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TOV Forums > Today's Reading Links > > Re: NEW SENTRA!

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Powered by Honda
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Re: NEW SENTRA!    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-27-2012 20:04
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DrWhiner wrote:
pbh, so what's the current 'super car' for the BMW brand???

Does it have enough 'street cred', in your mind?



bmw has the best entry luxury car in the world: 3 series. BTW that was not my comment it was one of my technicians. Who btw owns 2 bmws....yet he dismissed mitsu for not having any.

I guess BMW's hertiage is a enough for a seal of approval.

M6 is kinda a super car.
Powered by Honda
Profile for Powered by Honda
Re: NEW SENTRA!    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-27-2012 20:11
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2013 M6

560 hp and 502 lb-ft V8....last gen M6 has a V10 which Lambo uses in the gaylordaro.

0-60 in 4.2seconds. Sounds like a supercar.

2005 Lambo galarado does 0-60 in 4.1! haha
BachelorFrog
Profile for BachelorFrog
Re: NEW SENTRA!    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-27-2012 20:37
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atomiclightbulb wrote:
BachelorFrog wrote:
atomiclightbulb wrote:
BachelorFrog wrote:
Although GTR went on sale on 6thDec'07, the hype was good enough for ~200K more sales in 2007 than in 2006.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation

"correlation proves causation, is a logical fallacy by which two events that occur together are claimed to have a cause-and-effect relationship. The fallacy is also known as cum hoc ergo propter hoc (Latin for "with this, therefore because of this") and false cause. It is a common fallacy in which it is assumed that because two things or events occur together, one must be the cause of the other."


You look anyway way you want,


You can say whatever you want. It doesn't change the fact that your claims are based on a glaring logical fallacy.


Dunno what u are trying to prove? You seem very delusional. I gave you two very different examples and yet you are still ignoring the facts.
Face it man, Honda's image in enthusiasts mind is declining. Enthusiasts dont want a race driven company like Honda to give up their sporty cars for turds.
I dont think I need to explain again why Nissan is so high on success atm.
Harvey Jr
Profile for Harvey Jr
Re: NEW SENTRA!    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-27-2012 21:55
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BachelorFrog wrote:

I dont think I need to explain again why Nissan is so high on success atm.



You sure don't. Just cruise by your local rental car facility, and you'll see how many cars they've had to whore out to keep afloat.

Chocs
Profile for Chocs
Re: NEW SENTRA!    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-27-2012 22:05
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These statistics indicate that the better your Maths score is at grade 8, child mortality becomes less likely. As you can see, Japan is extremely crowded because children at grade 8 are high achievers in Maths.

On the other hand, babies die more often in the UK and US because their grade 8 children didn't score as high in the international TIMSS test.

Gapminder link


^This is probably the logical fallacy atomic is trying to point out.
BachelorFrog wrote:
atomiclightbulb wrote:
BachelorFrog wrote:
atomiclightbulb wrote:
BachelorFrog wrote:
Although GTR went on sale on 6thDec'07, the hype was good enough for ~200K more sales in 2007 than in 2006.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation

"correlation proves causation, is a logical fallacy by which two events that occur together are claimed to have a cause-and-effect relationship. The fallacy is also known as cum hoc ergo propter hoc (Latin for "with this, therefore because of this") and false cause. It is a common fallacy in which it is assumed that because two things or events occur together, one must be the cause of the other."


You look anyway way you want,


You can say whatever you want. It doesn't change the fact that your claims are based on a glaring logical fallacy.


Dunno what u are trying to prove? You seem very delusional. I gave you two very different examples and yet you are still ignoring the facts.
Face it man, Honda's image in enthusiasts mind is declining. Enthusiasts dont want a race driven company like Honda to give up their sporty cars for turds.
I dont think I need to explain again why Nissan is so high on success atm.


CarPhreakD
Profile for CarPhreakD
Re: NEW SENTRA!    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-28-2012 11:27
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If you pull the legs of a flea, yell at it to jump and it sits there doing nothing, you can logically conclude that pulling the legs off a flea makes it deaf.

Right?
Powered by Honda
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Re: NEW SENTRA!    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-28-2012 11:52
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stop this bs! Its ruining my beautiful thread.


Lets continue talking about how the GTR is the best and how Honda is not.
DrWhiner
Profile for DrWhiner
Re: NEW SENTRA!    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-28-2012 13:31
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BachelorFrog wrote:
DrWhiner wrote:
pbh, so what's the current 'super car' for the BMW brand???

