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JP
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http://blog.caranddriver.com/why-honda-is-in-even-more-trouble-than-you-think-deep-thoughts/
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Potenza
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Fixed the link for you:
http://blog.caranddriver.com/why-honda-is-in-even-more-trouble-than-you-think-deep-thoughts/
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nj
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Read it a little bit ago...
It puts everything into perspective quite well... and I'm afraid he might be right.
There's still time for Honda to save itself. And by god it starts with the Accord.
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atomiclightbulb
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I disagree with the opinion of the blogger.
| Other than the excellent Fit, recent succeeding versions of existing Honda models have tended to be fussier, cheaper, and generally less interesting than the cars they superseded. |
This is generally true from Model Year 2008 through Model Year 2012. The following transitions were lackluster:
8G Accord Sedan (interior quality down, VCM V6)
2G TSX Sedan (bigger, less nimble, mediocre steering)
4G TL (awful styling)
2G Pilot (interior controls confusing, odd grille)
9G Civic (interior materials and design worse, slow handling)
And Honda has had some stupid product launches. None of these cars should ever have come to market, and if I had been in charge of HMC, would have stopped these in the N. American market:
ZDX (utterly pointless)
Crosstour (too large, very ugly)
2G Insight (too small, poor value for USDM)
CR-Z (neither fast, nor very efficient)
BUT: There are signs that Honda has listened. They have had some good recent products:
4G Odyssey (good utility, improved ergonomics and efficiency)
4G CR-V (improved interior design, improved controls, improved 4WD system, improved efficiency -- overall a well balanced design)
2G RDX (vastly improved interior, design, refinement)
ILX (nice styling, nice interior design)
I believe we are at an inflection point. Honda started slipping in 2007 (Model Year 2008) and had launch after launch of mediocre products in 2008, 2009, and 2010. I see 2010/2011 as the bottoming out, and products like the CR-V, RDX, and ILX as the beginning of a turnaround.
I think we'll really know where Honda stands when the Earth Dreams Technology engines and the plugin-hybrid platform launch this fall. If the new powertrain technology proves to be better than the competition, Honda will be well on its way to regaining leadership and mindshare.
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Hondarulez
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The author seems to pick examples just to prove his points - the resistance against V6, turbo 4, Crosstour, RDX, HondaJet, and Asimo. I think all companies make mistakes, but I thought Honda in general fixes the mistakes quickly.
They didn't want to develop a V6 for the Accord, they fixed that.
Engine downsizing using boost doesn't quite work in the real world. Given Honda's engineering background, why make something that doesn't work well just to satisfy car journalists?
1g RDX is a decent vehicle IMO. But for those who are against turbo 4 and sh-awd in a small cuv, the "mistakes" have been corrected with the 2nd gen RDX.
Honda is not just car and motorcycle company. Honda sells power equipment and researches in many areas such as fuel cell technology, robotics, and the planes. Not saying it will happen, but perhaps those technologies can be apply back to the cars one day?
I think the same analysis made by the author can be applied to quite a few car companies too. Toyota and Mercedes both had issues with interior quality at some point in recent years, for instance.
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TonyEX
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A very ethnocentric article.
The reason GM got killed was because (a) it's unionized, (b) had too many product lines, (c) was not an engineering driven company and (d) uniquely american - with a small footprint in Europe.
The issues at Honda are marketing driven.
Honestly, I've been driving a Crosstour, and it's uglyness is simple to fix... chop the rear fenders and put the front end of the Accord... from a driving and passenger perspective, GM and Ford would love to have something like the Crosstour. The sucker hauls ass.
Asimo and the Honda Jet are byproducts of Honda's 50 year plan. So far as I know, only Toyota and Honda have such plans.
And, the writer totally ignored Honda's global reach... like selling those small motorcycles in 3rd world countries and cheap cars in India!
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Potenza
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Hondarulez wrote:
The author seems to pick examples just to prove his points - the resistance against V6, turbo 4, Crosstour, RDX, HondaJet, and Asimo.
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Yet I'm not sure what that opinion has to do with the demise of the company.
And what's his point about F1? Doesn't Honda have a history of racing and a history in F1? Yet building up and then owning a team there was a massive mistake? An "undisciplined pursuit of more" in a step towards the company's demise? Please. Just because Honda left after the Lehman crisis does not make it a mistake to have participated and invested. In fact, most think the very opposite - that leaving was a mistake.
