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Great_Tubimi
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Neal wrote:
CarPhreakD wrote:
Right, I see a lot of people defending the ILX, making the point that other Acuras are also platform prostitutes. That's true, however, the ILX makes no effort to even hide this.
The RDX (and I have problems with that CUV too), TL, TSX and even the current RL do a much better job offering better equipment levels and don't look anything like their platform-mates. The ILX just looks like a Civic, it even reminds me of the 6th gen sedan in terms of boring.
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I'm sorry but I don't agree with that at all. I had the black 2.4 parked right next to a new black Si Sedan for several minutes, climbing back in forth between the two, multiples times. Visual (surface) similarities are essentially non-existent.
No effort? The ILX is ALL about masking its Civic origins. Still, that doesn't make me a "defender."
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By doing what exactly? I would think that you, Neal, of all people would be able to see the trickery with the sheet metal. I know when I say "it looks like a Civic," I'm saying that it would mean nothing to call this thing a Civic. I certainly wouldn't say that it's the "most amazing Civic I've ever seen," because Civic's generally don't evoke that type of emotion.
I wish you could photoshop a Honda grille onto the ILX and show it to some folks while telling them it's the new Civic. I'd bet no one would care much. They probably wouldn't "hate" it or "love" it.
One thing I think it's time to ask ToV:
IN TERMS OF BAD INVESTMENTS BY ACURA, WHERE DOES THE CALIFORNIA DESIGN STUDIO RANK?
They kept the wheelbase identical, the dimensions (too) similar, engines and transmissions (too) similar. The desperate effort "shines through" in the (awkward) proportions. I don't think anyone is saying Honda didn't TRY to cover this one up, but I think people are just calling out the kid who sucks at hide-and-go-seek. I also don't think people don't realize that this vehicle is a successful improvement over the basic Civic's fit and finish, but I'd argue that if that's all it takes to make an "Acura," then this vehicle serves as a concession to aspirations of ever truly belonging in the realm of luxury. Is it so hard to see that Honda is blatantly trying to create artificial appeal for the ILX by dumbing down the Civic?
Instead of a "mainstream" compliment to the NSX, they build this. Reviewers (that care about road performance) are already saying that the ILX has noticeable body roll, noting that the 2.4 has the exact same suspension setup as the 2.0 models. Anyone looking for that 1g TSX feeling is in for a letdown, according to them.
I just think it's sad that Honda tries so hard to change what luxury is by staying in their vacuum and parts bin.
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atomiclightbulb
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Great_Tubimi wrote:
Neal wrote:
CarPhreakD wrote:
Right, I see a lot of people defending the ILX, making the point that other Acuras are also platform prostitutes. That's true, however, the ILX makes no effort to even hide this.
The RDX (and I have problems with that CUV too), TL, TSX and even the current RL do a much better job offering better equipment levels and don't look anything like their platform-mates. The ILX just looks like a Civic, it even reminds me of the 6th gen sedan in terms of boring.
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I'm sorry but I don't agree with that at all. I had the black 2.4 parked right next to a new black Si Sedan for several minutes, climbing back in forth between the two, multiples times. Visual (surface) similarities are essentially non-existent.
No effort? The ILX is ALL about masking its Civic origins. Still, that doesn't make me a "defender."
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By doing what exactly? I would think that you, Neal, of all people would be able to see the trickery with the sheet metal. I know when I say "it looks like a Civic," I'm saying that it would mean nothing to call this thing a Civic. I certainly wouldn't say that it's the "most amazing Civic I've ever seen," because Civic's generally don't evoke that type of emotion.
I wish you could photoshop a Honda grille onto the ILX and show it to some folks while telling them it's the new Civic. I'd bet no one would care much. They probably wouldn't "hate" it or "love" it. |
Most of Acura's best vehicles were IMO understated in their exterior design. The Acura Legend and the 3G TL are examples of this, and I think they have stood the test of time.
I really don't see the ILX as any different.
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CarmB
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Great_Tubimi wrote:
Neal wrote:
CarPhreakD wrote:
Right, I see a lot of people defending the ILX, making the point that other Acuras are also platform prostitutes. That's true, however, the ILX makes no effort to even hide this.
The RDX (and I have problems with that CUV too), TL, TSX and even the current RL do a much better job offering better equipment levels and don't look anything like their platform-mates. The ILX just looks like a Civic, it even reminds me of the 6th gen sedan in terms of boring.
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I'm sorry but I don't agree with that at all. I had the black 2.4 parked right next to a new black Si Sedan for several minutes, climbing back in forth between the two, multiples times. Visual (surface) similarities are essentially non-existent.
No effort? The ILX is ALL about masking its Civic origins. Still, that doesn't make me a "defender."
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By doing what exactly? I would think that you, Neal, of all people would be able to see the trickery with the sheet metal. I know when I say "it looks like a Civic," I'm saying that it would mean nothing to call this thing a Civic. I certainly wouldn't say that it's the "most amazing Civic I've ever seen," because Civic's generally don't evoke that type of emotion.
I wish you could photoshop a Honda grille onto the ILX and show it to some folks while telling them it's the new Civic. I'd bet no one would care much. They probably wouldn't "hate" it or "love" it.
One thing I think it's time to ask ToV:
IN TERMS OF BAD INVESTMENTS BY ACURA, WHERE DOES THE CALIFORNIA DESIGN STUDIO RANK?
They kept the wheelbase identical, the dimensions (too) similar, engines and transmissions (too) similar. The desperate effort "shines through" in the (awkward) proportions. I don't think anyone is saying Honda didn't TRY to cover this one up, but I think people are just calling out the kid who sucks at hide-and-go-seek. I also don't think people don't realize that this vehicle is a successful improvement over the basic Civic's fit and finish, but I'd argue that if that's all it takes to make an "Acura," then this vehicle serves as a concession to aspirations of ever truly belonging in the realm of luxury. Is it so hard to see that Honda is blatantly trying to create artificial appeal for the ILX by dumbing down the Civic?
Instead of a "mainstream" compliment to the NSX, they build this. Reviewers (that care about road performance) are already saying that the ILX has noticeable body roll, noting that the 2.4 has the exact same suspension setup as the 2.0 models. Anyone looking for that 1g TSX feeling is in for a letdown, according to them.
I just think it's sad that Honda tries so hard to change what luxury is by staying in their vacuum and parts bin.
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Of course the dimensions are similar. Honda has set out to build a premium product sized similarly to the Civic. And as for using some Honda parts, the point is to deliver a particular level of quality for a price that produces sales. When Honda created Acura, the idea was to take advantage of decent engineering already carried out to make good mainstream products. Before Acura, the German premium brands way overcharged for their products but Honda had the balls to offer great bang for buck, dramatically altering the North American market. It's easy now to forget just how much of a game changer Acura was at the time.
It isn't Honda's approach to developing products for the Acura brand that has changed. The way I see it, when developing a car engineers and designers have to compromise a lot to satisfy the bean counters. With Acura, the bean counters loosen the reins, allowing for a product that is a lot closer to what the engineers and designers wish they could create. Think of the ILX as the Civic these folks can produce when they don't have to meet such stringent requirements regarding MSRP.
