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atomiclightbulb
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http://www.caranddriver.com/news/2013-bmw-3-series-sports-wagon-news
BMW has released the first round of info on the new 3er Sports Wagon, or Touring as it is called in the Old World. It will be offered in the U.S. once again, and we expect to see a 328i with the 2.0-liter four making 240 hp, a 300-hp 335i with the 3.0-liter turbo six, and a 330d with a 3.0-liter straight-six turbo-diesel and around 250 hp.
...
As it does with the new 3 sedan, BMW will offer a six-speed manual and an eight-speed automatic on its gasoline-powered models, but the 330d likely will be automatic-only. |
Acura, are you listening?
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xsr
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Frankly, it's gotten to the point of embarrassment. Acura simply can no longer compete. This coming from a longtime fan- the ILX sealed my opinion.
RIP Acura.
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TonyEX
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atomiclightbulb wrote:
http://www.caranddriver.com/news/2013-bmw-3-series-sports-wagon-news
BMW has released the first round of info on the new 3er Sports Wagon, or Touring as it is called in the Old World. It will be offered in the U.S. once again, and we expect to see a 328i with the 2.0-liter four making 240 hp, a 300-hp 335i with the 3.0-liter turbo six, and a 330d with a 3.0-liter straight-six turbo-diesel and around 250 hp.
...
As it does with the new 3 sedan, BMW will offer a six-speed manual and an eight-speed automatic on its gasoline-powered models, but the 330d likely will be automatic-only. |
Acura, are you listening?
|
Well, we ordered a TSX Wagon tech... Jeff just got one... Karl O just got one too.
http://vtec.net/forums/one-message?message_id=1058626
True, an ILX-S wagon (K24/LSD/AT6SS/Navi) and a Civic SI Wagon (K22/LSD/MT6/Navi) would be sweet... but I'm not waiting for such a small wagon so we popped the decision and placed the order.. now all we got to do is wait and hope we get one. Tech is non negotiable.. it must have NAVI and CLS.
Besides, I prefer the larger size of the TSX/5 series at this time. 200bhp will be more than sufficient for the test.
In fact, when you think about it... a TL-S Estate Wagon with MT6 and SH-AWD and Tech would be the sweetest revenge on a Bimmer.. just about any Bimmer... ;-)
And, IMHO, 330 bhp in a 3 series Bimmer is simply overkill. I wonder how many they'll sell and how can they handle CAFE numbers that way.
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Powered by Honda
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Dam that wagon is Gangsta!!!!
I wish Acura could make a product like that. One that demands respect! Very nice job BMW as usual. Acura will make one like it one of these days. 10 years maybe.
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CarPhreakD
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The TSX wagon could use a stick, but honestly other than that I don't really see a problem with the car (with the current generation powertrain).
So my question would be, for most people, would they get the BMW X1 (which is already more "tall wagon" ala Forester rather than CUV), or the BMW 3-wagon? The X1 is several grand cheaper, is it really that much more compromised, other than the fact that it doesn't come with a stick?
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JMU R1
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CarPhreakD wrote:
The TSX wagon could use a stick, but honestly other than that I don't really see a problem with the car (with the current generation powertrain).
So my question would be, for most people, would they get the BMW X1 (which is already more "tall wagon" ala Forester rather than CUV), or the BMW 3-wagon? The X1 is several grand cheaper, is it really that much more compromised, other than the fact that it doesn't come with a stick?
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The X1 is stupidly small IMO, I would never buy one of those. The 3 series wagon seems like a better deal on all counts. Especially since I could get it with a manual.
However, the front runner for my next new car if I get a wagon/5-door is the next iteration of the WRX (if Subaru doesn't screw it up). I'll definitely give the BMW a look though.
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Edward
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Indeed, new 3-series wagon looks really nice, but, the face is somehow too busy or aggressive for my taste. I like TSX Wagon's clean (my subjective opinion) & sharp look. How do they cost (X-drive)? Perhaps close to 40K....
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Karl O.
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TonyE wrote:
atomiclightbulb wrote:
http://www.caranddriver.com/news/2013-bmw-3-series-sports-wagon-news
BMW has released the first round of info on the new 3er Sports Wagon, or Touring as it is called in the Old World. It will be offered in the U.S. once again, and we expect to see a 328i with the 2.0-liter four making 240 hp, a 300-hp 335i with the 3.0-liter turbo six, and a 330d with a 3.0-liter straight-six turbo-diesel and around 250 hp.
...
