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DOHCtor
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Yup. It's that thread again.
Lets get straight to the point. It can be argued that the benchmark for the new NSX would be cars like GT-R and LF-A. You can bet your bottoms, Honda won't be aiming at something like Porsche 918. So I think we will see a high-revving 3.6 litre V6, producing somewhere north of 450hp. Add a couple of more ponies from the electric motors and it should get close to 550hp? Because I don't see it hanging in there with the big boys with anything less than 550 horses. What do you guys think?
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Chocs
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For what it's worth, there was also a rumour that the MP4-12C is being viewed as a competitor as well. I think Honda could be aiming for an all-rounder with the next NSX. That is, rather than being completely performance oriented, it's going to be comfortable, environmentally conscious (whether you like it or not), and deliver on Ito's word of "synergy between man and machine."
What he actually means by that... could be anyone's guess. Will it be too easy to drive, making the driver feel detached from the road? Or will the car be an extension to the driver's senses?
Whatever it is, that will probably be their main goal. Then comes power-to-weight ratio, so hp numbers could mean squat if they couldn't shed enough weight. This car should look weaker on paper than the competition but will obliterate them around curves using e-SHAWD and instant torque. Top speed will likely be a tradeoff.
That said, I would expect only about 500hp total. One thing for sure... that one way or another, they really, REALLY need to get this "right".
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owequitit
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DOHCtor wrote:
Yup. It's that thread again.
Lets get straight to the point. It can be argued that the benchmark for the new NSX would be cars like GT-R and LF-A. You can bet your bottoms, Honda won't be aiming at something like Porsche 918. So I think we will see a high-revving 3.6 litre V6, producing somewhere north of 450hp. Add a couple of more ponies from the electric motors and it should get close to 550hp? Because I don't see it hanging in there with the big boys with anything less than 550 horses. What do you guys think?
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You are optimistic, I think.
Figure 300-350HP from the gas engine, and no more than 100Hp from the electric motors. 450 tops.
But don't worry, you will be soothed with all the leaches telling you that it is green, just as good as a real sports car engine and allows Honda to build a cheaper turd. Maybe if we are lucky, it won't have McStruts in the front, and might actually have some new chassis tech besides just steel or aluminum. Most likely though, it will be modestly powered from the start, it will never get any improvements, and then Honda will cancel it after 15 years with the justification that people don't want sports cars (nevermind that it will more likely be because the car is no longer competitive). On top of that, they will give you a sedan engine (most likely a version of the DI J series coming with the "Earth Dreams" logo) to which they will say it casts a "halo" effect on the rest of the shitty turds in Acura's lineup.
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musicmanvin
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I'm thinking it's going to have around 430-450hp, anything above will be surprising. Power isn't everything, when the GT-R first launched it had 480 and weighed 3800lbs, but look at the performance it delivered.. even by today's standard it's still really fast!
There's rumors of Acura wanting this car under 3000lbs, so even with 430HP I don't think there will be a lack in performance. What most important for this will be to make it a daily driver as an alternative to the R8.
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BachelorFrog
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When a 4177lbs and 420hp Audi S6 can hit 0-60 in 3.7 secs....then I'm pretty sure that NSX with only 450hp can post better acceleration numbers.
Instant low-end torque from the motors will play a huge role in that.
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2013-audi-s6-test-review
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Chocs
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If it's true the NSX's target is below 3000lbs, I hope they hit it.
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owequitit
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Car and Driver's numbers are usually on the lower end, and there is a lot more to it than just off the line. I would also pose that there is a whole lot more to performance than 0-60. When something as simple as an additional gear change can add .3-.5 seconds, then it is not the end all be all to say "X car can do it in X time, therefore Y car should be able to do it in Y time." There are way to many varibles for that.
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iutodd
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owequitit wrote:
DOHCtor wrote:
Yup. It's that thread again.
Lets get straight to the point. It can be argued that the benchmark for the new NSX would be cars like GT-R and LF-A. You can bet your bottoms, Honda won't be aiming at something like Porsche 918. So I think we will see a high-revving 3.6 litre V6, producing somewhere north of 450hp. Add a couple of more ponies from the electric motors and it should get close to 550hp? Because I don't see it hanging in there with the big boys with anything less than 550 horses. What do you guys think?
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You are optimistic, I think.
Figure 300-350HP from the gas engine, and no more than 100Hp from the electric motors. 450 tops.
But don't worry, you will be soothed with all the leaches telling you that it is green, just as good as a real sports car engine and allows Honda to build a cheaper turd. Maybe if we are lucky, it won't have McStruts in the front, and might actually have some new chassis tech besides just steel or aluminum. Most likely though, it will be modestly powered from the start, it will never get any improvements, and then Honda will cancel it after 15 years with the justification that people don't want sports cars (nevermind that it will more likely be because the car is no longer competitive). On top of that, they will give you a sedan engine (most likely a version of the DI J series coming with the "Earth Dreams" logo) to which they will say it casts a "halo" effect on the rest of the shitty turds in Acura's lineup.
