CarGuyLee
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About 6 months ago we were on our last 150 miles of a 1000 mile trip when we decided to stop at a bakery we read about. When we got off the highway, and started slowing down the car started running really rough, almost like it was going to die, and the check engine light came on. So we checked out the book and one of the things it mentioned was the gas cap might not be on correctly. This made sense because we put gas in about 80-100 miles prior. It was at a place we always stop at and get gas on that trip, both on our way there and on the way back. Checked that everything seemed fine when we started it back up. Drove a little while longer and was going to pull off again and it did the same thing. At highway speeds the car was fine. So we finally get off the highway and into the neighborhood and it is doing it again.
The next morning I take it to the dealer, and it did fine the whole way there, and they couldn't find anything wrong. They thought it might be bad gas. I drove it for about 60 miles after leaving there and no problems.
This morning my wife calls and says it started doing it again on the way to work. We haven't purchased gas at any place that we don't normally purchase gas, just not sure what it could be.
I plan on taking it to the dealer tomorrow to get it checked out, but wanted to see if anyone here had any suggestions or thoughts. Anything?
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JeffX
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CarGuyLee wrote:
About 6 months ago we were on our last 150 miles of a 1000 mile trip when we decided to stop at a bakery we read about. When we got off the highway, and started slowing down the car started running really rough, almost like it was going to die, and the check engine light came on. So we checked out the book and one of the things it mentioned was the gas cap might not be on correctly. This made sense because we put gas in about 80-100 miles prior. It was at a place we always stop at and get gas on that trip, both on our way there and on the way back. Checked that everything seemed fine when we started it back up. Drove a little while longer and was going to pull off again and it did the same thing. At highway speeds the car was fine. So we finally get off the highway and into the neighborhood and it is doing it again.
The next morning I take it to the dealer, and it did fine the whole way there, and they couldn't find anything wrong. They thought it might be bad gas. I drove it for about 60 miles after leaving there and no problems.
This morning my wife calls and says it started doing it again on the way to work. We haven't purchased gas at any place that we don't normally purchase gas, just not sure what it could be.
I plan on taking it to the dealer tomorrow to get it checked out, but wanted to see if anyone here had any suggestions or thoughts. Anything?
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how healthy is your battery? Is it something that only happens at low speeds? If your battery is marginal, it's possible your alternator isn't cranking enough current at low speeds to keep the injectors firing properly.
I had a similar issue with my s2000 a few years ago and i couldn't figure out what it was until one day the battery couldn't even turn over the engine. I replaced the battery and suddenly my s2000 ran perfectly again at low speeds. I had trouble keeping it idling and at very low speeds it was all herky jerky. At higher speeds it was perfect.
If your car is an '08 and still on the original battery, it wouldn't surprise me if it's nearing death, assuming your car is 4 to 5 years old.
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CarGuyLee
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Jeff wrote:
CarGuyLee wrote:
About 6 months ago we were on our last 150 miles of a 1000 mile trip when we decided to stop at a bakery we read about. When we got off the highway, and started slowing down the car started running really rough, almost like it was going to die, and the check engine light came on. So we checked out the book and one of the things it mentioned was the gas cap might not be on correctly. This made sense because we put gas in about 80-100 miles prior. It was at a place we always stop at and get gas on that trip, both on our way there and on the way back. Checked that everything seemed fine when we started it back up. Drove a little while longer and was going to pull off again and it did the same thing. At highway speeds the car was fine. So we finally get off the highway and into the neighborhood and it is doing it again.
The next morning I take it to the dealer, and it did fine the whole way there, and they couldn't find anything wrong. They thought it might be bad gas. I drove it for about 60 miles after leaving there and no problems.
This morning my wife calls and says it started doing it again on the way to work. We haven't purchased gas at any place that we don't normally purchase gas, just not sure what it could be.
I plan on taking it to the dealer tomorrow to get it checked out, but wanted to see if anyone here had any suggestions or thoughts. Anything?
