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hondarocks
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The battery on my leased 2009 civic hybrid failed back in January at about 31k miles. I believe that that was mainly due to the stupid old software as it put a lot of strain on the battery itself by constantly discharging and recharging it! AFTER the dealer installed the new battery, they also reprogrammed the software which I believe is on all the new Honda hybrids.
The driving experience now is much better as the battery DOES NOT just randomly discharge completely, if at all, from a full charge. In fact, it hasn't gone below 3 bars, holds a charge quite well and rarely does it struggle to get up to speed because the battery almost always assists the engine. I am also hesitant to end my lease as I already extended it for 6 months. I might extend it again for another 6 months as the gas prices are still kind of high and I am only paying $199/month for it!
Any other hybrid owners have this same experience?
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TonyEX
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hondarocks wrote:
The battery on my leased 2009 civic hybrid failed back in January at about 31k miles. I believe that that was mainly due to the stupid old software as it put a lot of strain on the battery itself by constantly discharging and recharging it! AFTER the dealer installed the new battery, they also reprogrammed the software which I believe is on all the new Honda hybrids.
The driving experience now is much better as the battery DOES NOT just randomly discharge completely, if at all, from a full charge. In fact, it hasn't gone below 3 bars, holds a charge quite well and rarely does it struggle to get up to speed because the battery almost always assists the engine. I am also hesitant to end my lease as I already extended it for 6 months. I might extend it again for another 6 months as the gas prices are still kind of high and I am only paying $199/month for it!
Any other hybrid owners have this same experience?
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Our battery had not died as of 120K miles and we had the firmware update around 80K miles.
When that got done the battery no longer drops to almost nothing from an almost full..
I have seen the battery go down to two or one bar when (a) going up a big hill or (b) when driving off the house in the mornings. When that happens I will get no assist until the battery goes up to four bars.
However, if the discharge happens on the freeway, at 80mph, I've noticed that often, on the recharge cycle, the display stays stuck at three bars for quite a while and then suddenly goes back up to full charge. Boom!
Since three bars no longer gives you IMA assist, I figure that the new firmware does indeed charge the battery deeper before allowing it to discharge (provide assist).
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DCR
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I bought my HCH with the software update already done, so I do not have a frame of reference. My battery does go below 3 bars and I don't notice it assisting as much as you describe.
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hondarocks
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TonyE: That's great that the battery has lasted you for that long! I drive mostly in the city so I am assuming that it puts a lot of strain on the battery as opposed to driving it on the highway and therefore I can't say much about how it charges on the highway for me. I really wanted to buy it after the lease ends but after the battery issue I am hesitant to do so even though it has warranty and what not. The battery charge DID go down to a bar last weekend when it was hot and I had AC running continuously! It also didn't help that I was doing multiple short trips from one store to another which did not give the car enough time to recharge the battery. I think that the engine itself does a better job of recharging the batteries than say the regenerative breaks. Idk?
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hondarocks
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DCR: When I first got the car, I had to go get a software update done at the dealer as the IMA/check engine light came on at about 5K miles. It did not do much until the battery finally died back in January. May be the dealer prolonged the battery life with the update and tried to update the firmware again multiple times when the IMA/check engine light came on multiple times which did not fix anything. They were finally able to retrieve the code for the battery change when I went to the dealer the 3rd time.
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TonyEX
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hondarocks wrote:
TonyE: That's great that the battery has lasted you for that long! I drive mostly in the city so I am assuming that it puts a lot of strain on the battery as opposed to driving it on the highway and therefore I can't say much about how it charges on the highway for me. I really wanted to buy it after the lease ends but after the battery issue I am hesitant to do so even though it has warranty and what not. The battery charge DID go down to a bar last weekend when it was hot and I had AC running continuously! It also didn't help that I was doing multiple short trips from one store to another which did not give the car enough time to recharge the battery. I think that the engine itself does a better job of recharging the batteries than say the regenerative breaks. Idk?
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My current "commute" is three miles the long way with a bunch (ten) of stupid lights that the traffic academics at UCI decided to do research with.
Ergo, four minutes driving, six minutes waiting at lights.
Also we're on the hill side to hill side.. so it's up and down and up..
Consequently the battery does not get much of a chance to charge and the mileage is under 30mpg.
I think this is the worst case for IMA... very short trips with lots and lots of stops. The battery does not charge and there is little IMA assist.
Once I go farther away.. like Costco (10 mile round trip), where I can hook up on larger arterial with speed limits at 55 and stretch out the car the batteries charge and the fuel efficiency jumps. To give you an example, if I gas up at Costco and reset the trip computer, when I get home I see 34mpg or more.
So, yes, the worst case is exactly what you describe.