As it does with the new 3 sedan, BMW will offer a six-speed manual and an eight-speed automatic on its gasoline-powered models, but the 330d likely will be automatic-only. |
Acura, are you listening?
|
Well, we ordered a TSX Wagon tech... Jeff just got one... Karl O just got one too.
http://vtec.net/forums/one-message?message_id=1058626
True, an ILX-S wagon (K24/LSD/AT6SS/Navi) and a Civic SI Wagon (K22/LSD/MT6/Navi) would be sweet... but I'm not waiting for such a small wagon so we popped the decision and placed the order.. now all we got to do is wait and hope we get one. Tech is non negotiable.. it must have NAVI and CLS.
Besides, I prefer the larger size of the TSX/5 series at this time. 200bhp will be more than sufficient for the test.
In fact, when you think about it... a TL-S Estate Wagon with MT6 and SH-AWD and Tech would be the sweetest revenge on a Bimmer.. just about any Bimmer... ;-)
And, IMHO, 330 bhp in a 3 series Bimmer is simply overkill. I wonder how many they'll sell and how can they handle CAFE numbers that way. |
We haven't picked up our wagon yet but it won't be long.
I don't know why anyone is comparing a 3 series to a TSX. The price difference, feature for feature, is about $20k. It's not even remotely in the same category.
We've been out of town on road trips the last 4 weekends, and I've had some seat time in my wife's Accord, and even with the old 165 or whatever HP K24 and the 5 speed auto- it's enough power to get around. Even if the V6 were available, I doubt we'd buy one- you just don't need the extra HP.
And, frankly, my wife wouldn't want the 6 speed manual even if it were offered. If she could have lived with a six speed I would have sold her Accord and given her my TSX to begin with.
I'm sure the 3 series wagon is a fantastic car, but I sure as hell am not interested on spending $50k on a 3 series that I'm scared to own once the warranty runs out.
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TonyEX
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Karl O. wrote:
TonyE wrote:
atomiclightbulb wrote:
http://www.caranddriver.com/news/2013-bmw-3-series-sports-wagon-news
BMW has released the first round of info on the new 3er Sports Wagon, or Touring as it is called in the Old World. It will be offered in the U.S. once again, and we expect to see a 328i with the 2.0-liter four making 240 hp, a 300-hp 335i with the 3.0-liter turbo six, and a 330d with a 3.0-liter straight-six turbo-diesel and around 250 hp.
...
As it does with the new 3 sedan, BMW will offer a six-speed manual and an eight-speed automatic on its gasoline-powered models, but the 330d likely will be automatic-only. |
Acura, are you listening?
|
Well, we ordered a TSX Wagon tech... Jeff just got one... Karl O just got one too.
http://vtec.net/forums/one-message?message_id=1058626
True, an ILX-S wagon (K24/LSD/AT6SS/Navi) and a Civic SI Wagon (K22/LSD/MT6/Navi) would be sweet... but I'm not waiting for such a small wagon so we popped the decision and placed the order.. now all we got to do is wait and hope we get one. Tech is non negotiable.. it must have NAVI and CLS.
Besides, I prefer the larger size of the TSX/5 series at this time. 200bhp will be more than sufficient for the test.
In fact, when you think about it... a TL-S Estate Wagon with MT6 and SH-AWD and Tech would be the sweetest revenge on a Bimmer.. just about any Bimmer... ;-)
And, IMHO, 330 bhp in a 3 series Bimmer is simply overkill. I wonder how many they'll sell and how can they handle CAFE numbers that way. |
We haven't picked up our wagon yet but it won't be long.
I don't know why anyone is comparing a 3 series to a TSX. The price difference, feature for feature, is about $20k. It's not even remotely in the same category.
We've been out of town on road trips the last 4 weekends, and I've had some seat time in my wife's Accord, and even with the old 165 or whatever HP K24 and the 5 speed auto- it's enough power to get around. Even if the V6 were available, I doubt we'd buy one- you just don't need the extra HP.
And, frankly, my wife wouldn't want the 6 speed manual even if it were offered. If she could have lived with a six speed I would have sold her Accord and given her my TSX to begin with.
I'm sure the 3 series wagon is a fantastic car, but I sure as hell am not interested on spending $50k on a 3 series that I'm scared to own once the warranty runs out.
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Did you order it? Where did you order it? What color? We only saw one coming into SoCal next month.... Go away!
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TonyEX
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TonyE wrote:
Did you order it? Where did you order it? What color? We only saw one coming into SoCal next month.... Go away!
