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JeffX
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I would be a little bit surprised if they fully abandoned the Hoffmeister kink for the '13 Accord.
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NealX
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I think they just might! If only to "advance" the visual separation between Honda and Acura.
And I believe there has to be a better, bespoke solution to that area rather than the default BMW thing. To me, that alone would be the reason NOT to copy them!
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according2kev
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Yeah, I'm thinking (and hoping) they will keep it. Some think the hoffmeister kink is over used but as I've said in another thread, there aren't many different designs you can use on that part of the car. The production car will definately have some type of quarter window... as it stands, the back window can't be let down.
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HONDA AFVM
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Neal wrote:
I think they just might! If only to "advance" the visual separation between Honda and Acura.
And I believe there has to be a better, bespoke solution to that area rather than the default BMW thing. To me, that alone would be the reason NOT to copy them!
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Getting closer..........;-)
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Steve
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Sorry, not good. Roof line is too generic read: cheap looking- another panel filler? yuck.
The trim should continue around the side windows, this is a Honda NOT a Hyundai. Lines and curves on side view maybe ok for a coupe but not the sedan. This rendition looks down market. I hope Accord does not look like this. Back to the drawing board please.
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djaaronk
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Ugh...the Hoffmeister kink and headlight eyebrows are two styling elements that I'd love to never see on another car again!
I also think that Honda could be more original with their designs...maybe look within rather than copy bmw.
Looking good Neal! Does it come in a stick?
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NealX
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Steve wrote:
Sorry, not good. Roof line is too generic read: cheap looking- another panel filler? yuck.
The trim should continue around the side windows, this is a Honda NOT a Hyundai. Lines and curves on side view maybe ok for a coupe but not the sedan. This rendition looks down market. I hope Accord does not look like this. Back to the drawing board please.
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I appreciate your comments, but criticism is not necessarily direction. As always, we welcome sketches and renderings from anyone with the inclination to explore, create, share and generate conversation.
If one has a notion for something - make it! Thanks! :-)
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Torque
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I like it, but I bet the actual production version won't look as good. Thumbs up Neal.
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revvin
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Steve wrote:
Sorry, not good. Roof line is too generic read: cheap looking- another panel filler? yuck.
The trim should continue around the side windows, this is a Honda NOT a Hyundai. Lines and curves on side view maybe ok for a coupe but not the sedan. This rendition looks down market. I hope Accord does not look like this. Back to the drawing board please.
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Not sure why Neal is taking it personal, but your issue is with Honda's design direction that has culminated with the Chinese Concept C. Neal just filled in the blanks to suit what should become the NA concept with what we know about the coupe, the lackadaisical design features were there already.
Yes, the car is begging for some kink, precisely because of how poorly it resolves without one.
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NealX
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^Oh, not taking it personally. It's just a thing.
Simply, that in more academic design critiques I've been on either end of, to say you do or do not like something has never been sufficient. It's equivalent to the lazy "meh."
"What works? What doesn't and why? And what can be done to improve the piece?"
We pin it up and tear it up. But always with the intent to make it better. It's all part of the process...
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dominik331
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Can some please do a side by side with the Chinese version?
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revvin
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Neal wrote:
^Oh, not taking it personally. It's just a thing.
Simply, that in more academic design critiques I've been on either end of, to say you do or do not like something has never been sufficient. It's equivalent to the lazy "meh."
"What works? What doesn't and why? And what can be done to improve the piece?"
We pin it up and tear it up. But always with the intent to make it better. It's all part of the process...
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fair enough, but i'm not sure you'll get much more than "it just doesn't look right" or "it sucks."
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NealX
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^I understand. I may just need to lower my expectations... ;-)
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benbess
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If it looks this good I'm more likely to buy.... Nice work.
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Steve
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Neal wrote:
Steve wrote:
Sorry, not good. Roof line is too generic read: cheap looking- another panel filler? yuck.
The trim should continue around the side windows, this is a Honda NOT a Hyundai. Lines and curves on side view maybe ok for a coupe but not the sedan. This rendition looks down market. I hope Accord does not look like this. Back to the drawing board please.
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I appreciate your comments, but criticism is not necessarily direction. As always, we welcome sketches and renderings from anyone with the inclination to explore, create, share and generate conversation.
