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TOV Forums > CR-Z > > Re: Hotter Hondas

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WongKN
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Re: CR-Z Wins Wheel's Car of the Year! Australia    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-12-2012 07:47
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The big problem with that 'promise' of a higher performance CR-Z from the LPL was that I simply never had a chance to talk to him again. If I had, I think I might have been able to squeeze a bit more info out of him. But there was no media drive event for the CR-Z locally. Usually the LPL will also be here for these events and I would have more chances of talking to him. The reason given for this is that Honda did not have enough spare units for the media drive, though I suspect it's to do with cost cutting measures due to the double whammy (earthquake and flood). Again I regret being unsuccessful in getting into the Honda list for the bi-annual Tokyo Motor Show (apologies for bringing this up often). The people who went were given a advance opportunity to test drive the CR-Z and I suspect to meet up with the LPL (Tomobe-san) but as usual, they were never interested to dig up the more important details. So I guess we have to wait. Maybe when the MMC comes out. The 1G 1.5l Fit/Jazz VTEC came out during its first major MMC from what I recall. If nothing shows up during the CRZ MMC, then I am not sure if we might even have been taken for a 'ride' by Honda. Again... (sorry, not meaning to be so negative).
Nick GravesX
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Re: CR-Z Wins Wheel's Car of the Year! Australia    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-12-2012 10:16
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Hi Wong,

It's difficult not to sound negative about it, given the dearth of any real information. Uncertainty is often worse than bad news. Maybe it's just the marketing dept. that's gone off half-cocked. Again.

It is entirely possible that due to a development backlog in Tochigi (after the disasters) that Honda has handed the development of the hot CR-Z over to Mugen, to see if it works out. I had understood that it was Honda's intention to do so anyway, since the fuel economy requirements meant that FI was the only way forward and they wanted Mugen eventually to become their AMG- or M-department.

I feel though, that Honda appears to be moving far too slowly far too late on this; a hotter version ought to have been in the planning from the start, not for the MMC.



WongKN
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Re: CR-Z Wins Wheel's Car of the Year! Australia    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-12-2012 11:35
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Hi Nick,

This was Tomobe-san who confirmed the higher spec CR-Z, not marketing people. Tomobe-san is the LPL, or the chief engineer in charge of the CR-Z. I.e. he is the one who designed the car. From what little I know, LPLs are still constrained by what their managers decides. I.e. Tomobe-san's management can still veto his intention. But I was told Tomobe-san is very senior in Honda R&D and he pretty much decides what he wants to do and management will let him do it. He is the same person whom those original articles from Europe/UK were quoting, about Honda planning a higher spec version of the CRZ. I just asked him point-blank about those articles and he confirms they are correct.

However, you have a very good point when you raised the possible impact the Tohoku earthquake might have on the development plans for this higher spec CR-Z. Could the damage done to the Tochigi R&D center have affected this new variant ?

Like I said, I would have asked all these questions but I wasn't there and sadly, no-one else was interested to ask.
Fan Koni
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Re: CR-Z Wins Wheel's Car of the Year! Australia    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-12-2012 11:44
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Today, I don't think Honda ever planed much success with the CR-Z, so no hot version was put on a plan. I mean e.g. with the mini BMW communicated early that more versions would follow.

For me the ICF has a few rights to exist - 1. some regulations for some racing group require it, 2. it is the prototype for a more powerful CR-Z e.g. breaks.
3 - this is an almost awful reason - it is the top version above the new mainstream diesel hybrid CR-Z.

With the MMC I expect Honda UK to introduce it, with the new light and powerful 1.6 diesel. Just like the enhanced version of the 2.2 diesel was introduced in UK first.
From there the power CR-Z pair will go EU.
The ICF has to be above the diesel to prevent an image scandal, about Honda gone so wrong with a diesel as the most powerful version of its most sporty product in EU.

