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  TOV News > Acura Announces $25,900 Starting Price for 2013 ILX > > Re: Enjoy Your Overpriced Civics!

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adrianchew
Profile for adrianchew
Enjoy Your Overpriced Civics! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-20-2012 11:58
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Seriously, if anyone here really thinks the ILX is worth anywhere near what they're asking for it, then just go out and buy one. At MSRP.

I bet all the blind legion of Honda/Acura defenders here aren't going to bite on the ILX, proving it is totally a flop.

The TSX is SO much better value for $$$, and the new RDX is totally spot on. This ILX, you'll see $3-4k off MSRP before the end of the year plus cheap financing.

Anyone that buys the 2.0 or 1.5 ILX is totally getting fleeced!
JimmyEats
Profile for JimmyEats
Re: Enjoy Your Overpriced Civics! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-20-2012 12:18
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You're forgetting that it looks better than the current Civic.
Offers better sound systems.
And is comparable to the 2.0L Honda Civic we asked for repeatedly during the previous generation, but with better performance and fuel economy.

For these reasons I think you can compare it to the EX-L and then add on some features to make it an ILX. So maybe it's really a price justified EX-iLx or some other complicated nomenclature.
Ultima
Profile for Ultima
Re: Enjoy Your Overpriced Civics! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-20-2012 12:26
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adrianchew wrote:
Seriously, if anyone here really thinks the ILX is worth anywhere near what they're asking for it, then just go out and buy one. At MSRP.

I bet all the blind legion of Honda/Acura defenders here aren't going to bite on the ILX, proving it is totally a flop.

The TSX is SO much better value for $$$, and the new RDX is totally spot on. This ILX, you'll see $3-4k off MSRP before the end of the year plus cheap financing.

Anyone that buys the 2.0 or 1.5 ILX is totally getting fleeced!



Agreed. Why would anyone buy the 2.4 over the 6spd TSX when they're essentially the same price is beyond me. Looks are subjective but at least you can have navi with the the tsx plus it has double wishbone to boot. Honda's logic at work again.
Powered by Honda
Profile for Powered by Honda
Re: Enjoy Your Overpriced Civics! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-20-2012 12:26
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Acura engineers lengthened the car's nose, fitted an aluminum hood and set the windshield farther back to lessen the pronounced cab-forward feel of the Civic, while adding nearly 2 inches to overall length (179.1 inches). In addition, the ILX is 1.6 inches wider (70.6 inches), and its roof line is 1 inch lower, reducing overall height to 55.6 inches. The result is a sedan that wears the current Acura beak more naturally than any other car in the lineup.

So it is bigger too. probably has an Accoustic windshield for quieter ride less wind noise. active dampers, nicer interior by 100 miles, and longer warranty. Not to mention the features it has that civic doesn't: pandora prjectors etc etc.

so in a way honda is asking a fair price considering the yen.
rocky
Profile for rocky
Re: Enjoy Your Overpriced Civics! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-20-2012 12:39
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Powered by Honda wrote:
Acura engineers lengthened the car's nose, fitted an aluminum hood and set the windshield farther back to lessen the pronounced cab-forward feel of the Civic, while adding nearly 2 inches to overall length (179.1 inches). In addition, the ILX is 1.6 inches wider (70.6 inches), and its roof line is 1 inch lower, reducing overall height to 55.6 inches. The result is a sedan that wears the current Acura beak more naturally than any other car in the lineup.

So it is bigger too. probably has an Accoustic windshield for quieter ride less wind noise. active dampers, nicer interior by 100 miles, and longer warranty. Not to mention the features it has that civic doesn't: pandora prjectors etc etc.

so in a way honda is asking a fair price considering the yen.



Whats the Yen got to do with it, its being built in America!
Grace141
Profile for Grace141
Re: Enjoy Your Overpriced Civics! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-20-2012 12:46
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The 1990 Civic Si stickered right at $12k whereas the Integra GS was at $16k or so. Didn't stop me from buying the Integra. If the ILX 2.0 base was 133% of the MSRP of the Civic EX sedan it would list at $27,533. I suppose anyone buying a Civic that is more expensive than the DX is also being fleeced.

