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6SPDTL
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The only integra that was a drivers car was the GS-R. Honda may have sold 2 thousand GSR's total. The regular integra which sold 50 times more was a glorified civic too, it was slow and had ok handling, nothing more nothing else. The ILX is also a glorified civic with luxurious appointments and a more comfy ride. GET OVER IT.
If the car sells, Honda might consider making a hot version like the GSR, till then I think thats enough whinning.
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330R
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You're sick of hearing Honda enthusiasts on a Honda enthusiast website complain about the continued dearth of enthusiast Hondas? Sorry, but I have to say, YOU GET OVER IT.
The GS-R was certainly a driver's car, but it wasn't the only Integra that was, and they certainly sold more than 2000 examples. I wouldn't be surprised if I've seen 2000 GS-R swapped Civics. You're forgetting (or meant) the Integra Type-R, which sold 3900 over 4 years of limited availability in the US.
A few people keep talking about the Integra, RSX, and now ILX all being glorifed Civics. In speaking of the Integra, at least (I guess you'll just have to cover your eyes now), the Civic roots were never a problem. If anything, it was a testament to how good the fundamentals were; to how good the Civic platform was, and that it could be taken farther and seem like a different car. When the 1994 Integra GS-R debuted, "platform" talk wasn't as pervasive as it is these days. One can't escape it anymore. There are no secrets, and manufacturers volunteer the information, maybe so the shareholders can rest easier that expenses are being spared. What made it apparent the Civic and Integra were related was how Integra parts swapped right over onto the Civic, for better (mods!) or worse (theft!).
Compared to today's Civic/ILX platform, the old Civic/Integra platform is pasta. Chassis rigidity is far, far improved. The beautiful double wishbones are gone, but thanks to technology, trial & error, improvements, time, H/A has Macpherson struts that work well enough, if still noticeable on rough, uneven pavement. But the ILX appears to have been tuned for and targeted toward, as you said, a comfy ride.
"If the car sells, Honda might consider..." is the totally wrong approach in what I don't think is reaching to say, a lot of people's opinion. Acura needs excitement in a bad way. H/A repeatedly fail to realize the importance of offering an appealing product immediately at launch, not later at the MMC if ever.
Also, people keep bringing up the upcoming ED engines. What makes people so confident that any of those engines will offer a real performance variant, say in the vain of the dearly departed K20Z3? I don't share that confidence, I'm sorry to say. It's going to take seeing it to believe it. I guess people are banking on direct injection and the reported 10% power increases as indicators that one or two enthusiast engines will come. That would be nice, but what I think will happen is the displacement going down for a given car, so a 2.4 ED engine will be more powerful than the current K24, but the smallest car to get one would be the Accord, for instance. We'll see what happens with that.
As for the whining, I think for the "whining" to stop, one of two things needs to happen: 1. Honda caves and makes an actual appealing product for the people they used to make appealing products for, or 2. Those people leave Temple of VTEC and Honda.
If you're a Honda fan, which of the two would you rather have happen? A great product, or great owners/fans leaving - a grave sign of dilluted product and dilluted character.
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Powered by Honda
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Sex
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6SPDTL
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Do you know as a fact that a Performance version is not in the cards? Answer is NO!. The integra had a whole gen before a hot version was introduced. Take this car for what it is the modern iteration of the plain jane integra. A hot version will hang upon how this car will sell, which I think is that it wont sell bad at all! As to hot versions o cars, face it they are dead, 95% of young drivers dont even know what a clutch is for!
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Chocs
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6SPDTL wrote:
95% of young drivers dont even know what a clutch is for!
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I feel quite proud to be in the remaining 5% \o/
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FiSH-Chan
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6SPDTL wrote:
A hot version will hang upon how this car will sell, which I think is that it wont sell bad at all!
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This.
| As to hot versions o cars, face it they are dead, 95% of young drivers dont even know what a clutch is for! |
Maybe only in the US and UK and some other country.
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ipribadi
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Well a hot version doesn't have to be MT. You can't deny there is a hunger and thirst for sporty handling and power which the younger crowd yearns.
Anyway, as to ur point, yes I agree Honda/Acura can still release a hot ILX if the market responds well.
How was it with the Integra?
Did it need sales of 4000+/mo before Honda released the GTR?
On the contrary to the OP, the GTR proved what such a strong halo the GTR trim can do for a product.
Yes the base Integra was a glorified Civic, but the GTR trim earned Acura a much needed performance image back then.
I think they should do a serious ILX TypeS, even if it sells less than 100/mo.
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FiSH-Chan
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ipribadi wrote:
Well a hot version doesn't have to be MT. You can't deny there is a hunger and thirst for sporty handling and power which the younger crowd yearns.
Anyway, as to ur point, yes I agree Honda/Acura can still release a hot ILX if the market responds well.
How was it with the Integra?
Did it need sales of 4000+/mo before Honda released the GTR?
On the contrary to the OP, the GTR proved what such a strong halo the GTR trim can do for a product.
Yes the base Integra was a glorified Civic, but the GTR trim earned Acura a much needed performance image back then.
