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NSXforever
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JMU R1 wrote:
dho wrote:
TIMHO, It absolutely IS more boring than any of the ones you mentioned.
for a car that was just redesigned. Those other ones are designs from a few years ago.
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Ah ha! Now you're backpedaling. Now you're saying it's boring only because the RL was redesigned this year and not because it is more boring than the other cars in its segment. But as CarPhreakD pointed out, several of the other cars were redesigned in the last year, so it's not like the RL is up against 5 year old designs.
Maybe the styling isn't to everyone's liking but it certainly isn't the most boring car in the segment (that'd be the GS IMO). And more importantly, the RLX's styling makes it look like it belongs in that segment.
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The styling has gotten beat up most everywhere for being uninspired and still Accord looking mixed with GS/ILX/etc etc cues. Let us hope in person it translates better and remember this is a concept with short bumpers. Production cars will have larger bumpers for safety reasons, it won't have those huge brakes or 20" wheels and more wheel gap.
It simply does not say "this is a brand new $50,000 2013 car". It could have been the 2005 concept. The new Impala, Azera, ES, Altima all seem far better in design.
Why they can't just use the 3rd gen Tl and Accord coupe designers for everything is beyond most people.
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rev2damoon
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^The Impala? Really? LOL.
Ahh, the subjectivity of beauty.:-)
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DCR
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dominik331 wrote:
DCR wrote:
"Do Not Imitate" must mean something else in 2012.
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Those who might not know better would read your comments and not think you own a Civic Hybrid and a CR-V (or so you say). Are you really that pissed that Honda doesn't make a K20 any more? By the way why did you get rid of it knowing that there is nothing else like it in the market at that price range? Hey that BRZ from Subaru comes in blue and has a nicer interior than the PepBoyz special from Scion.
I know you don't give a rat's ass about what I think, but you are either the biggest pessimist troll or the most disgruntled Honda fan boy on this site.
Either way you still love Honda because you keep buying their products.
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Compliments will get you everywhere.
I don't "love" a corporate entity as much as some of you, apparently. It has been sad watching it spiral down so far the path of mediocrity, though.
When they get it right, I will buy. There has never been another vehicle besides a Honda in my driveway, but unless some miracle happens and they decide to produce a good car again, this hybrid will be my last Honda for awhile. I turned in my K20 for several reasons, and it doesn't mean I don't miss it every time I get in the HCH. If they don't totally fuck up the Accord coupe, they might have a contender again, but that concept doesn't provide much hope, either.
I am pretty neutral about the RLX, as it does nothing for me. I hope it is balls fast so it gets some attention when the media gets hold of it, but that exterior design is not going to do it any favors. The first time I saw it here, in beige no less, I was really shocked they went the way they did. I thought I was looking at the new Accord sedan, which this would be a good evolution of, actually. The car does not look like an Acura to me...it has so many styling cues that are so established and done over that this thing just has no identity in my eyes.
Acura can't just wave a magic wand on top of just blending in to the pack and expect sales to explode. There is more to this segment than that, much of which is intangible. Does Acura have the brand power to move this car...because it is not just about the car. Besides that they are hemming in sales right off the bat with the hybrid tech, unproven at that. The FWD version may get some retention there, but we'll see how it performs.
p.s. I can't stand the Impala either.
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lexusgs
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NSXforever wrote:
JMU R1 wrote:
dho wrote:
TIMHO, It absolutely IS more boring than any of the ones you mentioned.
for a car that was just redesigned. Those other ones are designs from a few years ago.
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Ah ha! Now you're backpedaling. Now you're saying it's boring only because the RL was redesigned this year and not because it is more boring than the other cars in its segment. But as CarPhreakD pointed out, several of the other cars were redesigned in the last year, so it's not like the RL is up against 5 year old designs.
Maybe the styling isn't to everyone's liking but it certainly isn't the most boring car in the segment (that'd be the GS IMO). And more importantly, the RLX's styling makes it look like it belongs in that segment.
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The styling has gotten beat up most everywhere for being uninspired and still Accord looking mixed with GS/ILX/etc etc cues. Let us hope in person it translates better and remember this is a concept with short bumpers. Production cars will have larger bumpers for safety reasons, it won't have those huge brakes or 20" wheels and more wheel gap.