Even so, with the TSX already established, there is a price point that has been set and so there are still compromises required. Even if the TSX wasn't there, there is a limit to how much Honda can charge for a compact sedan. Go beyond that limit and there are more respected brands that would appeal more.
The ILX doesn't have to be a class-leading product because it's not at the top of the food chain in terms of pricing. What it needs to be is good enough to entice consumers into, for lack of a better word, settling. If the ILX is good enough to satisfy budget-sensitive consumers, it will do well. In other words, if you're really not giving up that much in terms of build quality and performance yet saving some cash at the time of purchase and on maintaining the vehicle, then the ILX becomes a compelling option.
I own a CSX and happen to think it's a decent car. The one major drawback to it is that to deliver an affordable product for a small market like Canada, Honda couldn't afford to alter the car enough to give it a distinct look inside or out compared to the Civic.
Do I regret paying more for the Acura? No. The engine is more refined. The manual stick far more refined. I tested out Civic manuals when shopping and the stick in the Civic feels like it came out of a Russian tractor, compared to the one in the CSX. It's quieter. Climate control vs. plain old air conditioning is a significant upgrade.
Still, I am reminded every day that what I drive is a Civic, inside and out. The ILX changes that. Sure the ILX, like the Civic, looks like a Honda product, uses a sedan body style, and is sized similarly. If the ILX seeming like it was designed by Honda is a problem, this is something Honda can never do anything about. Honda makes Hondas.
It is ridiculous, though, to argue that Honda has not rendered a product with it's own distinct look, inside and out. Everything of a specific size and body style looks like everything else if you step back far enough. And of course all Hondas have a certain look about them that is to be expected. I don't expect Honda to produce a car that looks like an Audi any more than I expect Audi to produce a car that looks like a Honda.
This is a rigged argument. It was known from the start that Honda was developing a sedan based on the Civic platform to be sold as an Acura. It was also a given that the end result would be coming in at an MSRP below the TSX. So clearly some were against this exercise from the start and just waited for the car to be unveiled to make it seem as if they were reacting to the end result, not just the process Honda embarked on. This is especially obvious considering the car isn't yet available for public consumption.
The average consumer isn't going to care about this. That person will consider the options and then gravitate to the ILX if it makes sense within the context of the marketplace as a whole. I doubt anyone would be shocked to learn there are Honda parts in the ILX and it wouldn't stop anyone from buying the car.
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CarmB
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Great_Tubimi wrote:
Neal wrote:
CarPhreakD wrote:
Right, I see a lot of people defending the ILX, making the point that other Acuras are also platform prostitutes. That's true, however, the ILX makes no effort to even hide this.
The RDX (and I have problems with that CUV too), TL, TSX and even the current RL do a much better job offering better equipment levels and don't look anything like their platform-mates. The ILX just looks like a Civic, it even reminds me of the 6th gen sedan in terms of boring.
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I'm sorry but I don't agree with that at all. I had the black 2.4 parked right next to a new black Si Sedan for several minutes, climbing back in forth between the two, multiples times. Visual (surface) similarities are essentially non-existent.
No effort? The ILX is ALL about masking its Civic origins. Still, that doesn't make me a "defender."
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By doing what exactly? I would think that you, Neal, of all people would be able to see the trickery with the sheet metal. I know when I say "it looks like a Civic," I'm saying that it would mean nothing to call this thing a Civic. I certainly wouldn't say that it's the "most amazing Civic I've ever seen," because Civic's generally don't evoke that type of emotion.
I wish you could photoshop a Honda grille onto the ILX and show it to some folks while telling them it's the new Civic. I'd bet no one would care much. They probably wouldn't "hate" it or "love" it.
One thing I think it's time to ask ToV:
IN TERMS OF BAD INVESTMENTS BY ACURA, WHERE DOES THE CALIFORNIA DESIGN STUDIO RANK?
They kept the wheelbase identical, the dimensions (too) similar, engines and transmissions (too) similar. The desperate effort "shines through" in the (awkward) proportions. I don't think anyone is saying Honda didn't TRY to cover this one up, but I think people are just calling out the kid who sucks at hide-and-go-seek. I also don't think people don't realize that this vehicle is a successful improvement over the basic Civic's fit and finish, but I'd argue that if that's all it takes to make an "Acura," then this vehicle serves as a concession to aspirations of ever truly belonging in the realm of luxury. Is it so hard to see that Honda is blatantly trying to create artificial appeal for the ILX by dumbing down the Civic?
Instead of a "mainstream" compliment to the NSX, they build this. Reviewers (that care about road performance) are already saying that the ILX has noticeable body roll, noting that the 2.4 has the exact same suspension setup as the 2.0 models. Anyone looking for that 1g TSX feeling is in for a letdown, according to them.
I just think it's sad that Honda tries so hard to change what luxury is by staying in their vacuum and parts bin.
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An additional comment regarding your post. As far as I can tell, only one reviewer to date has commented on the difference in feel between the TSX and the ILX. That reviewer shouldn't have made that comment at this time considering such observations are embargoed until next month. Don't make it seem as if lots of automotive journalists have publicly weighed in on this because they are not supposed to be doing so just yet.
I would think that we need more than one journalist jumping the queue to work with here. And it's also a question of degree. Is the ILX significantly inferior in handling or only marginally so. That same reviewer, by the way, also went on to say that if you continue to push the car, it holds the road rather well.
This sort of observation is best reserved for when we have a lot more substantial feedback to consider.
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NealX
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You may have misinterpreted me. Though I said I recognized the "trickery" I didn't say I "defended" it. That a lot of effort went in to this "disguise." What I didn't say was if I found it agreeable or not.
Remember I'm the guy who superimposed the ILX on the sedan to reveal the extent of the synch-up.
My apologies for the confusion...
Great_Tubimi wrote:
Neal wrote:
CarPhreakD wrote:
Right, I see a lot of people defending the ILX, making the point that other Acuras are also platform prostitutes. That's true, however, the ILX makes no effort to even hide this.
The RDX (and I have problems with that CUV too), TL, TSX and even the current RL do a much better job offering better equipment levels and don't look anything like their platform-mates. The ILX just looks like a Civic, it even reminds me of the 6th gen sedan in terms of boring.
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I'm sorry but I don't agree with that at all. I had the black 2.4 parked right next to a new black Si Sedan for several minutes, climbing back in forth between the two, multiples times. Visual (surface) similarities are essentially non-existent.
No effort? The ILX is ALL about masking its Civic origins. Still, that doesn't make me a "defender."
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By doing what exactly? I would think that you, Neal, of all people would be able to see the trickery with the sheet metal. I know when I say "it looks like a Civic," I'm saying that it would mean nothing to call this thing a Civic. I certainly wouldn't say that it's the "most amazing Civic I've ever seen," because Civic's generally don't evoke that type of emotion.
