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  TOV News > 2013 Accord order page reveals new Sport trim, confirms 6AT, CVT and 6MT transmissions > > Re: dropping the EX-L i4 with 6MT...

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JP
Profile for JP
dropping the EX-L i4 with 6MT... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-08-2012 01:27
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boo.
99SI
Profile for 99SI
Re: dropping the EX-L i4 with 6MT... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-08-2012 09:30
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I think I can probably get over not having a 6MT with the V6 but not avaliable with leather etc.... Come on guys...
benbess
Profile for benbess
Re: dropping the EX-L i4 with 6MT... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-08-2012 09:50
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You can't get leather with a manual on an Accord now. In fact you haven't been able to do that since 2009. They phased that possibility out 2 years into this generation of Accord.

I have a 2008 Accord EXL Navi with a 5 speed manual. I had to special order it. Love the car. Wish they would offer it again, but that's not going to happen.

Manuals are dying. Haven't you heard. We're lucky they are available at all on the Accord. You can't get a manual on a Camry, Altima, etc., etc. Even Sonata is phasing their base manual out in a few months. Accord is one of the last few midsize sedans with a manual. I think the others are Passat, Fusion, and Mazda6....
DCR
Profile for DCR
Re: dropping the EX-L i4 with 6MT... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-08-2012 09:57
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benbess wrote:
You can't get leather with a manual on an Accord now. In fact you haven't been able to do that since 2009. They phased that possibility out 2 years into this generation of Accord.

I have a 2008 Accord EXL Navi with a 5 speed manual. I had to special order it. Love the car. Wish they would offer it again, but that's not going to happen.

Manuals are dying. Haven't you heard. We're lucky they are available at all on the Accord. You can't get a manual on a Camry, Altima, etc., etc. Even Sonata is phasing their base manual out in a few months. Accord is one of the last few midsize sedans with a manual. I think the others are Passat, Fusion, and Mazda6....



You mean, no leather on a manual Accord outside of the V6 6MT?

That was one thing I wish I could have avoided when I had my 2009 V6 6MT. I would gladly trade for an Si-style black cloth interior in there.

This new V6 6MT is now giving me pause on my next car purchase...now I have to wait and see what the thing looks like.
99SI
Profile for 99SI
Re: dropping the EX-L i4 with 6MT... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-08-2012 10:45
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Manuals are actually making a comeback:

http://www.upi.com/Business_News/2012/05/01/Car-consumers-return-to-stick-shift/UPI-16181335895622/
Q_Prime
Profile for Q_Prime
Re: dropping the EX-L i4 with 6MT... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-08-2012 11:13
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Will the "sport" have leather? Or definitely not? I'm not really sure what sport means anymore...
TXsalesguy
Profile for TXsalesguy
Re: dropping the EX-L i4 with 6MT... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-08-2012 17:56
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You certainly don't see it from the sales perspective. Management recently gave us a bonus for selling any of our manual Accords. You'd be surprised at the number of people that come to look at a Civic Si and walk away disappointed because it is only in a manual. Folks don't know how to drive manuals anymore.
DrWhiner
Profile for DrWhiner
Re: dropping the EX-L i4 with 6MT... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-08-2012 19:09
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MSN Auto has an opinion piece:
Are Drivers Returning to Manual Transmissions?
According to a new study, the short answer is yes. But the long answer is still no.

[...] The piece cites an uptick in stick-shift "take rates," the industry term for the percentage of new-car buyers who select a given vehicle option during purchase. It implies that buyers are returning to manual gearboxes out of choice, a conscious movement back to an earlier, more primitive technology. Autoblog even went so far as to say that car buyers are "falling back in love" with manual transmissions.

It's a nice thought, and I wish it were true. But it doesn't follow what's actually happening. More bluntly: If this is anything other than a statistical blip, I'll eat my hat.

Before we go any further, let's take a look at the numbers cited. USA Today says that:
... in the first quarter of this year, manuals were in 6.5% of new vehicles sold, and that's getting close to double each of the past five years. It's also highest since 7.2% in 2006, according to Edmunds.com.
That high "take rate," as the industry calls it, is even more impressive because just 19% of the 2,360 different models on sale offer manuals, Edmunds.com reports. Five years ago, 29% of the 2,391 available styles did — yet only 2.9% were sold with stick shifts that year, the lowest "take rate" in a decade.

The story also lists historic manual take rates, though it doesn't specify the market in question. (I'm assuming it's America.)
Edmunds.com calculated the "take rate" of manuals for Drive On. The 2012 calculation is for the first quarter of the year. The others are full-year:

2012 - 6.5%,
2011 - 3.8%,
2010 - 3.9%,
2009 - 4.4%,
2008 - 3.7%,
2007 - 2.9%,
2006 - 7.2%,
2005 - 6.7%,
2004 - 5.5%,
2004 - 5.5%,
2003 - 8.2%,
2002 - 8.5%.