Has anyone here test driven both the Civic EX sedan and the ILX 2.0? I've driven the Civic and thought it was nice.
adrianchew
Profile for adrianchew
Re: Enjoy Your Overpriced Civics! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-20-2012 13:03
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Powered by Honda wrote:
The result is a sedan that wears the current Acura beak more naturally than any other car in the lineup.

active dampers, nicer interior by 100 miles, and longer warranty.

so in a way honda is asking a fair price considering the yen.



So, are you buying one?

That Acura continues to keep the stupid beak is bad enough, you're making that a selling point? They should lose the beak!

Active dampers? How many times must you people be told that these are NOT active dampers? Damper has two rates, NON adjustable, you can't change the rate on the fly... that's what active dampers do.

The only way these cars can even justify their asking price is if Honda threw in the K24 and a 6-speed automatic. The hybrid is a beyond joke... the CT200h will absolutely demolish the ILX hybrid in every way.

The K24 manual needs its own suspension, the LSD added back, and a technology package option.

So, let's see, K24 is a downgrade from the Civic Si.

And the R20 is a HUGE downgrade from the TSX.

If you want luxury and automatic, buy the TSX. If you want sporty without it being sports neutered, buy the Civic Si. And if you want a hybrid, buy the CT200h.

There is NO reason this ILX should even be made. If they had given the ILX a K24/6AT, then the pricing would have made a lot more sense.
S600=Dream
Profile for S600=Dream
Re: Enjoy Your Overpriced Civics! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-20-2012 13:29
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$24,675. That's what a Civic Si costs.

$29,200. That's what an ILX with a 2.4 costs.

That's a difference of $4,525 dollars.

That's the only ILX I'd own, and $4500 bucks is a drop in the bucket at the end of the day for a MUCH nicer car with a shitton more features.

Also, ehh, the CT is 30 grand to begin with (I've seen them for 35+ grand at the dealers) and real world gas mileage for the thing hasn't held up. It's also terrible to drive.

FWIW.


sugaki
Profile for sugaki
Re: Enjoy Your Overpriced Civics! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-20-2012 13:42
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Blows my mind how people can defend this crappy car. Honda can rebadge the Pinto and people here would still defend it.

For people saying Acura is more luxurious, it really isn't. Compare an Accord with a TSX, and they're pretty much the same, interior quality wise (leather is better on TSX, that's about it). Heck I think the Accord interior looks better than the TSX. Fake metallic trim--standard across all Acuras--medium-grade plastics. Acura has lagged far behind BMW or especially Audi, and it shows no signs of providing a real luxury car either.

The ILX only has somewhat of a niche because of the dump Honda brass took on the Civic interior quality. Making one of their most important models worse to slot in a pointless "entry-level luxury" car... still counting the days when Ito gets canned.
MasterOfDaDomain
Profile for MasterOfDaDomain
Re: Enjoy Your Overpriced Civics! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-20-2012 13:45
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S600=Dream wrote:
$24,675. That's what a Civic Si costs.

$29,200. That's what an ILX with a 2.4 costs.

That's a difference of $4,525 dollars.

That's the only ILX I'd own, and $4500 bucks is a drop in the bucket at the end of the day for a MUCH nicer car with a shitton more features.

Also, ehh, the CT is 30 grand to begin with (I've seen them for 35+ grand at the dealers) and real world gas mileage for the thing hasn't held up. It's also terrible to drive.

FWIW.




The Civic Si you should compare to is $22,555. the one you quoted has Navi. So the actual difference is $6,645. And you won't have the LSD. Nor do you have the summer tires option.

If Honda makes the Civic interior nicer, the ILX's selling point would be even less.

TSX is a better value - and my guess is that it will be gone soon, so that people who want a nicer Acura would have to go for the TL (or whatever it'll be called) and pay a more significant price differential.
hondacura
Profile for hondacura
Re: Enjoy Your Overpriced Civics! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-20-2012 14:13
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adrianchew wrote:
Seriously, if anyone here really thinks the ILX is worth anywhere near what they're asking for it, then just go out and buy one. At MSRP.

I bet all the blind legion of Honda/Acura defenders here aren't going to bite on the ILX, proving it is totally a flop.