I wish you could photoshop a Honda grille onto the ILX and show it to some folks while telling them it's the new Civic. I'd bet no one would care much. They probably wouldn't "hate" it or "love" it.
One thing I think it's time to ask ToV:
IN TERMS OF BAD INVESTMENTS BY ACURA, WHERE DOES THE CALIFORNIA DESIGN STUDIO RANK?
They kept the wheelbase identical, the dimensions (too) similar, engines and transmissions (too) similar. The desperate effort "shines through" in the (awkward) proportions. I don't think anyone is saying Honda didn't TRY to cover this one up, but I think people are just calling out the kid who sucks at hide-and-go-seek. I also don't think people don't realize that this vehicle is a successful improvement over the basic Civic's fit and finish, but I'd argue that if that's all it takes to make an "Acura," then this vehicle serves as a concession to aspirations of ever truly belonging in the realm of luxury. Is it so hard to see that Honda is blatantly trying to create artificial appeal for the ILX by dumbing down the Civic?
Instead of a "mainstream" compliment to the NSX, they build this. Reviewers (that care about road performance) are already saying that the ILX has noticeable body roll, noting that the 2.4 has the exact same suspension setup as the 2.0 models. Anyone looking for that 1g TSX feeling is in for a letdown, according to them.
I just think it's sad that Honda tries so hard to change what luxury is by staying in their vacuum and parts bin.
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CarmB
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Neal wrote:
You may have misinterpreted me. Though I said I recognized the "trickery" I didn't say I "defended" it. That a lot of effort went in to this "disguise." What I didn't say was if I found it agreeable or not.
Remember I'm the guy who superimposed the ILX on the sedan to reveal the extent of the synch-up.
My apologies for the confusion...
Great_Tubimi wrote:
Neal wrote:
CarPhreakD wrote:
Right, I see a lot of people defending the ILX, making the point that other Acuras are also platform prostitutes. That's true, however, the ILX makes no effort to even hide this.
The RDX (and I have problems with that CUV too), TL, TSX and even the current RL do a much better job offering better equipment levels and don't look anything like their platform-mates. The ILX just looks like a Civic, it even reminds me of the 6th gen sedan in terms of boring.
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I'm sorry but I don't agree with that at all. I had the black 2.4 parked right next to a new black Si Sedan for several minutes, climbing back in forth between the two, multiples times. Visual (surface) similarities are essentially non-existent.
No effort? The ILX is ALL about masking its Civic origins. Still, that doesn't make me a "defender."
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By doing what exactly? I would think that you, Neal, of all people would be able to see the trickery with the sheet metal. I know when I say "it looks like a Civic," I'm saying that it would mean nothing to call this thing a Civic. I certainly wouldn't say that it's the "most amazing Civic I've ever seen," because Civic's generally don't evoke that type of emotion.
I wish you could photoshop a Honda grille onto the ILX and show it to some folks while telling them it's the new Civic. I'd bet no one would care much. They probably wouldn't "hate" it or "love" it.
One thing I think it's time to ask ToV:
IN TERMS OF BAD INVESTMENTS BY ACURA, WHERE DOES THE CALIFORNIA DESIGN STUDIO RANK?
They kept the wheelbase identical, the dimensions (too) similar, engines and transmissions (too) similar. The desperate effort "shines through" in the (awkward) proportions. I don't think anyone is saying Honda didn't TRY to cover this one up, but I think people are just calling out the kid who sucks at hide-and-go-seek. I also don't think people don't realize that this vehicle is a successful improvement over the basic Civic's fit and finish, but I'd argue that if that's all it takes to make an "Acura," then this vehicle serves as a concession to aspirations of ever truly belonging in the realm of luxury. Is it so hard to see that Honda is blatantly trying to create artificial appeal for the ILX by dumbing down the Civic?
Instead of a "mainstream" compliment to the NSX, they build this. Reviewers (that care about road performance) are already saying that the ILX has noticeable body roll, noting that the 2.4 has the exact same suspension setup as the 2.0 models. Anyone looking for that 1g TSX feeling is in for a letdown, according to them.
I just think it's sad that Honda tries so hard to change what luxury is by staying in their vacuum and parts bin.
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Does it matter? I mean if a Civic and the ILX are sitting side by side, isn't it about the average person being able to easily tell them apart. I don't think there's a problem in that regard.
Whether or not one finds the design appealing, well, that's a matter of taste. About all an ILX owner would care about is that a casual observer not mistake the car for being just another Civic. Whether there's trickery of sorts at play or not, it's a question of how successfully Honda has distanced this car from the Civic, at a glance. Not having seen them side by side in the flesh, so to speak, I don't have an opinion regarding that matter at this time. But that is what matters, I think.
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NealX
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Side by side, the general public would NOT confuse the two nor discern any "shared" elements.
I don't think I can be any more clear than that.
I hope enough sales are made before those potential buyers pick up a car mag, read a review and get a different notion planted in their minds. The race is on, then.
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DCR
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Yeah, you aren't really going to confuse the two in any way, unlike the Civic/CSX treatment of yore.
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Ganplosive
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CarmB wrote:
Great_Tubimi wrote:
Neal wrote:
CarPhreakD wrote:
Right, I see a lot of people defending the ILX, making the point that other Acuras are also platform prostitutes. That's true, however, the ILX makes no effort to even hide this.
The RDX (and I have problems with that CUV too), TL, TSX and even the current RL do a much better job offering better equipment levels and don't look anything like their platform-mates. The ILX just looks like a Civic, it even reminds me of the 6th gen sedan in terms of boring.
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I'm sorry but I don't agree with that at all. I had the black 2.4 parked right next to a new black Si Sedan for several minutes, climbing back in forth between the two, multiples times. Visual (surface) similarities are essentially non-existent.
No effort? The ILX is ALL about masking its Civic origins. Still, that doesn't make me a "defender."
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By doing what exactly? I would think that you, Neal, of all people would be able to see the trickery with the sheet metal. I know when I say "it looks like a Civic," I'm saying that it would mean nothing to call this thing a Civic. I certainly wouldn't say that it's the "most amazing Civic I've ever seen," because Civic's generally don't evoke that type of emotion.
I wish you could photoshop a Honda grille onto the ILX and show it to some folks while telling them it's the new Civic. I'd bet no one would care much. They probably wouldn't "hate" it or "love" it.
One thing I think it's time to ask ToV:
IN TERMS OF BAD INVESTMENTS BY ACURA, WHERE DOES THE CALIFORNIA DESIGN STUDIO RANK?
They kept the wheelbase identical, the dimensions (too) similar, engines and transmissions (too) similar. The desperate effort "shines through" in the (awkward) proportions. I don't think anyone is saying Honda didn't TRY to cover this one up, but I think people are just calling out the kid who sucks at hide-and-go-seek. I also don't think people don't realize that this vehicle is a successful improvement over the basic Civic's fit and finish, but I'd argue that if that's all it takes to make an "Acura," then this vehicle serves as a concession to aspirations of ever truly belonging in the realm of luxury. Is it so hard to see that Honda is blatantly trying to create artificial appeal for the ILX by dumbing down the Civic?