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Nevermind... we got our car... ;-D
http://vtec.net/forums/one-message?message_id=1064314
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A.W.E.S.O.M. - O
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Yeah, ToVers are rollin' in TSX Sport Wagons w/Tech for $33,500 out the door? Get serious.
BMW should be the ones embarrassed why theirs cost $15K more.
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Edward
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We expect Acura to roll out TSX Wagon TOV Edition... type S, of course.
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Karl O.
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TonyE wrote:
Karl O. wrote:
TonyE wrote:
atomiclightbulb wrote:
http://www.caranddriver.com/news/2013-bmw-3-series-sports-wagon-news
BMW has released the first round of info on the new 3er Sports Wagon, or Touring as it is called in the Old World. It will be offered in the U.S. once again, and we expect to see a 328i with the 2.0-liter four making 240 hp, a 300-hp 335i with the 3.0-liter turbo six, and a 330d with a 3.0-liter straight-six turbo-diesel and around 250 hp.
...
As it does with the new 3 sedan, BMW will offer a six-speed manual and an eight-speed automatic on its gasoline-powered models, but the 330d likely will be automatic-only. |
Acura, are you listening?
|
Well, we ordered a TSX Wagon tech... Jeff just got one... Karl O just got one too.
http://vtec.net/forums/one-message?message_id=1058626
True, an ILX-S wagon (K24/LSD/AT6SS/Navi) and a Civic SI Wagon (K22/LSD/MT6/Navi) would be sweet... but I'm not waiting for such a small wagon so we popped the decision and placed the order.. now all we got to do is wait and hope we get one. Tech is non negotiable.. it must have NAVI and CLS.
Besides, I prefer the larger size of the TSX/5 series at this time. 200bhp will be more than sufficient for the test.
In fact, when you think about it... a TL-S Estate Wagon with MT6 and SH-AWD and Tech would be the sweetest revenge on a Bimmer.. just about any Bimmer... ;-)
And, IMHO, 330 bhp in a 3 series Bimmer is simply overkill. I wonder how many they'll sell and how can they handle CAFE numbers that way. |
We haven't picked up our wagon yet but it won't be long.
I don't know why anyone is comparing a 3 series to a TSX. The price difference, feature for feature, is about $20k. It's not even remotely in the same category.
We've been out of town on road trips the last 4 weekends, and I've had some seat time in my wife's Accord, and even with the old 165 or whatever HP K24 and the 5 speed auto- it's enough power to get around. Even if the V6 were available, I doubt we'd buy one- you just don't need the extra HP.
And, frankly, my wife wouldn't want the 6 speed manual even if it were offered. If she could have lived with a six speed I would have sold her Accord and given her my TSX to begin with.
I'm sure the 3 series wagon is a fantastic car, but I sure as hell am not interested on spending $50k on a 3 series that I'm scared to own once the warranty runs out.
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Did you order it? Where did you order it? What color? We only saw one coming into SoCal next month.... Go away!
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The dealer in Tallahassee has 6 TSX wagons in stock! I'm sure they'll ship it to you.
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TonyEX
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Karl O. wrote:
The dealer in Tallahassee has 6 TSX wagons in stock! I'm sure they'll ship it to you.
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Southern California... Only one coming in next month. The VIN is from Japan.
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TonyEX
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Edward wrote:
We expect Acura to roll out TSX Wagon TOV Edition... type S, of course.
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Better than driving a Cross Tour, eh?
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CarPhreakD
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JMU R1 wrote:
CarPhreakD wrote:
The TSX wagon could use a stick, but honestly other than that I don't really see a problem with the car (with the current generation powertrain).
So my question would be, for most people, would they get the BMW X1 (which is already more "tall wagon" ala Forester rather than CUV), or the BMW 3-wagon? The X1 is several grand cheaper, is it really that much more compromised, other than the fact that it doesn't come with a stick?
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The X1 is stupidly small IMO, I would never buy one of those. The 3 series wagon seems like a better deal on all counts. Especially since I could get it with a manual.
However, the front runner for my next new car if I get a wagon/5-door is the next iteration of the WRX (if Subaru doesn't screw it up). I'll definitely give the BMW a look though.
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?
[2012 BMW 3 Wagon]: Cargo Space Seats Up = 16.2 cu ft
Cargo Space Seats Down = 48.9 cu ft
Length = 178.6 inches
Width = 71.5 inches
Height = 55.8
[2012 BMW X1]: Cargo Space Seats Up = 14.8 to 17 cu ft (adjustable seats)
Cargo Space Seats Down = 47.7 cu ft
Length = 175.5 inches
Width = 70.4 inches
Height = 60.4 inches
The base price of the X1 starts at $31K. That's at least $6K less than a 3-wagon.