The TSX is SO much better value for $$$, and the new RDX is totally spot on. This ILX, you'll see $3-4k off MSRP before the end of the year plus cheap financing.

Anyone that buys the 2.0 or 1.5 ILX is totally getting fleeced!



People bought the Civic Mugen and it was priced 29K.

TSX is higher in price cause it is built in Europe and shipped over. Do your research.
Powered by Honda
Profile for Powered by Honda
Re: Enjoy Your Overpriced Civics! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-20-2012 14:24
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adrianchew wrote:
Powered by Honda wrote:
The result is a sedan that wears the current Acura beak more naturally than any other car in the lineup.

active dampers, nicer interior by 100 miles, and longer warranty.

so in a way honda is asking a fair price considering the yen.



So, are you buying one?

That Acura continues to keep the stupid beak is bad enough, you're making that a selling point? They should lose the beak!

Active dampers? How many times must you people be told that these are NOT active dampers? Damper has two rates, NON adjustable, you can't change the rate on the fly... that's what active dampers do.

The only way these cars can even justify their asking price is if Honda threw in the K24 and a 6-speed automatic. The hybrid is a beyond joke... the CT200h will absolutely demolish the ILX hybrid in every way.

The K24 manual needs its own suspension, the LSD added back, and a technology package option.

So, let's see, K24 is a downgrade from the Civic Si.

And the R20 is a HUGE downgrade from the TSX.

If you want luxury and automatic, buy the TSX. If you want sporty without it being sports neutered, buy the Civic Si. And if you want a hybrid, buy the CT200h.

There is NO reason this ILX should even be made. If they had given the ILX a K24/6AT, then the pricing would have made a lot more sense.



NO i'm not buying one. My next car will be probably the new accord coupe ex v6 6MT hopefully with earth dreams. but thats not the issue if i'm buying one or not. BTW The CT200h sux what an Asian chick car that is.

Correction on dampers: 2-STAGE REACTIVE DAMPERS. There happy? Also, Active SOUND cancellation seen on the 60k RL of today.


You can try all you want to convince yourself this is just a civic re-badge to help justify your purchase of the shitty 9th civic but its not.

lets review!

-more high strength steel *someone said this 60% vs 55%* You deserve to survive a crash more if you pay more is the rule I guess?
-HID Projectors
-way better interior
-way better exterior no cheese window treatments *subjective*
-PANDORa
-active noise cancellation system seen in RL!!!
-2 stage dampers, + better bushings.
-acoustic glass
-wider car, longer car
-longer warranty
-more sound deadening. 100lbs heavier
-multi view camera
-sms text
-no keys PUSH TO START! BLACK AND YELLOW BLACK AND YELLOW!
-bigger engine 2.0Lvs1.8L
-10 speaker ELS surround sound Premium Audio!!!
-AcuraLink Real-Time Traffic with Traffic Rerouting, and AcuraLink Real-Time Weather with radar image maps. *not sure if civic's with navi get this...I know they have bluetooth but not sure what else.
-MOTION ADAPTIVE ELECTRIC POWER STEERING (EPS)

A first use for Acura, as an element of Vehicle Stability Assist™ (VSA®) the new Motion-Adaptive Electric Power Steering (EPS) offers a direct feeling and efficient steering performance, together with improved active safety.

finally:
-The Civic’s strut/multilink chassis is improved, with reduced suspension friction, a quicker steering ratio in a stiffened rack.


Luxury is...well the little things that you don't notice but they make your ride better, smoother, more comfortable. All these things add up. Premium audio 10 surround sound is an example of what most people over look as nothing but that small detail makes for a more pleasurable drive. i'm not one of those people who think oh the sound is good enough. puke! I need a nice crisp clean sound system.
dominik331
Profile for dominik331
Re: Enjoy Your Overpriced Civics! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-20-2012 14:38
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How many TOVers actually buy Acura cars, oh wait, Acura doesn't make cars they want, so it doesn't matter if it is an overpriced Civic or if the TSX is a better buy.