Instead of a "mainstream" compliment to the NSX, they build this. Reviewers (that care about road performance) are already saying that the ILX has noticeable body roll, noting that the 2.4 has the exact same suspension setup as the 2.0 models. Anyone looking for that 1g TSX feeling is in for a letdown, according to them.
I just think it's sad that Honda tries so hard to change what luxury is by staying in their vacuum and parts bin.
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Of course the dimensions are similar. Honda has set out to build a premium product sized similarly to the Civic. And as for using some Honda parts, the point is to deliver a particular level of quality for a price that produces sales. When Honda created Acura, the idea was to take advantage of decent engineering already carried out to make good mainstream products. Before Acura, the German premium brands way overcharged for their products but Honda had the balls to offer great bang for buck, dramatically altering the North American market. It's easy now to forget just how much of a game changer Acura was at the time.
It isn't Honda's approach to developing products for the Acura brand that has changed. The way I see it, when developing a car engineers and designers have to compromise a lot to satisfy the bean counters. With Acura, the bean counters loosen the reins, allowing for a product that is a lot closer to what the engineers and designers wish they could create. Think of the ILX as the Civic these folks can produce when they don't have to meet such stringent requirements regarding MSRP.
Even so, with the TSX already established, there is a price point that has been set and so there are still compromises required. Even if the TSX wasn't there, there is a limit to how much Honda can charge for a compact sedan. Go beyond that limit and there are more respected brands that would appeal more.
The ILX doesn't have to be a class-leading product because it's not at the top of the food chain in terms of pricing. What it needs to be is good enough to entice consumers into, for lack of a better word, settling. If the ILX is good enough to satisfy budget-sensitive consumers, it will do well. In other words, if you're really not giving up that much in terms of build quality and performance yet saving some cash at the time of purchase and on maintaining the vehicle, then the ILX becomes a compelling option.
I own a CSX and happen to think it's a decent car. The one major drawback to it is that to deliver an affordable product for a small market like Canada, Honda couldn't afford to alter the car enough to give it a distinct look inside or out compared to the Civic.
Do I regret paying more for the Acura? No. The engine is more refined. The manual stick far more refined. I tested out Civic manuals when shopping and the stick in the Civic feels like it came out of a Russian tractor, compared to the one in the CSX. It's quieter. Climate control vs. plain old air conditioning is a significant upgrade.
Still, I am reminded every day that what I drive is a Civic, inside and out. The ILX changes that. Sure the ILX, like the Civic, looks like a Honda product, uses a sedan body style, and is sized similarly. If the ILX seeming like it was designed by Honda is a problem, this is something Honda can never do anything about. Honda makes Hondas.
It is ridiculous, though, to argue that Honda has not rendered a product with it's own distinct look, inside and out. Everything of a specific size and body style looks like everything else if you step back far enough. And of course all Hondas have a certain look about them that is to be expected. I don't expect Honda to produce a car that looks like an Audi any more than I expect Audi to produce a car that looks like a Honda.
This is a rigged argument. It was known from the start that Honda was developing a sedan based on the Civic platform to be sold as an Acura. It was also a given that the end result would be coming in at an MSRP below the TSX. So clearly some were against this exercise from the start and just waited for the car to be unveiled to make it seem as if they were reacting to the end result, not just the process Honda embarked on. This is especially obvious considering the car isn't yet available for public consumption.
The average consumer isn't going to care about this. That person will consider the options and then gravitate to the ILX if it makes sense within the context of the marketplace as a whole. I doubt anyone would be shocked to learn there are Honda parts in the ILX and it wouldn't stop anyone from buying the car.
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+1.
Take away all the distractions, and we know it as fact that Acura was out to create a car slotted in below the TSX with Civic parts. What they came out with was the ILX priced below the TSX with the Acura interiors. Any other comparisons to anything else is almost irrelevant because they did create what they set out to create. It really has nothing to do with how the civic is or how much value it has compared to the civic. Again, Acura wasn't out to destroy the civic, as many TOVers here seems to have a problem with.
The Civic will remain a mainstream value offering, and the ILX a more premium modest 40k a year upgraded offering (the civic if it maintains 20k sales a month would've sold more in 2 months than Acura would the ILX in 12 months, think about that). Someone who wouldn't look twice at the civic might look at the ILX, and someone who has no need for the ILX will continue to look at the Civic. What's the problem?
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Great_Tubimi
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CarmB wrote:
An additional comment regarding your post. As far as I can tell, only one reviewer to date has commented on the difference in feel between the TSX and the ILX. That reviewer shouldn't have made that comment at this time considering such observations are embargoed until next month. Don't make it seem as if lots of automotive journalists have publicly weighed in on this because they are not supposed to be doing so just yet.
I would think that we need more than one journalist jumping the queue to work with here. And it's also a question of degree. Is the ILX significantly inferior in handling or only marginally so. That same reviewer, by the way, also went on to say that if you continue to push the car, it holds the road rather well.
This sort of observation is best reserved for when we have a lot more substantial feedback to consider.
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Well I found a few. It's not really surprising, seeing that they stuck with MacPherson struts in front.
And let it be known that no one cares about an utterly pointless "embargo." Welcome to the age of the internet. If the car is great, it will be so in a month, if it sucks now, it will suck in a month. The problem is Honda likes to play this game where they dare reviewers to call them out.
http://www.autoguide.com/manufacturer/acura/2013-acura-ilx-24-review-1970.html
Despite weighing far less than it’s big brother, the ILX feels less agile. Much like the Civic on which it’s based, the softer setup of the ILX means body roll is noticeable – the sway bars are the same on the 2.4 as on the base car. Still, don’t be afraid of a little tipping, as the car then holds on and is quite controllable.
Rear drive cornering characteristics, for which the front-drive TSX is celebrated, are less obvious on the ILX. Perhaps more significant, though, is how much more aggressively the TSX turns in.
http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2012/04/first-drive-2013-acura-ilx.html
Where the ILX 2.4 is most like the Civic Si is in the most disappointing way: body roll. This trim level has the same suspension tuning as the other models, and it simply needs more control over body lean. Without the confidence and roadholding that comes with competent body control, the 2.4's extra power is mostly wasted.
http://cars.about.com/od/acura/fr/2013-Acura-ILX-Review.htm
the ILX doesn't deliver the same handling magic that is the saving grace of it's older brothers, the TSX and the TL. And that's what really sets the ILX apart from its forebears, the Integra and the RSX -- it's almost impossible to get excited about driving it.
Here's one with some clueless guy telling a lie
http://trysomenow.com/new-acura-ilx-small-upscale-sedan-will-start-at-25900/
The 2.4-liter model is sort of a Civic Si for grown ups, with more power and sportier handling than the base ILX...
It's already been noted that the ILX line comes with a uniform suspension setup.
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Great_Tubimi
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Neal wrote:
You may have misinterpreted me. Though I said I recognized the "trickery" I didn't say I "defended" it. That a lot of effort went in to this "disguise." What I didn't say was if I found it agreeable or not.