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how healthy is your battery? Is it something that only happens at low speeds? If your battery is marginal, it's possible your alternator isn't cranking enough current at low speeds to keep the injectors firing properly.
I had a similar issue with my s2000 a few years ago and i couldn't figure out what it was until one day the battery couldn't even turn over the engine. I replaced the battery and suddenly my s2000 ran perfectly again at low speeds. I had trouble keeping it idling and at very low speeds it was all herky jerky. At higher speeds it was perfect.
If your car is an '08 and still on the original battery, it wouldn't surprise me if it's nearing death, assuming your car is 4 to 5 years old.
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I haven't specifically looked at the battery recently. It is on it's 2nd battery though. The original was replaced under warranty alittle over 2 years ago. We bought the car new in Feb of 08.
It does only happen at low speeds.
That sounds like what we are experincing, except it's only happened twice now over a period of 6 months, not continuious. But very herky jerky and really rough idle like it's going to die.
I am wondering if maybe it could need a fule filter. After talking to the wife some more she said she ran it down to 1/8 of a tank recently. I will mention and check into the battery issue more though. Thanks!
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98EX4cyl
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Have the dealer check your spark plugs. I had 4 replaced recently after the car check engine light came on and the car ran rough. A TSB exists for fouled plugs and includes a reprograming of VCM operation. As a reference my 08 V6 EXL has 60000 miles
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CarGuyLee
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98EX4cyl wrote:
Have the dealer check your spark plugs. I had 4 replaced recently after the car check engine light came on and the car ran rough. A TSB exists for fouled plugs and includes a reprograming of VCM operation. As a reference my 08 V6 EXL has 60000 miles
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Great, thanks! This one has 66,000 miles so about the same
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RTypezCivic
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I also suggest checking your oil. We have been seeing a fair number of V6 accords coming into the dealer with very low or no oil on the dipstick. This will set a dtc P3400 VPS stuck off bank 1 or P3497 vps stuck off bank 2. Vps stands for Valve pause system. (it's Vtec)the bulliten # for this is 11-033. Also 98EX4cyl is also right there is a sb for fouled plugs that includes replacement of only the plugs which are fouled and a pcm update. that bulliten # is 10-033. Please note that thease conditions may not apply to you and you situation but it's a start
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CarGuyLee
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RTypezCivic wrote:
I also suggest checking your oil. We have been seeing a fair number of V6 accords coming into the dealer with very low or no oil on the dipstick. This will set a dtc P3400 VPS stuck off bank 1 or P3497 vps stuck off bank 2. Vps stands for Valve pause system. (it's Vtec)the bulliten # for this is 11-033. Also 98EX4cyl is also right there is a sb for fouled plugs that includes replacement of only the plugs which are fouled and a pcm update. that bulliten # is 10-033. Please note that thease conditions may not apply to you and you situation but it's a start
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Thanks for the information. I check the oil regularly now, however I didn't always do that untill someone alerted me to the fact that the V6 seems to consume oil about 2 years ago. It really shocked me, but I have seen it be as much as a quart low within about 2000 miles of the oil being changed, I don't think I've ever had a car use that much.
Thanks again for the help.
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talon95
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Jeff wrote:
how healthy is your battery? Is it something that only happens at low speeds? If your battery is marginal, it's possible your alternator isn't cranking enough current at low speeds to keep the injectors firing properly.
I had a similar issue with my s2000 a few years ago and i couldn't figure out what it was until one day the battery couldn't even turn over the engine. I replaced the battery and suddenly my s2000 ran perfectly again at low speeds. I had trouble keeping it idling and at very low speeds it was all herky jerky. At higher speeds it was perfect.
If your car is an '08 and still on the original battery, it wouldn't surprise me if it's nearing death, assuming your car is 4 to 5 years old.
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Jeff...
I've been having some rough idling issues of late with my 2011 V6 Accord that sound quite similar to those you describe with the S2000. I wouldn't suspect battery on a car that new unless it was defective. But I'm trying to consider all possibilities.
