Tsx24Mivtec
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Everyone on this site as well as other sites seems to think the ILX is priced on the higher side of the spectrum and I seem to agree. At first I thought it was fairly priced but the more cars I look at in the price range(not just direct competitors), I think I would have to pass. I've been a life long Honda/Acura owner but ive been craving something new. Honda is making it easier to try something else.
A car that I think is on my shopping list that is a much better value than the ILX would have to be the Kia Optima. Fully loaded in the normal 2.4 trim, turbo trim, or hybrid trim, it is a much better bang for the buck than the ILX. At least Kia allows you to have whatever flavor you want without limiting the options you can have. I know it doesnt have a six speed stick, but at least you can buy a fairly sporty model.
Amazing how time change. Im holding out on my next purchase to see how the new accord pans out.
What car would you guys consider in this price range????
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NealX
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Like you, for $30,000 I would certainly look elsewhere and +1 on size. Until the new Accord is available for consideration, I too would opt for the Optima SX T GDi for the same or less money. Though even this car will be among the "oldest" in its class very soon...
Wait! Are those tailpipes I see?!
To my eye, unfortunately the ILX looks to be more comfortable for styling circa 2007.
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DCR
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I will get to drive one Monday. A co-worker of mine picks his Optima up tomorrow.
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Tsx24Mivtec
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I would have to agree with you Neal on the ILX styling being on the conservative side. I do think they did a good job on the interior.
If Acura wants to attract younger buyers they have to make styling a high priority but they went a bit soft on it. I think thier first step into making something aggressive like the TL before the MMC and ZDX has made them very nervous to try something fairly aggressive again. We might have to live with this. But you cant blame them, sales where not there. We will just have to live with this until Neal can somehow get hired at Honda ;-)
I absolutely hate grey cars but that optima looks so good, I could own it in grey. Kudos to Peter Schreyer and Co for a timeless design in my opinion.
Let us know what you think about the Optima DCR.
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Colin
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Tsx24Mivtec wrote:
I would have to agree with you Neal on the ILX styling being on the conservative side. I do think they did a good job on the interior.
If Acura wants to attract younger buyers they have to make styling a high priority but they went a bit soft on it. I think thier first step into making something aggressive like the TL before the MMC and ZDX has made them very nervous to try something fairly aggressive again. We might have to live with this. But you cant blame them, sales where not there. We will just have to live with this until Neal can somehow get hired at Honda ;-)
I absolutely hate grey cars but that optima looks so good, I could own it in grey. Kudos to Peter Schreyer and Co for a timeless design in my opinion.
Let us know what you think about the Optima DCR.
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Curiously, I can't stand the mish-mash of lines and angles on the Optima C-pillar/rear window joint. Most other elements on the car are nicely done though.
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NealX
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Tsx24Mivtec wrote:
I would have to agree with you Neal on the ILX styling being on the conservative side. I do think they did a good job on the interior.
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I think the ILX interior is a pretty nice place to be. But again, knowing how diminished the textures and materials are within the new Civic certainly helps elevate the ILX. If a past-gen Civic with leather and nav could be called a (class-appropriate) 7 out of 10, I'd call the new ILX an 8.5, car to car.
But then you'd have to suddenly remind yourself the that the ILX can be pushed to cost $11-$12,000 more! That just blows my mind! That's a big reason why I would NOT spend that kind of money on a car this small. It looks small. It IS small for "gateway luxury."
There is nothing special or innovative about the build quality or materials usage, but the styling, textures and the gauge cluster graphics (nice fonts!) in particularly are well done. The leather (in black) was not plush feeling and was of the same quality as in a Hyundai Elantra or past gen TSX with some fit issues in the rear. The "silver" stitching provides a nice contrast.
Rear seat room could be a problem for many. Jeff was unable to sit up straight without hitting the headliner. That's the minus 25mm compared to the Civic at work. And one could not get 3 normal-sized adults across the back as the center seat is pretty "convex."