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JMU R1
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CarPhreakD wrote:
JMU R1 wrote:
CarPhreakD wrote:
The TSX wagon could use a stick, but honestly other than that I don't really see a problem with the car (with the current generation powertrain).
So my question would be, for most people, would they get the BMW X1 (which is already more "tall wagon" ala Forester rather than CUV), or the BMW 3-wagon? The X1 is several grand cheaper, is it really that much more compromised, other than the fact that it doesn't come with a stick?
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The X1 is stupidly small IMO, I would never buy one of those. The 3 series wagon seems like a better deal on all counts. Especially since I could get it with a manual.
However, the front runner for my next new car if I get a wagon/5-door is the next iteration of the WRX (if Subaru doesn't screw it up). I'll definitely give the BMW a look though.
|
?
[2012 BMW 3 Wagon]: Cargo Space Seats Up = 16.2 cu ft
Cargo Space Seats Down = 48.9 cu ft
Length = 178.6 inches
Width = 71.5 inches
Height = 55.8
[2012 BMW X1]: Cargo Space Seats Up = 14.8 to 17 cu ft (adjustable seats)
Cargo Space Seats Down = 47.7 cu ft
Length = 175.5 inches
Width = 70.4 inches
Height = 60.4 inches
The base price of the X1 starts at $31K. That's at least $6K less than a 3-wagon.
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Having seen the X1 in person, I can safely say I'm never buying one. It doesn't use the space that it has very well, and it simply doesn't appeal to me in any way, shape, or fashion. If I was going to buy a compact luxury SUV it would be the RDX. If it had to be a BMW, I'd rather have a 3 series wagon, even if it is pricier.
But, as I said, the front runner for me would be a 5-door WRX. If I were going more luxurious the 3 series wagon would warrant a look, as would the TSX wagon. The major thing holding the TSX back is the lack of a 6MT, but I dunno, maybe I could overlook that. I'll probably be looking sometime next year, but I'm not even sure what my car lineup will look like then.
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atomiclightbulb
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Karl O. wrote:
We haven't picked up our wagon yet but it won't be long.
I don't know why anyone is comparing a 3 series to a TSX. The price difference, feature for feature, is about $20k. It's not even remotely in the same category.
We've been out of town on road trips the last 4 weekends, and I've had some seat time in my wife's Accord, and even with the old 165 or whatever HP K24 and the 5 speed auto- it's enough power to get around. Even if the V6 were available, I doubt we'd buy one- you just don't need the extra HP. |
Congrats first to TonyE, Karl O., and Jeff for buying the Acura wagon. It's a great looking car and definitely gets my attention every time I see one on the road.
Yes, the BMW wagon is more expensive and almost certainly much more costly to maintain outside of warranty, but at least BMW gives people the option of having a manual, while Acura has steadily deleted manuals or relegated them to very restricted option packages (Example: ILX. Not even the option for Tech package with the K24+6MT).
The K24+5AT is acceptable to me as a powertrain for a touring car, but I have long maintained that it is a pathetic joke for Acura to call the TSX wagon a "sport" wagon. There is nothing "sport" about the lack of a manual. Paddle shifters on a slushbox doesn't do it for me. I don't want the expense of owning a third car for sport (I'd buy a BRZ and call it a day if I could), so the car that I drive has to be a manual of some kind but still have enough room to drag kids+gear around. Oh well, at least Honda will still be offering a manual with the 9G Accord... I am thankful for that.
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TonyEX
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atomiclightbulb wrote:
Congrats first to TonyE, Karl O., and Jeff for buying the Acura wagon. It's a great looking car and definitely gets my attention every time I see one on the road.
Yes, the BMW wagon is more expensive and almost certainly much more costly to maintain outside of warranty, but at least BMW gives people the option of having a manual, while Acura has steadily deleted manuals or relegated them to very restricted option packages (Example: ILX. Not even the option for Tech package with the K24+6MT).
The K24+5AT is acceptable to me as a powertrain for a touring car, but I have long maintained that it is a pathetic joke for Acura to call the TSX wagon a "sport" wagon. There is nothing "sport" about the lack of a manual. Paddle shifters on a slushbox doesn't do it for me. I don't want the expense of owning a third car for sport (I'd buy a BRZ and call it a day if I could), so the car that I drive has to be a manual of some kind but still have enough room to drag kids+gear around. Oh well, at least Honda will still be offering a manual with the 9G Accord... I am thankful for that.