Oh, btw, most of the 120K batteries were done on freeways.. And of those, likely 35K were done on cruise control at 80mph. Where wear and tear is minimal. I mean, we've done three brake jobs on the car.. we put new front rotors at 95K miles and we're still in the first set of shocks.
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WongKN
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After testing a number, actually most of Honda's hybrid models except the MMC Insight and the Jazz (Fit) Hybrid (I will get my chance in August), my opinion is that 'brake charging' is best accomplished by getting into closed throttle without braking or with as little braking as possible.
I notice that when you properly engage the brakes, the charging is reduced. But at closed throttle cruising, or coasting down, the ECU uses the charging to create the 'engine braking' effect.
In models like the CR-Z, actually all IMA models by now, when the throttle is closed, the engine 'shuts off', the valves are deactivated and there is no fuel flow. This saves fuel and improves fuel consumption.
Then to create the normal engine braking effect, they start charging the IMA battery. The retardation from the IMA motor now running in reverse mode as a generator creates that effect. But it is limited as it is only a charger and not a true retarder, i.e. whatever resistance is there due to the charging process only.
So once we need more braking power, we need to properly press the brakes, which now comes into play. For some reason, the charging now almost shut off by the ECU.
In my test of the CR-Z, I ran down the battery charge from variously, 6, 7, even 8 full bars with a only a few runs for 0-60mph tests. After that, I just took a drive on the roads around the test area (it was an isolated road located off an equally lightly traffic'ed area on weekends). What I do is I accelerate quickly up to some speed and then simply coast around, letting the charge meter go to maximum as much as possible. It was possible to go from 2 or even 1 bar back up to 6 bars with only a couple of minutes of coasting like this.
Of course, all these are from just review driving experience, over an extended weekend (Fri to Mon), not real owner experience so YMMV.
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HONDA AFVM
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WongKN wrote:
After testing a number, actually most of Honda's hybrid models except the MMC Insight and the Jazz (Fit) Hybrid (I will get my chance in August), my opinion is that 'brake charging' is best accomplished by getting into closed throttle without braking or with as little braking as possible.
I notice that when you properly engage the brakes, the charging is reduced. But at closed throttle cruising, or coasting down, the ECU uses the charging to create the 'engine braking' effect.
In models like the CR-Z, actually all IMA models by now, when the throttle is closed, the engine 'shuts off', the valves are deactivated and there is no fuel flow. This saves fuel and improves fuel consumption.
Then to create the normal engine braking effect, they start charging the IMA battery. The retardation from the IMA motor now running in reverse mode as a generator creates that effect. But it is limited as it is only a charger and not a true retarder, i.e. whatever resistance is there due to the charging process only.
So once we need more braking power, we need to properly press the brakes, which now comes into play. For some reason, the charging now almost shut off by the ECU.
In my test of the CR-Z, I ran down the battery charge from variously, 6, 7, even 8 full bars with a only a few runs for 0-60mph tests. After that, I just took a drive on the roads around the test area (it was an isolated road located off an equally lightly traffic'ed area on weekends). What I do is I accelerate quickly up to some speed and then simply coast around, letting the charge meter go to maximum as much as possible. It was possible to go from 2 or even 1 bar back up to 6 bars with only a couple of minutes of coasting like this.
Of course, all these are from just review driving experience, over an extended weekend (Fri to Mon), not real owner experience so YMMV.
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The IMA in the CRZ is not the same as that in the Civic. There are many differences.........There is no electric only mode, the battery is 100.7 volts vs the Civic which is 158 volts....The Civic recharges best with a light hold on the breaks then the generation of power back to the batter is greater then coasting. Push harder and the brakes engage..........
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HONDA AFVM
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hondarocks wrote:
The battery on my leased 2009 civic hybrid failed back in January at about 31k miles. I believe that that was mainly due to the stupid old software as it put a lot of strain on the battery itself by constantly discharging and recharging it! AFTER the dealer installed the new battery, they also reprogrammed the software which I believe is on all the new Honda hybrids.
The driving experience now is much better as the battery DOES NOT just randomly discharge completely, if at all, from a full charge. In fact, it hasn't gone below 3 bars, holds a charge quite well and rarely does it struggle to get up to speed because the battery almost always assists the engine. I am also hesitant to end my lease as I already extended it for 6 months. I might extend it again for another 6 months as the gas prices are still kind of high and I am only paying $199/month for it!
Any other hybrid owners have this same experience?
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Most of the battery failures are not actually the battery it's self, it is the PCU (Power Control Unit) If anything fails in the battery pack, Honda wants EVERYTHING back to see why.....it could be a burned out cooling fan, the IMA light will come on and OUT comes the battery and a new one comes in. Honda wants to know WHY the fan motor stopped working.........
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fladdams2k1
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Talk about coincidence, I just bought a beautiful 2009 Civic Hybrid last month; 31k miles, grey with leather and nav, its a sharp car..and unfortunately, thats where the appeal ends abruptly.
