Is there some new obscure international requirement for new cars that states that a front door has to open when the inside handle is pulled (thus unlocking the front door) regardless of whether the door is locked?
I've just never been a fan of these kinds of systems for safety reasons--if a passenger unthinkingly grabs the handle and pulls, the door opens! Both Ford and VW/Audi (that I know of) used to have door locks that would "disappear" into the doors when they were locked, likely as a theft deterrent. (At least with the VWAG products, if memory serves, you'd have to pull the handle TWICE, once to unlock and once to open the door.) I also don't care for the automatic locking and unlocking on most new cars--my next car will be a 2013 Accord, and I guarantee that stuff will be shut off before I even drive the car off the dealer's lot. (It looks like the iMid makes that idiot-proof enough even for THIS idiot!)
So I was a little disappointed to see this blurb in the owner's manual of both the new Civic and RDX--it looks like Honda is doing it on its new designs, meaning my next car will probably have this feature:
"The inner front door handles are designed to allow front seat occupants to open the door in one motion. However this feature requires that front seat occupants never pull a front door inner handle while the vehicle is in motion."
Anybody know anything about this? Another way to keep kids out of the front seat even if they're tall enough, perhaps? (This from a guy who routinely came to blows with his brother over who would get the front seat back in the day--how times change!!)
Gfn8r wrote: Is there some new obscure international requirement for new cars that states that a front door has to open when the inside handle is pulled (thus unlocking the front door) regardless of whether the door is locked?
I've just never been a fan of these kinds of systems for safety reasons--if a passenger unthinkingly grabs the handle and pulls, the door opens! Both Ford and VW/Audi (that I know of) used to have door locks that would "disappear" into the doors when they were locked, likely as a theft deterrent. (At least with the VWAG products, if memory serves, you'd have to pull the handle TWICE, once to unlock and once to open the door.) I also don't care for the automatic locking and unlocking on most new cars--my next car will be a 2013 Accord, and I guarantee that stuff will be shut off before I even drive the car off the dealer's lot. (It looks like the iMid makes that idiot-proof enough even for THIS idiot!)
So I was a little disappointed to see this blurb in the owner's manual of both the new Civic and RDX--it looks like Honda is doing it on its new designs, meaning my next car will probably have this feature:
"The inner front door handles are designed to allow front seat occupants to open the door in one motion. However this feature requires that front seat occupants never pull a front door inner handle while the vehicle is in motion."
Anybody know anything about this? Another way to keep kids out of the front seat even if they're tall enough, perhaps? (This from a guy who routinely came to blows with his brother over who would get the front seat back in the day--how times change!!)
Is it only the driver's side? If so I would have no problems with that. I can't see any reason why it would be on the passenger door though!!
Gfn8r wrote: Is there some new obscure international requirement for new cars that states that a front door has to open when the inside handle is pulled (thus unlocking the front door) regardless of whether the door is locked?
I've just never been a fan of these kinds of systems for safety reasons--if a passenger unthinkingly grabs the handle and pulls, the door opens! Both Ford and VW/Audi (that I know of) used to have door locks that would "disappear" into the doors when they were locked, likely as a theft deterrent. (At least with the VWAG products, if memory serves, you'd have to pull the handle TWICE, once to unlock and once to open the door.) I also don't care for the automatic locking and unlocking on most new cars--my next car will be a 2013 Accord, and I guarantee that stuff will be shut off before I even drive the car off the dealer's lot. (It looks like the iMid makes that idiot-proof enough even for THIS idiot!)
So I was a little disappointed to see this blurb in the owner's manual of both the new Civic and RDX--it looks like Honda is doing it on its new designs, meaning my next car will probably have this feature:
"The inner front door handles are designed to allow front seat occupants to open the door in one motion. However this feature requires that front seat occupants never pull a front door inner handle while the vehicle is in motion."
Anybody know anything about this? Another way to keep kids out of the front seat even if they're tall enough, perhaps? (This from a guy who routinely came to blows with his brother over who would get the front seat back in the day--how times change!!)
This is very directly a safety response.
As in you have just been in an accident and barely have the presence of mind to exit the vehicle. It is much like the pull style only door handles, rather than the old recessed ones, which make it easier for rescue crews to open.
As examples of when this technology would be useful, consider a car that is burning after an impact, or has driven into water and is flooded completely on the inside. In these situations, the difference between one pull and two seperate actions (unlocking and pulling) could be the difference between life and death. It also partially reduces the likelihood that one of the 2 mechanisms has failed in such a situation.
As for pulling the door open and falling out, it is true that such a system WOULD allow that in theory. In practice though, the amount of aerodynamic force above anything about 20MPH will make that largely unlikely due to the surface area of the door trying to open. A strong person could likely open it a little, but even they are unlikely to be able to hold it open far enough, long enough for a person to fit through the door.