PS: Was just reading through the ILX PowerPoint (ugh!) and see that the 2.4 is referred to as the "Sophisticated Pocket Rocket..."
Last edited by NealX on 04-21-2012 15:57
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THX17201
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Neal wrote:
Tsx24Mivtec wrote:
I would have to agree with you Neal on the ILX styling being on the conservative side. I do think they did a good job on the interior.
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PS: Was just reading through the ILX PowerPoint (ugh!) and see that the 2.4 is referred to as the "Sophisticated Pocket Rocket..."
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LMAO! 1) It's not anywhere close to that... 2) I thought Acura was trying to move away from that image?
What a bunch of morons! Acura is truly lost...
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Torque
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DCR wrote:
I will get to drive one Monday. A co-worker of mine picks his Optima up tomorrow.
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I thought I was one of the only ones looking at this car. Looks like there are more than a few of us at least entertaining the thought. You can get an ILX for what you can get a fully loaded Optima SX with Tech/Prem packages for. I will wait till the ILX comes out then test drive both it and the Optima (most likely turbo version) on the same day to give both a fair chance.
Acura decided to jump into the deep end of the pool by going for the 27k-35k segment of the market. Its the price point where both the mass market and lux market meet. This is where the ILX 2.4 starting at 30k begins to look overpriced.
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DCR
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I have to admit, I was a bit surprised. Since I have known him (8 years), he has only driven domestics.
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superchg2
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Neal wrote:
PS: Was just reading through the ILX PowerPoint (ugh!) and see that the 2.4 is referred to as the "Sophisticated Pocket Rocket..."
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...without LSD and the same suspension as the 150 horse model?
I don't think so.
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Genovelle
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Good luck with that. Until I see one of these vehicles with 300,000 miles on it heck, how about 150,000 without falling apart. I have been in the industry for 15 years and I'm still waiting. Hondas and Acuras people still buy at 200,000 miles. I can't believe you are comparing an Acura to a Optima. Time will be the revealer of truth.
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A77
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I havent driven either (have sat in both) but the Optima has huge showroom appeal inside and out - and a feature list way beyond the ILX. These Kias and Hyundais do have some cheaply finished aspects but their appeal is undeniable. i just can't see who the ILX will appeal too - too stodgily styled for young buyers, who surely prefers coupes and hatches anyway, and are more likely to look at Mazdas Fords and VWs if they can't buy BMWs. people older than me might go for it - ie late 50s and 60s...and 70s. But that's surely not the idea. And won't they buy a Verano if they want smaller.
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Tsx24Mivtec
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I agree with you geno. Hyundai/Kia can not compete with Hondas best technological prowess. And Honda has proven to me to be beyond reliable and has earned my $ throughout the years. But the fact is most owners own their car for 4-6 yrs and that type of reliability(200k+) becomes a moot point. Do I think the optima will hold out as long as the ILX, nope, but a 10yr/100,000 mile warranty makes it easy for me to try something new. Especially since I don't put to many miles on a single car since I own multiple and work close to home.
It might not be cinnamon toast crunch but the stop and shop brand ain't half bad;-)
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DCR
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I had the Saturday wrong...he gets it this coming Saturday. It is a black Optima EX.
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sugaki
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A77 wrote:
I havent driven either (have sat in both) but the Optima has huge showroom appeal inside and out - and a feature list way beyond the ILX. These Kias and Hyundais do have some cheaply finished aspects
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Kia Optima is not cheaply finished.
I've driven both the SX and hybrid, and my only beef with the SX is that the suspension is sophomoric compared to a Honda. The EX is stiff but bumpy. Hybrid version is better balanced but doesn't handle that well. And the hybrid has a really numb tip-in. Fuel economy on both are amazing though.
