xBeastx
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Sounds too good to be true! I guess we'll have to wait and see. But that also leaves me speculating on the power and fuel efficiency of the new NSX...
Also could the LED headlamps make it to the 2014 MDX?
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venk
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That's cool. However, I think having the 310 HP front wheel version as an option is a mistake from an flagship car image standpoint.
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BachelorFrog
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venk wrote:
That's cool. However, I think having the 310 HP front wheel version as an option is a mistake from an flagship car image standpoint.
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+1. 310hp should come with traditional SHAWD.
FWD is flagship is the worst idea everrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
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silverTL6
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BachelorFrog wrote:
venk wrote:
That's cool. However, I think having the 310 HP front wheel version as an option is a mistake from an flagship car image standpoint.
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+1. 310hp should come with traditional SHAWD.
FWD is flagship is the worst idea everrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
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It's probably meant to compete with the base/FWD versions of these flagships:
Volvo S80
Audi A8
Cadillac XTS
My guess is the traditional SH-AWD setup will phased out since it isn't offered/mentioned in any of their new vehicles (RLX, NSX, ILX, RDX). Especially given the new "green" direction they're heading in (aka hidden exhaust pipe).
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DrWhiner
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BachelorFrog wrote:
+1. 310hp should come with traditional SHAWD.
FWD is flagship is the worst idea everrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
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SH-AWD simply => eSH-AWD
lighter, more horsepower, higher MPG why would anyone stuck w/ old tech.???
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HONDA AFVM
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xAbSoLuTexZeRo wrote:
Sounds too good to be true! I guess we'll have to wait and see. But that also leaves me speculating on the power and fuel efficiency of the new NSX...
Also could the LED headlamps make it to the 2014 MDX?
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What do you think?
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integrator
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It's not linear induction, so don't expect exhilarating launches. This app will be for fuel efficiency.
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HONDA AFVM
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DrWhiner wrote:
BachelorFrog wrote:
+1. 310hp should come with traditional SHAWD.
FWD is flagship is the worst idea everrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
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SH-AWD simply => eSH-AWD
lighter, more horsepower, higher MPG why would anyone stuck w/ old tech.???
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I think these guys would bitch if it had 450 hp, RWD and FLEW over traffic on recycled beer.........You just can't make some people happy.
ME, I think a 4WS Flagship will be very cool. Having OWNED a Honda 4WS Prelude Si.......I know the benefits......It's funny how people forget that there is NO RWD Audi, and most every car they offer is Available with a V6, a matter of fact, they sell MORE V6 and 4cyl cars then V8's........
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HONDA AFVM
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integrator wrote:
It's not linear induction, so don't expect exhilarating launches. This app will be for fuel efficiency.
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I still think there will be "modes" as options. I might have been misinformed on the ILX Hybrid with the CRZ mode system, but I am guessing maybe my source was misinformed.......
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Midi_Amp
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HONDA AFVM wrote:
xAbSoLuTexZeRo wrote:
Sounds too good to be true! I guess we'll have to wait and see. But that also leaves me speculating on the power and fuel efficiency of the new NSX...
Also could the LED headlamps make it to the 2014 MDX?
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What do you think?
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With the obvious faux headlight, it's given... I hope I'm right. Those LED headlamps is a head turner. Minus all glass roof, the headlights are pure luxury.
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Midi_Amp
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HONDA AFVM wrote:
DrWhiner wrote:
BachelorFrog wrote:
+1. 310hp should come with traditional SHAWD.
FWD is flagship is the worst idea everrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
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SH-AWD simply => eSH-AWD
lighter, more horsepower, higher MPG why would anyone stuck w/ old tech.???
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I think these guys would bitch if it had 450 hp, RWD and FLEW over traffic on recycled beer.........You just can't make some people happy.
ME, I think a 4WS Flagship will be very cool. Having OWNED a Honda 4WS Prelude Si.......I know the benefits......It's funny how people forget that there is NO RWD Audi, and most every car they offer is Available with a V6, a matter of fact, they sell MORE V6 and 4cyl cars then V8's........
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I think the guy doesn't know the FWD RLX has 4WS... And I'm pretty sure, he doesn't know what a 4WS is.
Audi's are forgiven because they have Audi TT, R8, V8, V10 and turbo engines. If Honda still kept S-series and continues with the Type-R, the brand will fare better.
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JeffX
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integrator wrote:
It's not linear induction, so don't expect exhilarating launches. This app will be for fuel efficiency.
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I'm not sure what the final product will be like but the eSH-AWD mule that I had the opportunity to drive in Japan launched quite smartly. That car felt pretty quick - I would estimate that it ran 0-60s in the mid to high 5-second range. I would expect the new RLX to be capable of 0-60s in the 6.0 second or less range too. I consider that to be more than adequate, and then you couple that pace with a high degree of luxury and 30mpg combined fuel economy... I'd say that's a mighty impressive combination.