So we have one year's [actually one quarter's] worth of numbers that indicate a small percentage of people have moved back toward manual transmissions. We even have a bit of context: The story compares shrinking manuals on offer (fewer cars are available with manuals now than a few years ago) and tries to convince you, via a few bullet-pointed arguments -- topics such as price, performance, driver habit -- that this is something people are doing consciously.

Perhaps. But I doubt it. To paraphrase an old saw, there are lies, damn lies and journalist interpretations of sales figures for mass-produced automobiles. It would be stupid to pretend the 2012 number wasn't real, but it's also foolish to read too much into it. Manual-transmission sales have been falling for years, and a slight rise in that fall shouldn't be news. [...]
http://editorial.autos.msn.com/blogs/autosblogpost.aspx?post=af1dd966-f8f7-4ff5-90d0-2ca73dbca440

Note: 1) The data from Edmunds fluctuates 'wildly' from year to year: it went up in 2005 & 2006 but dropped to a multi-year low in 2007 [it makes me wonder the accurary of the data or the methodology used];
2) we are talking about 15-16m annual auto sales before 2008; it is less than 14m in 2011 IIRC;
3) don't take it personal if you want an honest discussion;
4) I also dream of one day every TOVer will be satisfied, but I'm also realistic enough to see that can be as far away as fantasy land;
5) I don't actually look for a rebuttal, I search for the USA Today article for the statistics.
atomiclightbulb
Profile for atomiclightbulb
Re: dropping the EX-L i4 with 6MT... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-08-2012 19:30
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DCR wrote:
That was one thing I wish I could have avoided when I had my 2009 V6 6MT. I would gladly trade for an Si-style black cloth interior in there.


I prefer cloth too. Cloth seats hold better IMO, and they don't burn you in the summer.

TXsalesguy wrote:
You certainly don't see it from the sales perspective. Management recently gave us a bonus for selling any of our manual Accords. You'd be surprised at the number of people that come to look at a Civic Si and walk away disappointed because it is only in a manual. Folks don't know how to drive manuals anymore.


I'm actually a bit excited that Honda is bucking the trend here. Toyota has dropped manuals completely from the Camry as far as I can tell, and I saw in another thread that Hyundai has done the same with the Sonata.

If Honda is the only game in town offering a 6MT in a mid-size sedan, they might snag some sales. I see the 9G Accord as something that might prove a very worthy successor to my aging 7G, which is a K24+5MT.

It is really a shame that people don't want to drive a manual automobile anymore. Modern clutch pedals aren't that heavy in an I4 car. Certainly the 7G's clutch pedal is feathery light compared to the 5G's pedal. In stop 'n go traffic I don't find it a problem at all. Manuals are fun to drive and help keep the driver's focus on driving too.
TXsalesguy
Profile for TXsalesguy
Re: dropping the EX-L i4 with 6MT... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-09-2012 11:23
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atomiclightbulb wrote:
DCR wrote:
That was one thing I wish I could have avoided when I had my 2009 V6 6MT. I would gladly trade for an Si-style black cloth interior in there.


I prefer cloth too. Cloth seats hold better IMO, and they don't burn you in the summer.

TXsalesguy wrote:
You certainly don't see it from the sales perspective. Management recently gave us a bonus for selling any of our manual Accords. You'd be surprised at the number of people that come to look at a Civic Si and walk away disappointed because it is only in a manual. Folks don't know how to drive manuals anymore.


I'm actually a bit excited that Honda is bucking the trend here. Toyota has dropped manuals completely from the Camry as far as I can tell, and I saw in another thread that Hyundai has done the same with the Sonata.

If Honda is the only game in town offering a 6MT in a mid-size sedan, they might snag some sales. I see the 9G Accord as something that might prove a very worthy successor to my aging 7G, which is a K24+5MT.

It is really a shame that people don't want to drive a manual automobile anymore. Modern clutch pedals aren't that heavy in an I4 car. Certainly the 7G's clutch pedal is feathery light compared to the 5G's pedal. In stop 'n go traffic I don't find it a problem at all. Manuals are fun to drive and help keep the driver's focus on driving too.



It's not the clutch as much as the lack of hands. If one is steering with the knee while sipping the starbucks and applying mascara (provided they aren't texting too), there aren't enough hands left over to move that darn stick.
Rgist85
Profile for Rgist85
Re: dropping the EX-L i4 with 6MT... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-10-2012 01:09
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atomiclightbulb wrote:
DCR wrote:
That was one thing I wish I could have avoided when I had my 2009 V6 6MT. I would gladly trade for an Si-style black cloth interior in there.


I prefer cloth too. Cloth seats hold better IMO, and they don't burn you in the summer.

