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Ganplosive
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It's becoming pretty clear that TOV is divided on this car. One can almost draw a line down the middle and separate out the camps.
One one side, you have the "Why would anyone pay 8k for a civic?" group, and on the other you have the "Stop comparing this car to the Civic group".
Opinions aside, I think the fact that there's this many people being split on this car HERE is a good thing. I'm reading some people absolutely disgusted with spending more for a gussied up civic, and I'm also reading people willing to fork over the cash to get the niceties. Let's be clear about one thing: Honda's wasn't out to market a car that's going to smash the civic to bits and pieces. In fact, it's a good thing that people are still finding the Civic a better value. Honestly if the ILX was hands down better than the civic in every single possible way and priced similarly, why would anyone still buy civics?
Other than the fact that the 2.4 was packaged horribly (No audio, navi, and exclusion of the LSD. I mean at least make it an OPTION I don't care if only 1 guy out there wants to buy it, how hard is it to put it in?) I think they're doing a pretty damn good job in terms of finally providing options to people. Much of luxury, after all, is about having options.
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atomiclightbulb
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What I don't understand is why the ILX being built on the same platform as the Civic is a bad thing. The only thing this means is that placement of some components is the same. It doesn't mean they are the same vehicle. The CR-V is designed around the Civic platform. Does this mean the CR-V is a Civic? Is the RDX a Civic?
The ILX has a unique unibody (unlike the Canadian CSX, which was largely identical to the 8G USDM Civic), higher quality suspension, and vastly different interior. Sure, the powertrains are related (R20) or the same (K24, hybrid), but the same could be said of other Acura vehicles and their Honda counterparts.
I understand that people want more performance vehicles from Honda and Acura, and I agree with them. I just don't see why this has to result in trashing of a vehicle that is well-designed for its intended purpose. This is like criticizing an iPhone for not being a gaming laptop.
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Genovelle
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It is quite expensive to make an unpopular model, thats why they kill trim levels. Acura's production system is designed to build models without options to increase quality, efficiency and lower cost. That's why there are no factory options. Each of these is a different model that will be reflected in its vin number. It's the same for Hondas. Keeping it simple they can build more and this is what allows them to offer it at all. Other wise they could not justify building it.
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dominik331
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atomiclightbulb wrote:
What I don't understand is why the ILX being built on the same platform as the Civic is a bad thing. The only thing this means is that placement of some components is the same. It doesn't mean they are the same vehicle. The CR-V is designed around the Civic platform. Does this mean the CR-V is a Civic? Is the RDX a Civic?
The ILX has a unique unibody (unlike the Canadian CSX, which was largely identical to the 8G USDM Civic), higher quality suspension, and vastly different interior. Sure, the powertrains are related (R20) or the same (K24, hybrid), but the same could be said of other Acura vehicles and their Honda counterparts.
I understand that people want more performance vehicles from Honda and Acura, and I agree with them. I just don't see why this has to result in trashing of a vehicle that is well-designed for its intended purpose. This is like criticizing an iPhone for not being a gaming laptop.
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Try to explain this to the engineers on this site and other blogs.
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Ganplosive
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Genovelle wrote:
It is quite expensive to make an unpopular model, thats why they kill trim levels. Acura's production system is designed to build models without options to increase quality, efficiency and lower cost. That's why there are no factory options. Each of these is a different model that will be reflected in its vin number. It's the same for Hondas. Keeping it simple they can build more and this is what allows them to offer it at all. Other wise they could not justify building it.
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hmmm lots of truth in that. I knew it had something to do with supplier factory issues, and streamlined processes and I even went as far as arguing (a couple months back) that the ILX 2.4 was shafted because they didn't want to dedicate another line to put in the tech and LSD. Long story short, does sound like bean counting at work.
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Ganplosive
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atomiclightbulb wrote:
What I don't understand is why the ILX being built on the same platform as the Civic is a bad thing. The only thing this means is that placement of some components is the same. It doesn't mean they are the same vehicle. The CR-V is designed around the Civic platform. Does this mean the CR-V is a Civic? Is the RDX a Civic?
The ILX has a unique unibody (unlike the Canadian CSX, which was largely identical to the 8G USDM Civic), higher quality suspension, and vastly different interior. Sure, the powertrains are related (R20) or the same (K24, hybrid), but the same could be said of other Acura vehicles and their Honda counterparts.
I understand that people want more performance vehicles from Honda and Acura, and I agree with them. I just don't see why this has to result in trashing of a vehicle that is well-designed for its intended purpose. This is like criticizing an iPhone for not being a gaming laptop.