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sadlerau
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Potenza wrote:
And what's his point about F1? Doesn't Honda have a history of racing and a history in F1? Yet building up and then owning a team there was a massive mistake? An "undisciplined pursuit of more" in a step towards the company's demise? Please. Just because Honda left after the Lehman crisis does not make it a mistake to have participated and invested. In fact, most think the very opposite - that leaving was a mistake.
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The proof that leaving was a mistake is Brawn winning the World Championship the following year!
But then I only live for racing, and bottom lines are secondary! :)
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P54
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Do you want to hear the truth? From Honda? Here it is :
Next generation gasoline engine
Next generation CVTs
All new compact diesel engine
New Hybrid system
Electric powertrain for EVs
"Aim to achieve top-of-industry fuel efficiency and fun of driving for every category within three years."
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330R
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No, I'm tired of hearing from Honda. I'm ready to see from Honda. And I'm ready for them to deliver something. And put "fun of driving" IN FRONT OF "fuel efficiency" on at least one product.
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notyper
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I'm pretty sure that the fun of driving claim will go something like this:
"There is not another car that returns the fuel economy of the Civic/Accord/TSX/Whatever that is as fun to drive"
Of course, many of us would rather hear that "there is not a car as fun to drive as this one that get's better gas mileage."
Subtle difference, but important. Anyone want to wager on whether or not that first phrase is true or not in a year?
SC
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TonyEX
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notyper wrote:
I'm pretty sure that the fun of driving claim will go something like this:
"There is not another car that returns the fuel economy of the Civic/Accord/TSX/Whatever that is as fun to drive"
Of course, many of us would rather hear that "there is not a car as fun to drive as this one that get's better gas mileage."
Subtle difference, but important. Anyone want to wager on whether or not that first phrase is true or not in a year?
SC
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So.. you want Viagra instead of ED?
Sorry, I could NOT resist it.. ;-D
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ClementZ
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P54 wrote:
Do you want to hear the truth? From Honda? Here it is :
Next generation gasoline engine
Next generation CVTs
All new compact diesel engine
New Hybrid system
Electric powertrain for EVs
"Aim to achieve top-of-industry fuel efficiency and fun of driving for every category within three years."
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Sorry, I'm just curious;
But how exactly is Honda going to measure "fun of driving?"
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P54
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Isn't that what Honda always has been known for and you ask how is Honda going to measure "fun of driving"???
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notyper
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Heh.
I certainly don't want Efficient Dynamics. And I don't want Earth Dreams. And I certainly don't want any sort of dysfunction. :)
@P54 - what clement was getting at is that the most "fun to drive" is a pretty meaningless marketing claim. A goal which can be attained simply by deeming it so.
SC
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ClementZ
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P54 wrote:
Isn't that what Honda always has been known for and you ask how is Honda going to measure "fun of driving"???
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No, what I'm saying is that fuel effiency is quantitative; it can be proven with numbers, and as such, it can be the best in class, factually.
"Fun of driving," however isn't. I can understand that they want to make their cars the most dynamically engaging in their respective classes, but that isn't something that can be measured. For example, I think Hondas drive better than anything bar BMWs, but I have friends who prefer VW to everything. "Fun of driving" to me seems completely based on opinion.
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P54
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At least they are aiming for something and based on past experience I think Honda knows a little about "fun to drive" and many a customers have learnt to appreciate that. Not all manufacturers have the same goal.
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Mr. Taggart
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ClementZ wrote:
P54 wrote:
Isn't that what Honda always has been known for and you ask how is Honda going to measure "fun of driving"???
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No, what I'm saying is that fuel effiency is quantitative; it can be proven with numbers, and as such, it can be the best in class, factually.
"Fun of driving," however isn't. I can understand that they want to make their cars the most dynamically engaging in their respective classes, but that isn't something that can be measured. For example, I think Hondas drive better than anything bar BMWs, but I have friends who prefer VW to everything. "Fun of driving" to me seems completely based on opinion.
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Fuel efficiency can only be quantitative to EPA standards and not real world driving, so how would one prove best in class in real world driving that is fun?
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Chocs
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Mr. Taggart wrote:
ClementZ wrote:
P54 wrote:
Isn't that what Honda always has been known for and you ask how is Honda going to measure "fun of driving"???
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No, what I'm saying is that fuel effiency is quantitative; it can be proven with numbers, and as such, it can be the best in class, factually.