Remember I'm the guy who superimposed the ILX on the sedan to reveal the extent of the synch-up.
My apologies for the confusion...
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No, I understood you completely. I was set off by your use of the word "ALL." I understand that you feel that enough has been done with the sheet metal to alleviate any confusion between the two models. That's something we can agree to disagree on. Where I don't think there is any argument is in the SPIRIT of the vehicle. It's a Civic under the flesh. It's like they are saying the Civic is a girl that might not be good enough now, but you'll like her once she's had breast implants, rhinoplasty, and a butt lift.
Honestly, where does it stop? Could Honda wave a magic wand over the exterior of a Fit, stuff it with an "Advanced" interior, retune the engine for a 7.1% power increase and *POOF* we'd have the MLX (Miniture Luxury Xperimental)?
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atomiclightbulb
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Great_Tubimi wrote:
No, I understood you completely. I was set off by your use of the word "ALL." I understand that you feel that enough has been done with the sheet metal to alleviate any confusion between the two models. That's something we can agree to disagree on. Where I don't think there is any argument is in the SPIRIT of the vehicle. It's a Civic under the flesh. It's like they are saying the Civic is a girl that might not be good enough now, but you'll like her once she's had breast implants, rhinoplasty, and a butt lift. |
That's not a good analogy. The items you listed (breast implants, rhinoplasty, and butt lift) are basically add-ons or modifications to a person.
The ILX is not simply a 9G Civic with add-ons. The unibody is unique, as is the interior. Basically, the underlying structure of the vehicle is different.
A better analogy would be that the 9G Civic and ILX are sisters. They are "genetically" related, but the ILX happens to be the prettier one. I have made the argument in the past that the ILX was in fact the original 9G Civic design (before Ito demanded a cheaper, more fuel efficient model). If your objection is to the ILX being a "Civic", my response is "who cares?" The ILX is well-engineered with a nice exterior and premium interior. People buy quality even if the paper specs aren't great. iPhones and other Apple products sell like crazy even though they often have inferior specs.
| Honestly, where does it stop? Could Honda wave a magic wand over the exterior of a Fit, stuff it with an "Advanced" interior, retune the engine for a 7.1% power increase and *POOF* we'd have the MLX (Miniture Luxury Xperimental)? |
Where have you been? That's essentially what the 3G Acura TL was compared to the Honda Accord V6 sedan.
I am genuinely puzzled that you ask this question or are surprised by the ILX. Honda has a history of doing exactly what you describe.
Even more egregious was the Acura CSX. It looks almost exactly like the 8G Civic from which it is derived.
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NealX
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Perhaps not enough, still.
I really do appreciate the level of emotions either way (along with the indifference) directed at the car. For me, it's been a while since my day with it and it's safe to say that in a way, I've already "let go" and moved on. I am over it.
That's certainly not to say this car isn't perfect for some - though I don't know for whom because I'm still confused by this amorphous GenY/Chinese fusion targeted thing - but for sure not for me and not at that price. H and A are not THAT valuavle to me for that money for that car, sadly, yet I have no problem with the Civic origins. That was never much of an issue for me.
The ILX should come with only these 2 powertrains: retuned CR-Z hybrid-spec and a 2.4 AT (only) with SportShift. Premium packs standard and Tech available on both. ED? There's a pill for that.
For the sheet metal: enough for the masses but NOT enough for me. I've said from the start that the ILX is perfect - for 2007. And we should be on ILX 2.0 by now. I've grown tired of the Lehman thing referenced in PowerPoints. Being true to one's self (faith) will get you through any "crisis" but this is a hole they put themselves in.
If I was satisfied I wouldn't have invested so many hours at The Factory making dream cars for myself that have no real chance in heck of ever being made. Never in the decade and a half that I've been here have I ever felt so compelled to "fix" what is (again, to me and perhaps the tens of thousands of views logged by others) an off-track design/vision. A crystal ball says only 2-3 cars are left before the Factory closes for good. A relief?
"40K sales per year? Why, certainly we meant in China all along!" Anything goes. Buick is doing well well there so perhaps I shouldn't be surprised about the Verano comparisons after all, though I never thought I's see the day...
BTW, that "Civic Girl" you described sounds hot. ;-)
Great_Tubimi wrote:
Neal wrote:
You may have misinterpreted me. Though I said I recognized the "trickery" I didn't say I "defended" it. That a lot of effort went in to this "disguise." What I didn't say was if I found it agreeable or not.
Remember I'm the guy who superimposed the ILX on the sedan to reveal the extent of the synch-up.
My apologies for the confusion...
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No, I understood you completely. I was set off by your use of the word "ALL." I understand that you feel that enough has been done with the sheet metal to alleviate any confusion between the two models. That's something we can agree to disagree on. Where I don't think there is any argument is in the SPIRIT of the vehicle. It's a Civic under the flesh. It's like they are saying the Civic is a girl that might not be good enough now, but you'll like her once she's had breast implants, rhinoplasty, and a butt lift.
Honestly, where does it stop? Could Honda wave a magic wand over the exterior of a Fit, stuff it with an "Advanced" interior, retune the engine for a 7.1% power increase and *POOF* we'd have the MLX (Miniture Luxury Xperimental)?
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Last edited by NealX on 04-25-2012 09:11
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Chocs
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Neal wrote:
though I don't know for whom because I'm still confused by this amorphous GenY/Chinese fusion targeted thing
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I'm turning 22, male, pretty much a "GEN-Y" by definition but right now I see no appeal in this car. I do see a Camry on that face, though:
On the other hand, I've looked up used prices for the Jazz (Fit), 8th gen Civic and Euro Accord. Sure I don't have a job yet, but my taste probably won't change much in 3 or so years.
That said, now that the 9th Civic is out in Australia, I wonder if the 8th gens dropped in price...
Well, it's not like I've seen the ILX in person, much less driven one (and knowing Australia, probably never)... so it's still up in the air.
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A77
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Chocs photos are quite insightful. And just reinforces my thinking that this can only appeal to oldies. I see it too much an old man car for me (and I am 54).
Someone asked for CSX sales numbers.
2006 5186
2007 3729
2008 2998
2009 2526
2010 2064
2011 1795
2012 18
So after a strong start (remember the Canadian market is a tenth the size of the US one) it tailed off. The TL sells around 3500 a year now. The CSX has beaten the TSX some years. But small cars have more appeal in Canada - compacts dominate the charts. So it would be rash to expect the ILX to get ten times these numbers in the States.
I agree wholeheartedly with Neal on this car. It so misses the mark style wise. So misses its intended demographic. Has truely bizarre transmission/equipment offerings. The idea of an small upscale civic is fine. The execution is awful. At least the CSX looked better than a Civic. This doesn't. The hybrid should never have been offered. the base 2.0 should be cheaper. the 2.4 should be the primary engine and be available with an auto and the Tech package. Whoever heard of a luxury car having its best equipment package in its base engine only.....