But to be fair the 2.0 it's nothing to be excited about and it was doomed on this site the minute it was announced.
adrianchew
Profile for adrianchew
Re: Enjoy Your Overpriced Civics! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-20-2012 14:48
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Powered by Honda wrote:
NO i'm not buying one. My next car will be probably the new accord coupe ex v6 6MT hopefully with earth dreams. but thats not the issue if i'm buying one or not.


It totally is an issue, if people just talk about the car and NO one buys it, who cares what you get or how you justify the car, no one is gonna buy it then.

At 30k, the mainstream ILX buyer, probably female, is far more likely to end up picking a CR-V EX-L over the R20 ILX. Or a K24 TSX over the R20 ILX. The R20 ILX is a blatant attempt at selling people a crappy powertrain for top dollar in an attempt to max profits.

Heck, I could probably talk them up easily enough into the new RDX even.

Its the mainstream R20 ILX that I think is totally a sad attempt to sell a weak, cheap powertrain on the masses. R18, R20... you get the idea? Its an R-series engine, IE... cheap.

Then again, I even think the Civic EX-L is overpriced... I mean, you're paying for some leather surfaces, but its got a sad R18/5AT combo powering it. Compare that to Si pricing, and you can easily see where Honda is making its profits from... the EX-L is far more profitable.

And those HUGE incentives they're offering on the LX? Yeah, you get an idea of Honda cost cutting ie. how cheaply they can really build these cars... if they didn't make any profit, they wouldn't be churning out the much panned 9th gen Civic in numbers as they are. Sure they might not be making as much a profit, but still, you get the idea.

Oh and to the person that mentioned the Mugen Si... cue that as another overpriced POS that never sold well. Limited production and still had trouble selling them... all show, no go. Should have just brought the FD2R here instead.
Hondarulez
Profile for Hondarulez
Re: Enjoy Your Overpriced Civics! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-20-2012 14:59
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adrianchew wrote:
Powered by Honda wrote:
NO i'm not buying one. My next car will be probably the new accord coupe ex v6 6MT hopefully with earth dreams. but thats not the issue if i'm buying one or not.


It totally is an issue, if people just talk about the car and NO one buys it, who cares what you get or how you justify the car, no one is gonna buy it then.

At 30k, the mainstream ILX buyer, probably female, is far more likely to end up picking a CR-V EX-L over the R20 ILX. Or a K24 TSX over the R20 ILX. The R20 ILX is a blatant attempt at selling people a crappy powertrain for top dollar in an attempt to max profits.

Heck, I could probably talk them up easily enough into the new RDX even.

Its the mainstream R20 ILX that I think is totally a sad attempt to sell a weak, cheap powertrain on the masses. R18, R20... you get the idea? Its an R-series engine, IE... cheap.

Then again, I even think the Civic EX-L is overpriced... I mean, you're paying for some leather surfaces, but its got a sad R18/5AT combo powering it. Compare that to Si pricing, and you can easily see where Honda is making its profits from... the EX-L is far more profitable.

And those HUGE incentives they're offering on the LX? Yeah, you get an idea of Honda cost cutting ie. how cheaply they can really build these cars... if they didn't make any profit, they wouldn't be churning out the much panned 9th gen Civic in numbers as they are. Sure they might not be making as much a profit, but still, you get the idea.

Oh and to the person that mentioned the Mugen Si... cue that as another overpriced POS that never sold well. Limited production and still had trouble selling them... all show, no go. Should have just brought the FD2R here instead.



Huh? Just because powered by Honda isn't buying the ILX..it means no one else will buy it? Am I missing something here?
NSXforever
Profile for NSXforever
Re: Enjoy Your Overpriced Civics! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-20-2012 15:06
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Powered by Honda wrote:
adrianchew wrote:
Powered by Honda wrote:
The result is a sedan that wears the current Acura beak more naturally than any other car in the lineup.

active dampers, nicer interior by 100 miles, and longer warranty.

so in a way honda is asking a fair price considering the yen.



So, are you buying one?

That Acura continues to keep the stupid beak is bad enough, you're making that a selling point? They should lose the beak!

Active dampers? How many times must you people be told that these are NOT active dampers? Damper has two rates, NON adjustable, you can't change the rate on the fly... that's what active dampers do.