I think they should do a serious ILX TypeS, even if it sells less than 100/mo.
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Do you mean the GSR or the Type R.
I think they should do enthusiast versions, but they are at a point the 'old' tech is too 'old', even if it can be still be used, we just have to wait and see if they make or break. If a company throw their perfectly good tech away and make it obsolete to move way for the next gen tech, then they are either very confident or very stupid. We will see which?
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CarPhreakD
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FiSH-Chan wrote:
ipribadi wrote:
Well a hot version doesn't have to be MT. You can't deny there is a hunger and thirst for sporty handling and power which the younger crowd yearns.
Anyway, as to ur point, yes I agree Honda/Acura can still release a hot ILX if the market responds well.
How was it with the Integra?
Did it need sales of 4000+/mo before Honda released the GTR?
On the contrary to the OP, the GTR proved what such a strong halo the GTR trim can do for a product.
Yes the base Integra was a glorified Civic, but the GTR trim earned Acura a much needed performance image back then.
I think they should do a serious ILX TypeS, even if it sells less than 100/mo.
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Do you mean the GSR or the Type R.
I think they should do enthusiast versions, but they are at a point the 'old' tech is too 'old', even if it can be still be used, we just have to wait and see if they make or break. If a company throw their perfectly good tech away and make it obsolete to move way for the next gen tech, then they are either very confident or very stupid. We will see which?
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The problem is that the characteristics of the ED engines will be entirely different from performance oriented engines like the K20. In actuality, none of these recent ICE engines are really the same anymore... turbo engines are increasingly turning the ICE into an efficient, boring diesel-like device; the Japanese seem to be turning to hybridization to complement the engine.
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Powered by Honda
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CarPhreakD wrote:
FiSH-Chan wrote:
ipribadi wrote:
Well a hot version doesn't have to be MT. You can't deny there is a hunger and thirst for sporty handling and power which the younger crowd yearns.
Anyway, as to ur point, yes I agree Honda/Acura can still release a hot ILX if the market responds well.
How was it with the Integra?
Did it need sales of 4000+/mo before Honda released the GTR?
On the contrary to the OP, the GTR proved what such a strong halo the GTR trim can do for a product.
Yes the base Integra was a glorified Civic, but the GTR trim earned Acura a much needed performance image back then.
I think they should do a serious ILX TypeS, even if it sells less than 100/mo.
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Do you mean the GSR or the Type R.
I think they should do enthusiast versions, but they are at a point the 'old' tech is too 'old', even if it can be still be used, we just have to wait and see if they make or break. If a company throw their perfectly good tech away and make it obsolete to move way for the next gen tech, then they are either very confident or very stupid. We will see which?
|
The problem is that the characteristics of the ED engines will be entirely different from performance oriented engines like the K20. In actuality, none of these recent ICE engines are really the same anymore... turbo engines are increasingly turning the ICE into an efficient, boring diesel-like device; the Japanese seem to be turning to hybridization to complement the engine.
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Drove a good customers 2012 550i xdrive. Man that thing sounds like a diesel when I first start it and listen to it idle. After about 5-10min its quieter.
CLACK CLACK CLACK CLICK CLICK CLACK. sounds cheap and shitty but I guess it b/c treating the gasoline engine like a diesel with electric valves doing the sounds with direct inject?
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FiSH-Chan
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CarPhreakD wrote:
The problem is that the characteristics of the ED engines will be entirely different from performance oriented engines like the K20. In actuality, none of these recent ICE engines are really the same anymore... turbo engines are increasingly turning the ICE into an efficient, boring diesel-like device; the Japanese seem to be turning to hybridization to complement the engine.
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Well, I think we see how they make the hybridization thing and see how it goes. At least they don't go the easy way with diesel. Honestly, if everything goes the way it is, I just cannot see myself getting a car with conventional ICE anymore. In fact the CRZ seems more fit for people like me if I can afford it, or whatever the new version of that is. Or hydrogen later on. I would not have spent money for something like a Type R taking into consideration the future and other things but this is just me of course (unless I win the lottery or someohow inherit huge amount of money).
Also, are we sure that the ED engines preview are all there is from Honda? Or are they keeping some good stuff for later. If that is all they have it seems a pretty bad decision to just show everything they have at once.
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6SPDTL
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NO, it took 7 years, thats the point. Moaning about the GTR is pretending that was the only integra (rsx) that ever sold! The other less than sporting versions were bread and butter and sold hundreds of thousands. THe fact that the ILX doesnt have a real sport version out of the gate means exactly squat to whether it will sell or not! Thats the point... If someone is hard up for a real performance entry luxury car, there is always the BMW 1 series which will only cost 47K if you want a radio, heated seats and a garage door opener. NIce price aint it?
BTW I'm not saying I think the ILX is a great car, it isnt, but neither was the integra, comprende???
