picard
 |
|
what is the big deal with BMW cars?
why are people obsessed about buying one? I often see young hot headed guys want to buy a BMW when they can't afford to pay a mortgage. WTF ? Asian cars still beat any German brands in reliability.
|
TonyEX
|
|
picard wrote:
what is the big deal with BMW cars?
why are people obsessed about buying one? I often see young hot headed guys want to buy a BMW when they can't afford to pay a mortgage. WTF ? Asian cars still beat any German brands in reliability.
|
Brilliant Marketing.
Excellent drive trains to back it up.
Pretty nice designs.
|
330R
|
|
Maybe reliability isn't as important to everyone as branding, style, power, perception.. oh and vehicle dynamics is in there somewhere, too.
Even the least reliable car sold today is a very reliable car.
|
Jovian8
|
|
Style ?? BMW's are among the ugliest .. they dont compare to Audi.
The most important reason for buying a BMW is 'brand snobbery' ... ok I guess you could call that perception.
Oh... and for a lot of people BMW has a REVERSE perception where the driver is perceived negatively.
Vehicle dynamics? It may be good... but I doubt most BMW drivers care.
I laugh when I read this survey where 80% of BMW 1-series drivers thought their own car was front-drive!
http://www.worldcarfans.com/110032225250/80-percent-of-bmw-1-series-drivers-think-the-car-is-a-front-wheel
In a conference call with reporters and analysts, BMW CEO Norbert Reithofer revealed that 80 percent of BMW 1-Series drivers believed they were driving a front-wheel drive car.
|
330R
|
|
Notice I said vehicle dynamics is in there somewhere
;)
BMW has enthusiasts like Honda and others, and they also have more mainstream owners who are less "car people" than they are people who need or want a car and gravitate to the brand based on their needs and wants. BMW is less a necessity brand and more an aspirational brand. Some folks don't even know why they aspire to own one, perhaps.
|
Grace141
|
|
I think the answer here depends on your age. The two BMW cars that impressed me at first were:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_New_Class
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_E9
The old-school BMWs were actually very reliable with proper maintenance. And the direct nature of their steering, handling, and balanced power made them neat little cars. I've driven one of each plus an E12 and an E36 and, short of an old Porsche, found them to be as close to holding a tie rod in each hand as any car. Numbers-wise, the 2002 was about as close to a sedan version of the Datsun Z-car as you could get so no surprise Datsun produced the 810.
I like the current 3-series but I know fully the money spent is more for luxuries than purely mechanical driving machinery doo-dads. I keep thinking I should take a look at a Mini.
|
Jovian8
|
|
Sorry 330R if that sounded harsh ..I didnt mean to rag on you personally.. judging from your handle.. you are probably a BMW owner.
I was a huge BMW fan in the distant past .. loved the 2002tii!
I guess I am just disappointed BMW (like Honda) is building too many bloated cars. In fact --one of their models looks like Crosstour.
I liked the minimalist BMW;s of the past which is where a lot of their 'image' originated.
|
330R
|
|
|
I guess I can count on one hand the number of times I distinctly wanted a BMW. Well, maybe two hands if you count separately some of the mintiest E30 M3s I've seen. All I know is, the last Bimmer I drove was a black 335i with the power retractable hard top (doesn't really matter to me but still cool to witness in action) and a 6MT. Just the exhaust growl and drone post startup gave me a semi. A very tight handling, direct, solid car.
|
330R
|
|
Jovian8 wrote:
Sorry 330R if that sounded harsh ..I didnt mean to rag on you personally.. judging from your handle.. you are probably a BMW owner. |
Naw, I didn't take it badly. My screen name = 2000 Integra Type-R #00-0330 :)
It's also a play on the 130R corner at Suzuka, not far from where my Teg was born.
Jovian8 wrote:
I guess I am just disappointed BMW (like Honda) is building too many bloated cars.
|
Amen.
|
ezshift5
|
|
...I'll go along with 'excellent drive trains'........as after a test drive of a 323 back in 1999, I was (almost) hooked.
I just couldn't do it. After taking a second out on an oceanfront condo in Oregon.....................................I confessed to the sales guy (he was a peach): I just can't do it.
But that doesn't mean the clutch and 6M BMW interface doesn't give me an erection................
I settled for a Gen7 6M Honda coupe. I'm not sorry. Plus my bank account is propering.......
ez
|
Ultima
|
|
The only BMW worth owning IMO is the E46 M3, again, IMO this was the pinnacle in the 3-series design. Only thing stopping me from owning one was BMW's reliability and maintenance cost.