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OK, I have not driven the TSX yet... but in the CLs, TLs we owned, I found the Sport Shift to be very useful.
Going into a turn, I'd click-click into a lower gear, knowing the powertrain would delay the downshift until it was safe to do so. Going into the turn, thus, I'd get on the brakes and keep my hands on the wheel and my foot on the brake.
Slowing down and approaching the apex, the transmission would smoothly downshift without upsetting the suspension (*).
On exit from the apex, then it was a natural to apply power and the car -being at the right gear- would smoothly accelerate... At that point, it was easy to reach down and click up a gear as needed.
I figure the paddle shifters will make this even easier. Although I'm used to going for the shifter myself.
The only time the Sport Shift is a pain is when the computer decides that it won't allow the downshift... the 01 CL was a particular PITA on this. At speed, sometimes I'd want to squeeze the power off the engine's last 2000 rpm and I'd "request" a downshift.. but the damn computer would override me and just blink! blink! at me... Damn fuel efficiency maps! Admittedly this only happened at elevated speeds though. ;-)
Oh, never had this issue in the 04 TL. That was exceptionally well sorted out.
(*) This is important because on "normal" autos kept at "D" the transmission has a habit of going to the highest gear and then on exit of the apex, when you punch it, they hesitate a bit and then abruptly downshift... thus making it abrupt and un-sporting.
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TonyEX
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I should note that I refer to the TSX Wagon we just ordered.. I have not driven it but given that I've driving a Civic Hybrid. ;-)
I have driven the first gen TSX sedan.. both MT6!! and AT5SS.
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Karl O.
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TonyE wrote:
I should note that I refer to the TSX Wagon we just ordered.. I have not driven it but given that I've driving a Civic Hybrid. ;-)
I have driven the first gen TSX sedan.. both MT6!! and AT5SS.
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Hmm the only SS I had to live with was a base RSX for a couple of days- they were painting the bumper on my RSX-S and I thought it sucked.
But I will also say that I drove the '06 Accord with the 5 spd auto and the old K24 to Tampa with one of my buddies and my wife to see Van Halen.
a) Do not pay $160 per ticket to see Van Halen
b) I was driving a little aggressively on the way down and I was sort of humping it through traffic on I-75 and my passengers told me that I needed to bring it down a notch because I was hauling too much ass.
It's a good powertrain. It's gonna be a dog compared to your TL, but it's a dog compared to my S2000 that I have now re-adopted as my daily driver and I never thought it needed more power.
I know you had an RSX-S, I think, but it's just not that peaky. The K24 sort of oozes torques and you just keep it in the middle of the powerband and it keeps going.
I think you'll be happy with it. My first car was an '86 Mitsubishi Mirage with a 1.5L lump with a single barrel Mikuni carb that hated life and made 68 hp on a good day, so I laugh my ass off at people that don't think that 200 hp can't move a car around.
C'mon. C'mon. Really?
OOOOhhh let's all get 500 hp wagons and sit in traffic! Seriously?
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FiSH-Chan
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Karl O. wrote:
OOOOhhh let's all get 500 hp wagons and sit in traffic! Seriously?
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Not a wagon, but I happen to mention someone in my town likes driving (sitting) his Lamboghini in rush hour traffic in my town in the other thread. Almost everytime I see him he always turns into the petrol station..
Some people do this, seriously..
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atomiclightbulb
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TonyE wrote:
atomiclightbulb wrote:
There is nothing "sport" about the lack of a manual. Paddle shifters on a slushbox doesn't do it for me. |
OK, I have not driven the TSX yet... but in the CLs, TLs we owned, I found the Sport Shift to be very useful.
Going into a turn, I'd click-click into a lower gear, knowing the powertrain would delay the downshift until it was safe to do so. Going into the turn, thus, I'd get on the brakes and keep my hands on the wheel and my foot on the brake.
(*) This is important because on "normal" autos kept at "D" the transmission has a habit of going to the highest gear and then on exit of the apex, when you punch it, they hesitate a bit and then abruptly downshift... thus making it abrupt and un-sporting. |
Well, I'm interested to know how the Sport Shift on the wagon works for you.
Personally, I do not want any computer meddling in when I choose to shift gears. Ever. I understand that Sport Shift may involve some compromises for safety and environmental reasons, but those are compromises that I am unwilling to accept. Acura can expect no break in criticism from me.
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