Does it have enough 'street cred', in your mind?


BMW has M and that speaks a lot.


pbh, BachelorFrog:
Does BMW have a supercar?

According to BMW's M product manager, sort of (in another word: not really, until, perhaps next year):
' “A lot of people come to me and ask, does M need a supercar? We’ve had the choice to do something like that that when we were planning the 1-Series M Coupe. Amongst its development, we all pondered: do we do a supercar as in a mid-engined wedge, or some super high-priced front-engined wedge?,” said Russell. “We’ve discussed these possibilities. But ultimately, we didn’t feel the need to make a very exclusive high-end supercar and we still don’t. I already firmly believe that we produce supercars, except that they’re two in one: an executive car with supercar performance. They are the essence of BMW M-Cars.'

The M-cars, in essence, are "BMW's supercars", but they still have not reached the status of those mid-engined or super high-priced front-engined supercars yet.
WongKN
Profile for WongKN
Re: NEW SENTRA!    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-28-2012 23:57
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Powered by Honda wrote:
stop this bs! Its ruining my beautiful thread.

Lets continue talking about how the GTR is the best and how Honda is not.



What I can see is that this thread is very US-centric. I believe the R35 is the very first Skyline GT-R you guys are getting in the U.S. But it is worthwhile to bear in mind that for many parts of the world, the GT-R has a constant presence, and the most legendary of its generations are the R32, R33 and R34. The GT-R is a name highly respect and admired by supercar enthusiasts, in fact by basically any car enthusiast. Despite what might or might not be the case in the U.S., the -fact- is that the GT-R, maybe even more than the NSX, has been accepted as the highest performance supercar from Japan for many years. So while it is true that everyone is entitled to his or her own opinions, it would be sad if we in TOV does not respect the iconic name that is the Nissan Skyline GT-R. One may not like what the R35 is, but the bottom line is that the R35 -is- extremely significant and extremely respected and revered in Japan and in the whole of Asia where the GT-R name is considered sacred.
superchg2
Profile for superchg2
Re: NEW SENTRA!    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-29-2012 00:38
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WongKN wrote:
Powered by Honda wrote:
stop this bs! Its ruining my beautiful thread.

Lets continue talking about how the GTR is the best and how Honda is not.



What I can see is that this thread is very US-centric. I believe the R35 is the very first Skyline GT-R you guys are getting in the U.S. But it is worthwhile to bear in mind that for many parts of the world, the GT-R has a constant presence, and the most legendary of its generations are the R32, R33 and R34. The GT-R is a name highly respect and admired by supercar enthusiasts, in fact by basically any car enthusiast. Despite what might or might not be the case in the U.S., the -fact- is that the GT-R, maybe even more than the NSX, has been accepted as the highest performance supercar from Japan for many years. So while it is true that everyone is entitled to his or her own opinions, it would be sad if we in TOV does not respect the iconic name that is the Nissan Skyline GT-R. One may not like what the R35 is, but the bottom line is that the R35 -is- extremely significant and extremely respected and revered in Japan and in the whole of Asia where the GT-R name is considered sacred.


I think ours currently would be an R38.

"2012 Nissan
GT-R Premium Coupe
$89,950
3.8L 530hp V6
448 @ 5200 RPM"


DrWhiner
Profile for DrWhiner
Re: NEW SENTRA!    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-29-2012 00:57
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WoW!?!

:O
superchg2
Profile for superchg2
Re: NEW SENTRA!    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-29-2012 00:59
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superchg2 wrote:
WongKN wrote:
Powered by Honda wrote:
stop this bs! Its ruining my beautiful thread.

Lets continue talking about how the GTR is the best and how Honda is not.



What I can see is that this thread is very US-centric. I believe the R35 is the very first Skyline GT-R you guys are getting in the U.S. But it is worthwhile to bear in mind that for many parts of the world, the GT-R has a constant presence, and the most legendary of its generations are the R32, R33 and R34. The GT-R is a name highly respect and admired by supercar enthusiasts, in fact by basically any car enthusiast. Despite what might or might not be the case in the U.S., the -fact- is that the GT-R, maybe even more than the NSX, has been accepted as the highest performance supercar from Japan for many years. So while it is true that everyone is entitled to his or her own opinions, it would be sad if we in TOV does not respect the iconic name that is the Nissan Skyline GT-R. One may not like what the R35 is, but the bottom line is that the R35 -is- extremely significant and extremely respected and revered in Japan and in the whole of Asia where the GT-R name is considered sacred.