Other than that, I don't really care for them at all.
|
HONDA AFVM
|
|
TonyE wrote:
picard wrote:
what is the big deal with BMW cars?
why are people obsessed about buying one? I often see young hot headed guys want to buy a BMW when they can't afford to pay a mortgage. WTF ? Asian cars still beat any German brands in reliability.
|
Brilliant Marketing.
Excellent drive trains to back it up.
Pretty nice designs.
|
We have a 2009 X5, I am not impressed at all, it's heavy feeling and not that comfortable.......compared to a Pilot, it's not as nice...... it's a gas PIG and it takes High Test fuel......fuck that.....over rated......
|
atomiclightbulb
|
|
Why are people obsessed with BMW cars?
Where the sedans, coupes, and convertibles are concerned, I think it's the driving dynamics. BMW generally makes superb engines and a very well balanced chassis.
Looking at the crossovers though, its just the prestige of the brand. Everyone I know who either owns or has driven a BMW CUV is not very impressed with them once they compare it to something from another luxury carmaker.
I don't think BMW wins many points on styling. Frankly, their exteriors and interiors are stale compared to Audi.
Going forward, I see BMW as less desirable. The turbo-4 engines and electric power steering have sapped the character of BMW somewhat.
|
cksi1372
|
|
I always thought many Honda/Acura fans would be fans of BMW's, as well...great engine builders. If there was ever a way to get their cultures to line up, I think a H/A-BMW combo would be amazing.
Anyway, I've never been "obsessed" with BMW, but fell somewhat in "lust" for one after I drove an E36 M3 in college. The thing was just a blast to drive. Ever since then I wanted one, but was always too cheap to pull the trigger and quite honestly, Honda/Acura always had something that filled the void in a very satisfying way...I'm thinking of you 99 Si, 03 RSX-S, and 08 Si.
Not so much anymore, especially Acura, and in late 2010 I pulled the trigger on a new 335i (N55). Great financing, good pricing, and again, nothing in Acura's lineup that caught my eye in the least, so I decided to go for it. Yes, IMO, they are still a little overpriced, but I do think the materials are of better quality overall. They are also a blast to drive, although not E36 M3 so, and everything works very well together, dynamics-wise.
That said, I'd dump the crappy run-flats (I will be doing that), wish for a real LSD, and will be more concerned about reliability if I keep after warranty expires. I also agree, after visiting many BMW boards, there are many "kiddies" (hell, adults too for that matter) who are arrogant, hot-headed, and extremely stupid for trying to shoe-horn themselves into a BMW when they can't even afford rent.
|
TonyEX
|
|
HONDA AFVM wrote:
TonyE wrote:
picard wrote:
what is the big deal with BMW cars?
why are people obsessed about buying one? I often see young hot headed guys want to buy a BMW when they can't afford to pay a mortgage. WTF ? Asian cars still beat any German brands in reliability.
|
Brilliant Marketing.
Excellent drive trains to back it up.
Pretty nice designs.
|
We have a 2009 X5, I am not impressed at all, it's heavy feeling and not that comfortable.......compared to a Pilot, it's not as nice...... it's a gas PIG and it takes High Test fuel......fuck that.....over rated......
|
I was referred to the cars, not the SUVs.... I honestly don't understand why anyone would buy a BMW SUV when their own station wagons are as large inside, lighter and smaller in the outside and possess very good handling dynamics.
|
Powered by Honda
|
|
drive one...
or better yet...
take one apart!
I did an Audi door glass replacment the other day took 3 hours. On a civic its a 15min job.
I was impressed with the build int he door all to make it solid and quiet. fucking Audi...that was hell doing that job.
|
Powered by Honda
|
|
this and E92 M3 are the greatest things to drive ever! fun fun fun
|
TonyEX
|
|
atomiclightbulb wrote:
Why are people obsessed with BMW cars?
Where the sedans, coupes, and convertibles are concerned, I think it's the driving dynamics. BMW generally makes superb engines and a very well balanced chassis.
Looking at the crossovers though, its just the prestige of the brand. Everyone I know who either owns or has driven a BMW CUV is not very impressed with them once they compare it to something from another luxury carmaker.
I don't think BMW wins many points on styling. Frankly, their exteriors and interiors are stale compared to Audi.
Going forward, I see BMW as less desirable. The turbo-4 engines and electric power steering have sapped the character of BMW somewhat.
|
I disagree. I think Audi's are over styled and will quickly age. BMWs, OTOH, are constrained, elegant and exude speed. The tight lines around the front fenders, the way the front all comes together and the way they've managed to do the headlights since the very late 70s is superb. With the exception of the Bangle bussle they have not done many mistakes. OK, I'm no fan of the Z3... But the old 630CSI.. aaah.. that was a car!