If one has a notion for something - make it! Thanks! :-)
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Neal, absolutely no offense intended. But the nature of this type of exercise, as with any form of art, brings criticism.
One must also know that you need not be a master chef to enjoy a good meal. A master chef, as with a talented artist, can at times create, well something not as appetizing. I enjoy your work, but alas, I do not care for the Accord. That being said, I look forward to your renderings as you are a very talent artist.
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dominik331
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It might be all the sharp lines, creases and overhangs playing tricks on me, but I am not feeling this. I do like the side profile and the trunk lid, although I doubt the trunk would look like that.
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TXsalesguy
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according2kev wrote:
Yeah, I'm thinking (and hoping) they will keep it. Some think the hoffmeister kink is over used but as I've said in another thread, there aren't many different designs you can use on that part of the car. The production car will definately have some type of quarter window... as it stands, the back window can't be let down.
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Agree that it will have to have a quarter window. If the teaser for the Chinese prototypes is any indication of design, I think this element is a big part of the new design language. Remember, it only had a roof line and then the shape of the total window openings an this sharp crease in the C pillar.
So, that leads me to believe that it would be chromed all the way around. If the little triangle in the C pillar were glass, even if not see through glass, it would look ten thousand times better than a piece of black plastic.
Neal, could you add the chrome around the whole and make the triangle a piece of tinted glass?
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DCR
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Steve wrote:
Neal wrote:
Steve wrote:
Sorry, not good. Roof line is too generic read: cheap looking- another panel filler? yuck.
The trim should continue around the side windows, this is a Honda NOT a Hyundai. Lines and curves on side view maybe ok for a coupe but not the sedan. This rendition looks down market. I hope Accord does not look like this. Back to the drawing board please.
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I appreciate your comments, but criticism is not necessarily direction. As always, we welcome sketches and renderings from anyone with the inclination to explore, create, share and generate conversation.
If one has a notion for something - make it! Thanks! :-)
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Neal, absolutely no offense intended. But the nature of this type of exercise, as with any form of art, brings criticism.
One must also know that you need not be a master chef to enjoy a good meal. A master chef, as with a talented artist, can at times create, well something not as appetizing. I enjoy your work, but alas, I do not care for the Accord. That being said, I look forward to your renderings as you are a very talent artist.
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Do it better.
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NealX
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Steve wrote:
Neal wrote:
Steve wrote:
Sorry, not good. Roof line is too generic read: cheap looking- another panel filler? yuck.
The trim should continue around the side windows, this is a Honda NOT a Hyundai. Lines and curves on side view maybe ok for a coupe but not the sedan. This rendition looks down market. I hope Accord does not look like this. Back to the drawing board please.
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I appreciate your comments, but criticism is not necessarily direction. As always, we welcome sketches and renderings from anyone with the inclination to explore, create, share and generate conversation.
If one has a notion for something - make it! Thanks! :-)
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Neal, absolutely no offense intended. But the nature of this type of exercise, as with any form of art, brings criticism.
One must also know that you need not be a master chef to enjoy a good meal. A master chef, as with a talented artist, can at times create, well something not as appetizing. I enjoy your work, but alas, I do not care for the Accord. That being said, I look forward to your renderings as you are a very talent artist.
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Thanks - none taken. Though I wouldn't expect to say, "generic, cheap, yuck or down-market" in any thoughtful discussion or criticism, regardless of whether or not I found something to be palatable. Those words don't tell me anything thoughtful to consider (nor do they make the "critiquer" appear very "learned") so that I might endeavor to improve the work next time.
Considering "the nature of this type of exercise" I'm sure you understand what I'm saying. ;-)
I'm often more interested in the "How and Why," rather than the "What Is." So until then...
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Jesse
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Steve wrote:
Neal wrote:
Steve wrote:
Sorry, not good. Roof line is too generic read: cheap looking- another panel filler? yuck.
The trim should continue around the side windows, this is a Honda NOT a Hyundai. Lines and curves on side view maybe ok for a coupe but not the sedan. This rendition looks down market. I hope Accord does not look like this. Back to the drawing board please.
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I appreciate your comments, but criticism is not necessarily direction. As always, we welcome sketches and renderings from anyone with the inclination to explore, create, share and generate conversation.
If one has a notion for something - make it! Thanks! :-)
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Neal, absolutely no offense intended. But the nature of this type of exercise, as with any form of art, brings criticism.