I think ours currently would be an R38.

"2012 Nissan
GT-R Premium Coupe
$89,950
3.8L 530hp V6
448 @ 5200 RPM"




I stand corrected on this WongKN. I thought the model designation was tied to the engine displacement, but is instead a chassis designation.

From Wilkipedia
"Because of the GT-R's heritage, the chassis code for the all-new version has been called CBA-R35, or 'R35' for short"
WongKN
Profile for WongKN
Re: NEW SENTRA!    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-29-2012 02:12
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No problems. It think it also helps illustrates the fact that the GT-R was never available in the US till the current generation.

The current generation is the R35. Prior to R35; R34 and before, Nissan obeyed the artificial 280ps power ceiling (even if only on paper specs). The engines were 2.5 and 2.6l, RB26DETT for e.g. (26 indicates 2.6 litres, TT stands for twin turbo, assuming I remember correctly, from R33 onwards.) It is true the GT-R was growing bigger and 'dumber' (as in unweildy) as the generation progressed but power kept constant at 280ps. When my friend, a GT-R freak, got his R34, he jokingly challenged me to a drag race, me using my DA6 1.6l 'VTEC-Turbo' against his brand new completely stock R34. "It's your only chance of beating my R34 in a drag-race with your little Honda. Once I start modifying it, you won't smell my exhaust smoke", he jokingly taunted me (don't be mistaken, he is a Honda freak as well and it was all in jest).

Most, almost all, GT-Rs are bought to be modified, not kept stock because by the time of R33, the car has grown too big and heavy. But the RB26DETT was built like a tank and by R34 time, people were modifying it to deliver upwards of 700ps. Some even claimed 1000ps (though my tuner, a HKS specialist highly doubts the authenticity of many of the '1000ps' GT-R claims).

What I am hoping for is that we in TOV maintain our dignity and credibility. There -are- legends outside of the Honda world. Honda is not perfect - they are far from perfect. While cars like the NSX, S2000, various Type-Rs are incredible machines and many of us, including me, thinks they are the absolute best in their class, there -are- incredible cars from other manufacturers as well.

The fact is also true the R35 is the most significant JDM supercar from one aspect because it was the first to throw the gaunlet down and challenge the European super-cars at their own level, stock versus stock. Previously it was always some form of excuse based on the 280ps artificial power limit. So japanese supercars were always talked about in superlative terms but always with caverts, about how the 280ps power ultimately limits its performance. No more with the R35 onwards. Unlike the LF-A, it is available. And unlike our NSX, it has ALWAYS been available and offers Nissan fans a rightfully earned bragging rights.

Today, amongst performance car enthusiasts here in Asia, the GT-R is mentioned in the same breath along with the likes of Porsche, Ferrari and Lamborghini when talk goes round to naming the top supercars in the world. Even young girls will say "my dream car is Porsche, Ferrari, GT-R...", sadly VERY RARELY 'NSX'.

I apologise if I throw a damper on the enthusiasm of this thread but I just hope that we in TOV retain our credibility and respect, especially from Honda, when we discuss about cars, like what Honda is best at and what Honda lacks, etc. Part of this is by not disrespecting legends from other makes.
atomiclightbulb
Profile for atomiclightbulb
Re: NEW SENTRA!    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-29-2012 12:54
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BachelorFrog wrote:
Dunno what u are trying to prove? You seem very delusional.


Chocs's post explains exactly what I am talking about. Just because two events occur near each other (correlated events), does not mean one event caused the other.

Several people in this thread know exactly what I am talking about, so please try to understand the argument I am making before resorting to psychological commentary.

WongKN wrote:
What I can see is that this thread is very US-centric. I believe the R35 is the very first Skyline GT-R you guys are getting in the U.S.
...

So while it is true that everyone is entitled to his or her own opinions, it would be sad if we in TOV does not respect the iconic name that is the Nissan Skyline GT-R.


Maybe this is a subtle difference, but I think that "GT-R" is not the same thing as "Skyline GT-R". I don't know much about the "Skyline GT-R", but people I know who are fans of Nissan in the U.S. have always respected the "Skyline GT-R".

"GT-R" seems to be a different line of car to me. I am confused.
BachelorFrog
Profile for BachelorFrog
Re: NEW SENTRA!    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-29-2012 13:26
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atomiclightbulb wrote:
BachelorFrog wrote:
Dunno what u are trying to prove? You seem very delusional.
Chocs's post explains exactly what I am talking about. Just because two events occur near each other (correlated events), does not mean one event caused the other.

