than just increase handling prowess, all of which make the car much more desirable to a wide variety of consumers, not just enthusiasts seeking ultimate performance. In addition to the previously listed all weather benefits, it serves to make the car feel more balanced and less FWD based, which serve to make the car FEEL better in nearly all aspects of driving, not just all out performance (although it helps that too).
As far as tech package, maybe it isn't important to you, but as everyone is fond of pointing out to everyone else, those people comprise but a small group. Again, if you look at commom complaints about the car (excluding the ones that are not legitimate like "oh it isn't RWD, or boosted AWD" etc) the two most common complaints are either 1) No tech package available or 2) No LSD available, or some combination of the two.
Had Acura put the LSD, the car would have simultaneously appealed to those who want MPG or "regular" driving, such as the group you and atomiclightbulb put yourselves in, but it would have also appealed to the group wanting improved chassis dynamics. Had they put the tech package, it would still have appealed to your group (because it provided the requisite level of features you require/desire) and it would have also appealed to those wanting tech package with the big engine and 6MT (probably the largest group of all). Had they done both, it would have appealed to all three and sold better with better reception. Either way, Honda sold themselves short of the car's potential, and that is the real core of the debate.
If nothing else, they could have made a "sport" package with LSD, tighter suspenders, more aggressive tires and brakes etc. However, I think they would have been better served by just putting the LSD in the top car and making it available with tech package. It wouldn't hurt those that want the other things (there really is no downside to an LSD other than very incremental cost increase of less than 1% MSRP), and then, if you want tech, you can have it.
Honestly, I probably would have been happy with tech and no LSD being an option. But again, you guys seem to be repeatedly ignoring that part of the statement and trying to focus on trivial details instead.
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Potenza
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I can't believe you're still complaining about this. I warned you four months ago not to get your hopes up, when some of you were so certain this would be the next Integra GSR.
http://www.vtec.net/forums/one-message?message_id=1039452&news_item_id=1038191
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owequitit
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I will continue to complain about it until Honda removes their head from their ass...
The are responding to overall criticism of the Civic's interior, and they are INCREASING the availability of MT's in the Accord, as well as the available options that make the car more dynamically enjoyable. Clearly, it would appear that the bitching is starting to work.
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superchg2
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Potenza wrote:
I can't believe you're still complaining about this. I warned you four months ago not to get your hopes up, when some of you were so certain this would be the next Integra GSR.
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...now, go to your room, and leave your I-Phone on the table!
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Mr. Taggart
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Just throwing this out there and it may be way off base but....
Maybe Honda is getting prepared for the nanny state where you cannot talk on the phone or use the Nav system while the car is moving. In an automatic it is pretty easy to limit things. Gear in park? Use cell phone, text, and Nav. Gear not in part? No use of cell phone, text, and Nav. In an manual there is no 'park' gear so maybe limiting these things gets more complicated so that is why no NAV with the manual.
Or it could be that once again Honda has misread the 'key demographic' group.
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Potenza
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owequitit wrote:
I will continue to complain about it until Honda removes their head from their ass...
The are responding to overall criticism of the Civic's interior, and they are INCREASING the availability of MT's in the Accord, as well as the available options that make the car more dynamically enjoyable. Clearly, it would appear that the bitching is starting to work.
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But seriously, an LSD in the ILX? Honda has spoiled you with the Si, which - for only the 2nd time - has just such a gift. Otherwise it's not Honda-like at all to offer one. The TSX 2.4 6MT SE doesn't have one. The RSX Type-S didn't have one. The V6 6MT Accord Coupe doesn't have one. So why did you possibly think the ILX entry-level "it's no boy racer" sedan would have one? Because marketing said it's the "enthusiast oriented" (read: biggest engine) version? If they didn't even care to adjust the spring rates, shock damping, or sway bars from the base models... you're asking a bit much.
Not offering an automatic version was dumb. Not offering an LSD? Not so much. I'm not saying it's a worthless feature or that there aren't people in the world that would appreciate it. I'm just saying it's never going to happen, and outside of a handful of people talking on TOV, no one's ever going to notice or care.
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cforez
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Mr. Taggart wrote:
Just throwing this out there and it may be way off base but....