It simply does not say "this is a brand new $50,000 2013 car". It could have been the 2005 concept. The new Impala, Azera, ES, Altima all seem far better in design.
Why they can't just use the 3rd gen Tl and Accord coupe designers for everything is beyond most people.
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What are you smoking or do you need glasses? It does not look anything like an accord, that does not mean it is a great design. It does not have the most exciting shape but it looks more like a Lexus LS, GS, 7 series, Genesis, and the current RL. It has the big chunky flagship look but it does not have the detail that separates it from its competitors or makes it stand out which it should considering all the technology going into it. Hopefully that will be addressed by the time it makes production with more detail to the front like integrating floglights, more detail to the low slab sides between the wheels, cleaning up the rear, and definitely different wheels. They need to give the interior more attention and give it a more upscale look.
They have addressed the biggest weaknesses of the current RL making it larger more stately looking with much more interior room especially in the rear, it has much more power but the styling needs to stand out more for it to gain respect.
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TurkMan71
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dominik331 wrote:
dho wrote:
I wasn't backpedaling. I was responding to the person who posted pics of a bmw, a lexus (which is a few year old design - close to 4 if not more), and an audi. That pic of the BMW is probably not the latest 5 series.
As I mentioned, I'm a big Acura/Honda fan and I love the current grill design on Acura cars. But the RLX just doesn't cut it, it is a boring design in pics and in person (IMHO). Believe me, I looked hard at it at the show in finding a standout aspect of the design. It is just very bland. Nothing stands out besides maybe the headlights (even that pales in comparison to the lights in the new Hyundai Azera no less). Even the interior (as much I could see and from the pics on the Internet) is no standout compared to what's currently available on competitors.
And why are we saying that it belongs in the segment? It should be BLOWING away the competitors. It shouldn't be good enough to just BE in the segment. And this is a brand new CONCEPT car. I'm just disappointed.
If the design was good, we wouldn't have a topic like this.
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The Lexus is the oldest. The Audi A8 came out in the Fall of 2010, the 7series (that's not a picture of the 5) the year before. It's not that long brother. Not 4 years or more. Plus based on the most recent offerings from BMW and Audi, do you really think their newest design look that much different than 4 years ago.
It's ok if you don't like but don't twist the facts. And there is always going to be a topic like this, are you kidding me. There will always be someone who doesn't like something, right DCR?
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dho makes a valid point, no matter how new or old the competition is...
Looking like it belongs (finally!) in the segment isn't enough for Acura at this point...it needs to stand out even if the segment leaders are bland, if you haven't noticed, most of the cars above have much more cache, name recognition, and a reputation for having a much larger luxury/performance envelope than Acura...
PS- please see how nasty ol Hyundai set the industry on its ear by styling the Sonata more interestingly than the excellent but bland Accord and Camry. Maybe when you have established sales you can get bland, or maybe because of established sales you need to be, but as an outsider trying to make inroads into the segment, (so sad to say this about Acura, considering it started the whole asian seperate lux brand segment) the RLX needed to be beautiful, not just good enough so it doesn't look out of place...
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NealX
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I commented in another thread that the "hybrid" badge with the blue jelly and poor letterspacing (not optically adjusted, letter to letter) looks very cheap in person under close scrutiny. OK for an ILX but not on the $$$ RLX and isolated on the front fender - interrupting the visual flow the car's most dynamic surface treatment. It's about 2 inches from the most important line. A cheap-looking horizontal badge pointing to (and detracting from) an elegant, reverse S-curve!
Another unfortunate choice.
Last edited by NealX on 04-10-2012 16:15
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rev2damoon
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^^lol. I suppose _interesting_ could be one way of describing the Sonata's styling. Not the word I would use personally.:-)
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DCR
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Neal wrote:
I commented in another thread that the "hybrid" badge with the blue jelly and poor letterspacing (not optically adjusted, letter to letter) looks very cheap in person under close scrutiny. OK for an ILX but not on the $$$ RLX and isolated on the front fender - interrupting the visual flow the car's most dynamic surface treatment. It's about 2 inches from the most important line. A cheap-looking horizontal badge pointing to (and detracting from) an elegant, reverse S-curve!
Another unfortunate choice.