Several people in this thread know exactly what I am talking about, so please try to understand the argument I am making before resorting to psychological commentary.

I can give you more than 2 examples where making a halo car really paid them off in boosting sales and gaining respect from enthusiasts. And btw, in some cases, theories doesnt hold water when compare to hard stats.
atomiclightbulb
Profile for atomiclightbulb
Re: NEW SENTRA!    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-29-2012 13:40
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BachelorFrog wrote:
I can give you more than 2 examples where making a halo car really paid them off in boosting sales and gaining respect from enthusiasts. And btw, in some cases, theories doesnt hold water when compare to hard stats.


You're going to have to show some kind of evidence that the GT-R caused customers to go to Nissan dealerships to purchase their mainstream vehicles.

If you can find and link customer survey results showing that customers stated that they bought a mainstream Nissan vehicle like Versa, Altima, etc. because the GT-R made them think that Nissan was a great car company, I would consider that good evidence.

How do you know that it wasn't something else that boosted sales? Harvey already mentioned fleet sales. What about factory incentives? Favorable financing? Good lease deals? Favorable Consumer Reports reviews? How do you know it wasn't the LEAF, and not the GT-R, that got people into showrooms?

There are many many many reasons other than the presence of the GT-R which could explain why Nissan achieved higher sales results.

The vast majority of people who buy mainstream cars are not performance enthusiasts. Most of the people I interact with on a daily basis at work don't even know what a GT-R is.

IntegraDC5R
Profile for IntegraDC5R
Re: NEW SENTRA!    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-29-2012 19:04
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Also need to think about the lack of product for a period of time from both Honda and Toyboat. Nissan was not really hit from the BIG ONE here and then the floods over in Thailand. People that were wanting or needing a new car, may have tried to buy something before their Nissan choice, but would have to wait and maybe couldn't wait. So Nissan's sales went up possibly for this reason more than because of the GT-R. I just can't really fathom people being wooed by a car they can not afford and purchasing something lower down the line just because of it. Though I guess a vast majority ride the sack of those (celebrities) put up on a false pedestal, so it does kind of go hand in hand.
notyper
Profile for notyper
Re: NEW SENTRA!    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-30-2012 02:27
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+1 on recognizing that other OEMs have done some great stuff too.

That said, on the subject of the RB26, I have to say they are not particularly tough engines. Oil pumps are a huge weak point. There are some other lesser issues that you have to address if you plan on making more than 500 hp. In comparison, the 2JZ-GTE Supra engine is exceptionally tough. What the RB26 has that the 2JZ doesn't is incredible rev capacity and awesome throttle response (ITBs stock - on a turbo engine). Very different approaches, but if I was building a massive power motor, I'd choose the 2JZ over the RB26.

Oh, and 1000 hp is quite possible on the RB26. Typically a 2.8 stroker, massive single turbo and about 40+ psi of boost. We've had a couple of high 900 whp examples on the dyno.

SC

WongKN wrote:
But the RB26DETT was built like a tank and by R34 time, people were modifying it to deliver upwards of 700ps. Some even claimed 1000ps (though my tuner, a HKS specialist highly doubts the authenticity of many of the '1000ps' GT-R claims).


WongKN
Profile for WongKN
Re: NEW SENTRA!    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-30-2012 03:44
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atomiclightbulb wrote:
...
Maybe this is a subtle difference, but I think that "GT-R" is not the same thing as "Skyline GT-R". I don't know much about the "Skyline GT-R", but people I know who are fans of Nissan in the U.S. have always respected the "Skyline GT-R".

"GT-R" seems to be a different line of car to me. I am confused.



There are a few grades or variants of the Nissan Skyline. GT-R is the highest performance spec. There is also a GT-R V-Spec. There is also a Skyline GT-S. Perhaps the legend did not transfer well to the U.S. Or perhaps Nissan did not do such a good job in marketing. The Nissan USA website lists a 'Nissan GT-R'. But strictly speaking, GT-R is just a variant tag. Like SiR. Or Type-R. The true legend is the Skyline line moniker. The greatest of the Skyline is the Skyline GT-R. Just like the greatest Civic is the Civic Type-R (from the performance fan point of view). This is not unusual though. For e.g. the very last incarnation of the CR-X -was- called Honda CR-X Del Sol in Japan and all over the world. But in the U.S., AHM calls it Honda Del-Sol from what I remember. So I have read numerous arguements from people insisting that the Del-Sol was not fit to carry the CR-X nameplate. But if you check the official honda.co.jp's history page, you -will- see it as "CR-X Del Sol".

