jero
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I'm just going to do this every month as a FYI. I will also include avg gas prices in the US (price is actually for the end of the month with recorded sales), and total new US inventory according to cars.com.
We'll see if there are any trends with gas prices/availability/weather/or ???
CR-Z sales summary:
2010
August - 694 (7 days)
September - 1276
October - 1419
November - 1024
December - 876
2011
January - 894
February - 1091
March - 1,685
April - 1,819
May. - 1557
June - 966
July - 878
August - 745
September - 537
October - 289
November - 305
December - 564 ($3.26)
2012
January - 363 ($3.42)
February - 466 ($3.72)
March - 536 ($3.90/gal, Cars.com = 847 available)
April - 334 ($3.80/gal, Cars.com = 713)
May - 296 ($3.63/gal, Cars.com = 694)
2010 monthly avg... 1322
2011 monthly avg... 944
2012 monthly avg... 399
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MasterOfDaDomain
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CR-Z is obviously an failure in the U.S.
And so are all Honda hybrids.
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HONDA AFVM
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jero wrote:
I'm just going to do this every month as a FYI. I will also include avg gas prices in the US (price is actually for the end of the month with recorded sales), and total new US inventory according to cars.com.
We'll see if there are any trends with gas prices/availability/weather/or ???
CR-Z sales summary:
2010
August - 694 (7 days)
September - 1276
October - 1419
November - 1024
December - 876
2011
January - 894
February - 1091
March - 1,685
April - 1,819
May. - 1557
June - 966
July - 878
August - 745
September - 537
October - 289
November - 305
December - 564 ($3.26)
2012
January - 363 ($3.42)
February - 466 ($3.72)
March - 536 ($3.90/gal, Cars.com = 847 available)
April - 334 ($3.80/gal, Cars.com = 713)
May - 296 ($3.63/gal, Cars.com = 694)
2010 monthly avg... 1322
2011 monthly avg... 944
2012 monthly avg... 399
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jero........
THANKS!! For your devoted time in doing this. I know it takes a lot of time to do this and I appreciate it.......
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bailey495
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They need to make the hybrid the HF, a regular civic engine for a mid-range and the Civic Si engine for an Si version.
In other words, return to the trim levels from the CRX. That's what everybody wanted the CR-Z to be - a new CRX.
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99SI
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I've got an idea for the CRZ. Drop the hybrid (change the CRZ to CRX) and do a HX, EX and SI version. I bet they could do 15-20k a year with these options. No reason an HX could not start out at 17k or so with an si pricing out at the current hybrid level. Why would you not want to build on heritage and Brand that the CRX has? I just don't get it.
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xBeastx
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99SI wrote:
I've got an idea for the CRZ. Drop the hybrid (change the CRZ to CRX) and do a HX, EX and SI version. I bet they could do 15-20k a year with these options. No reason an HX could not start out at 17k or so with an si pricing out at the current hybrid level. Why would you not want to build on heritage and Brand that the CRX has? I just don't get it.
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100% agreed. Also, while you're at it Honda, bring back the Civic Hatch and Si Hatch. And I wouldn't mind the CR-Z being a 4-seater.
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rev2damoon
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99SI wrote:
I've got an idea for the CRZ. Drop the hybrid (change the CRZ to CRX) and do a HX, EX and SI version. I bet they could do 15-20k a year with these options. No reason an HX could not start out at 17k or so with an si pricing out at the current hybrid level. Why would you not want to build on heritage and Brand that the CRX has? I just don't get it.
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Just a wild guess here...
Because Honda, or at least some executives within Honda, feel that their past is an "Illusion created by the media."...lol
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TXsalesguy
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I agree that non-hybrid verzions of the CR-Z are needed, but how can this car sell in higher numbers when so few are available to sell? From my current Vehicle Status report:
Total in stock units: 604
Total CR-Zs in stock: 0
Total units on in delivery status: 193
Total CR-Zs on in delivery status: 3
If a large volume dealer like mine has so few, what is happening nationwide with these things? We can't sell what we don't have.
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MalcolmR
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.
Thank you jero.
I've read it's a fabulous car to drive. Lot of fun. Won prestigious Wheels Car Of The year award downunder.
Yet interior is not practical: it's cramped. Lousy outward visibility.
When building this what happened to Honda's values?
Was this an attempt at a marketing car: trying to tap a pseudo green market using a grand old reputation (CRX). Fine engineering, lousy concept???
Malcolm
:)
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JP
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TXsalesguy wrote:
I agree that non-hybrid verzions of the CR-Z are needed, but how can this car sell in higher numbers when so few are available to sell? From my current Vehicle Status report:
Total in stock units: 604
Total CR-Zs in stock: 0
Total units on in delivery status: 193
Total CR-Zs on in delivery status: 3
If a large volume dealer like mine has so few, what is happening nationwide with these things? We can't sell what we don't have.
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CR-Z made in mexico with k23Turbo AWD 6MT, straight to the stardome and to party like a rockstar!