The only way these cars can even justify their asking price is if Honda threw in the K24 and a 6-speed automatic. The hybrid is a beyond joke... the CT200h will absolutely demolish the ILX hybrid in every way.

The K24 manual needs its own suspension, the LSD added back, and a technology package option.

So, let's see, K24 is a downgrade from the Civic Si.

And the R20 is a HUGE downgrade from the TSX.

If you want luxury and automatic, buy the TSX. If you want sporty without it being sports neutered, buy the Civic Si. And if you want a hybrid, buy the CT200h.

There is NO reason this ILX should even be made. If they had given the ILX a K24/6AT, then the pricing would have made a lot more sense.



NO i'm not buying one. My next car will be probably the new accord coupe ex v6 6MT hopefully with earth dreams. but thats not the issue if i'm buying one or not. BTW The CT200h sux what an Asian chick car that is.

Correction on dampers: 2-STAGE REACTIVE DAMPERS. There happy? Also, Active SOUND cancellation seen on the 60k RL of today.


You can try all you want to convince yourself this is just a civic re-badge to help justify your purchase of the shitty 9th civic but its not.

lets review!

-more high strength steel *someone said this 60% vs 55%* You deserve to survive a crash more if you pay more is the rule I guess?
-HID Projectors
-way better interior
-way better exterior no cheese window treatments *subjective*
-PANDORa
-active noise cancellation system seen in RL!!!
-2 stage dampers, + better bushings.
-acoustic glass
-wider car, longer car
-longer warranty
-more sound deadening. 100lbs heavier
-multi view camera
-sms text
-no keys PUSH TO START! BLACK AND YELLOW BLACK AND YELLOW!
-bigger engine 2.0Lvs1.8L
-10 speaker ELS surround sound Premium Audio!!!
-AcuraLink Real-Time Traffic with Traffic Rerouting, and AcuraLink Real-Time Weather with radar image maps. *not sure if civic's with navi get this...I know they have bluetooth but not sure what else.
-MOTION ADAPTIVE ELECTRIC POWER STEERING (EPS)

A first use for Acura, as an element of Vehicle Stability Assist™ (VSA®) the new Motion-Adaptive Electric Power Steering (EPS) offers a direct feeling and efficient steering performance, together with improved active safety.

finally:
-The Civic’s strut/multilink chassis is improved, with reduced suspension friction, a quicker steering ratio in a stiffened rack.


Luxury is...well the little things that you don't notice but they make your ride better, smoother, more comfortable. All these things add up. Premium audio 10 surround sound is an example of what most people over look as nothing but that small detail makes for a more pleasurable drive. i'm not one of those people who think oh the sound is good enough. puke! I need a nice crisp clean sound system.



Everything you mentioned is what a Focus, Elantra, Jetta etc has....its not impressive unless you know nothing about cars.

You crap on the CT 200h yet it is far more different to the Prius than the ILX a Civic. The CT200h offers best in class MPG, an incredible interior, options still not on Acura's and multiple green technology. Its selling extremely well in America, Europe, Asia, everywhere. In America its the first luxury hatchback to sell well, something Audi, BMW and Benz tried with less success.

The CT 200h starts at 30k and ends at 42k so it starts 4k more than the ILX and ends 6k more than it Apples to oranges.
adrianchew
Profile for adrianchew
Re: Enjoy Your Overpriced Civics! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-20-2012 15:11
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Hondarulez wrote:
Huh? Just because powered by Honda isn't buying the ILX..it means no one else will buy it? Am I missing something here?



No you're not. So far I haven't seen a single people with actual interest/intent on buying an ILX, and that speaks volumes as to how appealing this car really is NOT. That people aren't even expressing a desire to own one here is telling.

FWIW, I'd buy the TSX, the RDX (although VCM gives me a bit of pause), the CR-V (still like some 3rd get aspects more, but the 4th get is no dud). No real interest in the current Accord and TL because they got to become too much of a whale ie. too big.

Regular R18 Civics and the ILX... seem like rip-offs to me, lousy powertrain. I know there's a market out there for an "Si auto", so a K24/6AT ILX is something that could succeed and sell well.

