|
|
|
|
 |
DCR
 |
|
This review is pretty much what I expected, and agree that the 2.4 is better suited here (but castrated by lack of options). Also, the hybrid is going to be an expensive lesson to Honda on this one.
Looking at the rise and fall on the sales graph, it is pretty clear Acura made a huge mistake in distancing itself from the RSX and the "crowd" that came with it. Sales generation was happening at the gateway ALREADY, and they blew it. They had the goose laying golden eggs, and they cooked it for dinner.
Short sight.
Too many of the wrong people got in the mix, and it was decided the tuner crowd was tarnishing the Acura nameplate?
Read this:
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/acura-rsx-type-s-page-6-1
Does that sound like a car you would be embarrassed to have in your stable? The ILX is not...I repeat, not going to attract the type of attention the RSX did as the entry-level to the brand.
|
DCR
|
|
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060501/FREE/60501001/1041
Guido Vildozo, automotive analyst with Global Insight in Lexington, Mass., says the RSX needs to go if Acura wants to distance itself from Honda and move upscale. "Where do you position RSX now that Honda has the Civic Si?" Vildozo asks.
Rob Mohr, sales manager for 20 years at Montano Acura in Albuquerque, N.M., says dealers have heard that Acura may add both coupe and convertible models to the TSX sedan, the second-least expensive Acura, which lists at $28,505, including shipping.
But Mohr questions the brand's decision to kill the RSX. He says the inexpensive sticker brought in a lot of customers.
"It's a mistake," he says. "It's a great first car for Acura. We had our chance at the luxury market and blew it. Now we're going to lose a lot of the RSX customers, and I'm not so sure we can get them back." |
|
JeffX
|
|
DCR wrote:
This review is pretty much what I expected, and agree that the 2.4 is better suited here (but castrated by lack of options). Also, the hybrid is going to be an expensive lesson to Honda on this one.
Looking at the rise and fall on the sales graph, it is pretty clear Acura made a huge mistake in distancing itself from the RSX and the "crowd" that came with it. Sales generation was happening at the gateway ALREADY, and they blew it. They had the goose laying golden eggs, and they cooked it for dinner.
Short sight.
Too many of the wrong people got in the mix, and it was decided the tuner crowd was tarnishing the Acura nameplate?
Read this:
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/acura-rsx-type-s-page-6-1
Does that sound like a car you would be embarrassed to have in your stable? The ILX is not...I repeat, not going to attract the type of attention the RSX did as the entry-level to the brand.
|
I didn't note it on the chart but there was also an industry wide downward adjustment of around 15% due to the Lehmann shock, so that should be taken into account. Even with that in mind, there was clearly a downward trend in play.
|
DCR
|
|
To an extent. but they chopped their legs off at the knee by dropping that car. Was the competition as stiff in that segment then as it is now?
The market will dictate the success of the ILX of course, but personally, I would have absolutely purchased an RSX-S if I could have afforded it at the time, but now that I can, there is no way in hell I would buy an ILX.
|
integrator
|
|
DCR wrote:
To an extent. but they chopped their legs off at the knee by dropping that car. Was the competition as stiff in that segment then as it is now?
The market will dictate the success of the ILX of course, but personally, I would have absolutely purchased an RSX-S if I could have afforded it at the time, but now that I can, there is no way in hell I would buy an ILX.
|
For some pre-2008 comparison, I pulled Integra (3+4dr sales) and compared to RSX and TSX sales.
G3 Integra 2nd yr sales (95): 61,316
RSX 2nd yr sales (02): 30,117
RSX 3rd yr sales (03): 24,292 (TSX 1st yr sales: 18.932, TOTAL = 43.224)
RSX 4th yr sales (04): 21,940 (TSX 2nd yr sales: 30,385, TOTAL = 52,325)
The Gen1 TSX was a great successor in the spirit of the Integra 4dr sedan...plus a little more luxury but it kept its sportiness, size, and mission and did well. But even combined, the TSX+RSX peak was off the Integra sales of around the same point in the model cycle by min. 15%. Had the RSX been more of a successor to the G3 Integra, I don't think we'd be lamenting the Integra's (or RSX) loss, because it would have been harder to chop off the lineup.
Had the ILX become the spiritual successor to the Gen1 TSX, I think it might have become a great asset to Acura. A little smaller, better mileage, a bit sportier... and able to replace the portly Gen2 TSX, leaving room for a new TL to be a bit smaller. Having both the ILX and TSX in the lineup is another Hail Mary attempt, that just shows how pale the competency of this company has become.