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Ganplosive
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HONDA AFVM wrote:
jero wrote:
I'm just going to do this every month as a FYI. I will also include avg gas prices in the US (price is actually for the end of the month with recorded sales), and total new US inventory according to cars.com.
We'll see if there are any trends with gas prices/availability/weather/or ???
CR-Z sales summary:
2010
August - 694 (7 days)
September - 1276
October - 1419
November - 1024
December - 876
2011
January - 894
February - 1091
March - 1,685
April - 1,819
May. - 1557
June - 966
July - 878
August - 745
September - 537
October - 289
November - 305
December - 564 ($3.26)
2012
January - 363 ($3.42)
February - 466 ($3.72)
March - 536 ($3.90/gal, Cars.com = 847 available)
April - 334 ($3.80/gal, Cars.com = 713)
May - 296 ($3.63/gal, Cars.com = 694)
2010 monthly avg... 1322
2011 monthly avg... 944
2012 monthly avg... 399
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jero........
THANKS!! For your devoted time in doing this. I know it takes a lot of time to do this and I appreciate it.......
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+1
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Ganplosive
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99SI wrote:
I've got an idea for the CRZ. Drop the hybrid (change the CRZ to CRX) and do a HX, EX and SI version. I bet they could do 15-20k a year with these options. No reason an HX could not start out at 17k or so with an si pricing out at the current hybrid level. Why would you not want to build on heritage and Brand that the CRX has? I just don't get it.
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If Honda were any wise (and I hope they do have some kinda trick up their sleeve =]) they'd introduce the next generation CRX utilizing the CRZ platform with the all new ED engine putting out close to 35 mpg combined, and outshine the FR-S. 2 years down the line, introduce a Type-R. Leave the CR-Z as is - the hybrid version of the CRX!
Minimal design and production costs, maximum gain and exposure.
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THX17201
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Ganplosive wrote:
If Honda were any wise (and I hope they do have some kinda trick up their sleeve =]) they'd introduce the next generation CRX utilizing the CRZ platform with the all new ED engine putting out close to 35 mpg combined, and outshine the FR-S.
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I fail to see how a FWD CRZ with an ED engine would outshine the FR-S...
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DCR
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Yeah...no.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=UG2RuRk1R3s#!
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Tigerriot
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Put the regular Civic engine in the CRZ, and make it slightly bigger to allow for 2 seats in the back, and I'd buy one immediately.
What's funny is how easy they could do this, and it's fuel economy would probably stay nearly the same.
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integrator
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I think that illustrates a point that Honda engineered themselves into a corner with the CRZ, being based on the Fit. If they had instead produced it on a shortened Civic platform, the engine change-out to a 1.8L would be easily possible. I dont know if it is, with the smaller Fit engine bay. I think the concern in doing that was competing with the Civic Coupe. So, folks in JDM are enjoying it, but precious few elsewhere.
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iutodd
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99SI wrote:
I've got an idea for the CRZ. Drop the hybrid (change the CRZ to CRX) and do a HX, EX and SI version. I bet they could do 15-20k a year with these options. No reason an HX could not start out at 17k or so with an si pricing out at the current hybrid level. Why would you not want to build on heritage and Brand that the CRX has? I just don't get it.
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Just so you know, and, you should because the numbers are posted in this thread but from January to May of 2011 Honda averaged 1410 CR-Z's a month. Which means it would sell 17,000 units over a year period.
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Frogger
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Still want one... oddly, am balancing getting a motorcycle against the likes of a CR-Z, neither would serve my purposes for more than 1/2 the year.
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A77
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historical and current sales stats of any vehicle sold in Canada or the US are easily available at goodcarbadcar.net
Really good website.
We are still trying to sell all of our original CRZ allocation. We have sold zero civic hybrids or Insights newer than 2010. CRZ is a very likable thing, just totally wrong powerplant for this market. But to sell at all, it needs the Civic Sis engine. Would still be super economical, especially with a long 6th. Honda's continued failure with hybrids seems to do nothing to curb their enthusiasm for them - witness ILX. Which will be a repeat story.
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integrator
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A77 - thanks for posting that site. Tried getting through your link, but got an error. So I'm reposting it just for quick access:
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/
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jero
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I've said it before, but I will say it again...
It is not a supply issue, it is a demand issue. If demand were significantly greater than the supply, then the resale value would reflect this.
It doesn't, so a lack of demand is the primary driver here IMO, not a lack of supply.
Take the old ITR for example. Little supply, monster demand. +$5k mark ups over MSRP, used ones selling for more than MSRP, etc... You do not have this with the CR-Z, in any trim, anywhere. Even with it selling at barely 20% of original estimates.
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Varmint
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Tigerriot wrote:
Put the regular Civic engine in the CRZ, and make it slightly bigger to allow for 2 seats in the back, and I'd buy one immediately.
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http://automobiles.honda.com/civic-si-coupe/
Tigerriot wrote:
What's funny is how easy they could do this, and it's fuel economy would probably stay nearly the same.
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Not even close.