Interior wise.. well, they are weird, enigmatic and too serious.
Real Story....
So there we were, a few years ago, at the LA Auto Show.
I found myself sitting in the driver's seat of a BMW 5 series, my wife standing outside to my left and some other woman, mid 40s, sitting on the passenger's seat.
Looking at the dash, a sea of black, with a multitude of buttons identified by some teutonic symbols whose mesianic meanings were beyond my mere mortal understanding (*) I commented to my wife that it seemed like a "fine vehicle to invade Poland.... You know? The perfect Blitzkrieg ride, so serious and somber in its demeanor".
Oooops! I guess the woman to my right heard me (I tend not to mince my words...) so that when I turned my head back forward I sensed from the corner of my right eye the Witch of the West about to turn me into a brightly colored organ monkey (with matching hat).. Eventually, as she regained some composure over herself she blurted out something about owning a BMW... I just cut her off, smiled and told her it just looked too serious to me, a bit too complicated.
And then, I got the hell out of there before I was given a life long taste for a banana diet... :-)
So there... BMW interiors still look too serious and complicated for me.
(*) I mean, if I have to read the owner's manual to use something in a car, I won't use it... have you noticed how current Hondas are including a Help Section in their NAVI to tell how to use voice recognition? Bluetooth? I use the latter because it's handy.. voice never.
Similarly if I had a Bimmer, I think I'd not ever get to use have of their buttons/features.. Too complicated.
|
TonyEX
|
|
|
Did you consider a TL MT6 SH-AWD?
|
BachelorFrog
|
|
Powered by Honda wrote:
this and E92 M3 are the greatest things to drive ever! fun fun fun
|
You have to drive the E46, its the best M yet.
|
FiSH-Chan
|
|
The E46 happens to be my favorite. Whenever the name BMW is mentioned the first thing pop into my mind is that.
The newer ones I don't really take interest, espceially the design. The Audis also are a problem for me, I have seen several and I can never make out which is which they look look the same from the front.
|
cksi1372
|
|
TonyE wrote:
Did you consider a TL MT6 SH-AWD?
|
I did, but just do not like the looks of the Gen 4 TL. The update made it look better, but still not enough for me. I'm sure the TL is a pretty good driver, but if I'm dropping that kind of money on a car, I sure as hell better like the looks and the BMW looks better to ME, especially in M-Sport guise. The only mistake was not going to Germany to pick it up and there probably won't be another chance for that unless I hit the lotto for an M6...would rather save and retire early at this point. Damn, I must be getting old. :)
|
CivicB18
|
|
I like BMW for the most part because they seem to strive to set the standard and/or benchmark in terms the total package. They delivered on paper yet deliver in the real world as well. A lot of other brands simply deliver on one end.
My younger brother has a 2008 BMW 335i 6MT sedan and my cousin has a 2011 BMW 135i ///M Sport convertible. The Twin Power Turbo I6/7DCT in the 135i is probably one of the best drivetrains overall that I've ever sampled. The engine is super refined, efficient, doclie, tractable, produces torque everywhere and the transmission is never in the wrong gear. Sport mode just takes those attributes and further amplifies them. You can be in 7th gear on the highway and overtake someone with ease without having to drop a gear. The torque is always right there as you don't have to wait for the power to come.
On the downside, BMW of late has been overloading some of their core products with too much luxury as the 5 Series I drove was as fun to drive as a Buick. It was a 2012 528i with the new N20 turbo 4 which pulled nicely. It wasnt a sport model however.
~Patrick
|
FinalVibes1
|
|
BMW is wonderful. I'm a huge Honda fan, but truthfully, a big reason why is because I cannot afford a BMW. Honda (used to be) the next best thing.
I've owned Acuras before going the BMW route. Both my Acuras were excellent and very reliable. My BMW is expensive to maintain (for parts), expensive to drive (insurance and gas), and the interior is cheap and falling apart. Electronics have many unexplained glitches.
But each time I step on the gas, ALL IS FORGIVEN, and my drive always ends with a smile. (knock on wood, don't break down!)
|
Grace141
|
|
When the E46 was first introduced we happened to spend a week at a resort in Colorado which hosted a BMW ride-and-drive event. Driving the then new car on mountain roads in the sunshine. It hit all of the buttons for driving fun. A few years before my wife and I visited our local dealer to buy a new sedan but looking through the options list and what you get for the base price just didn't square up with us after owning Hondas. You can't be a cheapskate like me and purchase a new BMW.
