This better not be the future of what "Si" means. They've already screwed it up enough, but this is taking it too far.
My Si experience started in 1999, so were there version prior that were basically cosmetic and suspension based tweaked Si's without a stronger powertrain?
Keep in mind that "Si" is different for different countries. In Canada their Civic "Si" was basically the U.S. EX model for quite awhile.
Basically this Jazz Si sounds like the Element's limited "SC" designation - suspension and wheel upgrades with unique styling and trim.
I think the Fit is ripe for an SC model, since it doesn't look likely to get any engine upgrades. Or basically, just give us an HFP suspension already, dammit!
Potenza wrote: I think the Fit is ripe for an SC model [...]
If SC meant "supercharged", I'd agree. For Jazz Si I was expecting they would at least give it the L15 engine, possibly tuned for more power. But no, instead they went with a thicker front sway bar. Bold move, Honda!
"Si" has different meaning/marketing value in different regions.
In UK, the last gen Civic had a Si trim. It had some suspension tweaks to make it a sportier ride. Same engine as other normal Civic.
On top of that Si badge, there's the "Type-R", the Civic Type-R.
Seeing that this is an Si for EU does that mean it is competition for the Fiesta ST? I'm curious because Ford could use RS for an even more hardcore version I would assume.
Even at this point in the model cycle, the Fit is very relevant. So I think they should continue the current platform and basic design but upgrade to the EarthDreams 1.5 or 1.8L DI DOHC engine, rear disc brakes, the EV's rear multi link suspension, and better front seats with higher quality cloth. It would be a better success than throwing red-glow lighting, read stitching over everything and calling it an Si (I know this isnt a US product. Just saying...).
The Fit's problem here is that its margins are small, so its largely ignored by AHMC (Maybe the Mexican production will help, but it didn't help VW or Nissan - actually the opposite because of quality issues). This is exactly why a higher trim level makes sense, and I dont mean Honda's tacky leather seating (in fact, not use leather at all). AHMC's higher trim was the $2600 premium for the Navi/Bluetooth/Steering wheel controls. Not smart. Imagine how many other great features that they could to a car that has a real austerity issue for the price of $19,540 MSRP. Input Minami and Asahi.
They said the Si improves upon the current model's steering response and feel, geared towards the younger enthusiast...geez, the current steering response is lightning quick as it is, with great feel, esp for an electric system.
Dig the silver colored seat panels. Very Audi-like.
CrystalFiveMT wrote: They said the Si improves upon the current model's steering response and feel, geared towards the younger enthusiast...geez, the current steering response is lightning quick as it is, with great feel, esp for an electric system.
Dig the silver colored seat panels. Very Audi-like.
If you've only ever driven on a Playwithyourselfstation, maybe. Dead & detached from the tyres would be a better description.
I always felt that it had a good basis to be a fun drive, so I presume they've stuffed it up with CR-Z bits & settings to make it appeal to the under-60s.
CrystalFiveMT wrote: They said the Si improves upon the current model's steering response and feel, geared towards the younger enthusiast...geez, the current steering response is lightning quick as it is, with great feel, esp for an electric system.
Dig the silver colored seat panels. Very Audi-like.
If you've only ever driven on a Playwithyourselfstation, maybe. Dead & detached from the tyres would be a better description.
I always felt that it had a good basis to be a fun drive, so I presume they've stuffed it up with CR-Z bits & settings to make it appeal to the under-60s.
Are you kidding? Let's see, I've had my Fit Sport for 3 1/2 years. Dead and detached? Really? Try driving another Fit. Car mags apparently report the same excellent steering feel and response, lending towards its high fun-to-drive quotient. 12.7 steering ratio, 2.48 turns lock-to-lock.
And CR-Z bits and setting? Again...really? Don't you know that the Fit has a firmer suspension and handles noticeably more better than the CR-Z? Are you sure you don't have a Playwithyourselfstation?
Nick Graves wrote: If you've only ever driven on a Playwithyourselfstation, maybe. Dead & detached from the tyres would be a better description.
I always felt that it had a good basis to be a fun drive, so I presume they've stuffed it up with CR-Z bits & settings to make it appeal to the under-60s.
Are you kidding? Let's see, I've had my Fit Sport for 3 1/2 years. Dead and detached? Really? Try driving another Fit. Car mags apparently report the same excellent steering feel and response, lending towards its high fun-to-drive quotient. 12.7 steering ratio, 2.48 turns lock-to-lock.
And CR-Z bits and setting? Again...really? Don't you know that the Fit has a firmer suspension and handles noticeably more better than the CR-Z? Are you sure you don't have a Playwithyourselfstation?
Yes, the Fit steering ratio is nice and quick, which I love. The car's response to steering is very good. Overall it's effective and precise. But at least on my 2007 Fit, it's very light, way overly-assisted steering with very little feedback. I guess it's a matter of taste, I can imagine some people preferring that. IMO it could be improved for sure, like they supposedly did on the CR-Z. My Playstation steering wheel actually has better feedback, they're pretty good these days.
The suspension can also obviously be improved greatly, but personally I suspect I'm always going to want something different than whatever they come up with and don't mind doing that myself. So hypothetically, whatever they did to the steering would be the only thing that might interest me in this version of an Si model. Which isn't much because as you say, it wasn't that bad to begin with.