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If the buyer has a couple of bucks left over, some fishing line and a hairdryer will take care of that badge rather quickly.
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dho
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I didn't twist any facts. I said the Lexus was about 4 years old. I never said the others were. I take your word that the Audi is 2 years old. And that's exactly my point. You don't come out with a NEW design to compete with cars that are 2 years old. You're supposed to beat their current design. And this RLX does not seem to be able to even beat designs that are 2-4 years old.
Please read my comments carefully before you accuse me of distorting the facts my brother.
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dho
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thanks Turkman.
Why on earth would any of us be satisfied with a bland design even if the competition is bland.
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TurkMan71
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rev2damoon wrote:
^^lol. I suppose _interesting_ could be one way of describing the Sonata's styling. Not the word I would use personally.:-)
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I used the word 'interesting' because I know some hate the Sonata's styling, but guess what? There are people who love it more than they did the last generation and that's what matters.
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rev2damoon
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TurkMan71 wrote:
rev2damoon wrote:
^^lol. I suppose _interesting_ could be one way of describing the Sonata's styling. Not the word I would use personally.:-)
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I used the word 'interesting' because I know some hate the Sonata's styling, but guess what? There are people who love it more than they did the last generation and that's what matters.
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That's true. It does matter. Increased sales is a direct indication of that. It also matters however, that the styling happens to be quite polarizing and trying to hard. Not a good thing when you're trying to shoot to the top in that particular segment. Observe how the plain vanilla Camry continues to pummel the competition, Sonata and all.:-)
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dominik331
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rev2damoon wrote:
TurkMan71 wrote:
rev2damoon wrote:
^^lol. I suppose _interesting_ could be one way of describing the Sonata's styling. Not the word I would use personally.:-)
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I used the word 'interesting' because I know some hate the Sonata's styling, but guess what? There are people who love it more than they did the last generation and that's what matters.
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That's true. It does matter. Increased sales is a direct indication of that. It also matters however, that the styling happens to be quite polarizing and trying to hard. Not a good thing when you're trying to shoot to the top in that particular segment. Observe how the plain vanilla Camry continues to pummel the competition, Sonata and all.:-)
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That alone proves that a car does not have to look like an Aston Martin or Ferrari to be successful.
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NealX
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rev2damoon wrote:
TurkMan71 wrote:
rev2damoon wrote:
^^lol. I suppose _interesting_ could be one way of describing the Sonata's styling. Not the word I would use personally.:-)
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I used the word 'interesting' because I know some hate the Sonata's styling, but guess what? There are people who love it more than they did the last generation and that's what matters.
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That's true. It does matter. Increased sales is a direct indication of that. It also matters however, that the styling happens to be quite polarizing and trying to hard. Not a good thing when you're trying to shoot to the top in that particular segment. Observe how the plain vanilla Camry continues to pummel the competition, Sonata and all.:-)
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Vanilla is the most difficult flavor to get right.
"Observe" that the more one subtracts from the whole the more important the remaining elements and their relationships to one another become. What's left deserves and demands extra scrutiny because you are clearly stating that in this specific context that "less is more."
Looking for and appreciating "the more within the less" is a sensibility that Acura design has not yet perfected. I hope they do.
(That's my profound Quote of the Month)
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CarPhreakD
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TurkMan71 wrote:
dominik331 wrote:
dho wrote:
I wasn't backpedaling. I was responding to the person who posted pics of a bmw, a lexus (which is a few year old design - close to 4 if not more), and an audi. That pic of the BMW is probably not the latest 5 series.
As I mentioned, I'm a big Acura/Honda fan and I love the current grill design on Acura cars. But the RLX just doesn't cut it, it is a boring design in pics and in person (IMHO). Believe me, I looked hard at it at the show in finding a standout aspect of the design. It is just very bland. Nothing stands out besides maybe the headlights (even that pales in comparison to the lights in the new Hyundai Azera no less). Even the interior (as much I could see and from the pics on the Internet) is no standout compared to what's currently available on competitors.
And why are we saying that it belongs in the segment? It should be BLOWING away the competitors. It shouldn't be good enough to just BE in the segment. And this is a brand new CONCEPT car. I'm just disappointed.
If the design was good, we wouldn't have a topic like this.