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Kulgan
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sugaki wrote:
A77 wrote:
I havent driven either (have sat in both) but the Optima has huge showroom appeal inside and out - and a feature list way beyond the ILX. These Kias and Hyundais do have some cheaply finished aspects
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Kia Optima is not cheaply finished.
I've driven both the SX and hybrid, and my only beef with the SX is that the suspension is sophomoric compared to a Honda. The EX is stiff but bumpy. Hybrid version is better balanced but doesn't handle that well. And the hybrid has a really numb tip-in. Fuel economy on both are amazing though.
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Yup the Koreans are really getting good at building great looking cars with decent power trains with great prices. BUT, their suspension tuning still sucks a$$.
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CarmB
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Tsx24Mivtec wrote:
I agree with you geno. Hyundai/Kia can not compete with Hondas best technological prowess. And Honda has proven to me to be beyond reliable and has earned my $ throughout the years. But the fact is most owners own their car for 4-6 yrs and that type of reliability(200k+) becomes a moot point. Do I think the optima will hold out as long as the ILX, nope, but a 10yr/100,000 mile warranty makes it easy for me to try something new. Especially since I don't put to many miles on a single car since I own multiple and work close to home.
It might not be cinnamon toast crunch but the stop and shop brand ain't half bad;-)
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I disagree that long-term reliability is a moot point. The reason is that long-term reliability impacts on resale value. If you turn over a car after six years, if there is a big difference, that still affects the bottom line. The difference in resale could climb up into the thousands of dollars and that's not something one should ignore. For example, if that Kia is worth $2,000 less in four years time, you take quite a hit, even if you put it off for a while. Quickly looking for examples of where that stands now, a 2009 Kia Magentis that was roughly comparable to a 2009 CSX is now less valuable on the used car market. A 2009 Kia was listed for the same price as the CSX but the Kia had 17,042 Km on the odometer and the CSX 51,472.
Not sure how Kia's resale will measure up four years from now but it is something worth looking into.
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S600=Dream
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Yup the Koreans are really getting good at building great looking cars with decent power trains with great prices. BUT, their suspension tuning still sucks a$$
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Along with the steering, the throttle, the seating position, and just about every other dynamic "thing".
I've driven the new Optima. An Accord it is *not* in dynamics and driving responses. I'll concede that it's decent looking and it has a nice interior...but that's as far as it goes for me.
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Cory
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The ILX has a wide price range so I have to break it down into three groups.
On the bottom end of the spectrum you have the base ILX. To me it is an entirely unappealing car even before you look at the price. It isn't luxurious, certainly isn't sporty and isn't efficient. When you see that it costs over $25k it looks even worse. It's an economy car in semi-formal wear. For $25k I would buy a lot of other cars first. Pretty much any compact with a nice list of options will cost less, have equal or more power and be more efficient. I'd look at a Civic, Focus, Elantra, Cruze before an ILX. I'd likely even consider a Jetta over an ILX.
The ILX with tech package is over $31k. It's every bit as weak, slow and inefficient as the base model but feels more luxurious with leather and some added features. Even so (at least on paper) I don't see it stacking up favorably to cars costing thousands of dollars less. This model seems to be the biggest rip off of the line up. I would choose a loaded Focus, GLI if i wanted something small or move up to a loaded Accord, Fusion, Sonata, etc. in this price range.
The 2.4l ILX has the engine I would want but still is unappealing to me. I (gasp!) prefer automatics and for over $29k the lack of navigation, or even the option of getting it, is entirely inexcusable. No LSD won't be a deal breaker for many people but to me it is just another example of how you can get a lot more car for a lot less money. I'd take a Civic Si, GTI, Mazdaspeed 3, etc. WAY before even looking at an ILX.
The hybrid is barely worth mentioning at all. $28-35k?! SERIOUSLY?!? Hybrids aren't sportscars but this model makes the base model look like a Lamborghini. It isn't even that efficient. The Lexus CT positively dominates the hybrid ILX. As sad as it is to say, the mediocre Lexus HS even looks more appealing to me.