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You know I echoed the same sentiment back on the original ILX reveal thread. Clearly this car just isn't the Integra reborn. Just like the CRZ isn't the CRX reborn. The brand is going in new directions so while I'm fairly disappointed, I thought the cars still contained enough merits to justify their own existence. Hundreds of posts and troll-wars later, I've decided to just tell people to go out and be happy. Go buy the car you want, and vote with your wallets. I even posted a long ass thread about the BRZ/FRS and saying how it has everything everyone here wants - RWD, 200 I4 boxer, LSD, tuned suspension, for low low price of 25k+. Like there ARE options out there people, no one is holding "you" at gunpoint in the Acura dealership.
While this car may not appeal to ME, or YOU, or anyone else on this website, it will find homes. I'm not going to bring myself down to the level of finding every ILX driver and calling him/her a dumbass for buying a more expensive Civic. I think this car has enough difference to set it apart from the civic and the buyer thought it was enough to justify the purchase. What's it to anyone else anyways?
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HondaFan1990
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Finally a post with some actual logic and thought placed into it. You'd swear the ILX was the plage the way it's debated on here so badly.
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atomiclightbulb
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Ganplosive wrote:
Hundreds of posts and troll-wars later, I've decided to just tell people to go out and be happy. Go buy the car you want, and vote with your wallets. I even posted a long ass thread about the BRZ/FRS and saying how it has everything everyone here wants - RWD, 200 I4 boxer, LSD, tuned suspension, for low low price of 25k+. Like there ARE options out there people, no one is holding "you" at gunpoint in the Acura dealership. |
I think with the reviews out, people here have pretty much made up their minds.
We can only wait for the sales figures.
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luder715
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Its not bad that a bad thing that its built on a civic platform, most cars are products of platform sharing. Its the fact they make a "sport" model (that is clearly the same car almost as the Si) in manual only that is 4550-6650 more do not include a Limited Slip differential and do not include "top model" ILX equipment in it No Technology package. In all honestly mechanically and handling wise it the Si outperforms it handling and performance wise.
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integrator
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atomiclightbulb wrote:
What I don't understand is why the ILX being built on the same platform as the Civic is a bad thing. The only thing this means is that placement of some components is the same. It doesn't mean they are the same vehicle. The CR-V is designed around the Civic platform. Does this mean the CR-V is a Civic? Is the RDX a Civic?
The ILX has a unique unibody (unlike the Canadian CSX, which was largely identical to the 8G USDM Civic), higher quality suspension, and vastly different interior. Sure, the powertrains are related (R20) or the same (K24, hybrid), but the same could be said of other Acura vehicles and their Honda counterparts.
I understand that people want more performance vehicles from Honda and Acura, and I agree with them. I just don't see why this has to result in trashing of a vehicle that is well-designed for its intended purpose. This is like criticizing an iPhone for not being a gaming laptop.
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When TOV'ers say they want a small performance luxury car, Honda/Acura will point to the ILX 2.4L MT. Just like they point to the CRZ/Civic Si as their 'sporty' car for Honda.
Being built on the Civic platform isn't really an issue... its what they made from that platform. And Honda product development has become lazy and more recently cash strapped...so we'll see more rehash than redeveloped.
Honda/Acura hasnt been able to bring together the right mix in a while, so many core buyers (including TOV'ers) aren't returning.... but it has nothing to do with platform sharing. They have many cars with 'intended purposes' that aren't working out and I don't just mean the performance cars.
I'm surprised more of us here don't think Honda/Acura are in real crisis mode. The ILX was a hurried idea that didn't get all the mojo needed to pull Acura from the brink (and that comment has nothing to do with RWD or a 240hp engine). I just dont think the managerial talent exists in Am Honda anymore to allow the technical talent to flourish.
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Hondarulez
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luder715 wrote:
Its not bad that a bad thing that its built on a civic platform, most cars are products of platform sharing. Its the fact they make a "sport" model (that is clearly the same car almost as the Si) in manual only that is 4550-6650 more do not include a Limited Slip differential and do not include "top model" ILX equipment in it No Technology package. In all honestly mechanically and handling wise it the Si outperforms it handling and performance wise.
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I'm also disappointed with the fact that the ILX 2.4 does not come with LSD, tech package, as well as AT.
IMO, the ILX 2.4 isn't exactly a sport model like a Civic Si, where some people might take it out to a track to race. It simply offers more power than a regular 2.0 model in the expense of worse fuel economy. May be that's why LSD is not offered. I think AT should definitely be offered. Is it that hard to offer AT? Judging from the success of the TSX, I don't think Acura will have too much trouble selling ILX 2.4 AT. It shouldn't hurt TSX sales as long as the next gen model is priced higher.