Maybe Honda is getting prepared for the nanny state where you cannot talk on the phone or use the Nav system while the car is moving. In an automatic it is pretty easy to limit things. Gear in park? Use cell phone, text, and Nav. Gear not in part? No use of cell phone, text, and Nav. In an manual there is no 'park' gear so maybe limiting these things gets more complicated so that is why no NAV with the manual.
Or it could be that once again Honda has misread the 'key demographic' group.
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I think Colin nailed it earlier in the thread.
Colin wrote:
A77, it does seem like the 'worst of both worlds' but I'll take a logical counterpoint to the lack of Tech + 6MT. With the 6MT take rate hovering around 5%, that is only ~2000 units a year. This is only 166 units per month and with ~260 Acura dealers, that's less than 1 per dealer per month BEFORE you add any colors.
Adding the Tech as a 2nd manual option is not feasible at this volume. So the only choice would have been to make the manual only Tech or only Premium. Whichever you choose, somebody will have something to complain about (please recall the debates on PND vs. Smart Phone vs. Navi).
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DCR
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Potenza wrote:
I'm just saying it's never going to happen, and outside of a handful of people talking on TOV, no one's ever going to notice or care.
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http://bit.ly/N6CnlH
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atomiclightbulb
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owequitit wrote:
It isn't moving goal posts. Honda builds them, but the numbers are so few and far between it is nearly impossible to find them, so in essence they may as well not exist.
...
I am happy for your ability to find manual transmission cars. Now, let's validate my point. How many TOTAL Hondas are available in your area so that we can validate the portion of MT vs AT cars, which was a major tenet of my original point?
I know in my closest metro area (Phoenix), I was recently able to find exactly 1 Si, and ZERO regular Hondas or Acuras with an MT. Not a single one. Knowing that there are at least 500 Hondas in my area, that shows a pretty poor proportion. If you have a much larger quantity in your area, then it would explain the greater MT numbers, but may not change the proportion. |
See, your point only applies to your situation. Just because you can't find a manual Honda in your area does not mean the same is true for the rest of us.
In the 25 mile radius around me:
For Civics, 6.4% of dealer stock is available with a manual. For Accords, 3.7% of dealer stock is available with a manual.
I have not dismissed the performance-oriented people on this forum. I have repeatedly stated for the past few years that Honda's lineup lacks balance because it does not offer better sport-oriented vehicles. It's clear that you didn't even really read the post I wrote that YOU quoted.
As for your assertion that: "you guys don't seem to have any problems dismissing the performance guys at the same time you are demanding consideration. "
Perhaps you remember this flame thread from last year? http://www.vtec.net/forums/one-message?message_id=981876&page_number=1&
Here's what I wrote, in 2011. Timestamp of my post is 05-20-2011 21:53
atomiclightbulb wrote:
I'm not a performance enthusiast, but I understand that an elegant, well-engineered, and reasonably priced performance car can really help brand image, especially for a company like Honda.
Unfortunately, brand image is one of those intangibles that is hard to reconcile on a balance sheet. TonyE doesn't believe that performance alone makes a business case for a vehicle, and he may be right in the sense that cars like the Nissan Z have sold poorly in recent years.
Still, there are some cars that capture the imagination of the public and come to be an integral part of a brand. The Ford Mustang is one vehicle that immediately springs to my mind. The problem for Honda is that it let the S2000 stagnate. While drivers could count on continuous improvement of stalwarts like Accord and Civic through the generations, the S2000 did not get a FMC. It's a shame, because I look back on years of reviews and YouTube videos, and the S2000 was and still is legendary.
Honda could have had itself a nice franchise with the S2000 line. With modern design tools and newer technology, I'm sure they had the capability to create an even better next generation car. And at the 40k price point, the S2000 was expensive enough to be considered premium, but not so expensive that it was inaccessible to a broad spectrum of enthusiasts.
It really is a shame. Without a performance car, Honda's product lineup does seem a bit unbalanced to me. |
Sure, there are some people here who don't care about the performance vehicle lineup or the performance oriented customers. I am not one of them. Further arguing about this is a waste of my time.
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A77
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We sell lots of civics with manuals, and have plenty in stock. Demand for Fit manuals probably equals autos too, but none available, practically. When I started with Honda 6 years ago more or less every 4 cylinder vehicle we sold in every trim level had a manual option. Civics also had sunroof options. The model variety has probably been more than halved since then. Wont be long before we can fit everything on one page. Wouldnt surprise me if we see no more Accord sedan manuals.
