superchg2
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hondaguy717 wrote:
I am a product specialist for Honda |
Welcome to TOV!
What exactly does a product specialist do?
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Chocs
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hondaguy717 wrote:
up to 45 mpg4 in highway driving.
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I'm guessing that's a superscript 4? Which refers to, perhaps, "Your mileage may vary"?
"up to 45 mpg" would also imply anywhere between negative infinity to 45 mpg, I presume.
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hondaguy717
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I am in sales for a Honda dealer.
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hondaguy717
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This is what superscript 4 means from the brochure "4 Based on 2008 EPA mileage estimates, reflecting new EPA fuel economy methods beginning with 2008 models. Use for comparison purposes only. Do not compare to models before 2008. Your actual mileage will vary depending on how you drive and maintain your vehicle."
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WongKN
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The 'Honda Fan' post below is not exactly the same scenario though I highly suspect the original intention was the same and most probably inspired by the case that is being discussed here. I apologize beforehand if I unintentionally offend by criticising one of your countrymen but for one I am glad judges in Malaysia and presumeably ASEAN are a lot more sensible than some that I see over in your country.
http://tovahondafan.blogspot.com/2012/04/below-is-extract-of-email-sent-to-me-by.html
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DrWhiner
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CarGuyLee wrote:
HONDA AFVM wrote:
CarGuyLee wrote:
I still think there is more to this than people having a heavy foot. Espeically when you consider there was a class action suit, meaning lots of people had this problem. If it was a heavy foot problem you would see it with the prius also.
I've mentioned before the two people I work with that both had the HCH, I think 1 was an 06, and one an 07 (not 100% on the years) they had about a 12+ mpg difference between the two. They are related so they even switched out the cars for a week to see if it was driving styles...no difference. When they would talk about it I thought the same thing... they are different drivers, one a 70+ year old man and one a 50+ year old woman, but switching made no difference. The one that had the 'bad' one sold it and bought a prius and they always get within 3 mpg of ratings.
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A Prius is much more forgiving because of the Series/Parallel system it has.......The fact it can run easily it's 1st 3 to 6 mph on electric only helps immensely in the over all mpg, plus it has a much more powerful battery pack, then the civic.......So in stop and go traffic the civic loses a great amount of it's MPG over the Prius as to on the HWY the civic can catch up the MPG over the prius..........
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That still doesn't explain the two drivers switching for a week and getting the same results. According to you anytime you drive someones car for 100 miles you get better MPG. In the case I am talking about that is exactly what happened with no result change.
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Worn tires, winter tires, replacement tires, wheel alignments ....
just the start.
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CarGuyLee
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DrWhiner wrote:
CarGuyLee wrote:
HONDA AFVM wrote:
CarGuyLee wrote:
I still think there is more to this than people having a heavy foot. Espeically when you consider there was a class action suit, meaning lots of people had this problem. If it was a heavy foot problem you would see it with the prius also.
I've mentioned before the two people I work with that both had the HCH, I think 1 was an 06, and one an 07 (not 100% on the years) they had about a 12+ mpg difference between the two. They are related so they even switched out the cars for a week to see if it was driving styles...no difference. When they would talk about it I thought the same thing... they are different drivers, one a 70+ year old man and one a 50+ year old woman, but switching made no difference. The one that had the 'bad' one sold it and bought a prius and they always get within 3 mpg of ratings.
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A Prius is much more forgiving because of the Series/Parallel system it has.......The fact it can run easily it's 1st 3 to 6 mph on electric only helps immensely in the over all mpg, plus it has a much more powerful battery pack, then the civic.......So in stop and go traffic the civic loses a great amount of it's MPG over the Prius as to on the HWY the civic can catch up the MPG over the prius..........
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That still doesn't explain the two drivers switching for a week and getting the same results. According to you anytime you drive someones car for 100 miles you get better MPG. In the case I am talking about that is exactly what happened with no result change.
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Worn tires, winter tires, replacement tires, wheel alignments ....
just the start.
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Nope all that was good. When getting so much less MPG than the other they started having things checked out exc.
Nice try though.