If Honda really wanted to keep the trim/powertrain options to a minimum, and I understand the economics of this..then it should be
2.0 base auto
2.0 premium auto
2.4 premium auto
2.4 tech auto.
put flappy paddles in all of them. Use a decent full size color screen in all of them - not just navis - just like the Odyssey and Pilot.
That's it. Then price it cheaper. Sorted. But better still they should have recruited Neal to style the thing. He knows what appeals to a younger demographic. Still, proof in the pudding, let's wait see how it does.
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A77
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Did I miss something - but i notice that the 2.0 premium and 2.4 premium are the same price. honda in canada anyway has always priced 6 speed manuals at the same price as their 5 speed auto equivalent. So the 2.4 engine is the same price as the 2.0. I just think that strange.
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atomiclightbulb
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A77 wrote:
I agree wholeheartedly with Neal on this car. It so misses the mark style wise. So misses its intended demographic. Has truely bizarre transmission/equipment offerings. The idea of an small upscale civic is fine. The execution is awful. At least the CSX looked better than a Civic. This doesn't. |
Uh, it is immediately clear when one looks at a CSX that it is a rebadged 8G Civic.
I think it will sell very well in the U.S., but I must now agree with the person who said it would likely be a chick car. The softer ride and styling (versus the more angular TSX), combined with the less-than-aggressive but very efficient R20, will make the ILX perfect for a young female accountant, physician, or other professional. The rear bench has enough space for a car seat when she has a baby. And the RDX or MDX are perfectly situated for this customer if she has more children, meaning another sale or two for Acura.
This car is going to make a lot of bank for Acura. I am sure of it.
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atomiclightbulb
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Neal wrote:
For the sheet metal: enough for the masses but NOT enough for me. I've said from the start that the ILX is perfect - for 2007. And we should be on ILX 2.0 by now. I've grown tired of the Lehman thing referenced in PowerPoints. Being true to one's self (faith) will get you through any "crisis" but this is a hole they put themselves in. |
Neal, what do you think a "2012" rather than a "2007" ILX should look like?
The reason I ask is because I actually like the ILX exterior very much. And I don't even care if some people here think it is a chick car (with the R20 I must admit I feel there is merit to that argument). I said before that I could see myself buying a 9G Civic, but when presented with the ILX, there is now no way I could see myself buying a 9G Civic instead of the ILX.
For me, the ILX has that classic "Acura" feel to it. It's clean and timeless like the 3G TL, which I still think is one of the best looking sedans on the road today. In a world where vehicles have gotten progressively weirder, with bulging fenders (TSX, 4G TL), huge smiles (2G Mazda3 pre-MMC), and swoopiness or frog-ness (anything recent Hyundai), the elegance of the ILX is refreshing to my eyes.
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A77
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I think the person you describe would buy a CRV (surely way more value), or if funds allow an RDX. Least when the baby possibility is looming. I get virtually no young family customers wanting Civics. Not practical or roomy enough. Still sales will tell their own story.
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Great_Tubimi
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atomiclightbulb wrote:
Great_Tubimi wrote:
No, I understood you completely. I was set off by your use of the word "ALL." I understand that you feel that enough has been done with the sheet metal to alleviate any confusion between the two models. That's something we can agree to disagree on. Where I don't think there is any argument is in the SPIRIT of the vehicle. It's a Civic under the flesh. It's like they are saying the Civic is a girl that might not be good enough now, but you'll like her once she's had breast implants, rhinoplasty, and a butt lift. |
That's not a good analogy. The items you listed (breast implants, rhinoplasty, and butt lift) are basically add-ons or modifications to a person.
The ILX is not simply a 9G Civic with add-ons. The unibody is unique, as is the interior. Basically, the underlying structure of the vehicle is different.
A better analogy would be that the 9G Civic and ILX are sisters. They are "genetically" related, but the ILX happens to be the prettier one. I have made the argument in the past that the ILX was in fact the original 9G Civic design (before Ito demanded a cheaper, more fuel efficient model). If your objection is to the ILX being a "Civic", my response is "who cares?" The ILX is well-engineered with a nice exterior and premium interior. People buy quality even if the paper specs aren't great. iPhones and other Apple products sell like crazy even though they often have inferior specs.
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First of all, I had thought about the "sibling" analogy, but decided to go with the plastic surgery angle because it makes more sense. Post surgery, she would definitely look and feel differently. She would also turn a few more heads and get you status points. Silicone/Saline bags represent changes to the "underlying structure" that give her an improved feel, with the lower butt implants providing changes to the handling characteristics of her chassis. She mingles a bit more at parties because she feels more confidence, but she can feel the other partygoers gossiping about her new nose. It's ok, though, because her newfound snobiness is sexy at times and she gets you in the door. At the end of the day, however, when the rubber quite literally meets the road, you'll know you're basically with the same chick as before. Now she just costs you more money and you keep having to justify what she did to herself.
| Honestly, where does it stop? Could Honda wave a magic wand over the exterior of a Fit, stuff it with an "Advanced" interior, retune the engine for a 7.1% power increase and *POOF* we'd have the MLX (Miniture Luxury Xperimental)? |
Where have you been? That's essentially what the 3G Acura TL was compared to the Honda Accord V6 sedan.
I am genuinely puzzled that you ask this question or are surprised by the ILX. Honda has a history of doing exactly what you describe.
Even more egregious was the Acura CSX. It looks almost exactly like the 8G Civic from which it is derived. |
I hear you, but I always thought the saying was:
"If it ISN'T broke..."
Acura simply doesn't get "sex." They have absolutely no idea how to make the impractical desirable. As I've said before, Acuras are simply becoming the sum of their parts. Of course, they are some damn good parts that will last a while, but they don't invoke nearly as much passions before. People fell in love with the driving characteristics of earlier Acuras, not with the Technology packages.
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Hondarulez
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A77 wrote:
I think the person you describe would buy a CRV (surely way more value), or if funds allow an RDX. Least when the baby possibility is looming. I get virtually no young family customers wanting Civics. Not practical or roomy enough. Still sales will tell their own story.
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But the thing is, the ILX isn't all about bang for your buck. Acura is not planning to sell as many ILXs as CRV's. If this is all about value, then, Acura could just bring the CSX over to the States.
Keep in mind, the ILX sales volume is supposed to be around 1/7th or 1/8th of the Civic.
On another note, I already know a few friends who are interested in the ILX. One of my friends has an engineering degree who works as a consultant for a small firm. He currently has a 2009 Mazda6. He had a CAD$30k budget and he wanted a car that is "presentable" to his clients - something that looks more upscale/expensive with decent interior. The TSX was out of his reach as it started at CAD$35k. The Accord, Camry, and Altima were too popular and bland. He also doesn't trust the reliability of American cars. As a result, he didn't really have much of a choice but to go with a Mazda6. It has a pretty nice exterior design, it's fully loaded (No V6), and not many people know what car it is.