"Fun of driving," however isn't. I can understand that they want to make their cars the most dynamically engaging in their respective classes, but that isn't something that can be measured. For example, I think Hondas drive better than anything bar BMWs, but I have friends who prefer VW to everything. "Fun of driving" to me seems completely based on opinion.
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Fuel efficiency can only be quantitative to EPA standards and not real world driving, so how would one prove best in class in real world driving that is fun?
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Isn't real world mileage quantitative?
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MalcolmR
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.
Honda products were and are known to be superior to own and drive. They have a fun factor. From the quality reliability, ease of use, handling, etc. they're fun. NO HASSLES.
Ask Honda owners.
It's intangible and apart from uncommon mistakes, Hondas are different. Just sitting in them and even more so driving them makes a difference.
My wife wanted AWD. So we sold our CR-V and bought a Forester. We admire Subaru. Solid reputation.
In most ways though the new Forester is not even close to the eight year old CR-V. Except in the way AWD goes around corners.
Market share, word-of-mouth, customer loyalty, ... many measurements combine as evidence of fun factor.
Like owning an Apple compared with a Windows box. Ease of use, reliability, care in design, ease of use, NO HASSLES, ...
Even mowing the grass with a Honda mower is fun. It works so easily. Whenever I use it I appreciate the attention to detail that shouts Honda cares enough to pay attention to the detail.
Isn't it fun to know that the engineers care that much more? That translates into fun on the road.
Malcolm
:)
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Ultima
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MalcolmR wrote:
.
Honda products were known to be superior to own and drive. They had a fun factor.
:)
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Fixed.
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revvin
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A silly article that digs deep into the past to suit his viewpoint. Honda is a much younger company that was making stride after stride in the 80s and early 90s, what we like to think of as the golden years. Those minor missteps during that time were just that, minor. You can't compare the honda 80s to the gm 80s, that is laughable. You can, however compare gm 80s to honda of today, with their current marketing slogan of buying hondas because they're hondas and nothing else.
That Honda marketing would see it's customers as idiots who don't cross shop and are devoid of logic is a new development.
Resting on their laurels. Selling based on price and not value. Confidence based on some imperceptible metric. That's where they start to sound like GM.
I don't even know where this attitude came from, they've never had the high of number 1 carmaker in the world. Shame.
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HONDA AFVM
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Potenza wrote:
Hondarulez wrote:
The author seems to pick examples just to prove his points - the resistance against V6, turbo 4, Crosstour, RDX, HondaJet, and Asimo.
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Yet I'm not sure what that opinion has to do with the demise of the company.
And what's his point about F1? Doesn't Honda have a history of racing and a history in F1? Yet building up and then owning a team there was a massive mistake? An "undisciplined pursuit of more" in a step towards the company's demise? Please. Just because Honda left after the Lehman crisis does not make it a mistake to have participated and invested. In fact, most think the very opposite - that leaving was a mistake.
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It has to do WITH WHO is making the judgment calls........If they would have put the Crosstour on FB and TOV as an Idea for a production, we would be selling a FULL BLOWN WAGON, not the Crosstour as it sits today, the PUBLIC would NEVER have agreed to it...........I think it is a GREAT CAR, I would own one, but if I had a LIKE Wagon to choose from, I would pick the wagon.........THE PUBLIC IS REJECTING IT!
Honda has build vehicles in the past 10 years that have MISSED the marketing class it expected.......The Element, the "Dorm room on wheels" Well, more like the Retirement home on wheels.........Most of my customers are over 60..........The Insight 1st gen.......16,000 in 7 years........WTF.........2nd gen Insight, I was SO EXCITED about this car, I wanted one, I posted on here I was going to buy one........then I sat in the back seat.........SEE YA!.......and when you sell Toyota's too.........it's an embarrassment........THE PUBLIC REJECTED IT! The CRZ.........WTF, I love it too, but I am not going to buy 3,000 a month, the PUBLIC has REJECTED IT!..........the Ridgeline, I love that too.........AGAIN, the PUBLIC HAS REJECTED IT............ZDX..........Again, (I must be NUTS) I think it is SO COOL, but the PUBLIC HAS REJECTED THAT.........