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Ganplosive
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integrator wrote:
atomiclightbulb wrote:
What I don't understand is why the ILX being built on the same platform as the Civic is a bad thing. The only thing this means is that placement of some components is the same. It doesn't mean they are the same vehicle. The CR-V is designed around the Civic platform. Does this mean the CR-V is a Civic? Is the RDX a Civic?
The ILX has a unique unibody (unlike the Canadian CSX, which was largely identical to the 8G USDM Civic), higher quality suspension, and vastly different interior. Sure, the powertrains are related (R20) or the same (K24, hybrid), but the same could be said of other Acura vehicles and their Honda counterparts.
I understand that people want more performance vehicles from Honda and Acura, and I agree with them. I just don't see why this has to result in trashing of a vehicle that is well-designed for its intended purpose. This is like criticizing an iPhone for not being a gaming laptop.
|
When TOV'ers say they want a small performance luxury car, Honda/Acura will point to the ILX 2.4L MT. Just like they point to the CRZ/Civic Si as their 'sporty' car for Honda.
Being built on the Civic platform isn't really an issue... its what they made from that platform. And Honda product development has become lazy and more recently cash strapped...so we'll see more rehash than redeveloped.
Honda/Acura hasnt been able to bring together the right mix in a while, so many core buyers (including TOV'ers) aren't returning.... but it has nothing to do with platform sharing. They have many cars with 'intended purposes' that aren't working out and I don't just mean the performance cars.
I'm surprised more of us here don't think Honda/Acura are in real crisis mode. The ILX was a hurried idea that didn't get all the mojo needed to pull Acura from the brink (and that comment has nothing to do with RWD or a 240hp engine). I just dont think the managerial talent exists in Am Honda anymore to allow the technical talent to flourish.
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HMC and Acura needs a serious injection of "car guys". I KNOW for a fact that much of their products are now being considered in a "how much will this cost and how much profit will it bring us?" FIRST AND FOREMOST, and then they try to add ""some" driving fun.
Honestly, I don't know what went wrong. Can anyone serious point to low sales of any particular models (integra, S2000, NSX, Prelude, etc) and say that horrible sales have convinced HMC and Acura that people don't like to drive anymore??
They've built it before, and we've came in droves. Somehow someway, someone convinced Honda that no one is buying what made them popular, so they canned all those offerings and now remain adamantly opposed to bringing those products back. Something happened in the mid to late 90's
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Ganplosive
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Hondarulez wrote:
luder715 wrote:
Its not bad that a bad thing that its built on a civic platform, most cars are products of platform sharing. Its the fact they make a "sport" model (that is clearly the same car almost as the Si) in manual only that is 4550-6650 more do not include a Limited Slip differential and do not include "top model" ILX equipment in it No Technology package. In all honestly mechanically and handling wise it the Si outperforms it handling and performance wise.
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I'm also disappointed with the fact that the ILX 2.4 does not come with LSD, tech package, as well as AT.
IMO, the ILX 2.4 isn't exactly a sport model like a Civic Si, where some people might take it out to a track to race. It simply offers more power than a regular 2.0 model in the expense of worse fuel economy. May be that's why LSD is not offered. I think AT should definitely be offered. Is it that hard to offer AT? Judging from the success of the TSX, I don't think Acura will have too much trouble selling ILX 2.4 AT. It shouldn't hurt TSX sales as long as the next gen model is priced higher.
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I wanted to think that way Hondarulez, but then why did they remove the tech navi and els? Most people spending top dollar on a top of the line model would've wanted it all, with the 2.4 it almost feels like you get NOTHING at all.
I want more power. here's 2.4
I want more control. Here's the manual. But wait there's no LSD on it so you can't go crazy with it.
ok... I want more power, but I don't want manual. NOPE SORRY only manuals here.
OK FINE, I want the power and the manual, since I can't track it gimme creature comforts. NOPE sorry, no tech, no navi, and no ELS surround sound.
So at the end of the day you have a more thirsty, higher horse-powered manual ILX with no LSD, tech, navi, or ELS. You can't cruise in ultra premium, and you can't track it.
I'm really, really, really confused. Almost as confused as the lack of a navi on the Special Edition TSX. This has gotta be the only 2 instances where I recall seeing "top of the line offerings" lacking so much content.
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Hondarulez
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yea, hence their trim levels are pretty weird....on one hand it seems like Acura is finally offering choices...but on the other hand it seems like they are doing a half @$$ job with the options....
Then again, Acura isn't alone with this problem....like the MB C class. If I want AWD, I must get C300. What if I want C350 power as well as AWD? That's not possible. What if I want better fuel efficiency but with AWD? The C250 also does not offer AWD.
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