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The Lexus is the oldest. The Audi A8 came out in the Fall of 2010, the 7series (that's not a picture of the 5) the year before. It's not that long brother. Not 4 years or more. Plus based on the most recent offerings from BMW and Audi, do you really think their newest design look that much different than 4 years ago.
It's ok if you don't like but don't twist the facts. And there is always going to be a topic like this, are you kidding me. There will always be someone who doesn't like something, right DCR?
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dho makes a valid point, no matter how new or old the competition is...
Looking like it belongs (finally!) in the segment isn't enough for Acura at this point...it needs to stand out even if the segment leaders are bland, if you haven't noticed, most of the cars above have much more cache, name recognition, and a reputation for having a much larger luxury/performance envelope than Acura...
PS- please see how nasty ol Hyundai set the industry on its ear by styling the Sonata more interestingly than the excellent but bland Accord and Camry. Maybe when you have established sales you can get bland, or maybe because of established sales you need to be, but as an outsider trying to make inroads into the segment, (so sad to say this about Acura, considering it started the whole asian seperate lux brand segment) the RLX needed to be beautiful, not just good enough so it doesn't look out of place...
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Have you seen sales of the new Camry? They're destroying the Sonata.
Also, last month's sales:
Camry 42,567 +30.5%
Altima 41,050 +27.1%
Fusion 28,562 +3.6%
Accord 25,771 -18.1%
Malibu 23,887 +53.6%
Sonata 23,281
Optima 15,008
200 14,914 +121%
Passat 10,032 +33,340%
Avenger 9,362 +57%
Kizashi 558 -21%
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TurkMan71
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CarPhreakD wrote:
TurkMan71 wrote:
dominik331 wrote:
dho wrote:
I wasn't backpedaling. I was responding to the person who posted pics of a bmw, a lexus (which is a few year old design - close to 4 if not more), and an audi. That pic of the BMW is probably not the latest 5 series.
As I mentioned, I'm a big Acura/Honda fan and I love the current grill design on Acura cars. But the RLX just doesn't cut it, it is a boring design in pics and in person (IMHO). Believe me, I looked hard at it at the show in finding a standout aspect of the design. It is just very bland. Nothing stands out besides maybe the headlights (even that pales in comparison to the lights in the new Hyundai Azera no less). Even the interior (as much I could see and from the pics on the Internet) is no standout compared to what's currently available on competitors.
And why are we saying that it belongs in the segment? It should be BLOWING away the competitors. It shouldn't be good enough to just BE in the segment. And this is a brand new CONCEPT car. I'm just disappointed.
If the design was good, we wouldn't have a topic like this.
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The Lexus is the oldest. The Audi A8 came out in the Fall of 2010, the 7series (that's not a picture of the 5) the year before. It's not that long brother. Not 4 years or more. Plus based on the most recent offerings from BMW and Audi, do you really think their newest design look that much different than 4 years ago.
It's ok if you don't like but don't twist the facts. And there is always going to be a topic like this, are you kidding me. There will always be someone who doesn't like something, right DCR?
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dho makes a valid point, no matter how new or old the competition is...
Looking like it belongs (finally!) in the segment isn't enough for Acura at this point...it needs to stand out even if the segment leaders are bland, if you haven't noticed, most of the cars above have much more cache, name recognition, and a reputation for having a much larger luxury/performance envelope than Acura...
PS- please see how nasty ol Hyundai set the industry on its ear by styling the Sonata more interestingly than the excellent but bland Accord and Camry. Maybe when you have established sales you can get bland, or maybe because of established sales you need to be, but as an outsider trying to make inroads into the segment, (so sad to say this about Acura, considering it started the whole asian seperate lux brand segment) the RLX needed to be beautiful, not just good enough so it doesn't look out of place...
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Have you seen sales of the new Camry? They're destroying the Sonata.