Short answer, there are a TON of other cars I would choose over any trim level of the ILX. I was thinking solely of new cars. The list of much more appealing alternatives grows exponentially if you start to think of what used cars you could get for the same amount.
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A77
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sugaki wrote:
A77 wrote:
I havent driven either (have sat in both) but the Optima has huge showroom appeal inside and out - and a feature list way beyond the ILX. These Kias and Hyundais do have some cheaply finished aspects
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Kia Optima is not cheaply finished.
I've driven both the SX and hybrid, and my only beef with the SX is that the suspension is sophomoric compared to a Honda. The EX is stiff but bumpy. Hybrid version is better balanced but doesn't handle that well. And the hybrid has a really numb tip-in. Fuel economy on both are amazing though.
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Some specifics about cheap finishing - Hyundais trunk floors look like they will last five minutes before breaking - so flimsy. Their switch gear - even commonly used things like steering column stalks are nowhere near Honda quality. The door handle action is not Honda standard either. The engineering deficiencies are covered elsewhere. The Elantra idle on idle sounds like diesel compared to the Civic and it's not even DI. Maybe I am clutching at straws but I still believe Honda's quality is generally better - even if the Civic interior, though perfectly finished and fitted (better than 8 gen) is poorly styled and uses cheap looking materials.
But I agree the value comments on the ILX - Honda/Acura would want me leasing another from their stable when my TSX lease finishes - and no way would I consider this thing, even if it is far nicer inside than a Civic.
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Hondarulez
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Cory wrote:
The ILX has a wide price range so I have to break it down into three groups.
On the bottom end of the spectrum you have the base ILX. To me it is an entirely unappealing car even before you look at the price. It isn't luxurious, certainly isn't sporty and isn't efficient. When you see that it costs over $25k it looks even worse. It's an economy car in semi-formal wear. For $25k I would buy a lot of other cars first. Pretty much any compact with a nice list of options will cost less, have equal or more power and be more efficient. I'd look at a Civic, Focus, Elantra, Cruze before an ILX. I'd likely even consider a Jetta over an ILX.
The ILX with tech package is over $31k. It's every bit as weak, slow and inefficient as the base model but feels more luxurious with leather and some added features. Even so (at least on paper) I don't see it stacking up favorably to cars costing thousands of dollars less. This model seems to be the biggest rip off of the line up. I would choose a loaded Focus, GLI if i wanted something small or move up to a loaded Accord, Fusion, Sonata, etc. in this price range.
The 2.4l ILX has the engine I would want but still is unappealing to me. I (gasp!) prefer automatics and for over $29k the lack of navigation, or even the option of getting it, is entirely inexcusable. No LSD won't be a deal breaker for many people but to me it is just another example of how you can get a lot more car for a lot less money. I'd take a Civic Si, GTI, Mazdaspeed 3, etc. WAY before even looking at an ILX.
The hybrid is barely worth mentioning at all. $28-35k?! SERIOUSLY?!? Hybrids aren't sportscars but this model makes the base model look like a Lamborghini. It isn't even that efficient. The Lexus CT positively dominates the hybrid ILX. As sad as it is to say, the mediocre Lexus HS even looks more appealing to me.
Short answer, there are a TON of other cars I would choose over any trim level of the ILX. I was thinking solely of new cars. The list of much more appealing alternatives grows exponentially if you start to think of what used cars you could get for the same amount.
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Think of it this way, Honda wants to sell 300,000 Civic a year. Acura on the other hand is only looking to sell 40000 ILX a year. That's a huge difference. If the ILX is all about value and is priced $5k less for every model, then its sales target would be something like 200k+. Heck, it will probably destroy the Civic (and most other compact cars).
The fact is, as soon as we compare price/features ratios of the ILX against other compact cars, the ILX loses. But after reading Jeff's review, you would understand where the extra money is for. I'm not going to repeat what Jeff wrote, just go and read it yourself. Still the good stuff in the ILX doesn't make the ILX an excellent value. According to Jeff, it's "semi-attractive."