Not talking about tech that isn't already available today like Earth Dreams for the future, the K24 and 6AT are both something Honda already has. That they stuck an R20/5AT instead shows clearly that they skimped on the ILX (in a different manner to the Civic).

Bottom line we all can sit here and argue... but in the end, all that matters to their bottom line is how well the ILX sells. I predict we'll be looking at the monthly sales figures far short of that 40,000/year mark. When we get the figures, that will settle who's right or wrong about the ILX.
atomiclightbulb
Profile for atomiclightbulb
Re: Enjoy Your Overpriced Civics! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-20-2012 15:13
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Hondarulez wrote:
Huh? Just because powered by Honda isn't buying the ILX..it means no one else will buy it? Am I missing something here?


You're not missing anything here. Seriously.
HondaFan1990
Profile for HondaFan1990
Re: Enjoy Your Overpriced Civics! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-20-2012 15:53
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Question: Who has driven the new ILX besides the top dogs on here? No one? I'm guessing no one......but correct me if I'm wrong. So how can anyone say the car is bad or a just a tarted up Civic if you've never actually sat in a production vehicle, started it up and driven it somewhere? You can't. Reading the specs, judging it based on whatever criteria fits your logic for it to be a "failure" and all that other stuff means nothing on April 20th 2012 when in fact the car isn't at dealers yet for anyone to say what the damn thing is. Until you drive it, it honestly just comes across as an assumed opinion just for the sake of being negative. And from the reviews I read, response is positive so far.

I'm all for saying it sucks after you've driven it and formed an opinion based on something real, but until then......no.
Kool Aid
Profile for Kool Aid
Re: Enjoy Your Overpriced Civics! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-20-2012 15:59
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HondaFan1990 wrote:
Question: Who has driven the new ILX besides the top dogs on here? No one? I'm guessing no one......but correct me if I'm wrong. So how can anyone say the car is bad or a just a tarted up Civic if you've never actually sat in a production vehicle, started it up and driven it somewhere? You can't. Reading the specs, judging it based on whatever criteria fits your logic for it to be a "failure" and all that other stuff means nothing on April 20th 2012 when in fact the car isn't at dealers yet for anyone to say what the damn thing is. Until you drive it, it honestly just comes across as an assumed opinion just for the sake of being negative. And from the reviews I read, response is positive so far.

I'm all for saying it sucks after you've driven it and formed an opinion based on something real, but until then......no.


That kind of logic is not welcome here! TOV: The only fan site on the internet where if you're a FAN, you're a troll. ;-)
Hondarulez
Profile for Hondarulez
Re: Enjoy Your Overpriced Civics! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-20-2012 16:07
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adrianchew wrote:
Hondarulez wrote:
Huh? Just because powered by Honda isn't buying the ILX..it means no one else will buy it? Am I missing something here?



No you're not. So far I haven't seen a single people with actual interest/intent on buying an ILX, and that speaks volumes as to how appealing this car really is NOT. That people aren't even expressing a desire to own one here is telling.

FWIW, I'd buy the TSX, the RDX (although VCM gives me a bit of pause), the CR-V (still like some 3rd get aspects more, but the 4th get is no dud). No real interest in the current Accord and TL because they got to become too much of a whale ie. too big.

Regular R18 Civics and the ILX... seem like rip-offs to me, lousy powertrain. I know there's a market out there for an "Si auto", so a K24/6AT ILX is something that could succeed and sell well.

Not talking about tech that isn't already available today like Earth Dreams for the future, the K24 and 6AT are both something Honda already has. That they stuck an R20/5AT instead shows clearly that they skimped on the ILX (in a different manner to the Civic).

Bottom line we all can sit here and argue... but in the end, all that matters to their bottom line is how well the ILX sells. I predict we'll be looking at the monthly sales figures far short of that 40,000/year mark. When we get the figures, that will settle who's right or wrong about the ILX.



I don't know about the others. I personally is interested in the ILX based on what I see and the reviews I have seen. Of course, I must test drive it first before making any conclusion. Also, I'd prefer waiting for the ED engines as the current powertrains will be phased out pretty soon.
atomiclightbulb
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Re: Enjoy Your Overpriced Civics! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-20-2012 16:20
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Kool Aid wrote:
That kind of logic is not welcome here! TOV: The only fan site on the internet where if you're a FAN, you're a troll. ;-)


Reasoned argument is one thing that is generally very lacking at ToV.