This car is also experiencing the really fast charge, discharge, no reliable IMA assist, no auto-stop, DISMAL MPG (32-35) problem. Even hypermiling and coasting, the best I've seen is 37. The safety issue is more frustrating though - there's nothing like trying to get into traffic and having the assist crap out after you've already pulled out. Its the same thing every morning; I leave with a "full" IMA battery charge, get less than a mile from the house and its completely gone and no assist, when I need it most. It has almost stalled on a couple ocassions as well.
Even though its only been a month, I pretty much hate this POS. My 2004 Civic Hybrid never experienced ANY of these problems. It never once failed to provide assist (or have the assist quit), I routinely got 45 mpg in mixed driving (highest was 51) and never had a single mechanical issue. I should've never traded it in on this 2009. My reasoning was, hey, its 5 years newer, it must be better. Yeah right.
I've already contacted the dealer to see if they'll take it back. We'll see. If I get stuck with this defective hunk of crap, I guess I'll start the long arduous process of fighting the Honda dealer on trying to get it fixed. Check out greenhybrid or hybridcars if you want to read up on the 2009 Civic Hybrid battery debacle. I only wish I'd read up BEFORE I bought it.
Honda, word of advice: Perfect your product before expanding the application. There's a well documented problem, particularly on the 2006-2009s so own up to it. How my first gen Civic Hybrid could be such a peach and this a total lemon defies all conventional logic. This will be my LAST Honda Hybrid.
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hondarocks
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fladdams2k1 wrote:
Talk about coincidence, I just bought a beautiful 2009 Civic Hybrid last month; 31k miles, grey with leather and nav, its a sharp car..and unfortunately, thats where the appeal ends abruptly.
This car is also experiencing the really fast charge, discharge, no reliable IMA assist, no auto-stop, DISMAL MPG (32-35) problem. Even hypermiling and coasting, the best I've seen is 37. The safety issue is more frustrating though - there's nothing like trying to get into traffic and having the assist crap out after you've already pulled out. Its the same thing every morning; I leave with a "full" IMA battery charge, get less than a mile from the house and its completely gone and no assist, when I need it most. It has almost stalled on a couple ocassions as well.
Even though its only been a month, I pretty much hate this POS. My 2004 Civic Hybrid never experienced ANY of these problems. It never once failed to provide assist (or have the assist quit), I routinely got 45 mpg in mixed driving (highest was 51) and never had a single mechanical issue. I should've never traded it in on this 2009. My reasoning was, hey, its 5 years newer, it must be better. Yeah right.
I've already contacted the dealer to see if they'll take it back. We'll see. If I get stuck with this defective hunk of crap, I guess I'll start the long arduous process of fighting the Honda dealer on trying to get it fixed. Check out greenhybrid or hybridcars if you want to read up on the 2009 Civic Hybrid battery debacle. I only wish I'd read up BEFORE I bought it.
Honda, word of advice: Perfect your product before expanding the application. There's a well documented problem, particularly on the 2006-2009s so own up to it. How my first gen Civic Hybrid could be such a peach and this a total lemon defies all conventional logic. This will be my LAST Honda Hybrid.
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see if the dealer will replace the battery? After they replaced mine, my experience with the car has been like falling in love with it all over again! It drives like a dream and has a lot of low end torque now! I am gonna hate to let it go come this December!
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fladdams2k1
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Thanks Hondarocks, I plan to try and drop it off next week. I was waiting to hear back from the dealer, but their silence on this issue is pretty deafening in its own way.
I am glad to hear yours is back to its old self. When the assist is actually working, what a difference between this one and the old one! Much more low end like you said.
The one thing that concerns me is there are reports of Honda not even entertaining the idea of fixing it until the IMA light comes on. Hopefully my experience will be different. More to come...
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hondarocks
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fladdams2k1 wrote:
Thanks Hondarocks, I plan to try and drop it off next week. I was waiting to hear back from the dealer, but their silence on this issue is pretty deafening in its own way.
I am glad to hear yours is back to its old self. When the assist is actually working, what a difference between this one and the old one! Much more low end like you said.
The one thing that concerns me is there are reports of Honda not even entertaining the idea of fixing it until the IMA light comes on. Hopefully my experience will be different. More to come...
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NP...Unfortunately, your last point is true. They offered to change my AC setting to "eco" when I initially complained about it which didn't do jack. When the IMA light DID come on, I had to go to them multiple times to get it fixed as they kept doing a firmware reboot/update until they were able to "retrieve" the code for the battery replacement! It was a hassle but it has been worth it.
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DCR
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fladdams2k1 wrote:
Talk about coincidence, I just bought a beautiful 2009 Civic Hybrid last month; 31k miles, grey with leather and nav, its a sharp car..and unfortunately, thats where the appeal ends abruptly.