The dip in sales also coincides with Mendel's hire, and the management placements he brought with him from old Detroit. Had he not been the completely arrogant, incompetent hack that he is, he would have quietly placed Tier1 aspirational vehicles in top of the lineup while maintaining "the legs", until those models were established. As it turns out, it merely showed the impact of his branding expertise and presence on sales. Anywhere else, this would mean firings.
|
Hondarulez
|
|
|
G3 Integra was a HUGE success...after all, Honda managed to keep the same design for 8 long years without many changes and the car was still popular.
|
cksi1372
|
|
|
Jeff - Was there any mention of why they aren't offering Navi in the 2.4? Was it for price reasons? Great review, but doesn't change my initial thoughts on Acura struggling with sales on this one. Can't wait for the RDX review.
|
TurkMan71
|
|
It was a great car (integra more so), but I still think it was a good decision to ax it, losing sales but eventually better for the image of the brand. The first gen TSX was perfectly acceptable as a gateway car for a luxury brand, unfortunately the ILX is no first gen TSX...
If anything, Acura would be wise to offer a Mini competitor, something truly small, but with high quality, high end appointments...young urbanites would eat that up - I see young(ish) professionals driving Minis, Mini Countryman, and Jukes all over the place in Chicago...I think the Gen Y buyers that Acura is so keen to attract want more than electronic doodads and prosaic driving traits...I think they want some quirky styling (not overly ugly please) and some functionality wrapped up in a small footprint...
The ILX just reads too vanilla...
|
Ganplosive
|
|
it certainly feels like the ILX is trying to cater to what the IS250 crowd is currently marketing to. I think it'll work, but the irony is that even Lexus is trying to distance itself from that crowd a little bit by injecting more aggression to their lineup.
Can somebody say catch up? I somewhat echo what Neal has said - this car would've been quite perfect... in 2007. Imagine if this car stacked up against the IS250 in its current model, it would've been a good alternative but whilst others are moving on to other things, it certainly feels like Acura is trying to step in to cater to this crowd. It'll work I think, but not really taking the brand anywhere.
|
iNteGRaz92
|
|
|
people will never be satisfied by honda or don't really know what they want. everyone said they needed to kill the rsx since the k20-powered si was stepping on its toes. they did just that and now people want the rsx back. so which is it? lol.
|
DrWhiner
|
|
DCR wrote:
This review is pretty much what I expected, and agree that the 2.4 is better suited here (but castrated by lack of options). Also, the hybrid is going to be an expensive lesson to Honda on this one.
Looking at the rise and fall on the sales graph, it is pretty clear Acura made a huge mistake in distancing itself from the RSX and the "crowd" that came with it. Sales generation was happening at the gateway ALREADY, and they blew it. They had the goose laying golden eggs, and they cooked it for dinner.
Short sight.
Too many of the wrong people got in the mix, and it was decided the tuner crowd was tarnishing the Acura nameplate?
Read this:
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/acura-rsx-type-s-page-6-1
Does that sound like a car you would be embarrassed to have in your stable? The ILX is not...I repeat, not going to attract the type of attention the RSX did as the entry-level to the brand.
|
I don't think Honda has given up on the RSX. It turned the RSX into Si.
What if Acura continue to build the RSX?
Would there be the 2006 Si?
|
JIRZLEE
|
|
I think the Si leaves plenty of room for luxury touches to keep the RSX as well. The problem wasn't the Si moving up it was the RSX sitting still.
For myself I would love to see a Si-like hatch or liftback from the Acura brand, offered in 3 and 5 door configurations. I'll take a 5dr. It would be powered by a next generation high revving 2.2L K-series.
|
DCR
|
|
DrWhiner wrote:
I don't think Honda has given up on the RSX. It turned the RSX into Si.
What if Acura continue to build the RSX?
Would there be the 2006 Si?
|
They could have easily given it a bit of a halo over the 06 Si.
|
notyper
|
|
+1 DCR. Even if they had kept the RSX an entry level FWD luxury sport coupe, it could have been successful.
Start with a $32k, 2900 lbs, leather equipped, 220 hp, 3dr coupe, well equipped. This would compare favorably to a BMW 328i which is $32k strippped, 3200+ lbs with 230 hp. It would be just as quick, more practical and probably roomier (the 1-series coupe is quite cramped). Yes, still FWD vs RWD, but I think there would have been room for it.
Then offer a $35k Type-S or even a Type-R. 250 hp, a few extra options, etc. Considering that a 328i coupe starts at $39k with 240 (underrated) hp, I think it could sell.