TXsalesguy wrote:
You certainly don't see it from the sales perspective. Management recently gave us a bonus for selling any of our manual Accords. You'd be surprised at the number of people that come to look at a Civic Si and walk away disappointed because it is only in a manual. Folks don't know how to drive manuals anymore.


I'm actually a bit excited that Honda is bucking the trend here. Toyota has dropped manuals completely from the Camry as far as I can tell, and I saw in another thread that Hyundai has done the same with the Sonata.

If Honda is the only game in town offering a 6MT in a mid-size sedan, they might snag some sales. I see the 9G Accord as something that might prove a very worthy successor to my aging 7G, which is a K24+5MT.

It is really a shame that people don't want to drive a manual automobile anymore. Modern clutch pedals aren't that heavy in an I4 car. Certainly the 7G's clutch pedal is feathery light compared to the 5G's pedal. In stop 'n go traffic I don't find it a problem at all. Manuals are fun to drive and help keep the driver's focus on driving too.




Agreed atomic, I get into my 07 EX-L 5spd every morning and drive my 40 minute commute to school, you can't beat the stick shift in my Accord, its smooth and precise and though I feel my Accord is a bit underpowered at times, its still a lot of fun driving it.

I'm glad that at least the EX model will have the stick option again, I could live with the EX as long as its got bluetooth and satellite radio, but I still got my eye on the new Fusion too, Ford plans to offer the Fusion SE with the manual transmission available with every option. That's probably a class exclusive.
Power Of Dreams
Profile for Power Of Dreams
Re: dropping the EX-L i4 with 6MT... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-13-2012 19:27
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The Accord V6 EX sans leather is basically an LX with alloy wheels anyways.

Just my hunch, but I'd assume an EX four-cylinder in this generation will mean leather.
TXsalesguy
Profile for TXsalesguy
Re: dropping the EX-L i4 with 6MT... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-14-2012 15:21
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Power Of Dreams wrote:
The Accord V6 EX sans leather is basically an LX with alloy wheels anyways.

Just my hunch, but I'd assume an EX four-cylinder in this generation will mean leather.



EXL = leather. The L has meant leather for some time now on all EXL models, event the RTL in the Ridgeline. The only exception was the EXV6 Accord back in 2005 that was a leather. Honda had an LX V6 back then. In 2006, the designation for the V6 models went to an EXL designation for the leather models.

So, I doubt your theory holds water. EX is traditionally the model where you get sunroof and alloys, but with lower trims getting alloys (LXP, SE, on sedan, LXS on the coupe) this designation is not as clear anymore. Currently the EX gets the 17" alloys, upgraded trim, sunroof, 6disc CD, rear AC vents among other upgrades. I think this will be similar with the 2013 with the exception of the 6dis changer. That is going by the wayside.
TheGandalf
Profile for TheGandalf
Re: dropping the EX-L i4 with 6MT... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-14-2012 16:42
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Rgist85 wrote:
atomiclightbulb wrote:
DCR wrote:
That was one thing I wish I could have avoided when I had my 2009 V6 6MT. I would gladly trade for an Si-style black cloth interior in there.


I prefer cloth too. Cloth seats hold better IMO, and they don't burn you in the summer.

TXsalesguy wrote:
You certainly don't see it from the sales perspective. Management recently gave us a bonus for selling any of our manual Accords. You'd be surprised at the number of people that come to look at a Civic Si and walk away disappointed because it is only in a manual. Folks don't know how to drive manuals anymore.


I'm actually a bit excited that Honda is bucking the trend here. Toyota has dropped manuals completely from the Camry as far as I can tell, and I saw in another thread that Hyundai has done the same with the Sonata.

If Honda is the only game in town offering a 6MT in a mid-size sedan, they might snag some sales. I see the 9G Accord as something that might prove a very worthy successor to my aging 7G, which is a K24+5MT.

It is really a shame that people don't want to drive a manual automobile anymore. Modern clutch pedals aren't that heavy in an I4 car. Certainly the 7G's clutch pedal is feathery light compared to the 5G's pedal. In stop 'n go traffic I don't find it a problem at all. Manuals are fun to drive and help keep the driver's focus on driving too.




Agreed atomic, I get into my 07 EX-L 5spd every morning and drive my 40 minute commute to school, you can't beat the stick shift in my Accord, its smooth and precise and though I feel my Accord is a bit underpowered at times, its still a lot of fun driving it.

I'm glad that at least the EX model will have the stick option again, I could live with the EX as long as its got bluetooth and satellite radio, but I still got my eye on the new Fusion too, Ford plans to offer the Fusion SE with the manual transmission available with every option. That's probably a class exclusive.



I am not totally sure the fusion (which I am also considering in the Titanium trim) will indeed offer a manual in all the trims.
The current configurator has a disclaimer that it's for market research and that some combination might not be available once the car is released.