The whole bullshit of "well you can get all that in a Jetta!!!" is just one example if the intellectual laziness that goes on here. More often than not, what happens is that these people's ridiculous statements get utterly discredited, and then they slink off in silence.

It's actually pretty contemptible.
adrianchew
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Re: Enjoy Your Overpriced Civics! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-20-2012 16:20
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HondaFan1990 wrote:
I'm all for saying it sucks after you've driven it and formed an opinion based on something real, but until then......no.


Thing is that spec sheet sells cars... if you can't interest people enough to even try it out, its already failed to sell itself. And besides the ride quality, there's really not much of an unknown here... the K24 and R20, 6MT, 5AT... none of these are new.

Plus people read reviews too. Stuff written like "not quite at TSX levels" is a big ding IMO, given how attractive the TSX is in comparison pricing-wise.

If you notice, the biggest complains on the ILX... R20, 5AT, no LSD in K24, no tech package in K24. Don't have to drive the car to tell that the R20 is definitely going to be lacking in acceleration, and no LSD, again that's a no brainer, neither is the lack of the navi.

Plus reviewers have already noted the suspension on the K24 is too softly sprung. Again, that's what happens when you just have one level of tuning.

And how about a proper tailpipe? They look good. Under bumper just screams of cheap.

They did a lot with the ILX, but killed it with the lousy powertrain choices, cheaped out exhaust and the K24 manual looks like a sad afterthought (when it should have been made its own special model with specific tuning).
atomiclightbulb
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Re: Enjoy Your Overpriced Civics! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-20-2012 16:38
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From the very top tier VW Jetta GLI Autobahn:

http://www.vw.com/en/models/jetta/trims-specs.suffix.html/pageindex=3.html#/tab=c46e823e9c05f351c4353ee71ccaa5e0

No Text capability. No Pandora compatibility.

http://www.vw.com/en/models/jetta/trims-specs.suffix.html/pageindex=3.html#/tab=5899084c0c631681feec6f87e9154779

Halogen headlights. No HIDs. They aren't even projectors. See for yourself: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1112_2012_volkswagen_jetta_gli_autobahn_first_test/large_photo_01.html

No integration of the windshield wipers and the headlights.

Forget about power seats. 6-way adjustable only. Even on the very top navigation trim.

Seriously, it would have taken 5 minutes to look at the Jetta specs and determine that the ILX does offer features that cannot be had on the Jetta.

Ridiculous.
Kool Aid
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Re: Enjoy Your Overpriced Civics! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-20-2012 16:44
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adrianchew wrote:
Thing is that spec sheet sells cars...

To you, some people never read them.

adrianchew wrote:
is definitely going to be lacking in acceleration
To you, for person buying a 2.0AT, 0-60 in 8-8.5 seconds might meet expectations.

adrianchew wrote:
Plus reviewers have already noted the suspension on the K24 is too softly sprung.
To them, maybe the Civic is tuned to be stiffer and this is going to offer a firm but slightly more compliant ride. Honda is providing choice for customers, something they're often accused of NOT doing often enough.

adrianchew wrote:
And how about a proper tailpipe? They look good. Under bumper just screams of cheap.
To you... some never notice till it's pointed out. So all I'm saying is that most of these things are subjective, and while for you it's a 'no brainer' for others a test drive will go a long way to helping them decide if the extra cost is worth it to THEM.

atomiclightbulb
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Re: Enjoy Your Overpriced Civics! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-20-2012 16:48
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adrianchew wrote:
Thing is that spec sheet sells cars...


This is fundamentally incorrect in my experience, whether the product is a mobile phone or an automobile.

Spec sheets do not sell products. Good design sells products.

Apple products are a prime example of this. The iPhone has often been out-classed on spec sheets by its Android competitors: they usually have larger displays, higher GHz processors, and sometimes much faster LTE radios. Yet the iPhone is still regarded as a premium product on a higher tier than Android products.