27-28 mpg - http://www.fuelly.com/car/honda/civic%20si
vs
39-40 mpg - http://www.fuelly.com/car/honda/cr-z
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Varmint
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jero wrote:
I've said it before, but I will say it again...
It is not a supply issue, it is a demand issue. If demand were significantly greater than the supply, then the resale value would reflect this.
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Yes and no. There WAS a supply issue following the tsunami and floods. Just four days ago, Honda of Australia announced they are finally getting vehicles from Thailand. However, the impact here in the US ended several months ago.
Now, the demand is so low, the result is something of a catch 22. Dealers won't stock them and buyers won't buy the few models they have in stock. Dealers wont order 2012s because they still have 2011s on the lot. These are often the OEM equipment showcases. (That car they use for demo purposes with every OEM accessory in the catalog. Nobody wants to buy that.) We have members on the CR-Z forums that have searched surrounding states and still not been able to find a 6MT in one of two colors with or without the Nav. So, the few buyers who are interested have a hard time getting what they want.
6-8 months ago, I had hope that Honda would support the car with an Si trim or other engineering improvements. Not gonna happen. Honda isn't following up. With the launch of the FR-S, I can't say I blame them.
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integrator
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interesting comments, Varmint. I wonder what the CRZ situation would be if there had been no tsunami/quake or floods? My estimation would be it would have seen a decent take rate (maybe 15k units the first year) and slowly declined after. I don't believe this car has the staying power for a number of reasons and therefore my bet is there won't be a CRZ again after this model cycle completes. But I hope thats not the case... I would very much like a slightly larger, higher performance version - hybrid or not.
Now, with things as they have happened (post-tsunami and all), I think it was foolish leadership NOT to have installed another engine into the CRZ and offered it as a line extension (ie: CRZ 1.5). Here's why: it would have given them an economy of scale for the bodystyle; It would have eliminated some of the supply issues around the electronics and batteries that are still plaguing Honda; and it would have extended the market and possibly have been a bigger hit for Honda at a time they desperately need one.
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Powered by Honda
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Honestly Honda should KILL the CR-Z and try to save face.
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Ganplosive
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THX17201 wrote:
Ganplosive wrote:
If Honda were any wise (and I hope they do have some kinda trick up their sleeve =]) they'd introduce the next generation CRX utilizing the CRZ platform with the all new ED engine putting out close to 35 mpg combined, and outshine the FR-S.
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I fail to see how a FWD CRZ with an ED engine would outshine the FR-S...
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the same reason why people pick up integra's and civics as opposed to Silvias, RX's, and MR2's
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THX17201
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Ganplosive wrote:
THX17201 wrote:
Ganplosive wrote:
If Honda were any wise (and I hope they do have some kinda trick up their sleeve =]) they'd introduce the next generation CRX utilizing the CRZ platform with the all new ED engine putting out close to 35 mpg combined, and outshine the FR-S.
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I fail to see how a FWD CRZ with an ED engine would outshine the FR-S...
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the same reason why people pick up integra's and civics as opposed to Silvias, RX's, and MR2's
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Integras and Civics had performance motors. I see no reason to believe there will anything like that from the Earth Dismemberment engines...
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DCR
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Solution:
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Tigerriot
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I said Civic engine. Not Civic Si engine. Big difference.
The CRZ with a 140hp Civic engine would still be pretty quick, and it would have fuel economy numbers in the ballpark of the CRZ we currently have.
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owequitit
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iutodd wrote:
99SI wrote:
I've got an idea for the CRZ. Drop the hybrid (change the CRZ to CRX) and do a HX, EX and SI version. I bet they could do 15-20k a year with these options. No reason an HX could not start out at 17k or so with an si pricing out at the current hybrid level. Why would you not want to build on heritage and Brand that the CRX has? I just don't get it.
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Just so you know, and, you should because the numbers are posted in this thread but from January to May of 2011 Honda averaged 1410 CR-Z's a month. Which means it would sell 17,000 units over a year period.
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Except that they didn't maintain the pace. You can blame the tsunami or earthquake as much as you want, but the reality is that after the first few months of initial buzz, the sales steadily declined and have failed to recover.
Besides, even at 17K per year, that still puts Honda shy of the intended mark, so even assuming it had maintained the pace through 2011, it still would not have met expectations. Which is sad in and of itself because 20K is not a lofty goal.
The really sad part is that we have to sit here and keep listening to how Si enthusiasts don't matter, are insignificant etc, and how this is supposed to be the new way forward. But the reality is that Honda sold 20-30K Si's every year, without fail and even in the face of "stiff" competition from other brands. Yet, we are insignificant, and can be damned because the apparent 400 CR-Z owners per month are more important. The sad thing is that numerically, no matter how you look at it, this strategy doesn't pan out in Honda's favor. Even if they could produce Prius levels of sales (which nothing but Prius has), they still see nothing but declining sales vs more conventional but slightly less green models.
Honda needs to get some stronger representation outside of So Cal, because it is apparent that the product planners in Torrance are just as brainwashed as they are back home in Japan.
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