In JDM 'folklore', there are two legendary models, though I would like to think it is three. One is 'hachiroku' (AE86 Toyota Levin). Another is "Aru San Ju San" (R33 Nissan Skyline GT-R, usually also implies V-Spec). It is true that by R34 generation, the legend has been tamed down a bit. But R35, despite its bulk, is still significant in its aforementioned fact that it was probably the first japanese supercar to ignore the 280ps artificial power limit.

Whether or not the Skyline actually encouraged people to buy more Sentra's is not what I am debating about here. It is just the fact that we need to respect the Skyline GT-R name. I am not saying that anyone has shown disrespect though but it is worthwhile to bring it up early. In any case, if we look at it from another angle, Nissan clearly showed that they recognized and respected the legend that they have built and have continued to enhance upon it. Whichever is actually true, whether or not the Skyline GT-R has lead to increased sales of the mundane models, the fact remains that Nissan continued to develop the legend. Sadly, the same cannot be said of my favourite car maker.

If we look at 'hachiroku' and 'aru san ju san', then there is some truth in claiming that yet another cult following is the name 'Taipu Aru' (Type R). And yet, see how our favourite car maker have handle this legend.

DrWhiner
Profile for DrWhiner
Re: NEW SENTRA!    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-30-2012 18:04
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But R35, despite its bulk, is still significant in its aforementioned fact that it was probably the first japanese supercar to ignore the 280ps artificial power limit.

I beg to differ.
I thought it's well-known that the R33 was well-over 276 hp, and quite a few others.
Since 1989, Japanese automakers have all endorsed—at least on paper—a kind of gentlemen's agreement that limited their advertised horsepower to 276 on domestically produced vehicles. Their primary goal was to avoid a horsepower war in a country where the maximum speed limit is 62 mph. But in October, Honda officially broke the agreement at its Legend (Acura RL in the U.S.) press conference when it unveiled the model's 300-hp, 3.5-liter V-6. [...]

Japanese engine designers, however, will readily concede that the country's manufacturers have been building cars with more than 276 horsepower. It's just that none of the automakers wanted to officially break the agreement. It's no secret that Mitsubishi Lancer Evos, Subaru Impreza WRXs, and Nissan 300ZX twin-turbos have been in violation of the agreement for years, but at least in Japan, they all claimed to have 276 horsepower. The false advertising was ignored for the sake of harmony. Not anymore.
http://www.caranddriver.com/news/japan-dumps-276-hp-pact-car-news

P.S. @ALB: according to Wiki:
The Nissan Skyline (スカイライン in Japanese) is a line of compact cars and compact executive cars originally produced by the Japanese premium carmaker Prince Motor Company starting in 1955 and subsequently by Nissan after the two companies merged in 1966. After the merger, the Skyline and its larger counterpart, the Nissan Gloria, were sold in Japan at dealership sales channels called Nissan Prince Shop.
CarPhreakD
Profile for CarPhreakD
Re: NEW SENTRA!    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-30-2012 22:05
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notyper wrote:
+1 on recognizing that other OEMs have done some great stuff too.

That said, on the subject of the RB26, I have to say they are not particularly tough engines. Oil pumps are a huge weak point. There are some other lesser issues that you have to address if you plan on making more than 500 hp. In comparison, the 2JZ-GTE Supra engine is exceptionally tough. What the RB26 has that the 2JZ doesn't is incredible rev capacity and awesome throttle response (ITBs stock - on a turbo engine). Very different approaches, but if I was building a massive power motor, I'd choose the 2JZ over the RB26.

Oh, and 1000 hp is quite possible on the RB26. Typically a 2.8 stroker, massive single turbo and about 40+ psi of boost. We've had a couple of high 900 whp examples on the dyno.

SC

WongKN wrote:
But the RB26DETT was built like a tank and by R34 time, people were modifying it to deliver upwards of 700ps. Some even claimed 1000ps (though my tuner, a HKS specialist highly doubts the authenticity of many of the '1000ps' GT-R claims).





I concur, the Toyota Supra engine is a tank.

When I saw it in person, the one thought that came to my mind is that "this thing is f***ING HUGE!". It's not wonder they can easily take large boost, because the block's size is almost excessive.
CarPhreakD
Profile for CarPhreakD
Re: NEW SENTRA!    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-30-2012 22:12
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WongKN wrote:
Powered by Honda wrote:
stop this bs! Its ruining my beautiful thread.