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Cory
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I did read Jeff's review. I saw absolutely nothing that makes me think the ILX is worth the prices that Honda is going to be charging. "Semi-attractive" doesn't make people want to part with $30k.
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Hondarulez
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Cory wrote:
I did read Jeff's review. I saw absolutely nothing that makes me think the ILX is worth the prices that Honda is going to be charging. "Semi-attractive" doesn't make me want to part with $30k.
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Fixed.
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CarmB
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Just thought I'd add some pertinent info regarding if one should consider an Acura product, even if a little overpriced, when there are cars that have a perceived greater value like the Buick Verano and assorted Korean offerings. According to Consumer Reports, The Cruze is a dog in terms of reliability and the Buick Regal below average. Considering the Verano is Buick's version of the Cruze, that's a bad sign for that car. The price on the Verano for what you get is exceedingly attractive, placing that model not much higher than a well-equiped Civic but you have to wonder what GM is cutting corners on to make that happen.
The Kia products are Hyundai's weaker cousins and offer hit and miss reliability. It's tough to say what you'd be getting.
A relative of mine just the other day was spinning a tale of woe regarding a Hyundai they bought a year after I purchased my CSX. Granted, that Hyundai has travelled nearly twice as far but the Hyundai was problematic within weeks of being driven off the lot new while my CSX has been absolutely stellar. Literally the only issues with the car have been that once for a couple of days the engine light didn't want to turn off (problem corrected itself and three years later has not returned) and once a tire pressure sensor froze up. That's it in 63,000 Km of driving. That's not a lot of driving, I know, but whereas I feel rather confident in the CSX (knock on wood), my relative has had a rather unpleasant time of it with the Hyundai.
I'm not convinced that other automakers have eliminated the quality gap with the two companies that have the best overall reliability record, overall, in my estimation. Those companies would be Honda and Toyota, though Honda has an edge what with some of the issues that plagued more recent Toyotas.
This is no small thing. If consumers stop putting importance on reliability, then so will automakers. If Acura works hard at making its products, right on down through to the ILX base, high-quality products with excellent reliability and the reaction of consumers is to shun that approach, Honda will stop worrying about quality and compete more on a perceived value basis. I do not want to see that happen because having a car you can count on is perhaps the most important aspect of the overall ownership experience.
The days of being able to out-feature competitors at a given price point are gone. To me the one compelling reason to stick with Honda/Acura is that they build cars that have quality in the areas that matter.
I hope that if any manufacturer in any field pursues quality measured in terms of the expected life expectancy of a device (in the case of a car that would be a decade) consumers recognize that, value it, and reward the manufacturer. This would ensure that we don't get stuck with cars that are problematic over the long haul. If consumers don't care about such quality, manufacturers will also stop caring.
The result will be that we will all be driving automotive junk and have only ourselves to blame for it.
There is something to be said for a well-engineered car and if the ILX is such a product, I hope for all our sakes, it will be a success because of it. If the car is shunned for being too focused on true quality beyond surface considerations, hence appearing to be overpriced, that's bad news.
I don't trust the competition nearly as much as I do Honda. That's still a huge factor for me. It's the one competitive edge I hope Honda retains. I have always wanted quality in whatever I buy and am prepared to pay for it. Figuring out if that quality is there, now that's a lot harder to do than to take a few cars out for test drives, pour over some spec sheets and then consider MSRP relative to perceived performance.
Obviously I haven't tried to compare other cars to the ILX because the ILX isn't available for evaluation yet and really I can't afford to trade in my current car for a few more years. But when the time comes, my main concern will be with what I'm really getting for my money. That's going to be an interesting exercise. In any case, for anyone shopping right now, take a good, long look at your options. There's more to this than MSRP relative to features.
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