If the Accord can't make the cut, it's going to be a hard year next year..........People are losing their jobs left and right, supporting 2 and 3 family members.........they want a car that makes them feel SPECIAL.........And there are a LOT of other brands, not the quality or reliability that Honda has, but people want LOOKS, and luxury for not a lot of money..........Honda is not there......and people will PAY extra for a Honda, but not if it is ugly........SURE, the Civic is selling VERY WELL, but how many sales are we losing STILL...............??????
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mobis21
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LOL, they are trying to sell magazines. It's like those rags at the grocery store checkout and all the stuff they make to print about who is sleeping with whom.
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gofast182
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HONDA AFVM wrote:
Potenza wrote:
Hondarulez wrote:
The author seems to pick examples just to prove his points - the resistance against V6, turbo 4, Crosstour, RDX, HondaJet, and Asimo.
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Yet I'm not sure what that opinion has to do with the demise of the company.
And what's his point about F1? Doesn't Honda have a history of racing and a history in F1? Yet building up and then owning a team there was a massive mistake? An "undisciplined pursuit of more" in a step towards the company's demise? Please. Just because Honda left after the Lehman crisis does not make it a mistake to have participated and invested. In fact, most think the very opposite - that leaving was a mistake.
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It has to do WITH WHO is making the judgment calls........If they would have put the Crosstour on FB and TOV as an Idea for a production, we would be selling a FULL BLOWN WAGON, not the Crosstour as it sits today, the PUBLIC would NEVER have agreed to it...........I think it is a GREAT CAR, I would own one, but if I had a LIKE Wagon to choose from, I would pick the wagon.........THE PUBLIC IS REJECTING IT!
Honda has build vehicles in the past 10 years that have MISSED the marketing class it expected.......The Element, the "Dorm room on wheels" Well, more like the Retirement home on wheels.........Most of my customers are over 60..........The Insight 1st gen.......16,000 in 7 years........WTF.........2nd gen Insight, I was SO EXCITED about this car, I wanted one, I posted on here I was going to buy one........then I sat in the back seat.........SEE YA!.......and when you sell Toyota's too.........it's an embarrassment........THE PUBLIC REJECTED IT! The CRZ.........WTF, I love it too, but I am not going to buy 3,000 a month, the PUBLIC has REJECTED IT!..........the Ridgeline, I love that too.........AGAIN, the PUBLIC HAS REJECTED IT............ZDX..........Again, (I must be NUTS) I think it is SO COOL, but the PUBLIC HAS REJECTED THAT.........
If the Accord can't make the cut, it's going to be a hard year next year..........People are losing their jobs left and right, supporting 2 and 3 family members.........they want a car that makes them feel SPECIAL.........And there are a LOT of other brands, not the quality or reliability that Honda has, but people want LOOKS, and luxury for not a lot of money..........Honda is not there......and people will PAY extra for a Honda, but not if it is ugly........SURE, the Civic is selling VERY WELL, but how many sales are we losing STILL...............??????
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I agree with almost all of what you're saying Andrew, but is it really fair to say the Ridgeline was rejected? Don't forget when the platform came out it was lavished with awards and sold many thousand per month. We have to be careful not to get caught up in over-analyzing a platform that is at or beyond the end of its cycle or comparing it to something like an F-150 because they're not the same type of truck.
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HONDA AFVM
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gofast182 wrote:
HONDA AFVM wrote:
Potenza wrote:
Hondarulez wrote:
The author seems to pick examples just to prove his points - the resistance against V6, turbo 4, Crosstour, RDX, HondaJet, and Asimo.
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Yet I'm not sure what that opinion has to do with the demise of the company.
And what's his point about F1? Doesn't Honda have a history of racing and a history in F1? Yet building up and then owning a team there was a massive mistake? An "undisciplined pursuit of more" in a step towards the company's demise? Please. Just because Honda left after the Lehman crisis does not make it a mistake to have participated and invested. In fact, most think the very opposite - that leaving was a mistake.
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It has to do WITH WHO is making the judgment calls........If they would have put the Crosstour on FB and TOV as an Idea for a production, we would be selling a FULL BLOWN WAGON, not the Crosstour as it sits today, the PUBLIC would NEVER have agreed to it...........I think it is a GREAT CAR, I would own one, but if I had a LIKE Wagon to choose from, I would pick the wagon.........THE PUBLIC IS REJECTING IT!