On your S2000, did the low speed problems improve as the car warmed up? On my Accord, it idles fine when first started and then gets rough as it warms up. It pretty much settles down when fully warm, but I can always detect a trace of roughness at idle that I never detected on 3 prior Accords with J series V6 engines, including a 2008 (so I have VCM experience).
The dealer checked it out a couple of months ago and they said that there were no error codes generated for misfiring. I didn't push the issue very hard at the time so they only tested it at cold idle (February in Wisconsin, so the outside temp was fairly cold). They said it idled normally.
Anyway, I plan to go back and ride with the service tech to try to get him to experience the warmup idle problem.
Another thing... the VCM is much more noticeable on this car than on the 2008. It seems to drone a lot more and I get a sense of a kind of gritty vibration thru the steering wheel and pedals when it's engaged and I'm going up a mild incline, when it seems to be on the verge of disengaging. This leads to one more question... since the high tech engine mounts are designed to mitigate vibration from VCM, do you think I should ask the dealer to check them? Do you think there's any possibility that the mounts might be the culprit? If I'm going to get insistent about something, I'd like it to be something that has at least a chance of helping.
Thanks!
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JeffX
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talon95 wrote:
Jeff wrote:
how healthy is your battery? Is it something that only happens at low speeds? If your battery is marginal, it's possible your alternator isn't cranking enough current at low speeds to keep the injectors firing properly.
I had a similar issue with my s2000 a few years ago and i couldn't figure out what it was until one day the battery couldn't even turn over the engine. I replaced the battery and suddenly my s2000 ran perfectly again at low speeds. I had trouble keeping it idling and at very low speeds it was all herky jerky. At higher speeds it was perfect.
If your car is an '08 and still on the original battery, it wouldn't surprise me if it's nearing death, assuming your car is 4 to 5 years old.
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Jeff...
I've been having some rough idling issues of late with my 2011 V6 Accord that sound quite similar to those you describe with the S2000. I wouldn't suspect battery on a car that new unless it was defective. But I'm trying to consider all possibilities.
On your S2000, did the low speed problems improve as the car warmed up? On my Accord, it idles fine when first started and then gets rough as it warms up. It pretty much settles down when fully warm, but I can always detect a trace of roughness at idle that I never detected on 3 prior Accords with J series V6 engines, including a 2008 (so I have VCM experience).
The dealer checked it out a couple of months ago and they said that there were no error codes generated for misfiring. I didn't push the issue very hard at the time so they only tested it at cold idle (February in Wisconsin, so the outside temp was fairly cold). They said it idled normally.
Anyway, I plan to go back and ride with the service tech to try to get him to experience the warmup idle problem.
Another thing... the VCM is much more noticeable on this car than on the 2008. It seems to drone a lot more and I get a sense of a kind of gritty vibration thru the steering wheel and pedals when it's engaged and I'm going up a mild incline, when it seems to be on the verge of disengaging. This leads to one more question... since the high tech engine mounts are designed to mitigate vibration from VCM, do you think I should ask the dealer to check them? Do you think there's any possibility that the mounts might be the culprit? If I'm going to get insistent about something, I'd like it to be something that has at least a chance of helping.
Thanks!
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yeah, I doubt it's your battery. mine was pretty old when I had the problem - my car would barely idle - I'd have to gas it at stops or it would likely sputter dead.
I was going to say it sounds like your engine mount could be malfunctioning, so definitely have that checked. You said it gets rough once it warms up. That sounds like it's happening when it goes into VCM mode. But then you say it goes away when fully warm. Strange...
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talon95
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Jeff wrote:
yeah, I doubt it's your battery. mine was pretty old when I had the problem - my car would barely idle - I'd have to gas it at stops or it would likely sputter dead.
I was going to say it sounds like your engine mount could be malfunctioning, so definitely have that checked. You said it gets rough once it warms up. That sounds like it's happening when it goes into VCM mode. But then you say it goes away when fully warm. Strange...
