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danielgr
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Just FYI, Honda has updated their home Accord line-up with the introduction of an R20 powered version (only with 5AT).
The K24 one is now as a result only available in "TypeS" trim (close to the US "Special Edition" trim).
2.0L
2.4L (TypeS)
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DrWhiner
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Daniel, no offence:
I double checked the date of this post, twice, to make sure it is not an old post.
I don't think the '20TL' is new for 2012.
See link
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.honda.co.jp%2Fnews%2F2011%2F4110224-accord.html&act=url
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danielgr
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Absolutely no offence. The original PR comes indeed from end of february, but afaik neither me nor anyone else had posted it before on TOV (nor was this info came outside JP afaik, which is why I said "quietly").
I just happened to have a break for the first time on a while and thought I'd share some stuff I've read/seen recently.
My apologies if this came as a double post, otherwise take it for what it is...
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blackstripe77
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IIRC the R20 Accord was available since launch, but not in TL trim. The R20 Accord did not previously come with alloy wheels as standard. They also updated the color palette, dropping Premium White Pearl for Orchid White Pearl.
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danielgr
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blackstripe77 wrote:
IIRC the R20 Accord was available since launch, but not in TL trim. The R20 Accord did not previously come with alloy wheels as standard. They also updated the color palette, dropping Premium White Pearl for Orchid White Pearl.
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A K20 powered Accord was available in the 7th gen (1st gen Acura TSX), but they dropped the 2.0L class for the 8th gen. Here you can see the original press release for the JDM Accord, which got a pretty late release (well behind the US). An R20 powered Euro/JP Accord has been indeed available in both Europe and other international markets at lunch, but not in Japan, which is what this post was all about.
To me this car was (like so many others) caught by the crisis. Honda had plans of going premium all over the world, and in Japan that translated by dropping the 2.0L versions of both CR-V and Accord. Then the crisis came, people focus on both value and fuel economy (which is now considered to be a "premium feature" by many) rose, and we are back to where the 00's started, with both a 2.0L Accord and CR-V around the 150-160Hp mark.
Now, I'm not 100% sure this (the JDM R20 Accord) just happened now (in February), so I'll welcome any input with a link showing otherwise. As the link I posted shows though, that did not happen at lunch, and that is for sure.
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blackstripe77
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danielgr wrote:
blackstripe77 wrote:
IIRC the R20 Accord was available since launch, but not in TL trim. The R20 Accord did not previously come with alloy wheels as standard. They also updated the color palette, dropping Premium White Pearl for Orchid White Pearl.
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A K20 powered Accord was available in the 7th gen (1st gen Acura TSX), but they dropped the 2.0L class for the 8th gen. Here you can see the original press release for the JDM Accord, which got a pretty late release (well behind the US). An R20 powered Euro/JP Accord has been indeed available in both Europe and other international markets at lunch, but not in Japan, which is what this post was all about.
To me this car was (like so many others) caught by the crisis. Honda had plans of going premium all over the world, and in Japan that translated by dropping the 2.0L versions of both CR-V and Accord. Then the crisis came, people focus on both value and fuel economy (which is now considered to be a "premium feature" by many) rose, and we are back to where the 00's started, with both a 2.0L Accord and CR-V around the 150-160Hp mark.
Now, I'm not 100% sure this (the JDM R20 Accord) just happened now (in February), so I'll welcome any input with a link showing otherwise. As the link I posted shows though, that did not happen at lunch, and that is for sure.
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I really need to learn Japanese (out of interest, obviously, not to navigate the Honda website).
I am also not 100% sure, but I think that the 20TL was released with the 2011 facelift, where they updated the front fascia, dropped the "Sports Style" model for the Type-S and introduced the fancy headlights you now see on the Type-S. I am thinking that maybe this newest release was only for the introduction of the higher trim level version of the 20TL, the 20TL INTERNAVI Package? (I believe it says 20TL ［Internavi Package］ 登場）
Perhaps navi was not previously available on the 20TL. This also reintroduces the 5 spoke alloys which were dropped in favor of the twin-spoke alloys when they introduced the Type-S.
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Fan Koni
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Maybe its just to keep some sales coming in towards the end of its life and / or orders from EU just flunked and now they need to get rid of stock.
I think this car was designed wrong in the first place for EU - too large and underpowered - no turbo and only one diesel. The car is made for more than just an R20. Plus Honda got the pricing wrong again at introduction.
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danielgr
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blackstripe77 wrote:
danielgr wrote:
blackstripe77 wrote:
IIRC the R20 Accord was available since launch, but not in TL trim. The R20 Accord did not previously come with alloy wheels as standard. They also updated the color palette, dropping Premium White Pearl for Orchid White Pearl.
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A K20 powered Accord was available in the 7th gen (1st gen Acura TSX), but they dropped the 2.0L class for the 8th gen. Here you can see the original press release for the JDM Accord, which got a pretty late release (well behind the US). An R20 powered Euro/JP Accord has been indeed available in both Europe and other international markets at lunch, but not in Japan, which is what this post was all about.