Also, last month's sales:
Camry 42,567 +30.5%
Altima 41,050 +27.1%
Fusion 28,562 +3.6%
Accord 25,771 -18.1%
Malibu 23,887 +53.6%
Sonata 23,281
Optima 15,008
200 14,914 +121%
Passat 10,032 +33,340%
Avenger 9,362 +57%
Kizashi 558 -21%
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I think there is a point being missed here, just a short time ago the Sonata would not even register with Accord and Camry buyers. That has changed. There is no arguing with Camry's great numbers, and the Sonata's styling is very 'flavor of the month', but I think this was intentional...it can't grab sales from engineering or value or even fun tech features, it's not nearly as sexy of an idea as a swoopy albeit polarizing design. I have a feeling the next Sonata will be more conservative. It's gotten noticed, now it needs to settle down to get the really big sales numbers...well designed appliances like the Camry are rarely swoopy.
I'd argue Acura tried this but failed miserably with design that got attention but little admiration. I suggest Acura still needs to grab people's attention, but with beauty (or the the closest thing to it that a consensus will allow).
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rev2damoon
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Neal wrote:
rev2damoon wrote:
TurkMan71 wrote:
rev2damoon wrote:
^^lol. I suppose _interesting_ could be one way of describing the Sonata's styling. Not the word I would use personally.:-)
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I used the word 'interesting' because I know some hate the Sonata's styling, but guess what? There are people who love it more than they did the last generation and that's what matters.
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That's true. It does matter. Increased sales is a direct indication of that. It also matters however, that the styling happens to be quite polarizing and trying to hard. Not a good thing when you're trying to shoot to the top in that particular segment. Observe how the plain vanilla Camry continues to pummel the competition, Sonata and all.:-)
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Vanilla is the most difficult flavor to get right.
"Observe" that the more one subtracts from the whole the more important the remaining elements and their relationships to one another become. What's left deserves and demands extra scrutiny because you are clearly stating that in this specific context that "less is more."
Looking for and appreciating "the more within the less" is a sensibility that Acura design has not yet perfected. I hope they do.
(That's my profound Quote of the Month)
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I certainly subscribe to the "less is more" design philosophy, and I do think that the RLX is a major step in the right direction for Acura in that regard. It isn't a perfect design by any means, but it's a very well executed one IMO. Clean, cohesive, stately...
The argument that the RLX needed to _stand out_ more for Acura's sake I can understand, but the argument that it is somehow the most boring design in the segment as some assert, isn't very accurate. One need only look at the competition really. So, a very good design it is. A game-changing design it is not. Acura played it safe with design and is pushing the evelope with technology. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.
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NealX
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^I think you're right about Hyundai - that their next wave of vehicles will be more "conservative" in looks. Through this they may grab an even larger piece of the pie from those who like the warranty, features and price but considered the designs too "out there." The new Santa Fe will be offered in two sizes (2 and 3 rows) and they say they are planning on introducing more "family" vehicles.
Seems like a pretty clever tactic: going after the "family values" crowd. Check, please! ;-)
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CarPhreakD
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To be honest, the new Santa Fe has a lot of Optima designs. It did lose a lot of the swoopiness.
In all honesty I think the rear 3/4 of the Sonata looks great. But the front! Blech...
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CarPhreakD
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TurkMan71 wrote:
CarPhreakD wrote:
TurkMan71 wrote:
dominik331 wrote:
dho wrote:
I wasn't backpedaling. I was responding to the person who posted pics of a bmw, a lexus (which is a few year old design - close to 4 if not more), and an audi. That pic of the BMW is probably not the latest 5 series.
As I mentioned, I'm a big Acura/Honda fan and I love the current grill design on Acura cars. But the RLX just doesn't cut it, it is a boring design in pics and in person (IMHO). Believe me, I looked hard at it at the show in finding a standout aspect of the design. It is just very bland. Nothing stands out besides maybe the headlights (even that pales in comparison to the lights in the new Hyundai Azera no less). Even the interior (as much I could see and from the pics on the Internet) is no standout compared to what's currently available on competitors.
And why are we saying that it belongs in the segment? It should be BLOWING away the competitors. It shouldn't be good enough to just BE in the segment. And this is a brand new CONCEPT car. I'm just disappointed.
If the design was good, we wouldn't have a topic like this.
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The Lexus is the oldest. The Audi A8 came out in the Fall of 2010, the 7series (that's not a picture of the 5) the year before. It's not that long brother. Not 4 years or more. Plus based on the most recent offerings from BMW and Audi, do you really think their newest design look that much different than 4 years ago.