GoFaster wrote: Attach plastic bits and call it sport. How very Pontiac of Honda. Why "infamous" magic seats?
While nobody should model themselves after Fiat, they did make a sporty version of their car by adding something called a 'turbo'.
The description did say improved steering and suspension parts. I dunno you, but when people say 'sport' the last think I think is 'turbo' in my mind..... (I think of Mitsubishi EVo for the word 'turbo')
DCR wrote: This better not be the future of what "Si" means. They've already screwed it up enough, but this is taking it too far.
My Si experience started in 1999, so were there version prior that were basically cosmetic and suspension based tweaked Si's without a stronger powertrain?
Well... in NA -at least- the Civic Si didn't really ever have the top dog engine since the Integra was released.
The Si's did get FI-PGM before the EX/LX/DX ( 86 model year ) and they had a slightly more powerful SOHC motor with a sportier VTEC state of tune, bigger tires, better brakes, exterior cosmetic changes, deeper seats and overall a firmer suspension and better interior stuff (like a tach).
Before 99, in NA, the only "Civic" that ever got the B16 engine was the delSol SiR... but that was too late to save kermit ( many were green )...
The 99->11 were sort of aberrations as the Integra/RSX really upped the ante allowing the Si to move up (99) or no competition (06).
So, in all senses this Fit makes sense as EU had only the small 1.2 so now they're getting the larger motor for their Fit Si.
Well, it looks to me like the EU Fit Si is pretty much a NA Fit Sport...
EXCEPT HOE is allowing them to get the Si/Sport with NAVI AND MT5... something we used to get.
Damn... for all their yapping about turning Honda around they still are not doing the obvious: BRINGING BACK THE MT to the Civic EX and Fit Sport NAVI.
Nick Graves wrote: If you've only ever driven on a Playwithyourselfstation, maybe. Dead & detached from the tyres would be a better description.
I always felt that it had a good basis to be a fun drive, so I presume they've stuffed it up with CR-Z bits & settings to make it appeal to the under-60s.
Are you kidding? Let's see, I've had my Fit Sport for 3 1/2 years. Dead and detached? Really? Try driving another Fit. Car mags apparently report the same excellent steering feel and response, lending towards its high fun-to-drive quotient. 12.7 steering ratio, 2.48 turns lock-to-lock.
And CR-Z bits and setting? Again...really? Don't you know that the Fit has a firmer suspension and handles noticeably more better than the CR-Z? Are you sure you don't have a Playwithyourselfstation?
Yes, the Fit steering ratio is nice and quick, which I love. The car's response to steering is very good. Overall it's effective and precise. But at least on my 2007 Fit, it's very light, way overly-assisted steering with very little feedback. I guess it's a matter of taste, I can imagine some people preferring that. IMO it could be improved for sure, like they supposedly did on the CR-Z. My Playstation steering wheel actually has better feedback, they're pretty good these days.
The suspension can also obviously be improved greatly, but personally I suspect I'm always going to want something different than whatever they come up with and don't mind doing that myself. So hypothetically, whatever they did to the steering would be the only thing that might interest me in this version of an Si model. Which isn't much because as you say, it wasn't that bad to begin with.
Indeed.
Journos are pretty mealy-mouthed (they know who's paying for their next meal- the advertisers!) and the steering in most moderns seems to be pretty awful. Plus we have a big choice of B-segments over here, some of which are slightly less detached than the Jazz.
i've owned both, and the steering on the GE is MUCH improved, better than the GTI (09) that i owned at one point.
granted, the 07 when it was in the states, was STILL lauded for its steering...sure the competition has caught up,but the 09 is an improvement and holds its own. some publications (and myself on various test drives) still prefer it
now this simply isnt true. look at insideline. they are one of the biggest 'the fit has epic steering' of the journalistic bunch and all they ever do is advertise for american car makers.
again, the competition HAS caught up, but to say the steering is lifeless just because the ford fiesta or mazda2 may be a bit more driver focuses is asinine.
Fact is, most of the hacks only admit to it tacitly, when they drive something like a GT 8 6 which has a non-feedback cancelling loop. Few brave souls are prepared to admit they find the 911 current spoiled by EPS.
Not to compare it to older Hondas which did have good steering feel is asinine; just because it's newer doesn't make it better.
There was also an odd vagueness in the Bridgestones Honda used to specify on the GG Jazzes; I do not believe the problem was entirely EPS-related.
Lifeless steering devoid of all feedback can be blamed on suspension/steering geometry as much as it can be blamed on EPS.
In actuality, EPS isn't really all that different; the main thing is that it allows automakers to dial different levels of feedback out...
The Fit has great steering. But it's not even close to the Civic Si. The Civic Si, in turn, doesn't have the same steering feedback as the 5th and 6th generation Civics, but it's not bad- on the one hand you still get the most important feel through the tires (i.e. grip levels), on the other you no longer have numb hands on long drives.
The steering matches the vehicles abilities. A better use of resources would be to improve the rear suspension and cornering, then adjust the steering for its new handling limits.
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