I've got no problems with moms; even have one myself.
But damn.... too much estrogen at Honda. Too much. Even the horny ninja was a chick. The guy walking out to the black Odyssey that transformed into a metal video - a whipped girly-man.
Honda, find your mojo, find your balls, find your center, find your soul.
I think what has happened is that all the guys have gone on to buy cars like the BR-Z and BMWs and so forth. So the only market left to tap on is the moms market. So the only cars to make are for moms. Therefore, this sort of thing is necessary for the marketing. I mean, isn't it true that Honda is the only manufacturer to turn a profit since the credit crunch ? Logical, isn't it ?
For instance, my next Honda will be for the family. But then, if I want to buy a Honda version of a Toyota, I am even thinking (blasphemy !!) maybe I should get a Toyota instead. Surely no-one can do a Toyota like Toyota themselves can ? But then I remember the totally hilarious slogan we had not so long ago - Toyota - Moving forward EVEN WHEN YOU DON'T WANT TO. Crap, am I spoilt for choice nowadays ! :P
For instance, my next Honda will be for the family. But then, if I want to buy a Honda version of a Toyota, I am even thinking (blasphemy !!) maybe I should get a Toyota instead. Surely no-one can do a Toyota like Toyota themselves can ? But then I remember the totally hilarious slogan we had not so long ago - Toyota - Moving forward EVEN WHEN YOU DON'T WANT TO. Crap, am I spoilt for choice nowadays ! :P
Who has tricked you into that?
You'll have to think for yourself. Don't be a sheeple.
Who would buy a Toyoata or Hyundai? That don't make no sense.
LOL ! I guess you didn't catch my hidden joke/poke at Honda. That I think Honda has been dumbing their cars so much that they are in danger of becoming as boring as Toyotas.
But seriously, don't be misled yourself about how pure Honda is. For a fact I was told by some ex-Honda product planners that Honda used to want to emulate Toyotas. "Can't beat them, join them" was the approach they went. Thus witness the dubious flirtation with biege colour interiors (asian 7G Civic, 1G City pre-MMC), fake (puke-ish) wood trims (asian Accords) and chrome trimings (Civic, City and Accord) all around. Of course I can't say for the USDM versions as I am not familiar with them.
All taken from the 'leader', the all time undefeated champion in JDM-land (at that time), the Toyota Corolla. Fortunately, they learned their lesson in time for the Gen 8 Civic and Gen 7 Accord. And fortunately they did not go this way with the Fit/Jazz. I guess all is not lost ! LOL !!!
WongKN wrote: But seriously, don't be misled yourself about how pure Honda is. For a fact I was told by some ex-Honda product planners that Honda used to want to emulate Toyotas. "Can't beat them, join them" was the approach they went. Thus witness the dubious flirtation with biege colour interiors (asian 7G Civic, 1G City pre-MMC), fake (puke-ish) wood trims (asian Accords) and chrome trimings (Civic, City and Accord) all around. Of course I can't say for the USDM versions as I am not familiar with them.
Agreed, some previous gen seem trying too hard. Although I don't have a problem with the chrome trimmings as long as it isn't overdone, which on the City isn't. Civic has a bit more but not too distracting, and the Accord always had chrome trims everywhere anyway as far as I remember since the first gen....
Woman make OVER 80% of the car buying choices in America...........So I think Honda is heading in the right direction.........can they focus a BIT more on us, the mad men, sure, but as of now, it's like a CEO and a Private Jet.......it's looked down upon for the most part.
Well, perhaps not moms strictly but over here, there are a lot of considerations for the 'other half' as well as 'the rest of the family' for the buying decision for the main car. As in for each family, there is usually only enough budget for -one- main car and for obvious reasons, that should be the best car the family can afford, and the safest, and usually an automatic transmission so the wife can drive it if necessary, and nowadays often also an SUV. Thus I have never really questioned the decision made to go for the mass market. I just think that Honda is in for a lot of trouble because they aim for the mass market. It is a corporate decision they make and I am not saying it is right or wrong - it is right for them since they decided to adopt it but I just pity them because along with the mass market comes the obsession with EPA numbers, and the reliance on mainstream media and all sorts of other stuff that I think Honda might not really be ready for. But I suppose for the sake of a continued healthy existence they have to do it. The decision to drop the enthusiast along the way is what I do not think highly of. But again that is a decision Honda has made and it is their decision so I just live around it. I still remember a couple of years ago, complaining about how there is no more truly sporty models from Honda to a local (now ex) Honda product planner and he looked at me with a little bit of shame and said "Mr Wong, I am afraid to have to tell you that I have seen the product plan for ASEAN for the next five years and THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO SPORTS OR SPORTY MODELS IN THE LINE-UP !".