It's ok if you don't like but don't twist the facts. And there is always going to be a topic like this, are you kidding me. There will always be someone who doesn't like something, right DCR?
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dho makes a valid point, no matter how new or old the competition is...
Looking like it belongs (finally!) in the segment isn't enough for Acura at this point...it needs to stand out even if the segment leaders are bland, if you haven't noticed, most of the cars above have much more cache, name recognition, and a reputation for having a much larger luxury/performance envelope than Acura...
PS- please see how nasty ol Hyundai set the industry on its ear by styling the Sonata more interestingly than the excellent but bland Accord and Camry. Maybe when you have established sales you can get bland, or maybe because of established sales you need to be, but as an outsider trying to make inroads into the segment, (so sad to say this about Acura, considering it started the whole asian seperate lux brand segment) the RLX needed to be beautiful, not just good enough so it doesn't look out of place...
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Have you seen sales of the new Camry? They're destroying the Sonata.
Also, last month's sales:
Camry 42,567 +30.5%
Altima 41,050 +27.1%
Fusion 28,562 +3.6%
Accord 25,771 -18.1%
Malibu 23,887 +53.6%
Sonata 23,281
Optima 15,008
200 14,914 +121%
Passat 10,032 +33,340%
Avenger 9,362 +57%
Kizashi 558 -21%
|
I think there is a point being missed here, just a short time ago the Sonata would not even register with Accord and Camry buyers. That has changed. There is no arguing with Camry's great numbers, and the Sonata's styling is very 'flavor of the month', but I think this was intentional...it can't grab sales from engineering or value or even fun tech features, it's not nearly as sexy of an idea as a swoopy albeit polarizing design. I have a feeling the next Sonata will be more conservative. It's gotten noticed, now it needs to settle down to get the really big sales numbers...well designed appliances like the Camry are rarely swoopy.
I'd argue Acura tried this but failed miserably with design that got attention but little admiration. I suggest Acura still needs to grab people's attention, but with beauty (or the the closest thing to it that a consensus will allow).
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I think the last generation Sonata was selling... at this particular position. It might have actually ticked up as the new generation Sonata came in and the old ones had huge discounts on the hood.
But yeah, you can see how it only took 2 years or so for the car to lose momentum. The Sonata had the benefit of being introduced after other automakers already had MMCs or were in the process of replacing their cars, but Toyota had a pretty masterful strike back with the new Camry.
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TurkMan71
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CarPhreakD wrote:
TurkMan71 wrote:
CarPhreakD wrote:
TurkMan71 wrote:
dominik331 wrote:
dho wrote:
I wasn't backpedaling. I was responding to the person who posted pics of a bmw, a lexus (which is a few year old design - close to 4 if not more), and an audi. That pic of the BMW is probably not the latest 5 series.
As I mentioned, I'm a big Acura/Honda fan and I love the current grill design on Acura cars. But the RLX just doesn't cut it, it is a boring design in pics and in person (IMHO). Believe me, I looked hard at it at the show in finding a standout aspect of the design. It is just very bland. Nothing stands out besides maybe the headlights (even that pales in comparison to the lights in the new Hyundai Azera no less). Even the interior (as much I could see and from the pics on the Internet) is no standout compared to what's currently available on competitors.
And why are we saying that it belongs in the segment? It should be BLOWING away the competitors. It shouldn't be good enough to just BE in the segment. And this is a brand new CONCEPT car. I'm just disappointed.
If the design was good, we wouldn't have a topic like this.
|
The Lexus is the oldest. The Audi A8 came out in the Fall of 2010, the 7series (that's not a picture of the 5) the year before. It's not that long brother. Not 4 years or more. Plus based on the most recent offerings from BMW and Audi, do you really think their newest design look that much different than 4 years ago.
It's ok if you don't like but don't twist the facts. And there is always going to be a topic like this, are you kidding me. There will always be someone who doesn't like something, right DCR?
|
dho makes a valid point, no matter how new or old the competition is...
Looking like it belongs (finally!) in the segment isn't enough for Acura at this point...it needs to stand out even if the segment leaders are bland, if you haven't noticed, most of the cars above have much more cache, name recognition, and a reputation for having a much larger luxury/performance envelope than Acura...
