98EX4cyl
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The Sonata & Elantra sales are slipping...Accord & Civic production is back up to speed...maybe there related??
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atomiclightbulb
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The fanboys literally have nothing to throw anymore. The joke's on them.
Hyundai makes good commuter cars, but the underlying engineering is not yet at the level of Honda. Hyundai works hard and has improved rapidly -- I will give them credit for their accomplishments, but they still have another generation of refinement to go.
Examples: Elantra struggles to make its EPA numbers, and loses to the Civic in real-world fuel economy. Hyundai cheaps out on suspensions: torsion bar in Elantra. The much-trumpeted Veloster is slow, handles poorly, and is overall a joke in the hot hatch world. Even with the turbo, who is going to buy the Veloster over a GTI or WRX? Right now, Hyundai's advantages are interior flash, exterior sheet metal, and electronic toys. As far as the car itself, its better than before, but not the best. It's good, but not yet great.
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integrator
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atomiclightbulb wrote:
The fanboys literally have nothing to throw anymore. The joke's on them.
Hyundai makes good commuter cars, but the underlying engineering is not yet at the level of Honda. Hyundai works hard and has improved rapidly -- I will give them credit for their accomplishments, but they still have another generation of refinement to go.
Examples: Elantra struggles to make its EPA numbers, and loses to the Civic in real-world fuel economy. Hyundai cheaps out on suspensions: torsion bar in Elantra. The much-trumpeted Veloster is slow, handles poorly, and is overall a joke in the hot hatch world. Even with the turbo, who is going to buy the Veloster over a GTI or WRX? Right now, Hyundai's advantages are interior flash, exterior sheet metal, and electronic toys. As far as the car itself, its better than before, but not the best. It's good, but not yet great.
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Agreed. I almost joked that a 'Hyundai fanboy' is an oxymoron. Your statement about torsions bars reminds me of why I'm so against them even in a Fit, Insight, CRZ... I even dislike the McPherson struts and happily pay more for Hondas/Acuras but I expect those better parts to be there.
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P54
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Fashion goes out of style fast.
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according2kev
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P54 wrote:
Fashion goes out of style fast.
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Tell me about it. The Sonata is already starting to look old to me and even the all new Azera... Maybe because it looks similar to the Sonata?
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HondaFan1990
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P54 wrote:
Fashion goes out of style fast.
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Exactly. The Sonata and Elantra look older than the current Civic and Accord in some respects.....again, Hyundai is a gimmick company. Stuff lots of "flash" and technology in a low price while half delivering on the goods.
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saitamahonda
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HondaFan1990 wrote:
P54 wrote:
Fashion goes out of style fast.
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Exactly. The Sonata and Elantra look older than the current Civic and Accord in some respects.....again, Hyundai is a gimmick company. Stuff lots of "flash" and technology in a low price while half delivering on the goods.
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What about the new Azera? thing looks like a Buick. They're done with the Japanese brands and European brands, now onto American. The copycat/metoo companies back at it again. Made In Japan is awesome, too bad we see very little middle-tech coming out of there since it's cheaper to produce in US, China and Korea(though operations of since ceased). Only high-tech manufacturing and development happens in Japan which develops the middle-tech Hyundai/Kia/Samsung/LG use or replicate. Hyundai/Kia/Samsung/LG success is a a clever propaganda fascade. And their fanboys aren't Koreans. Koreans know quality and buy brand names so they go for Apple and BMW/Benz/Lexus.
The iphone4 uses Sony components and the retina display is developed and manufactured in Japan (though I'm sure Steve Jobs tried to reverse-engineer/reproduce it with lower cost manufacturing countries due to his hatred of Japan). Sony's high-end products are still the best but only a few percentage of people demand that kind of quality and very few people outside of Japan experience it. 80% of the world's LCD displays use Fuji Film's technology in their screens but very few people know this. Today's consumers equate newly released as an 'upgrade' and they only understand what they are buying at a superficial level.
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jero
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Pure data...
Hyundai total US sales:
2009 ~435,000 ~26% fleet sales
2010 ~525,000
2011 ~645,000 ~10% fleet sales
2012 ~700,000+ ~5% fleet sales
Production capacity is maxed, discounts are decreasing, and sales are shifting to retail due to demand.