I think it is like I was writing on the other thread, one just have to respect the decision Honda has made and then take a hard look at oneself and decide honestly what next to do when changing the car. There is no need to change manufacturer due to spite at Honda or anything. Just change to what takes one's fancy. Again, although it was written mostly in jest, I really do think if Honda is going to continue Toyota-rizing their models, I might as well get a Toyota. Though of course, the current Hondas are still way better than a Toyota appliance. Most Toyotas at least.
Woman make OVER 80% of the car buying choices in America...........So I think Honda is heading in the right direction.........can they focus a BIT more on us, the mad men, sure, but as of now, it's like a CEO and a Private Jet.......it's looked down upon for the most part.
No, women buy 52% of the cars in the US. About on par with their percentage of the population.
There is some questionable market research that says they "influence" 80-90% of car buying decisions (I saw one that said 95%), but that's pretty easy to debunk. For example, between 40 and 45% of all americans over the age of 18 are single. About half those singles are men. It is highly unlikely that single men are going to be noticeably influenced by a woman in their car purchase decision, with the possible exception of considering how a certain purchase might help them with the opposite sex.
For the 55-60% of Americans who are not single, it is certainly reasonable to assume that both halves influence the purchase decision.
For the 20% or so of Americans who are single women, I would argue that far more of those women are likely to consult a man about a car purchase than the other way around.
So, it would be perfectly reasonable to say:
1 - In the US, men and women each purchase around half the cars (commensurate with their population shares).
2 - In addition to making their own purchase decisions, the existence of couples means that men and women would each influence an additional 20-25% of decisions.
3 - Any remaining influence level would be determined by how singles consult with members of the opposite sex. I would argue this would mean more influence for men.
So, while it would be reasonable to say that women influence 70-80% of all car purchase decisions, it would be equally reasonable to say that men influence just as large a percentage, if not somewhat more. And none of this takes into account who the dominant automotive decision maker is in couples' relationships. I would argue that more often than not, it is still the man.
notyper wrote: Statistics can be twisted if you aren't careful
SC
Statistics, applied foolishly, can be used to justify just about any decision, regardless of merit. One would think Honda learned their less after designing the 2002 Civic for "Jennifer" or after focus groups convinced them the power plenum was a good idea. But here we are.
The sad thing is, I think the people in leadership positions at Honda don't appreciate what they had. There are plenty of companies who would KILL to have a deep following of loyal and passionate fans. Fans that help you sell product without having to blow metric tons of money on marketing. Fans that educate others on the virtues and ideals of your company. I can tell you right now Hyundai would love to have the fervent enthusiast following that Honda had.
Yet now Honda has short-sightedly decided to ignore a large segment of true fans of the brand. Then they'll wonder why their fortunes are not as bright as in the past.
The fact that the NSX is coming means that there is at least some recognition that the performance enthusiast is important to Honda. I just wonder if there will be anything else other than the NSX in the foreseeable future.
Watching that video, I can't imagine what an enthusiasts summit would look like. I certainly wouldn't want to be the Honda PR person standing in front of that angry mob.
JMU R1 wrote: Watching that video, I can't imagine what an enthusiasts summit would look like. I certainly wouldn't want to be the Honda PR person standing in front of that angry mob.
To have such a summit, one would need enthusiast vehicles to which Honda has just ONE (if you considered an Si one). In my book, they have zero.
Have you guys seen the comments about Honda in general at other forums? Im not talkikg about the usual domestic redneck anti-import hicks that post negative comments, I mean average Joes who used to own Hondas. The general comments seems to be how Honda has lost its ways and how ugly Acuras are.
Ironic, Toyota group has (regardless of your opinion of it): LFA, IS-F, FRS, rumored Supra replacement, GS-F in the pipeline....how times have change.