Besides, having the door open with one motion while locked would be no different than programming your door locks to remain unlocked when the car is in motion and then someone pulling the handle anyway.
To address the safety issue, new VAG cars have logic to turn on the hazards, beep the horn, unlock the doors and turn on the interior lights when airbags deploy. (Though they might not deploy depending on how you end up in an accident with the car under water or on fire, as owe states.) Can't recall what other manufacturers have for post-crash assists. (Ford has had fuel-shutoff for ages--my grandmother's '91 Tempo is so-equipped--where the fuel pump is shut off in a severe impact, and you need to pull a cable in the trunk to restart it.)
Owe brings up another good point about the outside door handles on recent Hondas, and how easy they are to grab. (Mercedes has done that for years.) I think you're also correct about not being able to physically open the door at 80 mph!! Still..;-)
And I guess I'm just stubborn in wanting to do some things for myself, versus having the car do it all!
To address the safety issue, new VAG cars have logic to turn on the hazards, beep the horn, unlock the doors and turn on the interior lights when airbags deploy. (Though they might not deploy depending on how you end up in an accident with the car under water or on fire, as owe states.) Can't recall what other manufacturers have for post-crash assists. (Ford has had fuel-shutoff for ages--my grandmother's '91 Tempo is so-equipped--where the fuel pump is shut off in a severe impact, and you need to pull a cable in the trunk to restart it.)
Owe brings up another good point about the outside door handles on recent Hondas, and how easy they are to grab. (Mercedes has done that for years.) I think you're also correct about not being able to physically open the door at 80 mph!! Still..;-)
And I guess I'm just stubborn in wanting to do some things for myself, versus having the car do it all!
I tend to agree, which is why I programmed my door locks to shut off and not lock or unlock my doors without my manually doing so, but most of them are nods to safety.
As for the safety assists on most new cars, they are pretty extensive. I would have to check the owners manual, but I do know that the safety section is the longest single section in the book.
owequitit wrote: As for pulling the door open and falling out, it is true that such a system WOULD allow that in theory. In practice though, the amount of aerodynamic force above anything about 20MPH will make that largely unlikely due to the surface area of the door trying to open. A strong person could likely open it a little, but even they are unlikely to be able to hold it open far enough, long enough for a person to fit through the door.
That is true, if driving straight. However, in a turn, depending on direction and which door, at 20 mph or even higher is enough to swing the door open as well, and bring the passenger out with it, especially if it is a small child pulling on the handle without seatbelt? Anyway people should never put children in the front seat anyway but many people I know do it. Even in the back seat there are plenty of cases children falling out because they don't use the child lock.
owequitit wrote: As for pulling the door open and falling out, it is true that such a system WOULD allow that in theory. In practice though, the amount of aerodynamic force above anything about 20MPH will make that largely unlikely due to the surface area of the door trying to open. A strong person could likely open it a little, but even they are unlikely to be able to hold it open far enough, long enough for a person to fit through the door.
That is true, if driving straight. However, in a turn, depending on direction and which door, at 20 mph or even higher is enough to swing the door open as well, and bring the passenger out with it, especially if it is a small child pulling on the handle without seatbelt? Anyway people should never put children in the front seat anyway but many people I know do it. Even in the back seat there are plenty of cases children falling out because they don't use the child lock.
Its possible for a small kid to walk out into the road and get run over too. Should they mandate a safety feature for that as well? The reality is that there is NO perfect safety solution, and it certainly wouldn't prevent the use of common sense.
In order for a body to have enough inertia behind it to open the door, it would have to be pushed into the door, pulling the handle and be unbelted all at the same time. Either the person is trying to get out, or they are just stupid... By your logic I could make an argument that cars shouldn't have roll down windows because a small child could roll down the window, stand up and jump out.
Also, try opening your door at neighborhood speeds some time. That is a good 6-10 square feet of flat surface area that isn't going to want to be opened. Can it? Yes. Is it likely that someone is going to put that much force into it while not being belted in, opening the door handle etc? I suppose anything is possible, but it isn't very likely. However, needing to get out of a burning, crashed, or flooded car IS more likely.
owequitit wrote: By your logic I could make an argument that cars shouldn't have roll down windows because a small child could roll down the window, stand up and jump out.
Also, try opening your door at neighborhood speeds some time. That is a good 6-10 square feet of flat surface area that isn't going to want to be opened. Can it? Yes. Is it likely that someone is going to put that much force into it while not being belted in, opening the door handle etc? I suppose anything is possible, but it isn't very likely. However, needing to get out of a burning, crashed, or flooded car IS more likely.
I will not argue about the people doing stupid things or that car manufacturers should make everything idiot proof.
However, I want to point out it is NOT my logic, it has happened before; a kid opens the door as the car is TURNING, the force is enough to open up the door and the person, kid or not, will fall out. If they are belted, then they don't fall out, but the door will still swing open.
What I am saying is that if the car is TURNING the door WILL open.
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