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danielgr
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CR-V9 wrote:
I'm calm, now. I took my medications.
Dany-san, there is one thing I respectly read differently.
On the last two lines, I don't think they mean "you of yesterday" or "Honda of yesterday".
It was the "made" I'm curious. It is not "kinou-no-anata" or "kinou-no-Honda". It was "kinou-made- no-anata" & "kinou-made-no-Honda".
The "made" has a hiden connotation of "yet" or "still', some limited quarity. So I interpreted it as "what you have become" or "what Honda has become till today". I think they're talking about you of today, what you have become, Honda of today, what Honda has come to.
So It is not to surpase Honda of yesterday(in golden years) but rather to do better than today's Honda, to go back to the yesterday's Honda. That was how I understood it first time.
I know, I know, it's minor point but it is defferent, though. I just was not able to come up with a short comparable phrase.
And I think this was an internal CM. It meant to appeal to the employees. Ito wants them to do better(go beyond) themselves and make Honda better to bring back the yesterday Honda. Ito wants them to be angry, passionate. That's how I took it. Maybe I'm wrong. No big deal. Did you ask your wife? Or she is sick of Honda this, Honda that?
Reading from the comments on Youtube, this brought tears to many people.
p.s. I agree that translation should be as close as literal. Akwardness is better if it conveys Japaneseness of the original text. I don't think it should sound normal english. Where is the fun of translation from other language? |
I think this time again my poor English let me down. When I wrote "Honda of yesterday" I was only thinking "yesterday" literally, meaning "the day before today". But then you are right, many people will be reading that as "sometime in the past", whereas the Japanese version clearly states: "The Honda of up to yesterday" (yesterday being the day before today, i.e. everything that Honda has been/become up to now).
Any native English person here has any suggestion as of how could we rewrite that in a precise yet simple enough way to fit in the subtitles????
PS: Never ask my wife anything about Honda !!! ;-)
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TonyEX
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danielgr wrote:
...
The ad is not about engineering excellence, it's not about Honda's greatest products either, the car is about "trying something new", "pushing the boundaries of imagination", it's about pursuing "real dreams", which have to be "about the unthinkable", not simply about "making the same thing better"...
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It's missing the Clarity.
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Nick GravesX
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danielgr wrote:
CR-V9 wrote:
I'm calm, now. I took my medications.
Dany-san, there is one thing I respectly read differently.
On the last two lines, I don't think they mean "you of yesterday" or "Honda of yesterday".
It was the "made" I'm curious. It is not "kinou-no-anata" or "kinou-no-Honda". It was "kinou-made- no-anata" & "kinou-made-no-Honda".
The "made" has a hiden connotation of "yet" or "still', some limited quarity. So I interpreted it as "what you have become" or "what Honda has become till today". I think they're talking about you of today, what you have become, Honda of today, what Honda has come to.
So It is not to surpase Honda of yesterday(in golden years) but rather to do better than today's Honda, to go back to the yesterday's Honda. That was how I understood it first time.
I know, I know, it's minor point but it is defferent, though. I just was not able to come up with a short comparable phrase.
And I think this was an internal CM. It meant to appeal to the employees. Ito wants them to do better(go beyond) themselves and make Honda better to bring back the yesterday Honda. Ito wants them to be angry, passionate. That's how I took it. Maybe I'm wrong. No big deal. Did you ask your wife? Or she is sick of Honda this, Honda that?
Reading from the comments on Youtube, this brought tears to many people.
p.s. I agree that translation should be as close as literal. Akwardness is better if it conveys Japaneseness of the original text. I don't think it should sound normal english. Where is the fun of translation from other language? |
I think this time again my poor English let me down. When I wrote "Honda of yesterday" I was only thinking "yesterday" literally, meaning "the day before today". But then you are right, many people will be reading that as "sometime in the past", whereas the Japanese version clearly states: "The Honda of up to yesterday" (yesterday being the day before today, i.e. everything that Honda has been/become up to now).
Any native English person here has any suggestion as of how could we rewrite that in a precise yet simple enough way to fit in the subtitles????
PS: Never ask my wife anything about Honda !!! ;-)
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:D
This Japanese translation stuff is great fun; I love the awkwardness of literal translation too. It is a conceptual language after all.
I think we'd say "so far" or "until now" - ie to date & not to yesterday's date, as the Japanese concept is.
We'd probably say "Hondas of yore" if we wanted to imply the good ol' days.
"Yesterday" is probably more poetic & vague though. Sort of lends itself better.
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A77
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Is yesteryear a better word to use here? I have only glanced through this thread.
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CR-V9
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Yeah... I pretty much agree with you... To me that Japanese sentence was crystal clear from the begining, yet I couldn't find anything I really liked in English...
I think this time again my poor English let me down. When I wrote "Honda of yesterday" I was only thinking "yesterday" literally, meaning "the day before today". But then you are right, many people will be reading that as "sometime in the past", whereas the Japanese version clearly states: "The Honda of up to yesterday" (yesterday being the day before today, i.e. everything that Honda has been/become up to now).