I actually think it could work really well - efficient on long distance and lowest CO2 in cities - plus great power.
Most EU companies are working on diesel hybrids.
Nick GravesX
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Re: CR-Z Wins Wheel's Car of the Year! Australia    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-12-2012 12:52
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What I really meant was the non-marketing of the iCF; if you follow the link on Honda UK's CR-Z Mugen page, it likes to a press release from Mugen Europe, whose (few) appointed Honda dealers will sell the iCF as a package.

It's all a bit vague at the moment - maybe when the production version IS ready, they'll push it a bit harder. It's just a bit of a half-hearted contrast to the MINI or indeed the GT 8 6, where expectations have been carefully built.

Interesting idea about the 1.6 Diesel CR-Z. Sounds like a great idea in principle, but so not what Honda needs to boost its credibility right now.

bigblue
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Re: CR-Z Wins Wheel's Car of the Year! Australia    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-12-2012 17:41
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I thought the Mugen made a bit of a splash when it was announced, it was reported on all kinds of web-sites, but the date for demo cars to be at dealers is around now and I haven't heard anything else. My local Honda dealer has just turned into a Ford dealer :-( There's another one half an hour's drive away, I might go have a look.

I'm not at all sure whether the iCF is a great idea, or not. Petrol + electric + supercharger is unusual, could give the best of all worlds or be a complicated mish-mash ... I think the Mugen guys are pushing the three distinct modes angle on this - mild mannered eco but fun car, and at a flick of a switch, proper hot hatch / sports car performance. Interesting.

Here's a link to keep you amused whilst we wait it's appearance.

Now, when's that new 1.8 going to find it's way under the bonnet ...
Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: CR-Z Wins Wheel's Car of the Year! Australia    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-13-2012 05:15
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Nice find - thanks!

That's more like it; albeit expensive, the kit does seem to provide the driveability without destroying the car's economy or useability. Just what Honda would have ordered!

It ought to make a pretty decent car out of it.
Varmint
Profile for Varmint
Re: CR-Z Wins Wheel's Car of the Year!    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-13-2012 12:43
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sadlerau wrote:
Must say I didn't see this one coming...........

http://motoring.ninemsn.com.au/cars/features/8403809/wheels-coty-2011-honda-cr-z

"Expertly engineered, impressively efficient, and with strong safety credentials, the Honda CR-Z is also a genuine joy to drive. The little petrol-electric coupe may not be blindingly quick, but it is eye-openingly agile. Endowed with the kind of handling and steering that invites involvement, the Honda puts a smile on the face of any driver who accepts the invitation. And this, it hardly need be said, is a first for a hybrid… "



The Kiwis seems to share this opinion. More than anything else, though, I keep seeing a trend. In markets where the first reviews are positive and the expectations are modest, the CR-Z continues to earn praise. In markets that have been starved of a real sports car (or expectations were wacky), the CR-Z becomes the scapegoat.

CR-Z Brings Back the Fun

"So the good news is that, despite its diminutive size, this CR-Z can be used as a normal car, albeit in essence a two-seater one.

But this Honda is actually a lot more than that. I loved it, and it immediately takes its place high up in my list of lovely little sporty cars that I've driven – alongside cars such as Mitsubishi Mirage Turbo, Mazda MX-5 and Toyota MR2.

And that's high praise indeed."

Fan Koni
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Re: CR-Z Wins Wheel's Car of the Year! Australia    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-13-2012 13:40
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Nick Graves wrote:
What I really meant was the non-marketing of the iCF; if you follow the link on Honda UK's CR-Z Mugen page, it likes to a press release from Mugen Europe, whose (few) appointed Honda dealers will sell the iCF as a package.

It's all a bit vague at the moment - maybe when the production version IS ready, they'll push it a bit harder. It's just a bit of a half-hearted contrast to the MINI or indeed the GT 8 6, where expectations have been carefully built.

Interesting idea about the 1.6 Diesel CR-Z. Sounds like a great idea in principle, but so not what Honda needs to boost its credibility right now.