PS- please see how nasty ol Hyundai set the industry on its ear by styling the Sonata more interestingly than the excellent but bland Accord and Camry. Maybe when you have established sales you can get bland, or maybe because of established sales you need to be, but as an outsider trying to make inroads into the segment, (so sad to say this about Acura, considering it started the whole asian seperate lux brand segment) the RLX needed to be beautiful, not just good enough so it doesn't look out of place...
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Have you seen sales of the new Camry? They're destroying the Sonata.
Also, last month's sales:
Camry 42,567 +30.5%
Altima 41,050 +27.1%
Fusion 28,562 +3.6%
Accord 25,771 -18.1%
Malibu 23,887 +53.6%
Sonata 23,281
Optima 15,008
200 14,914 +121%
Passat 10,032 +33,340%
Avenger 9,362 +57%
Kizashi 558 -21%
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I think there is a point being missed here, just a short time ago the Sonata would not even register with Accord and Camry buyers. That has changed. There is no arguing with Camry's great numbers, and the Sonata's styling is very 'flavor of the month', but I think this was intentional...it can't grab sales from engineering or value or even fun tech features, it's not nearly as sexy of an idea as a swoopy albeit polarizing design. I have a feeling the next Sonata will be more conservative. It's gotten noticed, now it needs to settle down to get the really big sales numbers...well designed appliances like the Camry are rarely swoopy.
I'd argue Acura tried this but failed miserably with design that got attention but little admiration. I suggest Acura still needs to grab people's attention, but with beauty (or the the closest thing to it that a consensus will allow).
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I think the last generation Sonata was selling... at this particular position. It might have actually ticked up as the new generation Sonata came in and the old ones had huge discounts on the hood.
But yeah, you can see how it only took 2 years or so for the car to lose momentum. The Sonata had the benefit of being introduced after other automakers already had MMCs or were in the process of replacing their cars, but Toyota had a pretty masterful strike back with the new Camry.
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Not sure you are giving Hyundai its due credit...it's never good to underestimate the competition - I rather have a Honda, but I respect Hyundai's achievements in the past few years - and I'm not the only one:
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/10/04/honda-chief-hyundai-is-awesome/
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Powered by Honda
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off topic. Go back to RLX. No more Camry speak.
So I think the RLX design is exciting and has presence and the soul of the Legend.
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NealX
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I think we'll see a lot of "influence" from the Sonata in the next Accord.
Would it not be something if Hyundai "convinced" Honda into thinking their designs need to be more "out there" at the same time they themselves are significantly dialing it back?
That's what can happen when your guard is down.
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nightflow
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There was talk about the design being a 4-door coupe. I was hoping the RLX would have a sleeker design much like a Mercedes CLS, Audi A7 or Jaguar XJ. Those designs are beautifully striking for a large sedan yet maintains a road presence. The RLX exterior design could have debuted in 2005 and would have looked equally bland. It has presence much like an executive car service limo but does not come off as striking or desirable. Just my thoughts on the design.
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NealX
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nightflow wrote:
There was talk about the design being a 4-door coupe. I was hoping the RLX would have a sleeker design much like a Mercedes CLS, Audi A7 or Jaguar XJ. Those designs are beautifully striking for a large sedan yet maintains a road presence. The RLX exterior design could have debuted in 2005 and would have looked equally bland. It has presence much like an executive car service limo but does not come off as striking or desirable. Just my thoughts on the design.
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We'll be showing an RLX (GT) with some general influences from the CLS and A7 sometime this week. I think it looks darn nice.
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lexusgs
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nightflow wrote:
There was talk about the design being a 4-door coupe. I was hoping the RLX would have a sleeker design much like a Mercedes CLS, Audi A7 or Jaguar XJ. Those designs are beautifully striking for a large sedan yet maintains a road presence. The RLX exterior design could have debuted in 2005 and would have looked equally bland. It has presence much like an executive car service limo but does not come off as striking or desirable. Just my thoughts on the design.
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That is what I was hoping for too, something like a CLS, XJ, A7, but knew we would not end up getting that when Jeff and others said the design is pretty bland and similar to the current one. The rumors were the RLX was going to be more of a CLS type sleek design, I don't know what happened to that.