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BachelorFrog
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Midi_Amp wrote:
HONDA AFVM wrote:
DrWhiner wrote:
BachelorFrog wrote:
+1. 310hp should come with traditional SHAWD.
FWD is flagship is the worst idea everrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
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SH-AWD simply => eSH-AWD
lighter, more horsepower, higher MPG why would anyone stuck w/ old tech.???
|
I think these guys would bitch if it had 450 hp, RWD and FLEW over traffic on recycled beer.........You just can't make some people happy.
ME, I think a 4WS Flagship will be very cool. Having OWNED a Honda 4WS Prelude Si.......I know the benefits......It's funny how people forget that there is NO RWD Audi, and most every car they offer is Available with a V6, a matter of fact, they sell MORE V6 and 4cyl cars then V8's........
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I think the guy doesn't know the FWD RLX has 4WS... And I'm pretty sure, he doesn't know what a 4WS is.
Audi's are forgiven because they have Audi TT, R8, V8, V10 and turbo engines. If Honda still kept S-series and continues with the Type-R, the brand will fare better.
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Audi doesnt sell their flagship in FWD form in US. So whatever they do in other countries have no effect on Audi's perception and sales in US.
And I know what 4WS it but according to the mindset of brand-snob buyers, they still think FWD is inferior.
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hondacura
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BachelorFrog wrote:
venk wrote:
That's cool. However, I think having the 310 HP front wheel version as an option is a mistake from an flagship car image standpoint.
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+1. 310hp should come with traditional SHAWD.
FWD is flagship is the worst idea everrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
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They got rid of the traditional SH-AWD because it was heavy, silly!!!! Why would offer a heavy version for a cheaper price that brings down the car and the automaker fuel economy??? You don't make any sense!
Why do you think the RDX Sh-awd was cancelled??? [rhetorical]
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venk
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That's right. From a snob value, both 310HP and FWD, seem like downers.
4WS sounds cool, but to me it feels like it would appeal more to the ILX, TSX type of buyers. Guess the folks at Acura have done their homework and I'm probably wrong.
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EuroGreg
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I'm still worried a bit. I have read positive rewievs of such mule in the EU magazines too, but basically it will be a front wheel drive with 310+ BHP on the front wheels. I beleive it will handle bloody well, but what about torque steer.
I wonder in the present SH-AWD how much part the rear wheels take from propelling the car?
Anyway, I think Acura should offer a real performance sedane, maybe the new TLX with a reversed system so the engine's power goes to the rear or to all wheels aided by motors.
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George Knighton
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| My guess is the traditional SH-AWD setup will phased out.... |
I'd say that's a pretty good guess. :-)
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George Knighton
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Jeff wrote:
I'm not sure what the final product will be like but the eSH-AWD mule that I had the opportunity to drive in Japan launched quite smartly. That car felt pretty quick - I would estimate that it ran 0-60s in the mid to high 5-second range. I would expect the new RLX to be capable of 0-60s in the 6.0 second or less range too. I consider that to be more than adequate, and then you couple that pace with a high degree of luxury and 30mpg combined fuel economy... I'd say that's a mighty impressive combination.
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I agree completely. It could be a game changer if they handle the marketing correctly.
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DrWhiner
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sth interesting:
In the FCX concept [the concept car first shown in 2005 TMS]
3-Motor All- Wheel- Drive delivers powerful driving performance
The FCX Concept drive train features three energy-efficient motors: one in the front and two in the rear.
It seems Honda didn't waste what it looked into in the concept car.
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DrWhiner
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You still don't get it?
1) Those brand -snob were Not the first customers drawn to Acura in 1986 or Lexus in 1990. There are leaders in the market, and there are followers. Should Acura try to attract the leaders, or the followers?
2) There are currently tWO other Japanese lexury brands trying to attract those brand-snob.
3) Back in late 60's early 70's BMW succeeded by looking into a niche, Not by imitating big brother M-B.
4) The FWD vehicle will prob. fill in the vacuum left out by the current car. Those who feel the RL is getting out-of -reach, too tech. heavy, too low mpg, many who bought the RL previously. Those who don't mind a fuel-efficient, good drving FWD near-luxury.
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HONDA AFVM
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DrWhiner wrote:
sth interesting:
In the FCX concept [the concept car first shown in 2005 TMS]
3-Motor All- Wheel- Drive delivers powerful driving performance
The FCX Concept drive train features three energy-efficient motors: one in the front and two in the rear.
It seems Honda didn't waste what it looked into in the concept car.
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No it didn't, you are correct. Problem back then it wasn't possible with NiMH batteries........but with LI and new alloys to make this all possible, smaller motors, chips and faster possessors, it can be done at a lower cost and lighter weight..........