This car is also experiencing the really fast charge, discharge, no reliable IMA assist, no auto-stop, DISMAL MPG (32-35) problem. Even hypermiling and coasting, the best I've seen is 37. The safety issue is more frustrating though - there's nothing like trying to get into traffic and having the assist crap out after you've already pulled out. Its the same thing every morning; I leave with a "full" IMA battery charge, get less than a mile from the house and its completely gone and no assist, when I need it most. It has almost stalled on a couple ocassions as well.
Even though its only been a month, I pretty much hate this POS. My 2004 Civic Hybrid never experienced ANY of these problems. It never once failed to provide assist (or have the assist quit), I routinely got 45 mpg in mixed driving (highest was 51) and never had a single mechanical issue. I should've never traded it in on this 2009. My reasoning was, hey, its 5 years newer, it must be better. Yeah right.
I've already contacted the dealer to see if they'll take it back. We'll see. If I get stuck with this defective hunk of crap, I guess I'll start the long arduous process of fighting the Honda dealer on trying to get it fixed. Check out greenhybrid or hybridcars if you want to read up on the 2009 Civic Hybrid battery debacle. I only wish I'd read up BEFORE I bought it.
Honda, word of advice: Perfect your product before expanding the application. There's a well documented problem, particularly on the 2006-2009s so own up to it. How my first gen Civic Hybrid could be such a peach and this a total lemon defies all conventional logic. This will be my LAST Honda Hybrid.
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I do not have the battery issues you describe, but I would be happy with 32-35 at this point, because I am stuck right around 30.
If you have to sell it, good luck. I have had maybe 3 people interested in the months I have been selling mine, and one of them was a scammer.
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fladdams2k1
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DCR wrote:
fladdams2k1 wrote:
Talk about coincidence, I just bought a beautiful 2009 Civic Hybrid last month; 31k miles, grey with leather and nav, its a sharp car..and unfortunately, thats where the appeal ends abruptly.
This car is also experiencing the really fast charge, discharge, no reliable IMA assist, no auto-stop, DISMAL MPG (32-35) problem. Even hypermiling and coasting, the best I've seen is 37. The safety issue is more frustrating though - there's nothing like trying to get into traffic and having the assist crap out after you've already pulled out. Its the same thing every morning; I leave with a "full" IMA battery charge, get less than a mile from the house and its completely gone and no assist, when I need it most. It has almost stalled on a couple ocassions as well.
Even though its only been a month, I pretty much hate this POS. My 2004 Civic Hybrid never experienced ANY of these problems. It never once failed to provide assist (or have the assist quit), I routinely got 45 mpg in mixed driving (highest was 51) and never had a single mechanical issue. I should've never traded it in on this 2009. My reasoning was, hey, its 5 years newer, it must be better. Yeah right.
I've already contacted the dealer to see if they'll take it back. We'll see. If I get stuck with this defective hunk of crap, I guess I'll start the long arduous process of fighting the Honda dealer on trying to get it fixed. Check out greenhybrid or hybridcars if you want to read up on the 2009 Civic Hybrid battery debacle. I only wish I'd read up BEFORE I bought it.
Honda, word of advice: Perfect your product before expanding the application. There's a well documented problem, particularly on the 2006-2009s so own up to it. How my first gen Civic Hybrid could be such a peach and this a total lemon defies all conventional logic. This will be my LAST Honda Hybrid.
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I do not have the battery issues you describe, but I would be happy with 32-35 at this point, because I am stuck right around 30.
If you have to sell it, good luck. I have had maybe 3 people interested in the months I have been selling mine, and one of them was a scammer.
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Thanks DCR, I will keep that in mind. Looks like I will be holding on to it....
UPDATE: Took it to the Honda Dealer last night and dropped it off for them to examine and road test. I received a call today that my car has an "internal battery failure" and the replacement will be in tomorrow. I had not received an IMA light activation, but it's been really bad the past few days in the number of regeneration/loss of IMA cycles. Either way, getting a new battery and I hope that fixes this issue. I cant help but be a little excited. I managed to eek out 37-38 MPG with the defective battery and little to no IMA, so I am hoping that 42-45 mpg (and reliable acceleration) are right around the corner with the new battery.
I'll keep you guys posted.
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Hondasrule
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| DCR wrote: [...] I do not have the battery issues you describe, but I would be happy with 32-35 at this point, because I am stuck right around 30. [...] |
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DCR
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Hondasrule wrote:
| DCR wrote: [...] I do not have the battery issues you describe, but I would be happy with 32-35 at this point, because I am stuck right around 30. [...] |
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Won't matter anymore, since my FR-S will be here in 4-5 weeks. You are probably right about the tires.
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