Lets continue talking about how the GTR is the best and how Honda is not.



What I can see is that this thread is very US-centric. I believe the R35 is the very first Skyline GT-R you guys are getting in the U.S. But it is worthwhile to bear in mind that for many parts of the world, the GT-R has a constant presence, and the most legendary of its generations are the R32, R33 and R34. The GT-R is a name highly respect and admired by supercar enthusiasts, in fact by basically any car enthusiast. Despite what might or might not be the case in the U.S., the -fact- is that the GT-R, maybe even more than the NSX, has been accepted as the highest performance supercar from Japan for many years. So while it is true that everyone is entitled to his or her own opinions, it would be sad if we in TOV does not respect the iconic name that is the Nissan Skyline GT-R. One may not like what the R35 is, but the bottom line is that the R35 -is- extremely significant and extremely respected and revered in Japan and in the whole of Asia where the GT-R name is considered sacred.



Wong, cheesy use of "legend" aside, I think the R32 was probably the best of the bunch. The 33 and 34 were incremental improvements that also grew in weight.

And I'm sorry, but while I'm sure there are a lot of people who talk about the GT-R along the same lines as exotic Italian brands and sports car makers like Porsche, to me the car has always been more of a Corvette fighter. I don't want to sound like a Porsche fanboy or euro-weenie, but their cars offer more than raw performance (all day useability), and they don't seem to suffer from some of the same reliability issues as the GT-Rs.

Anecdotally, in Canada you saw a TON of R32s imported over under the 15 year exemption rule. At least at first. Then you notice that they all disappeared... seems like they have a reputation...
WongKN
Profile for WongKN
Re: NEW SENTRA!    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-30-2012 22:54
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This is nice, talk about other cars here.

About the 280ps (~276hp) power limit. The R35 is the first -supercar- to breach this artificial limit -officially-, in Japan. Before that, there have been many cars which are 'suspected' or maybe 'understood' to have more than 280ps but their official paper spec were still listed at 280ps. The last incarnation of the JDM NSX-R, which was JDM-only (as usual), was widely held to be 300ps or more. But the official brochure still lists it at 280ps. Similarly cars like the Subaru WRX Impressa RA-STi and Mistubishi Lancer Evolution. But the R35 is the first one to seriously blow this limit and properly challenge the european super cars. Or the american supercars, depending on one's viewpoint.

About Supra engine (sorry, forgot the code, used to know), versus the RB26DETT, I do agree because I have talked to a few tuners who said the same thing- that it is more 'tank' than the RB26. But the instances of crazily modified super high performance Skyline GT-Rs are a lot more, simply because of the greater cult following for it than compared to the Supra. There have only been one 'famous' 1000ps Supra, the Vielside Supra, in Japan whereas several tuners had 1000ps Skyline GT-Rs - HKS, Top-Fuel, and so forth.

The main difference, from what I understand, between R32 and R33 is the switch from single turbo to twin turbo. When the R33 first came out, there were indeed numerous opinions given that the R32 was preferred. I remember watching a documentary on N1 series racing where the teams who switched to R33 were not as competitive as those using R32. But the situation quickly changed.

Another thing I find is that Nissan doesn't use their model names outside Japan a lot of time. For e.g. I am not sure if you all know the name 'Silvia'. Or 'Fairlady' (which is another extremely famous name). And of course now we are talking about 'Skyline'. Similarly Honda switched from using 'Integra' to 'RSX'. What about the Mazda 'Miata' ? I assume you guys knows the 'Levin', and 'Trueno' name right ? Is that name well known in the U.S. (another cult following car, as is Miata).

There are plenty of great cars, 'legendary', and with a large 'cult following'. In spite of their supposedly unpopularity and irrelevance today, many of them have continued to be developed by their respective manufacturer, MX-5, Fairlady (370Z), RX-7 (now RX-8), (Skyline) GT-R, Imprezza WR-X, Lancer Evolution, and most irritatingly and frustratingly, even the famous 'hachiroku' is now re-incarnated.

And for us... well, what we have is the CR-Z which some thinks is the reincarnation of the 'legendary' CR-X but which others insists is not. So I will not make any more comments on it...
DrWhiner
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Re: NEW SENTRA!    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-30-2012 22:57
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But R35, despite its bulk, is still significant in its aforementioned fact that it was probably the first japanese supercar to ignore the 280ps artificial power limit.

