integrator
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I agree, Andrew. The rest of the line wast just more sedans and SUV's at that point. Maybe not needed, but it might have been a relative success if they hadn't made the same mistakes on it that they made on the TL. Too large and expansive a front area, rear design mirrors front, and slab sided with same old interior. And of course, it was priced too high for this type of vehicle.
@montechester - save it for someone you can actually order around. I didn't bring it up the topic.
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TXsalesguy
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Nothing to be cautious about as far as you buying one, that is a fantastic deal. Just countering what has been brought up in other threads and perhaps not what you were meaning... that Honda is only selling the Accord in good numbers because of hefty incentives. Yes, there are incentives, but Honda as a company is not giving out $5k incentives on Accords. Yes, you can probably get $5k off the list price now, but that is a combination of a volume dealer giving up the difference in invoice and MSRP combined with the incentive that allows them to sell as such, and that $5k is not off MSRP usually, but off the addendum, after tint, wheel locks, cargo tray, etc, etc has been added at the dealer.
You never see Honda advertising rebates and don't publicly allow a dealer to advertise below invoice. They are very strict about dealers' advertising, don't like us to say "discount" or anything that makes the brand seem cheap. One of the nearest dealers to us had a big banner on their building that said "All we do is discount Hondas." Honda made them take it off the building. Honda fans should be glad, it is one of the reasons Hondas retain their value better than most. Our advertising of such a deal is pretty much limited to internet emails blasts, we can't put it on print, radio, TV, even our website.
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talon95
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montechester wrote:
People keep mentioning that the Europeans and Huyndai/Kia are, as if by magic, making sedan roof lines more coupe like with no negative consequences. This is just not so. The current crop of new 4dr "coupes" have given up rear seat headroom, ease of rear seat ingress/egress, and horizontal trunk opening depth. Try getting in or out of the back seat of those cars. I have and they suck for full sized people.
I don't expect nor want Honda to compromise those things just to get a 1-2" lower rear roof line, no matter how good it looks. If you are OK with those compromises, then there are choices out there for you, or better yet, buy a Coupe and stop complaining that Sedans don't LOOK like Coupes.
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Your suggestion to the contrary notwithstanding, I'm fully aware that a coupe-like roofline on a sedan has a few compromises. I'm not running a taxi company or a shuttle service. I want my occasional rear seat passengers to be comfortable, but that isn't the only requirement that I have for a car. As long as the rear seat passengers are comfortable that's good… it doesn't have to be the perfect experience. More and more of Honda's competitors are proving that it's possible to provide most of the benefits of a traditional sedan without forcing the owner to settle for a car with all of visual appeal of a Buick Lucerne.
And that leads to the flaw in your "stop complaining and buy a coupe" suggestion. I wouldn't dream of subjecting my rear seat passengers to having to climb past the front seats to get to the rear. For some, that would be impossible. But they could easily enter using the rear doors of say, a Sonata. I've done it several times going to lunch with a coworker who owns a Sonata and it's really not even close to the ordeal that the "sensible shoes" sedan contingent makes it out to be. I'd have thought that this fatal flaw in the "get a coupe" suggestion would be obvious to someone who seems to be so concerned about providing the ultimate experience for his rear passengers.
For the record, I'm only using the Sonata as an example. Actually, I find the Sonata's styling to be overwrought and graceless. So don't bother telling me to buy one. I find cars like the VW CC, Kia Optima and the new Ford Focus to be far more appealing.
Again, I'd prefer to get this sportier type of sedan from Honda, but these early spy shots suggest that the new Accord sedan will be yet another of Honda's safe, staid designs. I guess I'm OK with that, since Honda's complacency regarding engineering advancements and the string of poorly received new and redesigned Honda and Acura models over the past several years have allowed the competition to catch up to them and even surpass them in some respects. Competitors' reliability and resale value have improved significantly as well. All of these changes have had the result that many of Honda's traditional advantages have become less compelling. So I guess it may be time to see what else is out there. That'll get me out of your hair, which should please many of you who clearly don't like participation in these forums by people who aren't fully in line with the requisite group mindset.