Spec sheets filled with check lists do not have emotional appeal.

Sheet metal and interior balance matter much more.

Look at the 4G TL. More power than before, SH-AWD, ACE body structure, a zillion reasons that it should have beaten the 3G TL, and yet it was a comparative flop. Design matters. The sheet metal was unappealing. The steering sucked.

Sheet metal gets people in the door. The interior and how the car "feels" on the road gets them to sign for the keys and drive home with the vehicle.
PWM
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Re: Enjoy Your Overpriced Civics! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-20-2012 16:53
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Why is being better than a Jetta or Focus an even an accomplishment (which appears to be somewhat debatable in the case of the focus)? Is that how low people's expectations are now? Compare Hondas to VW and Ford. Compare Acura to their actual competitors (1 series, A3, IS, etc).

Comparing it to the Focus and claiming the ILX offers more is like comparing the Accord to an S class and claiming its a better because its only 1/4 the price. Dumb dumb dumb.
Colin
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Re: Enjoy Your Overpriced Civics! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-20-2012 17:32
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PWM wrote:
Why is being better than a Jetta or Focus an even an accomplishment.

Maybe because these cars are aspiring to move into the 'near luxury' range with their mainstream brands/models. The bottom line (IMO) is that "small premium" is an unproven market in the US. Whereas it's already accepted in Europe where (apparently) you can buy even the smallest cars and option them to your hearts desire making for some pretty expensive small cars.

In NA, people continue to equate 'premium' with BIG, and it remains to be seen how well manufacturers will fare trying to move the buying public's perception. It could be that 'small premium' will fall on the mass market side and Focus Titaniums will be the eventual winner, maybe the ILX and A3 sales model will win? Maybe it'll be a blend of the two, with each gaining traction with different customers?
adrianchew
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Re: Enjoy Your Overpriced Civics! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-20-2012 17:33
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atomiclightbulb wrote:
Sheet metal gets people in the door. The interior and how the car "feels" on the road gets them to sign for the keys and drive home with the vehicle.


Uh, the ILX looks much like a Jetta. You may not like the comparison, but that is what it looks like. Plus an exposed tailpipe is another design statement... cars tend to play this design aspect, not hide it away.

And if they followed the latest trends of looks, they'd definitely work in some LEDs into the headlamps.

Cars aren't phones though, spec sheets do matter to gearheads. The ILX is a failure here, as far as attracting old Integra/RSX owners back to Acura ownership. But then again, we already know that the management has decided this crowd isn't worth it... even though its just plain stupid business sense to disregard past owners.

And if you want pure sheetmetal sexiness in this sized car, the ILX has nothing over the IS. That car is just plain sexy in comparison to the ILX. I test drove an IS350 back when it first came out, damm well nearly bought one too even though it was way more money than I wanted to spend. Sure costs a whole lot more than the ILX, but if you want to do luxury, you get the IS.

Yup, the ILX is like a cheap PC ultrabook trying to be like the Macbook Air. Neither here, nor there. If they had made the value side a bit better, it might stand a decent chance, but certainly not with the R20.

You're not suggesting the ILX has really good sheetmetal I hope? The beak still doesn't do it any favors, the styling isn't terribly offensive as the TL might have been, but its so totally ho hum non special.
Colin
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Re: Enjoy Your Overpriced Civics! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-20-2012 17:49
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adrianchew wrote:
The ILX is a failure here, as far as attracting old Integra/RSX owners back to Acura ownership. But then again, we already know that the management has decided this crowd isn't worth it... even though its just plain stupid business sense to disregard past owners.

This makes no sense. That generation of owners are NOT buying cars like the ILX anymore. They have families and have moved on to SUVs or Minivans. Those of that generation that are single or with no kids have moved on to more powerful RWD cars from BMW, Infiniti or Lexus. So yes, Acura has not provided for those buyers because there are no RWD cars, but they have met many of those clients needs with the van and SUV offerings.

The ILX is for the next generation of entry level buyers. Kinda like where we were 20 years ago. It remains to be seen if it will fulfill these buyers' needs, but I think it has a chance of meeting some people's expectations even it it excludes us on TOV.
 
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