One must also know that you need not be a master chef to enjoy a good meal. A master chef, as with a talented artist, can at times create, well something not as appetizing. I enjoy your work, but alas, I do not care for the Accord. That being said, I look forward to your renderings as you are a very talent artist.
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?
Roofline is too generic? And the rendition is downmarket? I am not getting you at all, but that is just me. I find Neal's concept exactly the opposite: the greenhouse/roofline is absolutely perfect for the sedan - it's very sleek and complements the rest of the car's body. The greenhouse/roofline is also one of the reasons why I love the Concept C because Honda hit the sweet spot here IMO. I have no idea if the Concept C's upper area is good for production but I would like Honda to apply it to their cars.
Going back to Neal's concept, the acute and slightly forward A-pillars, along with the sloping hood, help make the front-heavy car look visually balanced. Even the side creases, lines and rear-shoulder bulge are perfect IMO - just right. Strange I actually didn't like them in the Accord Coupe concept - for me something's odd with the car or maybe there's too much chrome (I HATE CHROME). My only problems with this concept are the 'blinged' and oversized bumper intakes and that rear window panel extension. That's it.
So back to the drawing board? For me, no way.
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NealX
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I think there may be some concern that the next Accord sedan could potentially be aping the Sonata - and thus losing its "Hondaness."
Honda chased phantoms with the ZDX and current TL pre-MMC. Could it happen again?
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owequitit
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Neal wrote:
Steve wrote:
Neal wrote:
Steve wrote:
Sorry, not good. Roof line is too generic read: cheap looking- another panel filler? yuck.
The trim should continue around the side windows, this is a Honda NOT a Hyundai. Lines and curves on side view maybe ok for a coupe but not the sedan. This rendition looks down market. I hope Accord does not look like this. Back to the drawing board please.
|
I appreciate your comments, but criticism is not necessarily direction. As always, we welcome sketches and renderings from anyone with the inclination to explore, create, share and generate conversation.
If one has a notion for something - make it! Thanks! :-)
|
Neal, absolutely no offense intended. But the nature of this type of exercise, as with any form of art, brings criticism.
One must also know that you need not be a master chef to enjoy a good meal. A master chef, as with a talented artist, can at times create, well something not as appetizing. I enjoy your work, but alas, I do not care for the Accord. That being said, I look forward to your renderings as you are a very talent artist.
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Thanks - none taken. Though I wouldn't expect to say, "generic, cheap, yuck or down-market" in any thoughtful discussion or criticism, regardless of whether or not I found something to be palatable. Those words don't tell me anything thoughtful to consider (nor do they make the "critiquer" appear very "learned") so that I might endeavor to improve the work next time.
Considering "the nature of this type of exercise" I'm sure you understand what I'm saying. ;-)
I'm often more interested in the "How and Why," rather than the "What Is." So until then...
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I like this rendering better than the last one, and I feel this may be more akin to what will actually appear.
However, I also agree that the C-pillar/door joint is unresolved here. I understand you took it from the concept C, but perhaps if the wedge current taken up by the plastic filler was instead glass, and integrated into the door line. That would partly provide an evolutionary Hoffmeister kink element, without actually being a seperate styling element. It would clean up the line right there, and it would provide a slightly more useable door opening.
Alternately, it could be a piece of glass affixed to the door frame, or just sheet metal. I think either of the first two would be more ideal from a visibility and airiness standpoint, although I doubt a small glass fillet would work well (think 8th gen Si front wing window, only less effective).
I do have to say that I like the flowing proportions of this car a lot more than the more formal previous attempt. I hope this is similar to what we get (minus the ridiculous front and rear bumper garnishes).
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NealX
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^Agreed!
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FiSH-Chan
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Neal wrote:
I think they just might! If only to "advance" the visual separation between Honda and Acura.
And I believe there has to be a better, bespoke solution to that area rather than the default BMW thing. To me, that alone would be the reason NOT to copy them!
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The problem is, elsewhere, there is no Acura. So unless they start making little black triangles for the Acura-market countries only and stick it on rear pillar of the cars, then yay yes very different from Acura!
I happen to like the 'kink', from the inside it helps (a bit) with the view out the rear side especially in cars with big pillars, that never happens with cars that don't have the kink.