Only one accord sedan with a manual - SE weiner 177hp. No CRVs. No Element manuals for several years before they got phased out altogether. No leather Civic manuals.
There's more demand for manuals in Canada - 15% by most estimates, and much higher in Quebec. But EX manual civic sedan aside, we continue to have fewer and fewer manual options. Some people buy them as they can drive both and manuals are $1200 cheaper. Not necessarily enthusiasts. Some have never driven an auto and have no such intention.
I don't see this trend stopping - Honda shows no sign of doing anything but restricting choice - and the easy thing to cut is the manual. We only have an Accord SE manual as it carries a lower price which is handy for advertising, and getting people in the showroom. Like 2WD CRVs which we never used to get, but did when the manual CRVs stopped. 1 in a 100 buys one.
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Colin
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A77 wrote:
There's more demand for manuals in Canada - 15% by most estimates, and much higher in Quebec.
I don't see this trend stopping - Honda shows no sign of doing anything but restricting choice - and the easy thing to cut is the manual.
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I wonder if there is a correlation between traffic in the region and manual transmission popularity? We just 'won' a survey for the worst traffic in the US and it's not a coincidence that our manual sales are very poor.
On the second point, I'd refine it further (IMO). Honda is actually ADDING more choice at the expense of manuals. Back when I first started with Acura, there were a LOT of trim levels of Integra (7 in all, if I remember correctly). However, the lineup was much smaller, Legend transitioning to RL, the Vigor transitioning into the TL and the Integra. IMO, lots of trim choice was relatively easy and we could meet most customers needs if we stocked 100-150 Integras (before MOVE). As they added more models and trim levels, it seems to be at the expense of MTs.
With all the product in the lineup that 'really' sells, TL, TSX, MDX, RDX, and (hopefully) ILX it's hard to have good inventory with the multitude of trims available. These days we're lucky to have 100-130 TOTAL in stock. This is all models, all trims, and all colors so it should come as no surprise that our sales are lower (volume wise) than the old days and this means fewer manuals overall.
BUT the volume is in SUVs now, if Acura sold 130K cars (pre-MDX) and 10% were manuals, that was a relatively large number. Now days, if Acura sells 100k cars but half are SUVs, we're down to 50K cars and with MT take rates down to 5%, whose fault is it that manual availability is so poor? With trucks and SUVs comprising more than 50% of all new 'car' sales, it should be no surprise that manuals are now a smaller slice of an ever smaller pie.
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owequitit
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atomiclightbulb wrote:
owequitit wrote:
It isn't moving goal posts. Honda builds them, but the numbers are so few and far between it is nearly impossible to find them, so in essence they may as well not exist.
...
I am happy for your ability to find manual transmission cars. Now, let's validate my point. How many TOTAL Hondas are available in your area so that we can validate the portion of MT vs AT cars, which was a major tenet of my original point?
I know in my closest metro area (Phoenix), I was recently able to find exactly 1 Si, and ZERO regular Hondas or Acuras with an MT. Not a single one. Knowing that there are at least 500 Hondas in my area, that shows a pretty poor proportion. If you have a much larger quantity in your area, then it would explain the greater MT numbers, but may not change the proportion. |
See, your point only applies to your situation. Just because you can't find a manual Honda in your area does not mean the same is true for the rest of us.
In the 25 mile radius around me:
For Civics, 6.4% of dealer stock is available with a manual. For Accords, 3.7% of dealer stock is available with a manual.
I have not dismissed the performance-oriented people on this forum. I have repeatedly stated for the past few years that Honda's lineup lacks balance because it does not offer better sport-oriented vehicles. It's clear that you didn't even really read the post I wrote that YOU quoted.
As for your assertion that: "you guys don't seem to have any problems dismissing the performance guys at the same time you are demanding consideration. "
Perhaps you remember this flame thread from last year? http://www.vtec.net/forums/one-message?message_id=981876&page_number=1&
Here's what I wrote, in 2011. Timestamp of my post is 05-20-2011 21:53
atomiclightbulb wrote:
I'm not a performance enthusiast, but I understand that an elegant, well-engineered, and reasonably priced performance car can really help brand image, especially for a company like Honda.
Unfortunately, brand image is one of those intangibles that is hard to reconcile on a balance sheet. TonyE doesn't believe that performance alone makes a business case for a vehicle, and he may be right in the sense that cars like the Nissan Z have sold poorly in recent years.