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TheGandalf
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This explains why I saw those prices on an email from GP Honda, yet on their website they were not advertised as such.
The explanation also takes away some of my anxiety as I understand that a big part of the big resale value of Honda is because Honda never used to (and from what you explain still doesn't) offer big rebates. So there's no need to worry that I will see I deep in resale prices based on these emails some of us (most of us?) are getting :)
TXsalesguy wrote:
Nothing to be cautious about as far as you buying one, that is a fantastic deal. Just countering what has been brought up in other threads and perhaps not what you were meaning... that Honda is only selling the Accord in good numbers because of hefty incentives. Yes, there are incentives, but Honda as a company is not giving out $5k incentives on Accords. Yes, you can probably get $5k off the list price now, but that is a combination of a volume dealer giving up the difference in invoice and MSRP combined with the incentive that allows them to sell as such, and that $5k is not off MSRP usually, but off the addendum, after tint, wheel locks, cargo tray, etc, etc has been added at the dealer.
You never see Honda advertising rebates and don't publicly allow a dealer to advertise below invoice. They are very strict about dealers' advertising, don't like us to say "discount" or anything that makes the brand seem cheap. One of the nearest dealers to us had a big banner on their building that said "All we do is discount Hondas." Honda made them take it off the building. Honda fans should be glad, it is one of the reasons Hondas retain their value better than most. Our advertising of such a deal is pretty much limited to internet emails blasts, we can't put it on print, radio, TV, even our website.
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TXsalesguy
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TheGandalf wrote:
This explains why I saw those prices on an email from GP Honda, yet on their website they were not advertised as such.
The explanation also takes away some of my anxiety as I understand that a big part of the big resale value of Honda is because Honda never used to (and from what you explain still doesn't) offer big rebates. So there's no need to worry that I will see I deep in resale prices based on these emails some of us (most of us?) are getting :)
TXsalesguy wrote:
Nothing to be cautious about as far as you buying one, that is a fantastic deal. Just countering what has been brought up in other threads and perhaps not what you were meaning... that Honda is only selling the Accord in good numbers because of hefty incentives. Yes, there are incentives, but Honda as a company is not giving out $5k incentives on Accords. Yes, you can probably get $5k off the list price now, but that is a combination of a volume dealer giving up the difference in invoice and MSRP combined with the incentive that allows them to sell as such, and that $5k is not off MSRP usually, but off the addendum, after tint, wheel locks, cargo tray, etc, etc has been added at the dealer.
You never see Honda advertising rebates and don't publicly allow a dealer to advertise below invoice. They are very strict about dealers' advertising, don't like us to say "discount" or anything that makes the brand seem cheap. One of the nearest dealers to us had a big banner on their building that said "All we do is discount Hondas." Honda made them take it off the building. Honda fans should be glad, it is one of the reasons Hondas retain their value better than most. Our advertising of such a deal is pretty much limited to internet emails blasts, we can't put it on print, radio, TV, even our website.
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Glad to be of help and glad you found my last post, thought I had hit the "quote" button so the previous dialogue would help my post find context. Obviously, I messed up on that!
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ClementZ
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talon95 wrote:
montechester wrote:
People keep mentioning that the Europeans and Huyndai/Kia are, as if by magic, making sedan roof lines more coupe like with no negative consequences. This is just not so. The current crop of new 4dr "coupes" have given up rear seat headroom, ease of rear seat ingress/egress, and horizontal trunk opening depth. Try getting in or out of the back seat of those cars. I have and they suck for full sized people.
I don't expect nor want Honda to compromise those things just to get a 1-2" lower rear roof line, no matter how good it looks. If you are OK with those compromises, then there are choices out there for you, or better yet, buy a Coupe and stop complaining that Sedans don't LOOK like Coupes.
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Your suggestion to the contrary notwithstanding, I'm fully aware that a coupe-like roofline on a sedan has a few compromises. I'm not running a taxi company or a shuttle service. I want my occasional rear seat passengers to be comfortable, but that isn't the only requirement that I have for a car. As long as the rear seat passengers are comfortable that's good… it doesn't have to be the perfect experience. More and more of Honda's competitors are proving that it's possible to provide most of the benefits of a traditional sedan without forcing the owner to settle for a car with all of visual appeal of a Buick Lucerne.