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FiSH-Chan
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And btw, great picture Neal as usual. Something to look see and discuss .. Thank you
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saitamahonda
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Another beautiful design from a fan who has red honda blood flowing through his veins!
I was recently asked how i would feel if the next accord sedan resembled the honda ac-x and my response to this question was a thumbs up. The concept c front is somewhat reminiscent of the ac-x. Aside from the blue lit trim, the relatively flat surface with the trailing kink above the rear wheel well is subtle but muscular, in a toned way.
Whether it be an acura tsx/tl or honda accord, i feel a honda sedan should exist that speaks to the body shape of the pannamera and fisker karma. The legend rlx should have taken this form, and many of my honda sources agree. The accord can take on this form, and honda engineering is right up with porsche and surpasses fisker such that it wouldnt be a poser. A coupe like sedan is a must for Honda. A sport and gt version is encouraging. Neal- what have you in mind for these trims?
With Takuma Sato doing well in indy, honda clinching the moto gp championship, raybrig hsv010 leading the 2012 supergt championship points(two 2nd place finishes) and an eminent return to f1( as an engine supplier), honda is poised to make some new fans and bring back some who have gone astray. There have been ideas tossed around that mugen should produce a road going hsv010 and supercharged crz, especially considering the near production ready hsv just needs a smaller di engine and retain the FR setup the supergt car employs.
With that said, I wished that all honda employees had the blood that boils and gets excited when it comes to honda. How many american honda execs go to racing events? Or wear honda caps? Where are their voices? Do they exist? I apologize for the rant, but this is food for thought and a source of inspiration and ideas. Later this week I'm going to have an opportunity to have my opinions heard at a retirement party for a senior honda employee from Japan and I will make sure the sentiments of this forum are conveyed at the event. Irony is that many of them share the same sentiment.
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nash24
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its been awhile since your last post saitamahonda...
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integrator
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saitamahonda wrote:
....With that said, I wished that all honda employees had the blood that boils and gets excited when it comes to honda. How many american honda execs go to racing events? Or wear honda caps? Where are their voices? Do they exist? I apologize for the rant, but this is food for thought and a source of inspiration and ideas. Later this week I'm going to have an opportunity to have my opinions heard at a retirement party for a senior honda employee from Japan and I will make sure the sentiments of this forum are conveyed at the event. Irony is that many of them share the same sentiment. |
Saitima, exactly right. Theres a bunch of AmHonda mgrs that should be retiring instead - they turned a young vital company into a modern day Oldsmobile with slow softly sprung cars, derivative styling, and an increasing buyer age - a severe lack of competent product strategy and branding.
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saitamahonda
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nash24 wrote:
its been awhile since your last post saitamahonda...
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But I'm always looking out for the latest and greatest news posted here by TOV's disciples and monks :)
I've been super busy creating ad campaigns for various manufacturers and had to spend a great deal of time working on Kia and Toyota interactive ad units, yuck! Thankfully, I got to design and work on an interactive gallery for the Accord in between K and T, in which I gave my 150%. I'm hoping the REALLY BIG SALES EVENT promotions paid off. Unfortunately, we had to work with some of the already bad assets that are on the current Honda site. I've worked directly with the company that does Honda's advertisements and I swear they need to learn what Honda is at the core(RPA: Rubin Postaer and Associates is the company). Better yet, they need Neal!
I don't know who's idea it was to have those sales guys dressed in XXXXXL sized outfits, but I hope SOME demographic found it "funny". I've had to send e-mail complaints to them indicating the Honda website navigation was completely broken in Firefox for over 8 months until they finally fixed the roll-overs to FLASH. Acura's website doesn't work on IPAD either, and IPAD users are typically money spenders(though I am not certain if RPA does Acura's website). At one point in time, the Honda website was using Viewpoint Media to showcase interactive 3D models of their cars that you can rotate in every direction, open the doors and hoods. These 3D models had meticulous attention to under-carriage and under-hood details. It was impressive, and unfortunately, gone now. The JAVA 3D implementation on honda.co.jp website is decent, and should be ported over to the US site. Working with these mediums and the companies that think they know what they are doing, I've come to know that it takes a certain breed of person to be a Honda fan at the core. And regardless of the opinions they may have, I know the people who comment here really do care. Keep it up guys. We will prevail.
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NealX
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saitamahonda,
If you would be so kind as to email me privately...
nealatvtecdotnet
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