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Just by looking at what Honda has said, on and off the record, as reported on TOV.
From way back in December (on TOV):
"Acura wouldn't tell us anything about the engine or powertrain, but off the record they were quick to tell us that the announced Electric SH-AWD system with 3.5L DI V6 was clearly not potent enough for this car. It should be noted that THAT powertrain, with its 7-speed dual clutch gearbox and 3 electric motors, develops a peak output in the neighborhood of 400hp. Obviously with the MR layout, Honda has to engineer a very specific setup for this car, and we're assuming it will essentially be a reversed layout compared to the FF-oriented design which was revealed previously. "
From the Detroit Press Release:
"In addition to the handling benefits of the Sport Hybrid SH-AWD® system, a powerful next-generation VTEC® V-6 engine with direct-injection works in concert with a dual clutch transmission with built-in electric motor to create supercar acceleration while offering outstanding efficiency."
From the RLX press release:
"Through engineering efficiency, including substantial use of high-strength steel and aluminum, the RLX Concept achieves an ultra-rigid and light body design, with the front wheel drive version to weigh in at well under 4,000 pounds. An all-new double wishbone front suspension, multi-link rear suspension, Amplitude Reactive Dampers and electronic power steering with a variable gear ratio team to provide the foundation for the RLX’s precise and intuitive handling control — termed by Acura as “Inomama” or “at the will of the driver.”
So your 450 hp number from the new DI V6+motors is probably about right. And depending upon what "well under 4000 pounds" means, it could be impressive or not. 3700 lbs would be impressive, 3800 lbs would be good, 3900 lbs would be OK. And you might have noticed that there is a new Double Wishbone front Suspension in the RLX.
The new 911 Carrera S shows what can be done in terms of weight I think (I believe it's just aluminum and steel) with regards to what is possible with the NSX. It weighs 3100 pounds and is about 6 inches longer and 5 inches taller than the NSX concept. It has 400 hp (at 7400 rpm BTW) and 325 lb-ft and goes 0-60 in 4 seconds flat. It starts at $96,400.
Add 50 hp and about 175 lb-ft to those power numbers then things get interesting I think. Obviously weight is the biggest factor if we cap the power numbers at 450 hp. I'm optimistic that Acura can keep the weight under 3250 lbs and because of the AWD and electric motor torque, I am also optimistic for sub 3.3 second 0-60 times.
The GT-R weighs 3800 lbs and has 545 hp and gets to 60 in under 3 seconds. That 7 lbs per hp number seems to be important for getting close to 3 seconds for 0-60. The GT-R is at 7.02 and it does sub 3 seconds. A 3200 lb NSX with 450 hp would be at 7.11
Just from my perspective - a 450 lb NSX can certainly compete with the "big boys" if Honda can save enough weight - obviously that is a large challenge...but they built a HondaJet with a composite Carbon Fiber fuselage - why not a car?
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superchg2
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Seems like there's a whole lot of speculation goin' on here.
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TurkMan71
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Just to add to the speculation, take this for what it's worth - From a moderator on NSXprime:
"The concept made its NY debut today and was getting rave reviews. One of the Acura reps came over to me to ask if I wanted to know anything about the car and I asked her if she wanted me to tell her anything about it. I explained my position with the NSXCA and then said I had been in Japan for Fiesta in 2010 and hinted that when we were at Honda R&D that we were given some info. She then admitted they know more than they are allowed to tell and she gets tired of only talking about the limited "talking points" they have been given.
Some comments she made:
1. They have a target 0-60
2. They will need to get it under 3000 lbs to hit the target
3. They will need to come in between 425 and 450 hp to hit the target
4. The beak will need some redesign because the concept has no headlights right now
5. They are not saying what the body is made of but the belief is a lot of carbon fiber is used to get it to make its sub 3000 lb weight
6. The batteries are "extremely small" and add "nominal" weight
7. The side mirrors will be kept as they appear on the concept
8. Much of the technology is being tested in the RLX"
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php?t=159974
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Mikeydred
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TurkMan71 wrote:
Just to add to the speculation, take this for what it's worth - From a moderator on NSXprime:
"The concept made its NY debut today and was getting rave reviews. One of the Acura reps came over to me to ask if I wanted to know anything about the car and I asked her if she wanted me to tell her anything about it. I explained my position with the NSXCA and then said I had been in Japan for Fiesta in 2010 and hinted that when we were at Honda R&D that we were given some info. She then admitted they know more than they are allowed to tell and she gets tired of only talking about the limited "talking points" they have been given.
Some comments she made:
1. They have a target 0-60
2. They will need to get it under 3000 lbs to hit the target
3. They will need to come in between 425 and 450 hp to hit the target
4. The beak will need some redesign because the concept has no headlights right now
5. They are not saying what the body is made of but the belief is a lot of carbon fiber is used to get it to make its sub 3000 lb weight
6. The batteries are "extremely small" and add "nominal" weight
7. The side mirrors will be kept as they appear on the concept
8. Much of the technology is being tested in the RLX"
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php?t=159974
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I was at the NY show and can confirm I heard a lot of the same!
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