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DrWhiner
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hondaguy717 wrote:
Here is what I don't understand on this law suite. Has anyone checked the brochure from that model year??? I have it on PDF on my laptop because I am a product specialist for Honda and here is an excerpt from page 8 of the brochure: "Smart thinking meets smart styling in the Honda Civic Hybrid. Its sophisticated gasoline-electric powertrain helps you save plenty of money on fuel – with up to 45 mpg4 in highway driving. The air benefits from its status as an Advanced Technology Partial Zero-Emission Vehicle (AT-PZEV)5 – the most stringent emissions standard yet achieved by a gasoline-powered vehicle in the U.S. And all along, you get to enjoy
the Civic’s top-flight style, comfort and convenience. With interior amenities like automatic climate control, a powerful 6-speaker audio system, cruise control and power windows, mirrors and door locks, driving smart feels good inside"
So what is the problem?? Nowhere has it ever said in the brochure or on the sticker of the car that the Civic Hybrid ever was rated at 50 MPG.
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I think it is a 2006 HCH.
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P54
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Honda Wins Reversal of Small-Claims Loss Over Hybrid Mileage
By Edvard Pettersson and Maurice Possley - May 9, 2012
Honda Motor Co. (7267) won the reversal of a $9,867 small-claims-court loss to a Californian who dropped out of a class-action lawsuit and pursued her own claim that the company overstated the fuel mileage of its Civic Hybrid.
Judge Dudley W. Gray II of state Superior Court in Torrance, in Los Angeles County, ruled today in the case of Heather Peters, according to an entry on the court docket.
Peters had rejected the class-action settlement, which paid car owners $100 or $200 depending on the model and as much as $1,500 credit toward a new vehicle. Peters and plaintiffs in the larger suit challenged the company’s claim that the car gets 50 miles a gallon of fuel.
A small-claims judge in February agreed with Peters that Honda’s advertising misrepresented the mileage of her 2006 Civic Hybrid and awarded her damages. He rejected Honda’s claims that it’s stuck with the estimate provided by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-05-09/honda-wins-reversal-of-small-claims-loss-over-hybrid-mileage-1-.html
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P54
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More on this:
A Los Angeles County judge overturned a nearly $10,000 small-claims judgment against AmericanHonda Motor Co.that was won by a car owner who said the automaker misrepresented the gas mileage of her hybrid Civic, according to a ruling released Wednesday.
Superior Court Judge Dudley W. Gray II ruled Tuesday on Honda's appeal of a small-claims court commissioner's award of $9,867 to Civic owner Heather Peters.
Peters opted out of a class-action settlement giving some 200,000 owners between $100 and $200 each, plus a rebate if they buy a new Honda, electing instead to sue the automaker on her own.
Gray's ruling found, among other things, that while Peters had standing to bring the case in state court, federal regulations govern fuel economy ratings posted on vehicles and advertising claims related to them. The ruling also said that most owners of that type of car achieve fuel economy close to federal Environmental Protection Agency estimates.
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fiw-honda-wins-appeal-20120509,0,6208747.story
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P54
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More in detail here:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5ghPv0aX_l-fplZIh-CNcGm7RSo4A?docId=7a397d441705438c8d4df6989e10ff38
In addition, the judge said EPA miles per gallon ratings are for comparison among vehicles and don't account for various factors such as the condition of the car or the length of the trip, that can affect mileage.
"Despite these many variables, most of the owners of the subject vehicle achieve fuel economy very close to the EPA estimate," Gray wrote.
Peters argued that Honda knew it had problems with the hybrid cars but continued to advertise them as an alternative to high gas prices and a way to help the environment.
But Gray said the automaker's advertising slogans "are not specific promises of anything."
Peters also said her battery failed early on and was never again fully charged after she received a software update, leaving the car to run almost entirely on gasoline.
"The court finds it was designed to prolong the life of the battery, not to increase mileage or performance of the vehicle," Gray said of the software update.
Peters' "subjective impressions of sluggishness or impaired safety are unsupported by any objective evidence," he said.
Peters has said her purpose for not being part of the settlement was to hold Honda accountable for false advertising. Her suit was a unique end run around the class-action process that she said offered too little to Honda owners and too much to lawyers.