And that leads to the flaw in your "stop complaining and buy a coupe" suggestion. I wouldn't dream of subjecting my rear seat passengers to having to climb past the front seats to get to the rear. For some, that would be impossible. But they could easily enter using the rear doors of say, a Sonata. I've done it several times going to lunch with a coworker who owns a Sonata and it's really not even close to the ordeal that the "sensible shoes" sedan contingent makes it out to be. I'd have thought that this fatal flaw in the "get a coupe" suggestion would be obvious to someone who seems to be so concerned about providing the ultimate experience for his rear passengers.
For the record, I'm only using the Sonata as an example. Actually, I find the Sonata's styling to be overwrought and graceless. So don't bother telling me to buy one. I find cars like the VW CC, Kia Optima and the new Ford Focus to be far more appealing.
Again, I'd prefer to get this sportier type of sedan from Honda, but these early spy shots suggest that the new Accord sedan will be yet another of Honda's safe, staid designs. I guess I'm OK with that, since Honda's complacency regarding engineering advancements and the string of poorly received new and redesigned Honda and Acura models over the past several years have allowed the competition to catch up to them and even surpass them in some respects. Competitors' reliability and resale value have improved significantly as well. All of these changes have had the result that many of Honda's traditional advantages have become less compelling. So I guess it may be time to see what else is out there. That'll get me out of your hair, which should please many of you who clearly don't like participation in these forums by people who aren't fully in line with the requisite group mindset.
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But how the hell can you tell?
All you see is the roof, which, in terms of visibility, is very good, and much better than the Sonata. I haven't been in a CC or an Optima, so I can't compare to those.
Honda has no reason to change the roof, seeing as there's nothing wrong with it.
If the rest of the car however is "stoic" and conservative, then of course, your point will have been proven.
But until the rest of the car is revealed, please don't accuse it of such things.
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montechester
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You are hilarious, sad, but hilarious. How did I "order you around"? I just said I wasn't going to play your argumentative, pissing match, game. Looking at your many other posts, I'd have to say this is a trend for you. You like playing Devils Advocate or just being obstinate and contrary.
If that's fun for you, have at it, but don't expect everyone to play with you. LOL
integrator wrote:
@montechester - save it for someone you can actually order around. I didn't bring it up the topic.
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talon95
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"new Ford Focus to be far more appealing"
Make that Fusion… too many cars with similar names… :)
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talon95
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ClementZ wrote:But how the hell can you tell?All you see is the roof, which, in terms of visibility, is very good, and much better than the Sonata. I haven't been in a CC or an Optima, so I can't compare to those.
Honda has no reason to change the roof, seeing as there's nothing wrong with it.If the rest of the car however is "stoic" and conservative, then of course, your point will have been proven. But until the rest of the car is revealed, please don't accuse it of such things. |
This is what I said:
| these early spy shots suggest that the new Accord sedan will be yet another of Honda's safe, staid designs |
Note the highlighted word "suggest". This means that based on what's currently known, I expect it to be a safe, staid design (not "stoic", which has a different connotation). IMO, the use of the recycled roofline that's been done to death on the Accord, Acuras, Subarus, Nissans, etc., isn't a promising start for a car that Honda claims is going to have a "sportier appearance". They've made similar statements about other designs in recent years and the resulting final products were so dull that they could eliminate the need for Ambien. Combined with Honda's recent record, such as the "been there, seen it" RLX and "meh" ILX, I feel that the likelihood of the Accord's styling being better than safe and staid is slim.
By saying I suggest this, I'm saying that it's my opinion of the most likely outcome. I'm not representing it as a fact or accusation. I could be completely wrong, though I'd be shocked if I was… if so, I'd be thrilled, because I'd be all over it and would have no problem apologizing for my lack of faith. Anyway, it's my opinion and I know no more than anyone else, so feel free to disagree and come to your own conclusion.
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE let it look like Neal's 3.5 version... it even makes the rehashed roofline look fresh!!! I'll take back everything I said! I'll never have been so happy to be wrong!
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