However, because fuel cost keeps on increasing (it's $1.4/L, or $5/gal here in Vancouver), he wants his next car to be more efficient. However, he still wants a car that is more unique than your regular Accord, Camry, and Altima, with premium interior, at a price point of around CAD$30k. In this case, the ILX would suit him perfectly. As Jeff said, the ILX gets 35mpg easily, it can seat 4 people comfortably, and its interior is close to the TSX in design and quality. It also has a somewhat premium logo on it (Acura is no Lexus, BMW, or MB, but still better than Honda, Toyota, Mazda, etc). As the ILX 2.0 with premium package is just below $30k, it would suit him perfectly.
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CarmB
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A77 wrote:
Chocs photos are quite insightful. And just reinforces my thinking that this can only appeal to oldies. I see it too much an old man car for me (and I am 54).
Someone asked for CSX sales numbers.
2006 5186
2007 3729
2008 2998
2009 2526
2010 2064
2011 1795
2012 18
So after a strong start (remember the Canadian market is a tenth the size of the US one) it tailed off. The TL sells around 3500 a year now. The CSX has beaten the TSX some years. But small cars have more appeal in Canada - compacts dominate the charts. So it would be rash to expect the ILX to get ten times these numbers in the States.
I agree wholeheartedly with Neal on this car. It so misses the mark style wise. So misses its intended demographic. Has truely bizarre transmission/equipment offerings. The idea of an small upscale civic is fine. The execution is awful. At least the CSX looked better than a Civic. This doesn't. The hybrid should never have been offered. the base 2.0 should be cheaper. the 2.4 should be the primary engine and be available with an auto and the Tech package. Whoever heard of a luxury car having its best equipment package in its base engine only.....
If Honda really wanted to keep the trim/powertrain options to a minimum, and I understand the economics of this..then it should be
2.0 base auto
2.0 premium auto
2.4 premium auto
2.4 tech auto.
put flappy paddles in all of them. Use a decent full size color screen in all of them - not just navis - just like the Odyssey and Pilot.
That's it. Then price it cheaper. Sorted. But better still they should have recruited Neal to style the thing. He knows what appeals to a younger demographic. Still, proof in the pudding, let's wait see how it does.
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What's surprising about the decline is that the content level relative to price was ratcheted up through the life of the model.
I'm afraid that Acura may have made the MSRP too high to make this a compelling buy, especially the hybrid which I really just don't get. Why Honda didn't wait for more advanced technology to offer a hybrid is puzzling.
Still, the CSX is a good product and I imagine so will be the ILX, just not a car that has any competitive advantage. If you want a decent car and you want it to be an Acura, it makes sense but in terms of its place in the market overall, nothing stands out.
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atomiclightbulb
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Great_Tubimi wrote:
First of all, I had thought about the "sibling" analogy, but decided to go with the plastic surgery angle because it makes more sense. Post surgery, she would definitely look and feel differently. |
I don't think so.
You are talking solely about cosmetic enhancements. Plastic surgery doesn't alter the torsional rigidity of someone's skeleton. It doesn't make someone's legs absorb shock better. It doesn't give them better agility or more stability when moving over rough terrain.
What Honda did with the ILX was build a new structure out of more expensive materials. The chassis and unibody share some fixed hardpoints with the 9G Civic, but the underlying structure is clearly not the same. Similar perhaps, but not the same.
Implants and a nose job are akin to a Mid-Model Change, where grilles and bumpers are changed out, tail lights altered, and new wheel styles added. These generally change the look of the vehicle, but not the underlying way it drives. A 2008 Civic EX sedan does not drive any differently than a 2009 Civic EX sedan.
| She would also turn a few more heads and get you status points. Silicone/Saline bags represent changes to the "underlying structure" that give her an improved feel, with the lower butt implants providing changes to the handling characteristics of her chassis. She mingles a bit more at parties because she feels more confidence, but she can feel the other partygoers gossiping about her new nose. It's ok, though, because her newfound snobiness is sexy at times and she gets you in the door. At the end of the day, however, when the rubber quite literally meets the road, you'll know you're basically with the same chick as before. Now she just costs you more money and you keep having to justify what she did to herself. |
Again, the changes to the ILX are not just cosmetic. The general sense I get from the reviews I've read is that the ILX does not feel at all like a Civic. The ride quality, steering, and NVH are all very different.
I also do not believe that implants or a nose job generally improve much of anything or impart additional confidence.
I hear you, but I always thought the saying was:
"If it ISN'T broke..."
...
People fell in love with the driving characteristics of earlier Acuras, not with the Technology packages. |
I think there are a few reasons why Acura vehicles don't drive like they used to.
Rising fuel economy standards have forced carmakers to move away from hydraulic power steering to electric power steering. The old Honda/Acura hydraulic systems were fantastic. I know, because my car has one of those hydraulic systems. It's perfectly weighted, transmits road texture, and extremely accurate. Compare this to early mainstream EPS efforts by Acura in the 2G TSX. Not much road feel, not well weighted. Acura is not the only one with this problem (the BMW 5 series has been roundly criticized for the same kind of spooky and lifeless steering). Now it is clear that Acura has made improvements in this area. Jeff noted that the EPS in the ILX is much better than previous implementations.
Safety requirements have changed the way automobile structures are designed. The Acuras of today are heavier than those of the 1990's, because they have to withstand more punishment than ever in NHTSA tests. They also have to look good in IIHS tests, which require stronger roofs and the ability to protect passengers from side-impacts by SUV-height vehicles.
Customers also demand better NVH characteristics, more electronics, and more cabin space. Again, this alters the way the vehicle is engineered, and will change in some way how it drives.
There is a learning curve here, but I think Acura will get it right within the next few years. There are new engines that are almost ready to go into production, and Acura has shown willingness to use more high strength steel and aluminum components to keep weight down. They have clearly made progress on the Electric Power Steering.
Things will never go back to the way they were, but I don't think that means that Acura won't find a way to build vehicles that really connect with drivers again.
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CarPhreakD
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atomiclightbulb wrote:
CarPhreakD wrote:
Right, I see a lot of people defending the ILX, making the point that other Acuras are also platform prostitutes. That's true, however, the ILX makes no effort to even hide this.
The RDX (and I have problems with that CUV too), TL, TSX and even the current RL do a much better job offering better equipment levels and don't look anything like their platform-mates. The ILX just looks like a Civic, it even reminds me of the 6th gen sedan in terms of boring. |
Huh?
If I put the ILX next to a Civic, they don't look anything alike. The proportions are different. From the driver's seat, the dash and controls don't even look related. Yes, the powertrains are similar, but other than that I don't see many similarities.
Don't knock the 6G Civic!!! It had double wishbones up front! (I joke...)
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The proportions are different? Not really, they lost the steep rake and the interior is more conventional. They tried to lengthen the hood. But it still looks like a FWD Civic sedan. Compare this transformation to that between the 7th gen Civic and the RSX, or even the 6th gen Civic to the Acura Integra.
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Chocs
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I personally think they do look different... only thing holding the ILX back in terms of design is, to me, the front styling (just headlights & grille area) which looks rather.. undistinguished for a near-lux ride. After the TL beak ordeal the designers were probably a little nervous.