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integrator
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Even the less sporty G3 versions of the Integra (the RS, LS, GS, SE) all were great in the twisties, still has sexy sheetmetal and leading feature content for the time, AND had more powerful engines than Civic that were smooth as silk. They were still great cars, even if they didn't have the 8k rpm redline. And FYI, the GSR was more than a couple thousand in sales. It was the ITR that only sold that many - it was very exclusive and difficult to find. The ILX wont even come close to the Integras overall abilities (even its lesser trim levels). You're fooling yourself if you think that...and apparently tons of Integra owners and fans STILL agree that it was great. Will ILX have such following? Keep drinking Mendel's Koolaid, and be satisfied with the crap he's peddling. But this is an enthusiast site.
@330R - exactly correct.
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ClementZ
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330R wrote:
You're sick of hearing Honda enthusiasts on a Honda enthusiast website complain about the continued dearth of enthusiast Hondas? Sorry, but I have to say, YOU GET OVER IT.
The GS-R was certainly a driver's car, but it wasn't the only Integra that was, and they certainly sold more than 2000 examples. I wouldn't be surprised if I've seen 2000 GS-R swapped Civics. You're forgetting (or meant) the Integra Type-R, which sold 3900 over 4 years of limited availability in the US.
A few people keep talking about the Integra, RSX, and now ILX all being glorifed Civics. In speaking of the Integra, at least (I guess you'll just have to cover your eyes now), the Civic roots were never a problem. If anything, it was a testament to how good the fundamentals were; to how good the Civic platform was, and that it could be taken farther and seem like a different car. When the 1994 Integra GS-R debuted, "platform" talk wasn't as pervasive as it is these days. One can't escape it anymore. There are no secrets, and manufacturers volunteer the information, maybe so the shareholders can rest easier that expenses are being spared. What made it apparent the Civic and Integra were related was how Integra parts swapped right over onto the Civic, for better (mods!) or worse (theft!).
Compared to today's Civic/ILX platform, the old Civic/Integra platform is pasta. Chassis rigidity is far, far improved. The beautiful double wishbones are gone, but thanks to technology, trial & error, improvements, time, H/A has Macpherson struts that work well enough, if still noticeable on rough, uneven pavement. But the ILX appears to have been tuned for and targeted toward, as you said, a comfy ride.
"If the car sells, Honda might consider..." is the totally wrong approach in what I don't think is reaching to say, a lot of people's opinion. Acura needs excitement in a bad way. H/A repeatedly fail to realize the importance of offering an appealing product immediately at launch, not later at the MMC if ever.
Also, people keep bringing up the upcoming ED engines. What makes people so confident that any of those engines will offer a real performance variant, say in the vain of the dearly departed K20Z3? I don't share that confidence, I'm sorry to say. It's going to take seeing it to believe it. I guess people are banking on direct injection and the reported 10% power increases as indicators that one or two enthusiast engines will come. That would be nice, but what I think will happen is the displacement going down for a given car, so a 2.4 ED engine will be more powerful than the current K24, but the smallest car to get one would be the Accord, for instance. We'll see what happens with that.
As for the whining, I think for the "whining" to stop, one of two things needs to happen: 1. Honda caves and makes an actual appealing product for the people they used to make appealing products for, or 2. Those people leave Temple of VTEC and Honda.
If you're a Honda fan, which of the two would you rather have happen? A great product, or great owners/fans leaving - a grave sign of dilluted product and dilluted character.
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Acura doesn't need a performance car.
Honda screwed themselves over by initially giving Acura "driver's cars"
And this, is what OP is complaining about.
Because Acura used to sell the Integra, people expect Acura to continue to sell Integras. And this isn't the message Acura wants, which is why they axed the Integra initially.
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330R
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ClementZ wrote:
Acura doesn't need a performance car.
Honda screwed themselves over by initially giving Acura "driver's cars"
And this, is what OP is complaining about.
Because Acura used to sell the Integra, people expect Acura to continue to sell Integras. And this isn't the message Acura wants, which is why they axed the Integra initially.
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What you've envisioned as Acura already exists as Lincoln. A pseudo-somewhat-lux car company with not much in the performance car category (TL SH-AWD 6MT?). There's a lot about your post I disagree with, greatly. But instead of really getting into all that - where Acura would be if the Integra hadn't been introduced in 1986 alongside the Legend and sold for 15 years, would they have even survived, what about the NSX (another performance car sold as an Acura, obviously) - I'll just reiterate how I've felt about Acura all along. They could vanish tomorrow for all I care. Just fold the product (minus ZDX) into the Honda mothership. I never once needed the help/marketing/brainwashing that a different, supposed luxury/smart luxury brand or badge provides to folks to make them spring for that more expensive model made by the _same_ people.
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330R
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^ I should have the 4th gen Integra (RSX) join the other three in my 15 year sales count, so add another 5 to make 20.
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NealX
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TSX69 wrote:
Acura's Smaller, Cheaper ILX Compact on Sale Today
"It will create a new segment," Michael Accavitti, VP of marketing for Acura in the U.S.
Accavitti says the new car won't downsize the Acura image, rather it's a return to the "sweet spot" carved out by the Integra when Acura was young. "We continue to look at Acura as the luxury brand it was created to be, an alternative to BMW and Audi and Infiniti."
We wonder why, though, if they wanted to revive our warm feelings for the old Integra, they didn't just revive the name for the new car.
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