IIRC, the 'power limit' was lifted just before Legend/RL was unveiled. I would just like to point out neither Honda nor Nissan 'broke' any agreement or limit.
WongKN
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Re: NEW SENTRA!    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-30-2012 23:13
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CarPhreakD wrote:
....
Anecdotally, in Canada you saw a TON of R32s imported over under the 15 year exemption rule. At least at first. Then you notice that they all disappeared... seems like they have a reputation...



Personally I think, and would agree if anyone says it, that other cars also have their weaknesses, as will Honda's best cars have as well. Over here, the biggest 'enemy' of the Skyline GT-R are its ignorant owners. Young boys who bought a used unit using parent's money for college use. And then succumbs to the belief that the RB26 is so good that all one needs is a boost controller and the ability to "turn that knob". It's like how I read with amusement a thread in the local Fiat forum, on the Fiat Coupe Turbo. "Our cars are superior to them VTECs because our engines are turbocharged. So all the mods we need is a boost controller. Put one in, turn it up to 1.5bar and we will beat any VTEC that challenges us".

When I was very active in the car enthusiast market, I used to watch and learn, with great interest, how other cars were modified. That is at my tuner's place (he's since closed down but I have moved to others). Thus I learned that the famous Mistubishi Lancer Evolution, from Version 7 onwards had a very weak clutch in stock form. One owner burnt his clutch with a completely stock unit by just doing a couple of standing start runs. Similarly, the rotary engine on the Mazda RX-7 (I used to know the code for it) had very weak internal seals and almost always loses compression after a few short years of use. So my tuner was telling me that if I really wanted to get that FD3S (RX-7 Type RZ) I was eyeing, then I must be prepared for a rebuilt of the engine as it needs to be stripped apart in order to replace the 'apex seals'.

But of course, neither are Honda cars and engines perfect, though I personally feel that they are a lot more reliable and better designed and built than others. For my B16A for e.g., the problem with the distributor (esp the internal coil) and the leaking VTEC soleniod switch, is of course very well known amongst B-Series fans. Switch to the K-Series and these have largely been fixed though I understand from my workshop that the KSeries has its own set of weaknesses as well.

But therein lies my greatest frustration. Of course I will admit I won't necessarily be buying them. But does that make me less qualified to be very frustrated that fans of other makes have continued to be able to talk about their latest engine and latest cars while I have now 'retired' to the sidelines and only write about electric motor assist on TOVA ?...
sadlerau
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Re: NEW SENTRA!    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-01-2012 02:08
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CarPhreakD wrote:

Anecdotally, in Canada you saw a TON of R32s imported over under the 15 year exemption rule. At least at first. Then you notice that they all disappeared... seems like they have a reputation...



Here in Western Australia we have so many Skylines [both 2 and 4 door, and GT-S to every type of GT-R] that I think they out number Civics on our roads! And they were never really sold offically, but are all "grey" imports!!! The Skylines are as reliable as any factory JDM car, until they are inadequately modified, as Wong implied :) I still see many lightly modified R32, R33 and even R34s on the road on a daily basis. A dealer friend of mine has a very special, genuine R34 GT-R V-Spec II Nur special edition in a gorgeous deep blue/purple shade. Awesome looking car - would buy it in a heartbeat, except I don't drive my NSX often enough as it is! :)

And yes, the Skyline GT-R is a "legend" [cheesy or not] in motoring circles who know the car. It's prowess on the race track is awe inspiring to any that have had the pleasure of being a witness.

And you had better believe that in the R35, it IS a match for any but the top cars from Porsche and Ferrari. Be it on the track, or as a daily drive [one of my best friends has an R35 as his daily].

As for naming the R35, Wong, Nissan announced some time back that they were NOT using the Skyline tag with the R35, because it was a genuinely different car now, no longer based on the Skyline chassis. So the R35 is strictly a GT-R and no longer a Skyline GT-R.

And finally I too lament the passing of the iconic Type R lineage from Honda! I still believe they will come to regret it in due course [as Australian sales are proving]. The FN2 Type R has not been enough to keep enthusiasts entertained, and develop the Honda brand against the onslaught of turbo charged sleds. :(
WongKN
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Re: NEW SENTRA!    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-01-2012 11:21
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Sadlerau,

You are a lucky man indeed, having an NSX. I couldn't find one the last time and in any case, used units are all over 12 years old and the banks won't give me a loan to buy a car that old.

I checked up on the nissan JDM website and indeed noticed they now call the Skyline by just 'Nissan GT-R', perhaps for the reason you described. For probably the same reason Nissan seemed to have dropped the Fairlady name.