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saitamahonda
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DrWhiner wrote:
You still don't get it?
1) Those brand -snob were Not the first customers drawn to Acura in 1986 or Lexus in 1990. There are leaders in the market, and there are followers. Should Acura try to attract the leaders, or the followers?
2) There are currently tWO other Japanese lexury brands trying to attract those brand-snob.
3) Back in late 60's early 70's BMW succeeded by looking into a niche, Not by imitating big brother M-B.
4) The FWD vehicle will prob. fill in the vacuum left out by the current car. Those who feel the RL is getting out-of -reach, too tech. heavy, too low mpg, many who bought the RL previously. Those who don't mind a fuel-efficient, good drving FWD near-luxury.
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Near luxury is a word snobby people use to try to make them feel better about their overpriced tastes. The rl, base or hybrid, is a luxury car no matter how you look at it. Anyone who says its near luxury probably talks like the arrogant stuffed up nose prick on the Audi commercials. They are just full of themselves.
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mckillio
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I find it funny that people call the RL/X a flagship vehicle. Sure it's Acura's most expensive vehicle but it doesn't compete with the A8, 7 -series etc. It competes with the A6 and 5-series and you can get a 5-series with 300+hp, AWD and it gets 30mpg highway. (The A8 gets 28mpg)
And there may be no RWD drive Audis but the S line are RWD biased.
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xBeastx
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mckillio wrote:
I find it funny that people call the RL/X a flagship vehicle. Sure it's Acura's most expensive vehicle but it doesn't compete with the A8, 7 -series etc. It competes with the A6 and 5-series and you can get a 5-series with 300+hp, AWD and it gets 30mpg highway. (The A8 gets 28mpg)
And there may be no RWD drive Audis but the S line are RWD biased.
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Acura predicts that the hybrid RLX will achieve 30/30 City/Hwy MPG. That's what I meant by 30 MPG.
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98EX4cyl
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mckillio wrote:
I find it funny that people call the RL/X a flagship vehicle. Sure it's Acura's most expensive vehicle but it doesn't compete with the A8, 7 -series etc. It competes with the A6 and 5-series and you can get a 5-series with 300+hp, AWD and it gets 30mpg highway. (The A8 gets 28mpg)
And there may be no RWD drive Audis but the S line are RWD biased.
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They may get 30 EPA Hwy(or close) but the RLX is proposed to get 30city/30hwy/30 combined with AWD.
Comparable BMW 535i AWD gets 21city/30hwy/24combined
Comparable Audi A6 3.0T gets 19city/28hwy/22combined
For combined EPA ratings, the RLX is 25% & 36% better respectively.
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HondaFan1990
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mckillio wrote:
I find it funny that people call the RL/X a flagship vehicle. Sure it's Acura's most expensive vehicle but it doesn't compete with the A8, 7 -series etc. It competes with the A6 and 5-series and you can get a 5-series with 300+hp, AWD and it gets 30mpg highway. (The A8 gets 28mpg)
And there may be no RWD drive Audis but the S line are RWD biased.
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You must be a little confused on the definition of a flagship. It's generally a companies most expensive model, where they show off the most technology and features and things of the like. For most brands, it just so happens to be their biggest car also but that's not the case always. For Audi, it's the A8 while with Acura, it's the RL and to some extent, the ZDX also since they both cost about the same now, not sure about the future RL though.
Just because the RL doesn't compete with the A8, LS, S Class, etc. and competes with the 5 Series, et. al doesn't mean it's less of a luxury car or less of a flagship model because of that. The new RL seems to be filled with tech and all types of stuff, but people still seem to find ways to downgrade it and nit pick everything. So it must be doing something right I say, cause if you don't have haters to pick out your "faults" and keep you relevant, you're doing something wrong then.
Lastly, Audi always seems to get a pass for not having RWD for some reason while others like Acura, Buick, Volvo, Saab, etc. don't get that treatment. RWD biased AWD doesn't mean it should get a pass. It's still AWD. Wouldn't if the Honda system was detecting which tires to send power to be better than just being biased towards the rear to "feel" more like something? Hey....who knows.
Sidenote: some people are very being critical of a car they haven't experienced first hand.
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shaymasdaddy
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HondaFan1990 wrote:
mckillio wrote:
I find it funny that people call the RL/X a flagship vehicle. Sure it's Acura's most expensive vehicle but it doesn't compete with the A8, 7 -series etc. It competes with the A6 and 5-series and you can get a 5-series with 300+hp, AWD and it gets 30mpg highway. (The A8 gets 28mpg)
And there may be no RWD drive Audis but the S line are RWD biased.
|
You must be a little confused on the definition of a flagship. It's generally a companies most expensive model, where they show off the most technology and features and things of the like. For most brands, it just so happens to be their biggest car also but that's not the case always. For Audi, it's the A8 while with Acura, it's the RL and to some extent, the ZDX also since they both cost about the same now, not sure about the future RL though.