The only caveats are that it would have to look a lot better than what Acura stylists are putting out now, and it would have to have that old Acura verve - that liveliness of engine, transmission and chassis that made it acceptable to choose a FWD car over the RWD competition.
Yes, I'd still prefer a RWD chassis, but I think Acura could pull off an entry level coupe like this.
SC
|
Mr. Taggart
|
|
But they won't build something like that because Ito believes it goes against his performance to CO2 ratio, hence the ED power trains and focus on producing engines that are 'greener'.
It would be nice for someone to hire Lutz or Shelby and tell Washington (and other clueless govt's) to go pound sand as they would ingnore this global cooling err global warming err global climate change BS.
In the long run it will not matter. Within 10 years China will see a democratic revolution and there will be more consolidation in the auto industry and you will see no independent Japanese auto makers as Japanese market continues to shrink the result of a declining birth rate. Toyota will probably survive but will not be Japanese
|
integrator
|
|
| DCR wrote:They could have easily given it a bit of a halo over the 06 Si. |
I agree. Nowadays they're fixated on the idea of the NSX as a halo car, but it can even be the entry vehicle so long as it is so good that it casts a more favorable light on the rest of the lineup. The Integra GSR was that car... and later the ITR.
If they could recapture THAT kind of excitement with an ILX derived 3dr, I'd take back all the things I've said in the past.
|
Hondarulez
|
|
|
I think they are building an affordable sporty coupe...no? There was a concept vehicle shown earlier I think.
|
NealX
|
|
Hondarulez wrote:
I think they are building an affordable sporty coupe...no? There was a concept vehicle shown earlier I think.
|
Maybe you're recalling these? Anyways, I like the idea of a split-level, 2-tired "halo" car:
|
DCR
|
|
|
I wish that coupe existed.
|
Hondarulez
|
|
Neal, I was talking about the EV-ster concept as shown here: http://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=1017337
If I remember correctly, Ito hinted that a smaller, affordable sports car will be available in the near future.
|
NealX
|
|
That would be a fun little Honda for sure.
Guess I was thinking exclusively of Acura...
OK!
|
Chocs
|
|
Yeah, I can't see the EV-STER as an Acura... but for them to make a derivation of one is not out of the question.
Will people complain about the "EV" part, though? Or will Honda make it a "STER" instead?
|
Atomic Frog
|
|
It's still a mistake. The ILX I mean. Is it going to win back the same type of customers that the Integra/RSX attracted? No.
I gave up my TL-S a while ago. I could get another car, but would I rather get a used RSX-S or a new ILX? It would be the RSX-S, hands down.
Is the ILX going to win over a new batch of customers? Are you kidding? There's nothing spectacular about the ILX vs. the competition and unlike some of the other brands, sadly, Acura doesn't have nameplate power.
My very first car, I was looking for a fun, sporty, functional car that wasn't bargain basement cheapy and Acura got the nod. That first Integra was the start of a long line of Acura's. Sadly, nothing to replace the Integra anymore for anyone who was in similar shoes as I was (and judging by the sales numbers, that seemed to have been a lot).
Bring back the RSX.
|
Hondarulez
|
|
Atomic Frog wrote:
It's still a mistake. The ILX I mean. Is it going to win back the same type of customers that the Integra/RSX attracted? No.
I gave up my TL-S a while ago. I could get another car, but would I rather get a used RSX-S or a new ILX? It would be the RSX-S, hands down.
Is the ILX going to win over a new batch of customers? Are you kidding? There's nothing spectacular about the ILX vs. the competition and unlike some of the other brands, sadly, Acura doesn't have nameplate power.
My very first car, I was looking for a fun, sporty, functional car that wasn't bargain basement cheapy and Acura got the nod. That first Integra was the start of a long line of Acura's. Sadly, nothing to replace the Integra anymore for anyone who was in similar shoes as I was (and judging by the sales numbers, that seemed to have been a lot).
Bring back the RSX.
|
We should give the car a bit of time to see how it does in terms of sales. Then, we can judge whether it's a mistake or not.
|
Hondu
|
|
notyper wrote:
+1 DCR. Even if they had kept the RSX an entry level FWD luxury sport coupe, it could have been successful.
Start with a $32k, 2900 lbs, leather equipped, 220 hp, 3dr coupe, well equipped. This would compare favorably to a BMW 328i which is $32k strippped, 3200+ lbs with 230 hp. It would be just as quick, more practical and probably roomier (the 1-series coupe is quite cramped). Yes, still FWD vs RWD, but I think there would have been room for it.