Any native English person here has any suggestion as of how could we rewrite that in a precise yet simple enough way to fit in the subtitles???? |
It's just, I felt uneasy when I read it.
It's different once out there, isn't it? I can't tell how it would sound untill it's out there. Then it'd sound different from what I intended, and it's too late. That's why I usually don't reread it. It pains me. Good thing I don't do this for a living.
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CR-V9
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Nick Graves wrote:
:D
This Japanese translation stuff is great fun; I love the awkwardness of literal translation too. It is a conceptual language after all.
I think we'd say "so far" or "until now" - ie to date & not to yesterday's date, as the Japanese concept is.
We'd probably say "Hondas of yore" if we wanted to imply the good ol' days.
"Yesterday" is probably more poetic & vague though. Sort of lends itself better.
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How would you phrase it, though?
"better yourself of so far", "surpase Honda untill today" ???
Does it sound alright?
Thing is we wouldn't want it to be too explainately. We'd like it keep short and crisp like the original. Because thet makes the video dramatic.
I'd like to keep it somewhat grammatically correct though otherwise nobody would understand it. But I'd also like to keep it awkwardly Japanese-ish inspite of incorrect grammer. Do I make sense?
Language is alive, ever changing. But Nick, You are the gurdian of English. You must keep it intact.
You's got teach your children English proper like. You're the last defence.
Because I'm the one who messes up your language. Pardon me.
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danielgr
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TonyE wrote:
danielgr wrote:
...
The ad is not about engineering excellence, it's not about Honda's greatest products either, the car is about "trying something new", "pushing the boundaries of imagination", it's about pursuing "real dreams", which have to be "about the unthinkable", not simply about "making the same thing better"...
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It's missing the Clarity.
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the clarity is not a real mass produced vehicle Honda would sell to its customers, just an evolutionary step on their way to having such yet to exist car.
Same way you don't have any EV in there. The real "new thing" is when they'll get a product they can actually sell...
If the clarity was to be there, rather have the FCX1, yet all those are "mistakes along the painful road one needs to take in order to reach one's dreams" (having h2 powered cars as an alternative to gasoline). They still haven't reached it, but sure hope they don't give up trying, though I wouldn't mind if they took the time to eat and sleep properly... ;)
PS: I agree, Clarity is a beautiful mistake :P
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P54
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CR-V9 wrote:
Yeah... I pretty much agree with you... To me that Japanese sentence was crystal clear from the begining, yet I couldn't find anything I really liked in English...
I think this time again my poor English let me down. When I wrote "Honda of yesterday" I was only thinking "yesterday" literally, meaning "the day before today". But then you are right, many people will be reading that as "sometime in the past", whereas the Japanese version clearly states: "The Honda of up to yesterday" (yesterday being the day before today, i.e. everything that Honda has been/become up to now).
Any native English person here has any suggestion as of how could we rewrite that in a precise yet simple enough way to fit in the subtitles???? |
It's just, I felt uneasy when I read it.
It's different once out there, isn't it? I can't tell how it would sound untill it's out there. Then it'd sound different from what I intended, and it's too late. That's why I usually don't reread it. It pains me. Good thing I don't do this for a living.
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Come on CR-V9, you know it is hatred that makes Jesus cry. Yes, greed too, however knowing many languages makes Him happy because you can share Jesus with so many more.
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Nick GravesX
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CR-V9 wrote:
Nick Graves wrote:
:D
This Japanese translation stuff is great fun; I love the awkwardness of literal translation too. It is a conceptual language after all.
I think we'd say "so far" or "until now" - ie to date & not to yesterday's date, as the Japanese concept is.
We'd probably say "Hondas of yore" if we wanted to imply the good ol' days.
"Yesterday" is probably more poetic & vague though. Sort of lends itself better.
|
How would you phrase it, though?
"better yourself of so far", "surpase Honda untill today" ???
Does it sound alright?
Thing is we wouldn't want it to be too explainately. We'd like it keep short and crisp like the original. Because thet makes the video dramatic.
I'd like to keep it somewhat grammatically correct though otherwise nobody would understand it. But I'd also like to keep it awkwardly Japanese-ish inspite of incorrect grammer. Do I make sense?
Language is alive, ever changing. But Nick, You are the gurdian of English. You must keep it intact.
You's got teach your children English proper like. You're the last defence.
Because I'm the one who messes up your language. Pardon me.
|
We've only 26 characters in our writing. You have two alphabets just so you can write "alphabet" in katakana. Who's greedy now?
:D Great post!
There is a sticker on an electronic box in the dash of the NSX which has a message "An eternal sportsmind for you".
We've no idea what it's meant to mean, but that makes it all the more fascinating.
"Beat yesterday's best" is probably how we'd translate the idiom, but to write it in Englanese/Japlish is almost impossible.
"Surpass Honda of today" or "beat your best" sounds suitably "First Man. Then machine" to us.