To me this car was (like so many others) caught by the crisis. Honda had plans of going premium all over the world, and in Japan that translated by dropping the 2.0L versions of both CR-V and Accord. Then the crisis came, people focus on both value and fuel economy (which is now considered to be a "premium feature" by many) rose, and we are back to where the 00's started, with both a 2.0L Accord and CR-V around the 150-160Hp mark.
Now, I'm not 100% sure this (the JDM R20 Accord) just happened now (in February), so I'll welcome any input with a link showing otherwise. As the link I posted shows though, that did not happen at lunch, and that is for sure.
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I really need to learn Japanese (out of interest, obviously, not to navigate the Honda website).
I am also not 100% sure, but I think that the 20TL was released with the 2011 facelift, where they updated the front fascia, dropped the "Sports Style" model for the Type-S and introduced the fancy headlights you now see on the Type-S. I am thinking that maybe this newest release was only for the introduction of the higher trim level version of the 20TL, the 20TL INTERNAVI Package? (I believe it says 20TL mInternavi Packagen oęj
Perhaps navi was not previously available on the 20TL. This also reintroduces the 5 spoke alloys which were dropped in favor of the twin-spoke alloys when they introduced the Type-S.
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Thanks for noticing !!!
It seems that indeed Honda had already added the R20 by the 2011 MMC (link)
As you can see though, the TL denomination and wheels/trims remain largely unchanged.
They have added though the Internavi Package on the TL (including Honda's link-up free network service) in exchange for the previous "Smart Style Package". Not much news here indeed :) :) :)
Of notice though how sad is the Japanese lifecycle of most cars.
- When the Accord was released end 2008 Honda expected to sell 1000/month
- After 2011 MMC that figure had dropped to 400/month
- Now in 2012 it goes down again to 200/month
And yes, those figures are combined sedan/tourer with both the R20 and K24 engines...
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WongKN
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Indeed, I wonder if sales of all sedans from all manufacturers are this bad. The Honda Malaysia Civic product planner told me, before he left for VW, that there is every chance Honda might kill off the Civic for the JDM. Honda sees the JDM as SUV and Kei-car centric and don't really see a future for any sedan. If this is to happen, it would be a very sad day IMHO because the Civic represents Honda's spirit and soul and to kill off one of its most significant models in history... I really hope it won't happen.
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Dream'R
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This information helps to explain why the base engine in the ILX is the R20. If Honda feels there is a market for this engine in a TSX equivalent they must have felt that the R20 would be more than enough in a Civic-sized ILX which weighs roughly 400 pounds less.
I'm sure most have noticed the trend to smaller displacement motors that most new generation cars are being equipped with. Acura/Honda can easily retune the R20 for more power if the market finds the 150 HP version in the ILX is too weak.
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superchg2
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Dream'R wrote:
This information helps to explain why the base engine in the ILX is the R20. If Honda feels there is a market for this engine in a TSX equivalent they must have felt that the R20 would be more than enough in a Civic-sized ILX which weighs roughly 400 pounds less.
I'm sure most have noticed the trend to smaller displacement motors that most new generation cars are being equipped with. Acura/Honda can easily retune the R20 for more power if the market finds the 150 HP version in the ILX is too weak.
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If the market finds the 150 HP ILX too weak, especially when compared to pretty much all of it's competitors in the $30K range, they simply will not buy it!
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blackstripe77
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How does it normally work in JP - are all cars built to order, or are small amounts constantly built, leading to increased stock at dealerships? My thinking is that a build-up of inventory may lead to using exports as a method of maintaining demand...
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danielgr
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blackstripe77 wrote:
How does it normally work in JP - are all cars built to order, or are small amounts constantly built, leading to increased stock at dealerships? My thinking is that a build-up of inventory may lead to using exports as a method of maintaining demand...
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1) Get to see a demo if they have (most cars aren't available, only the most popular models in the most popular trims)
2) Get a test drive (~20min, around the dealer which typically involves city driving or at most a country road with a 50kmph speed limit)
3) Back to the dealer you sit down, get the trims explained, and choose the car you'd like to ORDER after discussing the price.
Example: I've never seen more than 3 cars (all demo) in the dealer where I bought my CR-Z. Had to find a big one for my test-drive, and was lucky I bought it early because by now it's nearly impossible to find a demo car. Basically only just released or updated models get sample units, everything else you buy from the catalogue...
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blackstripe77
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Makes so much sense - I'm not sure why other markets don't offer these built-to-order cars - it would expand their product lineup hugely.
Instead Hong Kong offers "custom" types and trims like a 2.4l Accord (Inspire) or USDM-bodied RHD Civic with no options to speak of (no HIDs, Navi, or CMBS, but complementary chrome trim attached with double sided tape) - neither of them are offered in Japan but are built there specifically for the Hong Kong market...
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