I am sad to read that sales for Honda Australia is apparently slipping.

To end on a nostalgic note, I wonder if you remember yet another 'legendary' name - Mazda Savanna, what fans lovingly calls the 'seven'.
sadlerau
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Re: NEW SENTRA!    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-01-2012 11:44
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WongKN wrote:
Sadlerau,
To end on a nostalgic note, I wonder if you remember yet another 'legendary' name - Mazda Savanna, what fans lovingly calls the 'seven'.



Ah yes the 808 Coupe, or RX3 as it was sold in Australia. A great little car, used for many years in top line Touring Car racing here, and I still compete against them in Improved Production Racing! Indeed last year's Nationals Outright winner was an 808 [not RX3 because it was using a turbo'd 1.8 4 cylinder motor]. Don't see any on the roads anymore, but still a few running around on Australian race tracks :)

Australian sales of Honda cars are in free fall! Will be interesting to see if the new Civic can do anyhting to arrest it. And we are not getting the new CRV till mid 2013!! Is it any wonder??
sadlerau
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Re: NEW SENTRA!    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-01-2012 11:57
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Oh for an edit button!

Wong, while I was aware of the RX3 Coupe being called the Savanna in some markets, I had totally forgotten that the venerable RX7 was also called by that name in Japan and other markets. Silly me, old age is catching up fast, already I have forgotten much more than I can ever hope to remember!! :)

The RX7 is still an occasional site on our roads, and the Series 1 RX7 is allowed to race in Improved Production even though it is supposed t be a sedan category! A not so little historical quirk of Australian Touring Car history. As such the RX7 has been almost un-beatable in Improved Production racing since the birth of the category - to be expected when you have a Sports Car competing against Touring Cars :)
WongKN
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Re: NEW SENTRA!    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-01-2012 23:14
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Sadlerau,

Ah yes, the things that comes with age. However it is something everyone will encounter, sooner or later. I myself am not that young anymore and I can feel the difference year by year. But with age do come wisdom. While I felt more 'invulnerable' physically a decade ago, nowadays I spend a lot of time on my body, i.e. my general health, my physical condition, etc. You know the drill, exercise, proper mouth and teethcare (amazing how neglected they are until we start losing teeth), mental health and attitude, and so forth.

Anyway, I wasn't testing you, just felt wonderful to have someone who knows and remembers all these nostalgic and 'legendary' names. The thing is often japanese car makers do not carry their model names for overseas markets. For Nissan, I wonder if part of it is due to the 'Datsun' episode, where their Datsun nametag became more well known than their brandname (Nissan) itself and people start calling all Nissan 'Datsun'. :)

I envy you for still being so active in motorsport competition. I am not able to compete as a driver due to domestic reasons. I was the 'race strategist' for a few years for the local MME and competition is a wonderful and uplifting experience. But due to budget and other reasons, my team disbanded and I am no longer active in any forms of racing.

The results of sports-cars like RX-7 competing against 'normal' cars like a Civic in touring class and so forth are a bit reversed here in Malaysia. Outright sports cars like RX-7, Evos, WR-X'es, even Porsche 911s competes in the same class (Class A or the equivalent of 'production touring cars') in the MME and they are often taken apart by little Hondas.

Interestingly it wasn't the outrightly sportier Honda's that held the honour but the 'mundane' Honda Civic. It didn't even need an FD2R, even the older 7Gen 'ET1' Civic, with a K20AR engine swap took Class A honours over supposedly 'superior' sports-cars. When the FD2R came out, it almost totally dominated the class.

Sadly I find is this something that not all Honda fans understand nowadays. THIS, to me, is what 'Honda DNA' is all about. The Honda DNA present in 'mundane' models like the Civic is so powerful that my team took an EG6, stripped it, put in a B16B engine, used suspension kits from an unknown Taiwan company called 'Hardrace' and proceeded to take the podium in Class C (1.6l and below) on our first try. On a beginner's budget, hardly any sponsorship and we ourselves forking out the expenses out of our own pocket.

And more importantly against cars like 'full works' Toyota AE111 Levin with workshop and full sponsorship (they were envious, they tried for years and failed to land the podium but yet this bunch of upstarts just waltzed in with an el-cheapo Civic hatch and casually took the podium), even a Mistubishi Mirage from Australia. This is the kind of DNA that Honda's of old are legendary for. And this quality is what is slowly eroding from the newer cars. I suppose it is not something everyone can easily understand.
 
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