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Thanks for the reply. I will ask about the engine mounts. The whole thing has been pretty baffling. If I get any definitive information, I'll share it. Thanks again!
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Powered by Honda
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ERG valve, fuel filter, fuel pump. spark plugs. thermostat, fuel vapor canister. One of those is causing it.
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CarGuyLee
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Well took the car to the dealer.....and the problem was.... it needed a software update according to the SA. He said that it was causing a misfire on cylinder #3, and mentioned that it was covered under warranty because it was extended for this problem so it didn't cost anything.
My family has purchased around 8 cars from this dealer over the past 20 years. The last 2 cars I've bought though I've refused to buy from them because of failure to negotiate and low ball on trades over the years. Penske bought it (it is Honda, Toyota, and Hyundia dealers all connected) a couple of years ago and have noticed big improvment in service. I was really impressed this time. They have a huge new service center for Honda and Toyota. You drive up and this big garage doors suddenly shoot up faster than anything I have ever seen. Plus they washed and vaccumed the car.
Anyway all in all I was really happy it was something simple
BTW I had asked about the fuel filter, was thinking it could use being replaced. They told me that the fuel filter is not servicable since it is in the tank.
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98EX4cyl
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so it was similar to the problem I had although I had 4 cylinder misfire codes (1-4) and all 4 plugs were replaced. The write up mentioned the replacement was emissions related, important because although the plugs should last 100k, I live in the northeast and have a PZEV Accord which carries a 15yr emission system warranty.
I always planned on having my Accord to 200k so its nice to know future plug replacements (if necessary) may also be covered under emissions warranty
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Powered by Honda
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CarGuyLee wrote:
Well took the car to the dealer.....and the problem was.... it needed a software update according to the SA. He said that it was causing a misfire on cylinder #3, and mentioned that it was covered under warranty because it was extended for this problem so it didn't cost anything.
My family has purchased around 8 cars from this dealer over the past 20 years. The last 2 cars I've bought though I've refused to buy from them because of failure to negotiate and low ball on trades over the years. Penske bought it (it is Honda, Toyota, and Hyundia dealers all connected) a couple of years ago and have noticed big improvment in service. I was really impressed this time. They have a huge new service center for Honda and Toyota. You drive up and this big garage doors suddenly shoot up faster than anything I have ever seen. Plus they washed and vaccumed the car.
Anyway all in all I was really happy it was something simple
BTW I had asked about the fuel filter, was thinking it could use being replaced. They told me that the fuel filter is not servicable since it is in the tank.
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yup so tank has to be empty and whole thing has to be replaced, filter and pump around 500 dollars.
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CarGuyLee
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Well had to take the car in again today for the same thing. This time it started out just idleing slightly rough, by time we got to the dealer it was back to sputtering real bad and the check engine light came on.....so we will see what happens this time.
I also asked them why it uses so much oil.... 1-2 quarts between oil changes.
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Twiz
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CarGuyLee wrote:
Well had to take the car in again today for the same thing. This time it started out just idleing slightly rough, by time we got to the dealer it was back to sputtering real bad and the check engine light came on.....so we will see what happens this time.
I also asked them why it uses so much oil.... 1-2 quarts between oil changes.
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if your car is an automatic, it has the V6 with VCM.. this is a known issue in early honda v6 models equipped with VCM.. for some reason those engine consume a lot more oil. supposedly honda finally addressed the problem with the 2013 acura rdx.
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JeffX
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Twiz wrote:
CarGuyLee wrote:
Well had to take the car in again today for the same thing. This time it started out just idleing slightly rough, by time we got to the dealer it was back to sputtering real bad and the check engine light came on.....so we will see what happens this time.
I also asked them why it uses so much oil.... 1-2 quarts between oil changes.