It's very, very difficult!
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Chocs
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Nick Graves wrote:
We've only 26 characters in our writing. You have two alphabets just so you can write "alphabet" in katakana. Who's greedy now?
:D Great post!
There is a sticker on an electronic box in the dash of the NSX which has a message "An eternal sportsmind for you".
We've no idea what it's meant to mean, but that makes it all the more fascinating.
"Beat yesterday's best" is probably how we'd translate the idiom, but to write it in Englanese/Japlish is almost impossible.
"Surpass Honda of today" or "beat your best" sounds suitably "First Man. Then machine" to us.
It's very, very difficult!
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Katakana? As far as I know, writing "alphabet" in katakana would end up as アルファベット. A little more than two :>
Perhaps you're speaking of the dreaded Kanji, or the Japanese have a contraction of it I'm not aware of (a bit like PASOKON for personal computer).
How about Engrish: "The beat of until yesterday Honda"... Of course, if those Beat revival rumours are true, we can talk about a Beat of tomorrow :)
It is hard to get it right both ways... yeah..
An eternal sportsmind for you too.
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CR-V9
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| "An eternal sportsmind for you". |
It's very, very difficult!
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CR-V9
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Dany-san, don't get me wrong. I like you. I usually agree with what you say, too. I think you're earnest. You actually know things, unlike me who pretends he knows something. It's just the brain of yours. Where did you pick up your brain?
May I pick your brain, please? Since you know so many languages. I think you know some Latin, too. Please.
As You know Jesus christ is pronounced "yes kiristo" in Japanese, "Jerusalem" is "Urusaremu", "Jehovah" is " Ehoba".
Where do you think they have be originated from? Which language? I'll really appreciate your help on this. (Make him proud) Please.
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Nick GravesX
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CR-V9 wrote:
Dany-san, don't get me wrong. I like you. I usually agree with what you say, too. I think you're earnest. You actually know things, unlike me who pretends he knows something. It's just the brain of yours. Where did you pick up your brain?
May I pick your brain, please? Since you know so many languages. I think you know some Latin, too. Please.
As You know Jesus christ is pronounced "yes kiristo" in Japanese, "Jerusalem" is "Urusaremu", "Jehovah" is " Ehoba".
Where do you think they have be originated from? Which language? I'll really appreciate your help on this. (Make him proud) Please.
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No wonder you're confused!
In many latin-derived languages, the J is pronounced like an i or a y.
In latin, Jesus was written "iesu" and pronounced like that. In Daniel's language, it's written "Jesus" but pronounced something like "Yesuth".
English is part-latin, part-greek, part-germanic, part indigenous tribes. Thus pronunciations are very irrational.
"Jehovah" is a corruption of the Hebraic Y_HW_H (they didn't write vowels back then) or Yahveh, as we'd write it. But again, the Spanish pronounce Vs like Bs. As in the Honda Vamos - or "Bamosh" as it should be written in English (which of course is always right).
I should imagine the Japanese have selected a version that they find possible to pronounce easiest and then attach the correct ending. As in the Honda Regendo, for example.
One example I know comes directly from German; "arubietu" for work (Arbeit).
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CR-V9
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Nick Graves wrote:
CR-V9 wrote:
Dany-san, don't get me wrong. I like you. I usually agree with what you say, too. I think you're earnest. You actually know things, unlike me who pretends he knows something. It's just the brain of yours. Where did you pick up your brain?May I pick your brain, please? Since you know so many languages. I think you know some Latin, too. Please.
As You know Jesus christ is pronounced "yes kiristo" in Japanese, "Jerusalem" is "Urusaremu", "Jehovah" is " Ehoba".
Where do you think they have be originated from? Which language? I'll really appreciate your help on this. (Make him proud) Please.
|
No wonder you're confused!
In many latin-derived languages, the J is pronounced like an i or a y.
In latin, Jesus was written "iesu" and pronounced like that. In Daniel's language, it's written "Jesus" but pronounced something like "Yesuth".
English is part-latin, part-greek, part-germanic, part indigenous tribes. Thus pronunciations are very irrational.
"Jehovah" is a corruption of the Hebraic Y_HW_H (they didn't write vowels back then) or Yahveh, as we'd write it. But again, the Spanish pronounce Vs like Bs. As in the Honda Vamos - or "Bamosh" as it should be written in English (which of course is always right).
I should imagine the Japanese have selected a version that they find possible to pronounce easiest and then attach the correct ending. As in the Honda Regendo, for example.
One example I know comes directly from German; "arubietu" for work (Arbeit).
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No wonder you like my Japaninglish. First time when I was here, a guy came up to me and asked me "Do you know Jesus?" (which of course is the right way) I had no idea what he was talking about. He had no idea why I didn't understand 'Jesus', either. It was eye opening ever since.
I hated history when I was in school. Now, I'm fascinated by it. For example, 'troubadour', I had no idea what it was. I kind of understand what it is now when I learned it was originated during the Crusades, and read the story about it.
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