Just because the RL doesn't compete with the A8, LS, S Class, etc. and competes with the 5 Series, et. al doesn't mean it's less of a luxury car or less of a flagship model because of that. The new RL seems to be filled with tech and all types of stuff, but people still seem to find ways to downgrade it and nit pick everything. So it must be doing something right I say, cause if you don't have haters to pick out your "faults" and keep you relevant, you're doing something wrong then.
Lastly, Audi always seems to get a pass for not having RWD for some reason while others like Acura, Buick, Volvo, Saab, etc. don't get that treatment. RWD biased AWD doesn't mean it should get a pass. It's still AWD. Wouldn't if the Honda system was detecting which tires to send power to be better than just being biased towards the rear to "feel" more like something? Hey....who knows.
Sidenote: some people are very being critical of a car they haven't experienced first hand.
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Well said.....
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mckillio
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HondaFan1990 wrote:
mckillio wrote:
I find it funny that people call the RL/X a flagship vehicle. Sure it's Acura's most expensive vehicle but it doesn't compete with the A8, 7 -series etc. It competes with the A6 and 5-series and you can get a 5-series with 300+hp, AWD and it gets 30mpg highway. (The A8 gets 28mpg)
And there may be no RWD drive Audis but the S line are RWD biased.
|
You must be a little confused on the definition of a flagship. It's generally a companies most expensive model, where they show off the most technology and features and things of the like. For most brands, it just so happens to be their biggest car also but that's not the case always. For Audi, it's the A8 while with Acura, it's the RL and to some extent, the ZDX also since they both cost about the same now, not sure about the future RL though.
Just because the RL doesn't compete with the A8, LS, S Class, etc. and competes with the 5 Series, et. al doesn't mean it's less of a luxury car or less of a flagship model because of that. The new RL seems to be filled with tech and all types of stuff, but people still seem to find ways to downgrade it and nit pick everything. So it must be doing something right I say, cause if you don't have haters to pick out your "faults" and keep you relevant, you're doing something wrong then.
Lastly, Audi always seems to get a pass for not having RWD for some reason while others like Acura, Buick, Volvo, Saab, etc. don't get that treatment. RWD biased AWD doesn't mean it should get a pass. It's still AWD. Wouldn't if the Honda system was detecting which tires to send power to be better than just being biased towards the rear to "feel" more like something? Hey....who knows.
Sidenote: some people are very being critical of a car they haven't experienced first hand.
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Firstly, I prefaced my post by stating exactly what you just said. Second, I wasn't being critical of the car I was being critical of the people talking about it as if it is supposed to be compared to the A8s, 7s and S classes of the world. When you say a vehicle is a company's flagship it will inevitably get compared to other companies flagship vehicles. And the RL/X is absolutely less of a luxury car than the aforementioned vehicles, if you don't see that, you're blind.
Audi gets a pass because no one misses the RWD when driving their cars and and quite a few would say they're better because of it. Audi also only offers one or two vehicles in the US with fwd A3/4 and they have AWD as an option.
Having said that I think Acura's AWD is awesome and I'm very sad to see it going. I would have loved to have seen a new, lighter version of it.
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HONDA AFVM
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mckillio wrote:
I find it funny that people call the RL/X a flagship vehicle. Sure it's Acura's most expensive vehicle but it doesn't compete with the A8, 7 -series etc. It competes with the A6 and 5-series and you can get a 5-series with 300+hp, AWD and it gets 30mpg highway. (The A8 gets 28mpg)
And there may be no RWD drive Audis but the S line are RWD biased.
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LET ME CLEAR MY THROAT...............30 city, 30 hwy.....AH/Hum......OK, it's clear now.......I don't think those other brands will be able to sing that song in the 60K price range.......
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HONDA AFVM
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98EX4cyl wrote:
mckillio wrote:
I find it funny that people call the RL/X a flagship vehicle. Sure it's Acura's most expensive vehicle but it doesn't compete with the A8, 7 -series etc. It competes with the A6 and 5-series and you can get a 5-series with 300+hp, AWD and it gets 30mpg highway. (The A8 gets 28mpg)
And there may be no RWD drive Audis but the S line are RWD biased.
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They may get 30 EPA Hwy(or close) but the RLX is proposed to get 30city/30hwy/30 combined with AWD.
Comparable BMW 535i AWD gets 21city/30hwy/24combined
Comparable Audi A6 3.0T gets 19city/28hwy/22combined
For combined EPA ratings, the RLX is 25% & 36% better respectively.
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ALSO.......it is said to have "S" class/7 series rear seat room......
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