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if your car is an automatic, it has the V6 with VCM.. this is a known issue in early honda v6 models equipped with VCM.. for some reason those engine consume a lot more oil. supposedly honda finally addressed the problem with the 2013 acura rdx.
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it must be a "VCM2" issue because our "VCM1" 2006 Odyssey barely uses any oil, ever. Just over 80000 miles on the clock now.
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AdoreK24
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Did they originally diagnose the issue by pulling the trouble code from the computer? Would a bad coil show up that way? Just curious. Maybe have them check the coil packs if it continues to happen. Did they replace your spark plugs when they reprogrammed the computer?
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AdoreK24
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Have you ever added a fuel system cleaner like Gumpout Regane or Cheveron Techron to the tank? If not you might consider it prior to your next oil change to help clean your injectors, although if you are using top tier or name brand gas you are most likely ok.
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CarGuyLee
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Ok, they found one of the spark plugs to be going out causing it.
Also they said the timing belt tensioner is leaking fluid and they reccomend replacing it.
As far as using oil, they want to conduct a consumption test by brining it back every 1000 miles so they can check it. He mentioned though that Honda does not see oil consumption to be a problem unless it's using more than a quart every 1000 miles.
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CarGuyLee
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AdoreK24 wrote:
Did they originally diagnose the issue by pulling the trouble code from the computer? Would a bad coil show up that way? Just curious. Maybe have them check the coil packs if it continues to happen. Did they replace your spark plugs when they reprogrammed the computer?
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Yeah they pulled the code last time "random misfire" Not sure about the bad coil. No, they didn't replace the spark plugs last time, but going to have them all replaced this time.
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AdoreK24
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CarGuyLee wrote:
Ok, they found one of the spark plugs to be going out causing it.
Also they said the timing belt tensioner is leaking fluid and they reccomend replacing it.
As far as using oil, they want to conduct a consumption test by brining it back every 1000 miles so they can check it. He mentioned though that Honda does not see oil consumption to be a problem unless it's using more than a quart every 1000 miles.
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Replace the tensioner or the belt, or both? What are honda's recommendation on belt replacement? Might be time.
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longhorn
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CarGuyLee wrote:
Ok, they found one of the spark plugs to be going out causing it.
Also they said the timing belt tensioner is leaking fluid and they reccomend replacing it.
As far as using oil, they want to conduct a consumption test by brining it back every 1000 miles so they can check it. He mentioned though that Honda does not see oil consumption to be a problem unless it's using more than a quart every 1000 miles.
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66,000 miles and Spark Plugs need to be replaced? Is Honda still using NGKs? Something I would expect out of Bosch. No mattter, I would be ticked. I would ask the service rep how a spark plug designed for 100K mile life goes bad at only 66K.
The same for the tensioner, thats not normal. Isn't there a toll free number CarLeeGuy can call to complain? Maybe Honda will pay for some of it.
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98EX4cyl
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longhorn wrote:
CarGuyLee wrote:
Ok, they found one of the spark plugs to be going out causing it.
Also they said the timing belt tensioner is leaking fluid and they reccomend replacing it.
As far as using oil, they want to conduct a consumption test by brining it back every 1000 miles so they can check it. He mentioned though that Honda does not see oil consumption to be a problem unless it's using more than a quart every 1000 miles.
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66,000 miles and Spark Plugs need to be replaced? Is Honda still using NGKs? Something I would expect out of Bosch. No mattter, I would be ticked. I would ask the service rep how a spark plug designed for 100K mile life goes bad at only 66K.
The same for the tensioner, thats not normal. Isn't there a toll free number CarLeeGuy can call to complain? Maybe Honda will pay for some of it.
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He shouldn't pay for any of it!!!! I didn't pay to have my 4 fouled plugs replaced (see earlier post in this thread). They are NGK 100,000 mile plugs. As for the timing belt tensioner, I would ask for "Honda Good Will" replacement as this shouldn't happen either.
TSB 10-033 calls for replacement of plugs 1-4 as necessary under warranty.
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