JMU R1 wrote: The sad thing is, I think the people in leadership positions at Honda don't appreciate what they had. There are plenty of companies who would KILL to have a deep following of loyal and passionate fans. Fans that help you sell product without having to blow metric tons of money on marketing. Fans that educate others on the virtues and ideals of your company. I can tell you right now Hyundai would love to have the fervent enthusiast following that Honda had.
Yet now Honda has short-sightedly decided to ignore a large segment of true fans of the brand. Then they'll wonder why their fortunes are not as bright as in the past.
It continues to be discouraging, troubling, and really frustrating! That we see this, and the people actually running the company can not/do not/will not/wish not. Honestly it's akin to neglect. We all know Honda is about the worst at marketing. So making bad commercials that feature the product for maybe 7-8 seconds, taking woeful, unflattering stock photos, failing social media in hilarious fashion.. these things are not a crime. Throwing away without a care, with apparent reckless abandon and willful negligence, throngs of your company's hard-earned and devoted customers is attempted suicide in business. If not that, then a sign of a serious drug problem. (Hmm....) If Honda was one person, it would be like moving away from your family in the middle of the night and setting up residence in a shack in the mountains, or selling all your worldly possessions on eBay. Or maybe not, but I think the jist is there somewhere.
When Honda loses its specialness, what will separate it from its competitors? Fuel economy? I doubt it. Not at the rate things are going. Too much competition on that front. Driving feel? Will depend on how they continue to soften the vehicles for the masses they're chasing. Price? Incentives will have to increase further still. That, or Honda will have to stop being so damn profit hungry at the cost of their reputation, and stop being so stingy on materials and features.
Honda needs to have influencers in households. Their crappy advertising isn't going to do it. The mass market appliance drivers will be swayed by something other than emotion or enthusiasm. It won't be from driving sensations. It will be price, styling, feature content, fuel economy. When the prospects are too close to call, it will come down to dealer proximity, vehicle availability, sales staff (watch out Honda, you don't score so well there). Honda needs to have people - some number of actual current new car owners - who can talk up the company, who aren't on their payroll. They need product that is worthy of and instills enthusiasm in their brand.
I'm glad mom and sis have their Hondas. What about dad and bro? Um, dad and bro with a pulse?
Don't belittle women.. many of them love driving fast cars.
My sister who's sticking to her 05 RSX-S.. she just updated her tires (some kind of Potenza) and she's loving it.
My wife who loves driving cars with manuals and bemoans that she can't get a Civic EX with a stick... I guess I need to call the insurance company and figure out how much more will the insurance on the Si is....
And, there's nothing wrong with an Odyssey when you put the correct tires on it. I think the Sienna needs a new suspension before it can even start to exceed the limits of its OEM tires.
TonyE wrote: Don't belittle women.. many of them love driving fast cars.
My sister who's sticking to her 05 RSX-S.. she just updated her tires (some kind of Potenza) and she's loving it.
My wife who loves driving cars with manuals and bemoans that she can't get a Civic EX with a stick... I guess I need to call the insurance company and figure out how much more will the insurance on the Si is....
And, there's nothing wrong with an Odyssey when you put the correct tires on it. I think the Sienna needs a new suspension before it can even start to exceed the limits of its OEM tires.
Where is anyone belittling women?
Too bad your wife missed the summit. Doesn't she work for Honda?
A77 wrote: As I have said before Tony you can by an EX with a stick in Canada and very well priced now. just obv not if you want to finance or lease it.
The insurance quote for the Si is not much more than the EX.
I got a feeling that soon we may have an Si sedan. I want it in red, but I think she wants is blue... but since the TSX is blue I may get my way... for once. ;-)
TonyE wrote: Don't belittle women.. many of them love driving fast cars.
My sister who's sticking to her 05 RSX-S.. she just updated her tires (some kind of Potenza) and she's loving it.
My wife who loves driving cars with manuals and bemoans that she can't get a Civic EX with a stick... I guess I need to call the insurance company and figure out how much more will the insurance on the Si is....
And, there's nothing wrong with an Odyssey when you put the correct tires on it. I think the Sienna needs a new suspension before it can even start to exceed the limits of its OEM tires.