One weird opinion about Audis, I just don't think car fans my age are that interested in the A4 and A6 cars. Perhaps it's too many memories of the 4000, the GT or maybe even the Fox but none of the cars made by Audi interest me in any way at all. A friend drives a Q7 TDi which she loves and I think the Q5 looks pretty smart. For me, Audi's Le Mans efforts over the past 12-some years have been very impressive but I'd never buy one of their road cars.
|
Tigerriot
|
|
I'm not a person who is interested in "status symbols" or "being seen in a fancy car", so the name BMW doesn't mean anything to me in that way.
However, based purely on my opinion of the styling and feel of driving one, there is no other brand I find more appealing. None.
Something about the design of their cars just wows me. I love the designs, the stance, the presence their cars evoke. They just look solid on the road.
Because of their reliability I will likely never own one, and I'm just not a person who desires to be identified as "a luxury car driver", so that keeps me away from them as well. But I will always admire them from afar.
|
tennis32828
|
|
I have owned 3 hondas/Acuras and 2 bmws. There BMWs have been reliable (knock on wood) and solid. One thing that does stands out are the suspensions. Perfectly tuned for luxury and sportiness.
I always felt that BMWs cars are more like what an upscale Honda should be.
|
TonyEX
|
|
cksi1372 wrote:
TonyE wrote:
Did you consider a TL MT6 SH-AWD?
|
I did, but just do not like the looks of the Gen 4 TL. The update made it look better, but still not enough for me. I'm sure the TL is a pretty good driver, but if I'm dropping that kind of money on a car, I sure as hell better like the looks and the BMW looks better to ME, especially in M-Sport guise. The only mistake was not going to Germany to pick it up and there probably won't be another chance for that unless I hit the lotto for an M6...would rather save and retire early at this point. Damn, I must be getting old. :)
|
I understand that. This TL Gen is one we're bypassing as well, and we've had all previous gens... (Vigor, 3.2TL, 99TL and 04TL). It's kind of sad because it really is a great driver and the interior is quite good, but the exterior is the deal breaker.
|
MarkR
|
|
tennis32828 wrote:
I have owned 3 hondas/Acuras and 2 bmws. There BMWs have been reliable (knock on wood) and solid. One thing that does stands out are the suspensions. Perfectly tuned for luxury and sportiness.
I always felt that BMWs cars are more like what an upscale Honda should be.
|
Yes, all modern cars are good cars. They last well for 5-6-7years, I do not know if they brake badly after 200k miles but seems like many of todays metropolitan citizens drive so little that during the first 7-8years they last well, ALL cars, including "those german".
Right or wrong, but seems like todays high income people tend to surround themselves around bigger cities. If you work for Facebook and your wife attends Standford and you live in Palo Alto, won't even a BMW last you well for 7years :) ?
Sorry to say but we in the western world are so spoiled nowadays that I think "perceived quality" is more important for the buying decision.... and Honda is not up there with the best at the moment.
|
MarkR
|
|
MarkR wrote:
tennis32828 wrote:
I have owned 3 hondas/Acuras and 2 bmws. There BMWs have been reliable (knock on wood) and solid. One thing that does stands out are the suspensions. Perfectly tuned for luxury and sportiness.
I always felt that BMWs cars are more like what an upscale Honda should be.
|
Yes, all modern cars are good cars. They last well for 5-6-7years, I do not know if they brake badly after 200k miles but seems like many of todays metropolitan citizens drive so little that during the first 7-8years they last well, ALL cars, including "those german".
Right or wrong, but seems like todays high income people tend to surround themselves around bigger cities. If you work for Facebook and your wife attends Standford and you live in Palo Alto, won't even a BMW last you well for 7years :) ?
Sorry to say but we in the western world are so spoiled nowadays that I think "perceived quality" is more important for the buying decision.... and Honda is not up there with the best at the moment.
|
Oh yes, forgot, in my "porfolio" since 1998 there have been Ford, BMW,Audi,Honda and they are all good cars. Not a single problem with them, I recommend them all to friends and family, well I have recommneded Honda the most actually, since both my brother and Dad drives one today.
|
|
|
| |
![[home]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/home.gif){kind=small}
![[rumors and news]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/rumors.gif){kind=small}
![[model release matrix]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/newmodelreleasematrix.gif){kind=small}
![[dealer network]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/dealernet.gif){kind=small}
![[desktop calendar]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/calendar.gif){kind=small}
![[exhaust notes]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/exhaust.gif){kind=small}
![[tov forums]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/forums.gif){kind=small}
![[links]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/links.gif){kind=small}
![[search]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/search.gif){kind=small}
![[sponsors]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/sponsors.gif){kind=small}
![[garage]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/garage.gif){kind=small}
![[login]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/login.gif){kind=small}