Honda has build vehicles in the past 10 years that have MISSED the marketing class it expected.......The Element, the "Dorm room on wheels" Well, more like the Retirement home on wheels.........Most of my customers are over 60..........The Insight 1st gen.......16,000 in 7 years........WTF.........2nd gen Insight, I was SO EXCITED about this car, I wanted one, I posted on here I was going to buy one........then I sat in the back seat.........SEE YA!.......and when you sell Toyota's too.........it's an embarrassment........THE PUBLIC REJECTED IT! The CRZ.........WTF, I love it too, but I am not going to buy 3,000 a month, the PUBLIC has REJECTED IT!..........the Ridgeline, I love that too.........AGAIN, the PUBLIC HAS REJECTED IT............ZDX..........Again, (I must be NUTS) I think it is SO COOL, but the PUBLIC HAS REJECTED THAT.........
If the Accord can't make the cut, it's going to be a hard year next year..........People are losing their jobs left and right, supporting 2 and 3 family members.........they want a car that makes them feel SPECIAL.........And there are a LOT of other brands, not the quality or reliability that Honda has, but people want LOOKS, and luxury for not a lot of money..........Honda is not there......and people will PAY extra for a Honda, but not if it is ugly........SURE, the Civic is selling VERY WELL, but how many sales are we losing STILL...............??????
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I agree with almost all of what you're saying Andrew, but is it really fair to say the Ridgeline was rejected? Don't forget when the platform came out it was lavished with awards and sold many thousand per month. We have to be careful not to get caught up in over-analyzing a platform that is at or beyond the end of its cycle or comparing it to something like an F-150 because they're not the same type of truck.
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Think about it, It doesn't have bluetooth, USB OR even a telescopic steering wheel. It's Navi is still 1st Gen......HONDA has all but abandoned it.........they don't advertise it, push it, NOTHING! I have a customer now that wants on, he has had a new one every 3 years since they came out, but he will not get a 2013 if it is the same as his 2010........He doesn't mind the look, it's the inside.......
SO, the public has rejected it. NOW, the SPORT has stirred up a lot of interest, because they saw it in some adds......and that is what they need to do. It's ALWAYS BEEN MARKETING.......ALWAYS! and Honda has been a catastrophic failure in that department for 10++ years.......
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Mr. Taggart
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notyper wrote:
I'm pretty sure that the fun of driving claim will go something like this:
"There is not another car that returns the fuel economy of the Civic/Accord/TSX/Whatever that is as fun to drive"
Of course, many of us would rather hear that "there is not a car as fun to drive as this one that get's better gas mileage."
Subtle difference, but important. Anyone want to wager on whether or not that first phrase is true or not in a year?
SC
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You left off safer for the enviornment due to lower CO2 emissions in there somewhere...
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mobis21
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HONDA AFVM wrote:
Potenza wrote:
Hondarulez wrote:
The author seems to pick examples just to prove his points - the resistance against V6, turbo 4, Crosstour, RDX, HondaJet, and Asimo.
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Yet I'm not sure what that opinion has to do with the demise of the company.
And what's his point about F1? Doesn't Honda have a history of racing and a history in F1? Yet building up and then owning a team there was a massive mistake? An "undisciplined pursuit of more" in a step towards the company's demise? Please. Just because Honda left after the Lehman crisis does not make it a mistake to have participated and invested. In fact, most think the very opposite - that leaving was a mistake.
|
It has to do WITH WHO is making the judgment calls........If they would have put the Crosstour on FB and TOV as an Idea for a production, we would be selling a FULL BLOWN WAGON, not the Crosstour as it sits today, the PUBLIC would NEVER have agreed to it...........I think it is a GREAT CAR, I would own one, but if I had a LIKE Wagon to choose from, I would pick the wagon.........THE PUBLIC IS REJECTING IT!
Honda has build vehicles in the past 10 years that have MISSED the marketing class it expected.......The Element, the "Dorm room on wheels" Well, more like the Retirement home on wheels.........Most of my customers are over 60..........The Insight 1st gen.......16,000 in 7 years........WTF.........2nd gen Insight, I was SO EXCITED about this car, I wanted one, I posted on here I was going to buy one........then I sat in the back seat.........SEE YA!.......and when you sell Toyota's too.........it's an embarrassment........THE PUBLIC REJECTED IT! The CRZ.........WTF, I love it too, but I am not going to buy 3,000 a month, the PUBLIC has REJECTED IT!..........the Ridgeline, I love that too.........AGAIN, the PUBLIC HAS REJECTED IT............ZDX..........Again, (I must be NUTS) I think it is SO COOL, but the PUBLIC HAS REJECTED THAT.........