Where is anyone belittling women?
Too bad your wife missed the summit. Doesn't she work for Honda?
Aaahh.... you can pick on me but my wife is off limits... Capisce?
Anyhow, she does real work. And she can out drive many of you.
BTW... Just got off the phone... Insurance for the 4 door Si surprisingly reasonable. So I think she's changing the order to get the Si instead of the EX. So you better watch out. She'll be driving it and I think she can spank many of you guys.
I told her to make it red.... I hope she makes it in red... we'd had a few fun cars in red: 89 CRX Si, 90 Civic Si, Prelude SH...
I wanted our S2K in red, she wanted it silver with red interior... we never got one.. the one that she had a chance to get was Suzuka blue so we passed...
WongKN wrote: Well, perhaps not moms strictly but over here, there are a lot of considerations for the 'other half' as well as 'the rest of the family' for the buying decision for the main car. As in for each family, there is usually only enough budget for -one- main car and for obvious reasons, that should be the best car the family can afford, and the safest, and usually an automatic transmission so the wife can drive it if necessary, and nowadays often also an SUV. Thus I have never really questioned the decision made to go for the mass market. I just think that Honda is in for a lot of trouble because they aim for the mass market. It is a corporate decision they make and I am not saying it is right or wrong - it is right for them since they decided to adopt it but I just pity them because along with the mass market comes the obsession with EPA numbers, and the reliance on mainstream media and all sorts of other stuff that I think Honda might not really be ready for. But I suppose for the sake of a continued healthy existence they have to do it. The decision to drop the enthusiast along the way is what I do not think highly of. But again that is a decision Honda has made and it is their decision so I just live around it. I still remember a couple of years ago, complaining about how there is no more truly sporty models from Honda to a local (now ex) Honda product planner and he looked at me with a little bit of shame and said "Mr Wong, I am afraid to have to tell you that I have seen the product plan for ASEAN for the next five years and THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO SPORTS OR SPORTY MODELS IN THE LINE-UP !".
I think it is like I was writing on the other thread, one just have to respect the decision Honda has made and then take a hard look at oneself and decide honestly what next to do when changing the car. There is no need to change manufacturer due to spite at Honda or anything. Just change to what takes one's fancy. Again, although it was written mostly in jest, I really do think if Honda is going to continue Toyota-rizing their models, I might as well get a Toyota. Though of course, the current Hondas are still way better than a Toyota appliance. Most Toyotas at least.
My next car is going to be a Natural Gas Civic Navi and the car after that will be an FCX Clarity...........There is NO OTHER OPTION FOR ME!!!!!!!! I will get what I want.........
TonyE wrote: Don't belittle women.. many of them love driving fast cars.
My sister who's sticking to her 05 RSX-S.. she just updated her tires (some kind of Potenza) and she's loving it.
My wife who loves driving cars with manuals and bemoans that she can't get a Civic EX with a stick... I guess I need to call the insurance company and figure out how much more will the insurance on the Si is....
And, there's nothing wrong with an Odyssey when you put the correct tires on it. I think the Sienna needs a new suspension before it can even start to exceed the limits of its OEM tires.
Where is anyone belittling women?
Too bad your wife missed the summit. Doesn't she work for Honda?
Aaahh.... you can pick on me but my wife is off limits... Capisce?
Anyhow, she does real work. And she can out drive many of you.
BTW... Just got off the phone... Insurance for the 4 door Si surprisingly reasonable. So I think she's changing the order to get the Si instead of the EX. So you better watch out. She'll be driving it and I think she can spank many of you guys.
I told her to make it red.... I hope she makes it in red... we'd had a few fun cars in red: 89 CRX Si, 90 Civic Si, Prelude SH...
I wanted our S2K in red, she wanted it silver with red interior... we never got one.. the one that she had a chance to get was Suzuka blue so we passed...
my wife loves smoking those SUVs and minivans at the traffic lights when she is driving. She doesn't go crazy fast in the corners or whatnot (good thing since if she's driving chances are our son is on the car too), but just loves leaving those people in huge metal boxes behind and gets a kick out of that laughing.
Quickly get out of the way is the best option from those huge things is safer I guess, and bettr enjoying it .
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