Same for the RLX, though this isn't the thread for that...
Anyway, for the ILX's front end I feel they could have easily done a few tweaks for a "younger" look. Besides that it's alright.
Neal recently put up a new overlay comparison... that might help.
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Vinnyboss
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in Canada...this car is waaaayyy over priced. 30K for a car that does not offer enough horsepower or interior cabin space. The styling is personal preference....however at that price range so many more options.....
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Hondarulez
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Vinnyboss wrote:
in Canada...this car is waaaayyy over priced. 30K for a car that does not offer enough horsepower or interior cabin space. The styling is personal preference....however at that price range so many more options.....
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There's a thread that talks about Canadian pricing.
The $30k is the ILX premium model in Canada. Its closest competitor is probably the Buick Verano, which starts at $22.6k in Canada. However, to match the ILX in features, you will need to start with the Verano with Leather Package, which is $27.6k. For me, I like the white pearl color, that is $1k extra. The power moonroof, which is a standard feature on the base ILX, costs extra money in the Verano, even with the leather package. That's another $1.1k. The total before destination charge would be just under $30k, or the same as the ILX. Even if you take out the white pearl paint, it will still be $29k, not a whole lot cheaper than the ILX. I also believe the Verano does not have HID, not even as an option. That is easily another $500 - $1k usually. I'm also not sure if the Verano has things like multi-view rear camera and active noise cancellation, which can be found in the ILX.
One might argue that the Verano has 30 more hp and lbft of torque, as well as 6AT, but the ILX is 500lb lighter and has better EPA ratings. There's also the ILX 2.4 for $30k and that is much faster than the Verano. Also, one must factor in reliability and resale value.
One of the reasons to get an ILX is to have the same or higher level of comfort and features as the Accord at the same price win a compact size vehicle. If you feel that you need more power for the AT version and more interior space, then the ILX isn't your car. You are simply looking at the wrong car. For instance, you don't look at an Accord, and complain that it doesn't handle like a Scion FR-S and doesn't feel as nimble.
A similarly loaded Focus Titanium is $27k and a similarly loaded Mazda3 GT is $29k for comparison.
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atomiclightbulb
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CarPhreakD wrote:
The proportions are different? Not really, they lost the steep rake and the interior is more conventional. They tried to lengthen the hood. But it still looks like a FWD Civic sedan. Compare this transformation to that between the 7th gen Civic and the RSX, or even the 6th gen Civic to the Acura Integra. |
1999-2000 6th Gen Civic Sedan:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:1999-00_Honda_Civic_Sedan.jpg
1998-2001 Acura Integra Sedan:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:3rd-Acura-Integra-sedan.jpg
I really do not think that Acura vehicles "looked" that much different from their Honda counterparts back then.
Even the Legend, which I hold in high regard, clearly had "Honda" design language that was not terribly different than Accord.
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Ganplosive
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Hondarulez wrote:
Vinnyboss wrote:
in Canada...this car is waaaayyy over priced. 30K for a car that does not offer enough horsepower or interior cabin space. The styling is personal preference....however at that price range so many more options.....
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There's a thread that talks about Canadian pricing.
The $30k is the ILX premium model in Canada. Its closest competitor is probably the Buick Verano, which starts at $22.6k in Canada. However, to match the ILX in features, you will need to start with the Verano with Leather Package, which is $27.6k. For me, I like the white pearl color, that is $1k extra. The power moonroof, which is a standard feature on the base ILX, costs extra money in the Verano, even with the leather package. That's another $1.1k. The total before destination charge would be just under $30k, or the same as the ILX. Even if you take out the white pearl paint, it will still be $29k, not a whole lot cheaper than the ILX. I also believe the Verano does not have HID, not even as an option. That is easily another $500 - $1k usually. I'm also not sure if the Verano has things like multi-view rear camera and active noise cancellation, which can be found in the ILX.
One might argue that the Verano has 30 more hp and lbft of torque, as well as 6AT, but the ILX is 500lb lighter and has better EPA ratings. There's also the ILX 2.4 for $30k and that is much faster than the Verano. Also, one must factor in reliability and resale value.
One of the reasons to get an ILX is to have the same or higher level of comfort and features as the Accord at the same price win a compact size vehicle. If you feel that you need more power for the AT version and more interior space, then the ILX isn't your car. You are simply looking at the wrong car. For instance, you don't look at an Accord, and complain that it doesn't handle like a Scion FR-S and doesn't feel as nimble.
A similarly loaded Focus Titanium is $27k and a similarly loaded Mazda3 GT is $29k for comparison.
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I'd take a Honda 5 spd, which has taken our 93 Honda Accord to 350k miles with no problems over a GM 6 speed.
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amagbanua
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Ganplosive wrote:
Hondarulez wrote:
Vinnyboss wrote:
in Canada...this car is waaaayyy over priced. 30K for a car that does not offer enough horsepower or interior cabin space. The styling is personal preference....however at that price range so many more options.....
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There's a thread that talks about Canadian pricing.
The $30k is the ILX premium model in Canada. Its closest competitor is probably the Buick Verano, which starts at $22.6k in Canada. However, to match the ILX in features, you will need to start with the Verano with Leather Package, which is $27.6k. For me, I like the white pearl color, that is $1k extra. The power moonroof, which is a standard feature on the base ILX, costs extra money in the Verano, even with the leather package. That's another $1.1k. The total before destination charge would be just under $30k, or the same as the ILX. Even if you take out the white pearl paint, it will still be $29k, not a whole lot cheaper than the ILX. I also believe the Verano does not have HID, not even as an option. That is easily another $500 - $1k usually. I'm also not sure if the Verano has things like multi-view rear camera and active noise cancellation, which can be found in the ILX.
One might argue that the Verano has 30 more hp and lbft of torque, as well as 6AT, but the ILX is 500lb lighter and has better EPA ratings. There's also the ILX 2.4 for $30k and that is much faster than the Verano. Also, one must factor in reliability and resale value.
One of the reasons to get an ILX is to have the same or higher level of comfort and features as the Accord at the same price win a compact size vehicle. If you feel that you need more power for the AT version and more interior space, then the ILX isn't your car. You are simply looking at the wrong car. For instance, you don't look at an Accord, and complain that it doesn't handle like a Scion FR-S and doesn't feel as nimble.
A similarly loaded Focus Titanium is $27k and a similarly loaded Mazda3 GT is $29k for comparison.
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I'd take a Honda 5 spd, which has taken our 93 Honda Accord to 350k miles with no problems over a GM 6 speed.
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Yup tell that to my parents who went through 3 5 speed auto trannies in their 2002 TL-S before they finally sold it at 110K miles and swore off the brand permanently. My wife's accord also had to be dumped as needing a tranny replacement at 120K miles. I'm crossing my fingers on my Pilot's 3 shaft 5 speed in the hopes it will last longer than those 2. This is in contrast to my '92 Civic which is still on it's original 4AT tranny at 225K with no slippage and my parent's previous '93 Accord which is now owned by a church member who's tranny is still strong at 275K!
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