A judge has valued the class-action settlement at $170 million. Attorneys for the plaintiffs have placed the value between $87.5 million and $461.3 million, depending largely on how many people accept rebates of up to $1,500.
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DCR
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Well, that was fun while it lasted. She should have sued McDonalds after freezing her crotch from dropping a giganto-sized Coke on it.
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TonyEX
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AHM attorney's are sort of clueless...
Finally they woke up and defended AHM.
AHM should now back out from the Class Action Agreement and let the case go to court.
They have a clear precedent now.
Did you note how several State Attorneys General were holding off the Class Action on account of this small claims ruling?
Now that AHM has clearly won, and convincingly done so.. they should back out. I think the Class Action Lawsuit will go nowhere now. As it should have never gone if AHM's lawyers had been more effective.
Heck, I'll bet that GM and Ford and Toyota and everyone is sleeping better tonight.
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owequitit
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TonyE wrote:
AHM attorney's are sort of clueless...
Finally they woke up and defended AHM.
AHM should now back out from the Class Action Agreement and let the case go to court.
They have a clear precedent now.
Did you note how several State Attorneys General were holding off the Class Action on account of this small claims ruling?
Now that AHM has clearly won, and convincingly done so.. they should back out. I think the Class Action Lawsuit will go nowhere now. As it should have never gone if AHM's lawyers had been more effective.
Heck, I'll bet that GM and Ford and Toyota and everyone is sleeping better tonight.
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Someone filing a suit against Honda has little to do with the capability of their legal department. That said, the attorneys also work for their client, so their hands are tied based on Honda's desires. Honda may have wanted to extend an olive branch to the class action plaintiffs on the basis of goodwill.
That said, I am glad Honda pursued this vigorously. I really see no other alternative, as they are regulated by Federal law on how EPA numbers are generated, displayed and verified. They should not be liable for that which they can't control, and it also very clearly exonerates them on every sticker with the "mileage may vary" claim.
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TonyEX
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owequitit wrote:
TonyE wrote:
AHM attorney's are sort of clueless...
Finally they woke up and defended AHM.
AHM should now back out from the Class Action Agreement and let the case go to court.
They have a clear precedent now.
Did you note how several State Attorneys General were holding off the Class Action on account of this small claims ruling?
Now that AHM has clearly won, and convincingly done so.. they should back out. I think the Class Action Lawsuit will go nowhere now. As it should have never gone if AHM's lawyers had been more effective.
Heck, I'll bet that GM and Ford and Toyota and everyone is sleeping better tonight.
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Someone filing a suit against Honda has little to do with the capability of their legal department. That said, the attorneys also work for their client, so their hands are tied based on Honda's desires. Honda may have wanted to extend an olive branch to the class action plaintiffs on the basis of goodwill.
That said, I am glad Honda pursued this vigorously. I really see no other alternative, as they are regulated by Federal law on how EPA numbers are generated, displayed and verified. They should not be liable for that which they can't control, and it also very clearly exonerates them on every sticker with the "mileage may vary" claim.
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AHM might have wanted to extend an olive branch but instead they put their heads on a chopping block.
In the US legal system, you do NOT extend an olive branch.
This should have become obvious a couple of months ago when those State Attorneys General suddenly decided to hold off on signing off on the Class Action Settlement to see what was the outcome of the Small Claims Suit.
They were licking their lips... sharks swimming around... smelling the extortion of even more money from AHM. Even as they knew that AHM had done nothing illegal.. they followed the EPA rules and it was a legal misstep for AHM to have extended the olive branch.
There is no good faith left in the American Ligitation Lottery...
Now, the Attorneys General will be rushing to seal in their deals because they know that suddenly AHM is on the driver's seat.
This time AHM should back off and dare those lawyers to come after them.
Simple as that.
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Powered by Honda
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DCR wrote:
Well, that was fun while it lasted. She should have sued McDonalds after freezing her crotch from dropping a giganto-sized Coke on it.
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hahahahahahahahhaha
opposite of the coffee sue. Wicked.
anyways...my only input on this is:
Good job Honda.
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