I was hoping the interior was going to be a resemble or be a mix of the current RL, ZDX, Panamera, A8. After hearing the exterior was not going to be that exiting I was hoping to be blown away be the interior and it ended up being very disappointing, plain, and bare. It does not look like a flagship interior and is a step down from the current RL and ZDX. More room in the rear but there is nothing special in the rear of the RL, all you get is 2 plain vents that you get in family sedans. There is little attention to detail or much to show this is a top luxury sedan in the RLX interior. Having 2 touch screens or some extra stitched leather does not make it luxurious or a very good design.
I hope they are working on giving the RL a more unique look on the outside and they do more with the interior and give it a more upscale look and feel.
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according2kev
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To each his own. I’ll take the RLX design over any of those three cars any day but I prefer conservative designs. It’s not that all three are completely bad, but I find the rear ends to be unattractive. The CLS and A7 especially with their sagging butts.
Lexusgs, I disagree on the interior. I think it’s styled nicely and looks worthy of its estimated price tag. If I could change something, I would make the upper portion of the dash and doors black instead of taupe. Also, and I’m not being facetious, but were you expecting some type of RES for the rear passengers? I notice you said “there is nothing special in the rear of the RL, all you get is 2 plain vents that you get in family sedans.”
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lexusgs
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according2kev wrote:
To each his own. I’ll take the RLX design over any of those three cars any day but I prefer conservative designs. It’s not that all three are completely bad, but I find the rear ends to be unattractive. The CLS and A7 especially with their sagging butts.
Lexusgs, I disagree on the interior. I think it’s styled nicely and looks worthy of its estimated price tag. If I could change something, I would make the upper portion of the dash and doors black instead of taupe. Also, and I’m not being facetious, but were you expecting some type of RES for the rear passengers? I notice you said “there is nothing special in the rear of the RL, all you get is 2 plain vents that you get in family sedans.”
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I am not talking about copying those designs but have a nice sleek flowing sleek shape like the original CLS and Jaq XJ with some Acura signatures and details thrown in, give it a similar rear tail light treatment of the 2nd Gen Legend. The A7 looks very good until you get to the rear, I don't like the very back of it either but the rest looks good. I like some conservative designs too, the previous Audi A8 was conservative yet looked great, the current one is a disaster with the exterior design, but the Acura just does not stand out and needs more detail. It is reminding me of a Hyundai Genesis or Equus that just use some styling ques from different cars for a decent but bland shape that does nothing for the brand or draw in interest.
As far as interior goes, look at closeups and you can see how there is very little attention to detail unlike the current RL or ZDX. It looks more like a big ILX interior with two screens and hardly any buttons with some wood(please Acura make it real wood) trim thrown in. Look at the big cheap looking plastic seat heater buttons that look like something off of a Hyundai Genesis, the big cheap looking plastic buttons for the nav controls in the center. The RLX lost that nice flowing center wood piece for what is two big leather or plastic slabs. The vents look incredibly cheap, econo car like, and right off of the ILX. This stuff is a huge step down from the current RL or ZDX. I want to see more attention to detail, more luxury features, and real metal trim/touches and beautiful wood instead of hunks of plastic or just some more leather.
For a flagship the rear seat passengers should have their own seat heaters/cooling, recline, radio, etc that the other competitors offer in their flagships or executive cars. Rear seat entertainment should be available if not standard too. All I see is 2 vents like what are standard on family sedans. Acura increased the rear seat room for people to be driven and is bragging about it yet there needs to be more for rear passengers then just basic vents. They really need to separate the RLX from lesser Acura's more then what they have in the interior.
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nightflow
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http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1075225_interview-with-mazda-designer-director-derek-jenkins-2012-new-york-auto-show
I'm a fan of the Mazda Design Director Derek Jenkins' Takeri Concept. Perhaps have him design all future Acura vehicles. The Takeri Concept at the NY Auto show looked really nice, sleek, proportional and sporty yet solid. They already have a pentagram grill similar to the Acura grill. Thoughts?
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NealX
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It's fantastic! This is said to be a "global" car as well. I hope the Accord Sedan "concept" is this dynamic. Honestly don't expect them to look all that different in presentation if the Accord Coupe concept is any indication. We'll see who gets there first...
Just please don't reveal the car in silver or beige.
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