You then have the problem of finding the manuals at the dealership. In my experience very few manuals are added since the majority of people choose the automatic variants.
That has let me wanting for a manual a couple of times in the past, even though they were theoritically available.
benbess
Profile for benbess
Re: dropping the EX-L i4 with 6MT... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-14-2012 19:32
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I had to special order my 2008 EXL navi manual. It took about 2 months for them to build it and ship it out to my dealer, but it was worth the wait for getting just what I wanted.
ClementZ
Profile for ClementZ
Re: dropping the EX-L i4 with 6MT... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-19-2012 14:29
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I actually don't really care for leather actually.
I don't see why people prefer that to cloth.
Leather gets sticky, especially in summer when I'm driving around with shorts.

Meh. I'm just happy I can get a 6MT in a sedan.
Rgist85
Profile for Rgist85
Re: dropping the EX-L i4 with 6MT... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-20-2012 01:51
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TheGandalf wrote:
Rgist85 wrote:
atomiclightbulb wrote:
DCR wrote:
That was one thing I wish I could have avoided when I had my 2009 V6 6MT. I would gladly trade for an Si-style black cloth interior in there.


I prefer cloth too. Cloth seats hold better IMO, and they don't burn you in the summer.

TXsalesguy wrote:
You certainly don't see it from the sales perspective. Management recently gave us a bonus for selling any of our manual Accords. You'd be surprised at the number of people that come to look at a Civic Si and walk away disappointed because it is only in a manual. Folks don't know how to drive manuals anymore.


I'm actually a bit excited that Honda is bucking the trend here. Toyota has dropped manuals completely from the Camry as far as I can tell, and I saw in another thread that Hyundai has done the same with the Sonata.

If Honda is the only game in town offering a 6MT in a mid-size sedan, they might snag some sales. I see the 9G Accord as something that might prove a very worthy successor to my aging 7G, which is a K24+5MT.

It is really a shame that people don't want to drive a manual automobile anymore. Modern clutch pedals aren't that heavy in an I4 car. Certainly the 7G's clutch pedal is feathery light compared to the 5G's pedal. In stop 'n go traffic I don't find it a problem at all. Manuals are fun to drive and help keep the driver's focus on driving too.




Agreed atomic, I get into my 07 EX-L 5spd every morning and drive my 40 minute commute to school, you can't beat the stick shift in my Accord, its smooth and precise and though I feel my Accord is a bit underpowered at times, its still a lot of fun driving it.

I'm glad that at least the EX model will have the stick option again, I could live with the EX as long as its got bluetooth and satellite radio, but I still got my eye on the new Fusion too, Ford plans to offer the Fusion SE with the manual transmission available with every option. That's probably a class exclusive.



I am not totally sure the fusion (which I am also considering in the Titanium trim) will indeed offer a manual in all the trims.
The current configurator has a disclaimer that it's for market research and that some combination might not be available once the car is released.

You then have the problem of finding the manuals at the dealership. In my experience very few manuals are added since the majority of people choose the automatic variants.
That has let me wanting for a manual a couple of times in the past, even though they were theoritically available.




The order guides for the 2013 Fusion (and Focus) are out...Ford is expanding the availability of the manual transmission on those two cars in particular...you can order the Fusion with a manual transmission and even get Navigation and just about every option available on the automatic models (sans the self parking feature) Preliminary pricing for the Fusion is up when you configure the Fusion now too. You'll be able to order the Fusion SE with any number of packages, but the Titanium will be auto only :( The Focus in SE and Titanium trims will continue to be offered with a 5spd manual...the SEL Focus is dead for 2013.
ezshift5
Profile for ezshift5
Re: dropping the EX-L i4 with 6MT... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-25-2012 15:03
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...........folks just don't know how to drive a manual..............

Sort of sad to this sailor. And what some folks do to fill up the space provided by the automatic transmission borders on self destruction: texting, cel use, facial work, liquid assimilation (well you get the picture)

ez
timp64
Profile for timp64
Re: dropping the EX-L i4 with 6MT... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-03-2012 10:03
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Last time we bought a new car leather was something we absolutely didn't want. After having a 2005 accord exl v6, then a 2007 exl odyssey we decided leather was not for us. I still own a 2003 ex 5mt accord and I love the cloth seats in it. They still look the same as the day I purchased it. The leather seats started cracking in both of the leather vehicles before trading them in. We now own a 2011 ex auto with cloth seats and wont go back to leather. The only disadvantage with going with cloth over leather is missing out on the gadgets, and yes we wish we had the gadgets but prefer cloth better.
I still prefer to have a manual transmission but finding an ex manual accord can be pretty difficult. Depending on fuel economy on this new accord I might get one in the next year or two to replace my 2003 accord, if not a civic is going to.
 
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