This half-hearted / half-a... approach on the performance CR-Z is why I believe they are waiting on something. The 1.6 diesel is my bet.

The only thing Honda is really building expectations is on the NSX - and not really carefully. But that said, in general building expectations is not a strength of Honda.
sadlerau
Profile for sadlerau
Re: CR-Z Wins Wheel's Car of the Year!    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-14-2012 01:10
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Varmint wrote:
sadlerau wrote:
Must say I didn't see this one coming...........

http://motoring.ninemsn.com.au/cars/features/8403809/wheels-coty-2011-honda-cr-z

"Expertly engineered, impressively efficient, and with strong safety credentials, the Honda CR-Z is also a genuine joy to drive. The little petrol-electric coupe may not be blindingly quick, but it is eye-openingly agile. Endowed with the kind of handling and steering that invites involvement, the Honda puts a smile on the face of any driver who accepts the invitation. And this, it hardly need be said, is a first for a hybrid… "



The Kiwis seems to share this opinion. More than anything else, though, I keep seeing a trend. In markets where the first reviews are positive and the expectations are modest, the CR-Z continues to earn praise. In markets that have been starved of a real sports car (or expectations were wacky), the CR-Z becomes the scapegoat.

CR-Z Brings Back the Fun

"So the good news is that, despite its diminutive size, this CR-Z can be used as a normal car, albeit in essence a two-seater one.

But this Honda is actually a lot more than that. I loved it, and it immediately takes its place high up in my list of lovely little sporty cars that I've driven – alongside cars such as Mitsubishi Mirage Turbo, Mazda MX-5 and Toyota MR2.

And that's high praise indeed."




Mitsu. Mirage Turbo??? Wouldn't be on my list :)
bigblue
Profile for bigblue
Hotter Hondas    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-15-2012 18:43
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Oh, one other thing springs to mind, maybe this thread isn't the best one to use, but it's sort of related so what the heck ... evo February 2012 magazine says :
Some good news for UK enthusiasts: Honda has revealed to evo that it is working on at least two new Type-R variants based on models in its current range, one of them - despite earlier reports to the contrary - being the new European Civic. Expect more news by the end of 2012.
Now, given the current range is Jazz/Civic/Accord and CR-Z/CR-V/Insight, what is the second Type-R ? Assuming this information is accurate (yeah, a fairly big assumption !), it's got to be between the Jazz and CR-Z doesn't it ?
FiSH-Chan
Profile for FiSH-Chan
Re: Hotter Hondas    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-15-2012 21:40
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bigblue wrote:
Assuming this information is accurate (yeah, a fairly big assumption !), it's got to be between the Jazz and CR-Z doesn't it ?


I would bet on the CR-Z. Being the Jazz just got Si already, and the global platform can be fitted with independant rear suspension, so -- CR-Z R (crazier?).
WongKN
Profile for WongKN
Re: Hotter Hondas    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-15-2012 22:35
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Now, let us then hope that Honda's new standards for 'Type-R' is not going to be similar to the standard they just adopted for the 'Si' badge. Like Daniel says, for Honda in Europe, the badge means nothing. He is correct of course but does that mean Honda in Europe can abuse and insult badges and legendary names held sacred to Honda enthusiasts and to the rest of the world ?

It is starting to get real ridiculous and insane. When I proudly tell detractors that Honda 'does things their own way', I mean it to be Honda often follows their own path in technology and it is different but it can often be ground breaking and more importantly, it is what the special breed of car enthusiasts known as 'Honda fans and fanatics' wants and approves. But now it seems that 'does things their own way' means other things totally !

I would -like- to think the 'Type-R' badge still means -something- to Honda Europe. So, let's hope it won't be a 1.6l Diesel Civic Type-R with 'Type-R bodykits and rims' and it won't be a CR-Z Type-R with a new bodykit and a 'Type-R' badge inside the cabin.
TonyEX
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Re: Hotter Hondas    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-16-2012 00:24
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Now, I know that this likely won't apply to the UK with its dreary weather...