Still, there are some cars that capture the imagination of the public and come to be an integral part of a brand. The Ford Mustang is one vehicle that immediately springs to my mind. The problem for Honda is that it let the S2000 stagnate. While drivers could count on continuous improvement of stalwarts like Accord and Civic through the generations, the S2000 did not get a FMC. It's a shame, because I look back on years of reviews and YouTube videos, and the S2000 was and still is legendary.
Honda could have had itself a nice franchise with the S2000 line. With modern design tools and newer technology, I'm sure they had the capability to create an even better next generation car. And at the 40k price point, the S2000 was expensive enough to be considered premium, but not so expensive that it was inaccessible to a broad spectrum of enthusiasts.
It really is a shame. Without a performance car, Honda's product lineup does seem a bit unbalanced to me. |
Sure, there are some people here who don't care about the performance vehicle lineup or the performance oriented customers. I am not one of them. Further arguing about this is a waste of my time.
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It only applies to my situation? How about the other 5 million people in AZ that it also applies to? Surely I can't be the only one in the state that wants either manual/LSD or manual/Navi...
And, if you want to do the leg work, you can search the other 40 or so "unpopulated" states and tell me what you come up with... It applies to a lot more people than just me. In fact, I would bet a fair sum of money that your experience is the exception, not the norm...
And what you are saying is that roughly 3% of Accords are MT, so despite your best efforts to show me just how widely available they are, the % value, falls right in line with my claims? As for the Civic, a value of 6% is higher than I expected, but considering that some of the competition's take rate is around 15-20%, where does Honda stand in the grand scheme?
Honda still shot themselves in the foot.
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owequitit
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Potenza wrote:
owequitit wrote:
I will continue to complain about it until Honda removes their head from their ass...
The are responding to overall criticism of the Civic's interior, and they are INCREASING the availability of MT's in the Accord, as well as the available options that make the car more dynamically enjoyable. Clearly, it would appear that the bitching is starting to work.
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But seriously, an LSD in the ILX? Honda has spoiled you with the Si, which - for only the 2nd time - has just such a gift. Otherwise it's not Honda-like at all to offer one. The TSX 2.4 6MT SE doesn't have one. The RSX Type-S didn't have one. The V6 6MT Accord Coupe doesn't have one. So why did you possibly think the ILX entry-level "it's no boy racer" sedan would have one? Because marketing said it's the "enthusiast oriented" (read: biggest engine) version? If they didn't even care to adjust the spring rates, shock damping, or sway bars from the base models... you're asking a bit much.
Not offering an automatic version was dumb. Not offering an LSD? Not so much. I'm not saying it's a worthless feature or that there aren't people in the world that would appreciate it. I'm just saying it's never going to happen, and outside of a handful of people talking on TOV, no one's ever going to notice or care.
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There are a lot of people besides just TOV talking about it... Of course, that has been mentioned how many times here (and now DCR even linked at least one example) and you still haven't received that part.
Fine, it is impossible for Honda to offer an LSD (let's advocate "progress" by advocating stagnation or regression, that should work...)
Why no MT/Tech, which I have said repeatedly would be the better option of the two?
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team3d
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i stop by acura dealership yesterday & sit in one & i am certainly impress with this car..
i will not spend 30k + on ILX, but i will spend 26k to buy an entry level, luxury brand sedan
the interior is smaller than my 06 jetta, about the same size as my wife's 12 c250... lack of headroom & very dark interior is a drawback for me, but not a deal breaker.
i don't race anymore & i don't modify cars anymore, so 150hp will work for me, ILX will be a great car for me to drive around the city and i don't need to "baby" this car because it's a civic !
with the special lease offer acura is currently offer, i just might pick one up before july 9th
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team3d
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ok, here is my 2cents on manuals on ILX
i owned at-least 20+ cars since 16, only 5 (i think) are automatic
ILX buyers are not looking for manual transmission, at-least not yet, this is an "upgrade" car for consumers that used to own corollas & civics... & most of these consumers are not looking for manual transmissions...
at-least acura did offer 1 ILX model with manual transmission
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Dren
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I wasn't overly thrilled when driving a GS-R. It felt kind of slow. I had more fun with the B16 cars. I'd say this car sounds similar to a GS-R in terms of the performance you get out of the box. The GS-R certainly has more potential.
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