If the Accord can't make the cut, it's going to be a hard year next year..........People are losing their jobs left and right, supporting 2 and 3 family members.........they want a car that makes them feel SPECIAL.........And there are a LOT of other brands, not the quality or reliability that Honda has, but people want LOOKS, and luxury for not a lot of money..........Honda is not there......and people will PAY extra for a Honda, but not if it is ugly........SURE, the Civic is selling VERY WELL, but how many sales are we losing STILL...............??????
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Not sure I agree with your wagon statement. Compare CrossTour sales to TSX wagon sales. Yes the TSX is a bit more expensive, but not by a lot. Personally I prefer the look of the Crosstour to the TSX Station Wagon. Only change I would make is making the Crosstour even more offroadish like the Outbacks.
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HONDA AFVM
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mobis21 wrote:
HONDA AFVM wrote:
Potenza wrote:
Hondarulez wrote:
The author seems to pick examples just to prove his points - the resistance against V6, turbo 4, Crosstour, RDX, HondaJet, and Asimo.
|
Yet I'm not sure what that opinion has to do with the demise of the company.
And what's his point about F1? Doesn't Honda have a history of racing and a history in F1? Yet building up and then owning a team there was a massive mistake? An "undisciplined pursuit of more" in a step towards the company's demise? Please. Just because Honda left after the Lehman crisis does not make it a mistake to have participated and invested. In fact, most think the very opposite - that leaving was a mistake.
|
It has to do WITH WHO is making the judgment calls........If they would have put the Crosstour on FB and TOV as an Idea for a production, we would be selling a FULL BLOWN WAGON, not the Crosstour as it sits today, the PUBLIC would NEVER have agreed to it...........I think it is a GREAT CAR, I would own one, but if I had a LIKE Wagon to choose from, I would pick the wagon.........THE PUBLIC IS REJECTING IT!
Honda has build vehicles in the past 10 years that have MISSED the marketing class it expected.......The Element, the "Dorm room on wheels" Well, more like the Retirement home on wheels.........Most of my customers are over 60..........The Insight 1st gen.......16,000 in 7 years........WTF.........2nd gen Insight, I was SO EXCITED about this car, I wanted one, I posted on here I was going to buy one........then I sat in the back seat.........SEE YA!.......and when you sell Toyota's too.........it's an embarrassment........THE PUBLIC REJECTED IT! The CRZ.........WTF, I love it too, but I am not going to buy 3,000 a month, the PUBLIC has REJECTED IT!..........the Ridgeline, I love that too.........AGAIN, the PUBLIC HAS REJECTED IT............ZDX..........Again, (I must be NUTS) I think it is SO COOL, but the PUBLIC HAS REJECTED THAT.........
If the Accord can't make the cut, it's going to be a hard year next year..........People are losing their jobs left and right, supporting 2 and 3 family members.........they want a car that makes them feel SPECIAL.........And there are a LOT of other brands, not the quality or reliability that Honda has, but people want LOOKS, and luxury for not a lot of money..........Honda is not there......and people will PAY extra for a Honda, but not if it is ugly........SURE, the Civic is selling VERY WELL, but how many sales are we losing STILL...............??????
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Not sure I agree with your wagon statement. Compare CrossTour sales to TSX wagon sales. Yes the TSX is a bit more expensive, but not by a lot. Personally I prefer the look of the Crosstour to the TSX Station Wagon. Only change I would make is making the Crosstour even more offroadish like the Outbacks.
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Your average Honda customer would welcome a standard wagon, Acura makes a wagon because other luxury brands make one. It's a great vehicle, but scale it down a bit, start it at $24,000 and loaded at $33,000 and you would see how it would out sell the Crosstour.......
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TonyEX
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HONDA AFVM wrote:
Your average Honda customer would welcome a standard wagon, Acura makes a wagon because other luxury brands make one. It's a great vehicle, but scale it down a bit, start it at $24,000 and loaded at $33,000 and you would see how it would out sell the Crosstour.......
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True, the interior of the Crosstour is not larger than the Accord/TSX. It's main advantage is that being taller, it's much easier to get in and out and the driving sight lines are a bit better than in the lower sedan.
However, at $23K you're talking Civic wagon.
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