Speaking of HOTTER HONDAS...

The 'hottest" Honda I've ever owned was the 05 Accord V6 MT6 coupe.. black outside, black leather inside, metal shifter... the day I left it closed up, facing south, at 5:00AM, in Edwards AFB, in August...

And came back to the car at 11:50 having to rush to the _other_ office for a very important meeting.

As you can imagine.. that was literally the HOTTEST HONDA I've ever had... it was like 100 degrees outside... How hot do you think it was inside? You could fry an egg outside.. inside it felt like being at the receiving end of Capt'n Kirk's phaser when set to KILL, KILL and FRY! Do not collect residuals...

I burnt my ass and shifting.. well. I took my shirt off so I could handle the shifter... which mean.. yep, I was also burning my back.

AWWWW that was ONE HOT HONDA.... ;-D




FiSH-Chan
Profile for FiSH-Chan
Re: Hotter Hondas    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-16-2012 00:46
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TonyE wrote:
AWWWW that was ONE HOT HONDA.... ;-D


I've had probably a 'hotter' Accord one than yours. Ineffective A/C, I live at the equator, on a cloudless day picking the car up at noon is like going around in a mobile sauna. Usually the car starts to cool down as I arrive at my destination (and can't find a space in the shade).
bigblue
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Re: Hotter Hondas    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-16-2012 04:29
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Type-R's in the UK have been pretty serious cars up to now, and I don't think that's going to change to a "rims and stickers" philosophy, it would destroy a very strong brand that Honda needs.

It may evolve though, turbocharging/supercharging has been mentioned for the Civic, and funnily enough has then been suggested as rejected ... I think the magazines don't know anything concrete at all ! A hot hybrid (no supercharger/turbo) could be good (a VTEC screamer with flexibility ?). An outside chance is sticking with a pure normally aspirated engine (do they have a suitable engine ? the new 1.8 maybe ?).

Independent rear suspension isn't a given, I think whatever the platform has is adapted, after all the last Civic Type-R didn't have a full independent rear suspension.

Maybe we'll all be proved totally wrong and a Insight Type-R will turn up, that would be amusing ! (OK, _if_ this report is true, my money's on the CR-Z, eventually ... the Jazz is next most likely, though quite some way less probable).

That's my speculation :-)
Nick GravesX
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Re: Hotter Hondas    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-16-2012 15:20
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The latest I've heard is the Civic Type-R will be based upon the standard 5-door bodyshell & will be announced at the end of the calendar year. No indication as to which engine it will use as yet. Personally, I anticipate something a bit more 'grown-up' in the mould of the much-admired Accord Type-R.

Apparently, dealers have been informed that there will be a couple of 'surprises' too. A CR-Z Type-R might be logical (despite those within & without Honda who believe that only grey porridge models are logical!) but let's not get too ahead of ourselves. If it were (it would be a less unremarkable name than iCF!) the Mugen and not the 1.6 Diesel variant, there would be many who would applaud it.

FiSH-Chan
Profile for FiSH-Chan
Re: Hotter Hondas    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-16-2012 22:09
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bigblue wrote:
Independent rear suspension isn't a given, I think whatever the platform has is adapted, after all the last Civic Type-R didn't have a full independent rear suspension.


The biggest complaint of the last *euro* Type R is the rear suspension, and we know that the independent suspension exist on the Fit / Jazz EV platform, so a slight tweak there would not be a problem since if it's a euro Type R anyway it will cost much more, like the Fit EV does, so probably justify that suspension to be put in. Probably at expense of the folding seats and some rear space.

If Honda wants to continue on the hybrid path (and who can stop them if they want to - i'm not complaining), they probably would come out with a hybrid Type R, and the only car this would fit this image is the CRZ.
 
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