Then offer a $35k Type-S or even a Type-R. 250 hp, a few extra options, etc. Considering that a 328i coupe starts at $39k with 240 (underrated) hp, I think it could sell.
The only caveats are that it would have to look a lot better than what Acura stylists are putting out now, and it would have to have that old Acura verve - that liveliness of engine, transmission and chassis that made it acceptable to choose a FWD car over the RWD competition.
Yes, I'd still prefer a RWD chassis, but I think Acura could pull off an entry level coupe like this.
SC
|
+2 I would love to get either model you mentioned, if only Acura would remove their heads from their rears and build them. They could convert the "SX" (RSX, TSX, etc.) moniker for coupes/hatches and keep the "LX" (ILX, TLX, RLX) for the sedans.
Sadly, I don't think there will be one available in the next 1-2 years, so I will most likely end up going with a BMW 1-series (or 2, if the rumors are true).
|
Atomic Frog
|
|
|
Okay, I'm willing to give it a chance. But how often have the TOV'ers general sentiments been wrong? ;-)
|
DrWhiner
|
|
How about the reaction over the gen. 3 CR-V?
smh.
|
dootndo2
|
|
As an owner of an Integra GSR, I would totally get into one of these.
Again, I want the 6MT with all of the technology! I currently have an 08 Accord Coupe V6 6MT (with Navi). Why would I side step into something with less capability? The new Accord is going to have ED engine, all of the tech and a 6MT for the sedan.
I love the look of the ILX. I actually think this was a HUGE missed opportunity. This car should have had 2.0 engine as base, 2.4 as mid tier, and then the 2.3T as the Type-S version with SHAWD with a 6MT. They could be sitting very pretty right now.
As a previous 94 Integra GSR owner, I think the RSX was a bad direction to go. It didn't have the same presence as the Integra did. It got "frumpy" and "kitchy". Also, hated the RSX name badge.
As an aside, I also, loved the Prelude. Say 1996 Green with Tan Leather VTEC model... Those were the days.
Honda is getting much closer. I just wish they would just seal the deal already. It truly feels like the "bean counters" are arm wrestling with the product team and winning when it comes to making the final decisions.
But I digress.
dootndo2
|
Hondarulez
|
|
dootndo2 wrote:
As an owner of an Integra GSR, I would totally get into one of these.
Again, I want the 6MT with all of the technology! I currently have an 08 Accord Coupe V6 6MT (with Navi). Why would I side step into something with less capability? The new Accord is going to have ED engine, all of the tech and a 6MT for the sedan.
I love the look of the ILX. I actually think this was a HUGE missed opportunity. This car should have had 2.0 engine as base, 2.4 as mid tier, and then the 2.3T as the Type-S version with SHAWD with a 6MT. They could be sitting very pretty right now.
As a previous 94 Integra GSR owner, I think the RSX was a bad direction to go. It didn't have the same presence as the Integra did. It got "frumpy" and "kitchy". Also, hated the RSX name badge.
As an aside, I also, loved the Prelude. Say 1996 Green with Tan Leather VTEC model... Those were the days.
Honda is getting much closer. I just wish they would just seal the deal already. It truly feels like the "bean counters" are arm wrestling with the product team and winning when it comes to making the final decisions.
But I digress.
dootndo2
|
I think the ILX 2.4 one will be even better equipped than your Accord, other than the navi. It has start button, pandora, sms, etc. Also, if you are willing to wait a bit, ED powertrains are coming to the ILX in the near future.
|
TurkMan71
|
|
DrWhiner wrote:
How about the reaction over the gen. 3 CR-V?
smh.
|
80honda, err, I mean DrWhiner:
I see your CR-V and raise you a CR-Z, a Crosstour, a ZDX, an Insight, a RL, etc...
|
|
|
| |
|
| Thread Page - [1] 2 |
| |
|
![[home]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/home.gif){kind=small}
![[rumors and news]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/rumors.gif){kind=small}
![[model release matrix]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/newmodelreleasematrix.gif){kind=small}
![[dealer network]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/dealernet.gif){kind=small}
![[desktop calendar]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/calendar.gif){kind=small}
![[exhaust notes]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/exhaust.gif){kind=small}
![[tov forums]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/forums.gif){kind=small}
![[links]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/links.gif){kind=small}
![[search]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/search.gif){kind=small}
![[sponsors]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/sponsors.gif){kind=small}
![[garage]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/garage.gif){kind=small}
![[login]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/login.gif){kind=small}