Spin it however you like.
All new Sonata and Genesis coming in 2014. 4 year product cycle... remember when Honda used to do that to stay on top?
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CarPhreakD
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You should have seen the backlash when Insideline and other websites tested the new Genesis 2.0t and the Veloster DCT. Apparently people started using the equation that 1 Hyundai hp= 0.8 real SAE hp.
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DrWhiner
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Funny now sales number is the only one metric that some ToVers use.
From LLN:
Is a return to subprime lending fueling Chrysler’s sales gains?
Chrysler’s sales surged 30 percent in May – continuing a 26-month streak of improved sales – but a new report indicates that a return to subprime lending may be just as responsible for those gains as a fresh vehicle lineup.
According to Experian Automotive, 29 percent of Chrysler’s vehicles loans went to subprime borrowers during the first quarter of 2012. Experian defines a subprime borrow as someone with a credit rating of 680 or below.
In comparison, just 16 percent of Chrysler loans went to subprime buyers during the height of the credit crunch during the second quarter of 2009. [....]
Although Chrysler’s percentage of subprime buyers was above the industry average of 23 percent during the first quarter, the Auburn Hills-based automaker wasn’t the worst offender. About 31 percent of Hyundai- Kia buyers were considered subprime during the first quarter, good enough for tops in the industry.
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jero
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What does Kia having a subprime lender take of 8% points higher than average have to do with anything?
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Hondu
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jero wrote:
Pure data...
Hyundai total US sales:
2009 ~435,000 ~26% fleet sales
2010 ~525,000
2011 ~645,000 ~10% fleet sales
2012 ~700,000+ ~5% fleet sales
Production capacity is maxed, discounts are decreasing, and sales are shifting to retail due to demand.
Spin it however you like.
All new Sonata and Genesis coming in 2014. 4 year product cycle... remember when Honda used to do that to stay on top?
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If production is maxed, how can they sell 55,000 more cars this year?
Of course the 2012 number is pure speculation and could be worse, once the 2013 Accord, Altima and Fusion are available. Honda and Toyota should have no capacity constraints to deal with either, so the number could end up being flat or greater fleet sales.
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jero
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Production is maxed as they project to hit 700,000.
Their only option is to build another plant to increase capacity, which they haven't decided on yet. Instead they are squeezing everything they can capacity wise, reducing fleet sales and decreasing incentives and discounts.
It is all working.
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DrWhiner
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where does it say it's a Kia's problem only?
Knock, knock, .....
Sales of Hyundai's main stable is slipping, more and more sales have to go to those with higher default risk ....
You think it is a sound and good business?
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jero
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Kia/Hyundai are inferior because their buyers have lower credit scores? You think maybe, just maybe this is because they have probably the lowest entry point price wise in the industry?
Plus, who is making the loan?
You're pulling at straws here.
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DrWhiner
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jero wrote:
Kia/Hyundai are inferior because their buyers have lower credit scores? You think maybe, just maybe this is because they have probably the lowest entry point price wise in the industry?
Plus, who is making the loan?
You're pulling at straws here.
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Mitsubishi Motors tried this before, Chrysler is a repeater offender. What's common btn Chrysler and Hyundai? V8 plus RWD, or flashy design?
P.S>. Do Mitsubishi and Chryslers hold high in resale value??
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DrWhiner
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jero wrote:
Pure data...
2012 ~700,000+ ~5% fleet sales
Production capacity is maxed, discounts are decreasing, and sales are shifting to retail due to demand.
Spin it however you like.
All new Sonata and Genesis coming in 2014. 4 year product cycle... remember when Honda used to do that to stay on top?
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Welcome aboard our Hyundai Kia spokesman.
Pure data or crystal ball gazing BS?
2012 Hyundai Kia fleet sales
Feb 8%
Mar 10%
Apr 10%
May 7%
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ClementZ
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They wouldn't be on ToV, lol.
I haven't been a member for long, but I haven't ever seen a Hyundai fanboy here.
They're still on Autoblog and C&D however, spewing things such as "consumers don't yet know how bad Honda products are."
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