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TOV Forums > TSX > > Re: Positive press reaction to TSX Sport Wagon

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atomiclightbulb
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Positive press reaction to TSX Sport Wagon    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-08-2010 18:00
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Common themes: the Electric Power Steering is well-tuned. Handling is much sharper than crossovers and big wagons like Outback. The engine sounds fantastic. Interior is nice. Cargo space is generous.

It appears that someone at Acura took note of the criticism that pre-MMC TSX's got for how the steering was tuned. I'm happy to see that it looks as if the complaints are resolved.

http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/driven/1012_2011_acura_tsx_sport_wagon/index.html

And now, we have redemption. The TSX Sport Wagon marks a return to the cars that Acura should have been making all along. With front-wheel drive, a four-cylinder engine, and automatic-only transmission, it's not trying to compete with the BMW 3-series Touring. Or even the Audi A4 Avant. It is, simply, a well-built compact wagon.

Sadly, it still has the Butter Face front end, but it's better looking than the sedan. Like all wagons, it's far more useful, too, with airy back seats, a big rear cargo hold and an available power liftgate. Take everything you know and love about the TSX sedan, add a backpack, and you have the Sport Wagon.

The TSX is fantastic to drive, with a quick, perfectly weighted steering rack attached to a thick, leather-covered wheel. The transmission still has only five forward gears, but it makes good use of the ratios, happily revving the snot out of the engine when needed. At 2.4 liters, this is a big four, and it does get vocal at high revs, with a hollow, purposeful note that vibrates the floorboard-but it's more "sporty" than "thrashy." Of course, it can't compete with Audi's turbocharged four-cylinders, Volkswagen and Volvo's five-cylinders, or BMW's silken in-line sixes, but Hondas are at their best when they're not trying to emulate everyone else's high-torque, low-rev powertrains.



http://www.thecarconnection.com/marty-blog/1052323_2011-acura-tsx-sport-wagon-first-drive

The TSX Sport Wagon reminds this reviewer of what the considerably taller RDX cannot be, and even what the Subaru Outback has lost by continuing to grow taller and heavier.
...

while the aforementioned Subaru boasts a larger cargo hold, itís not not nearly as sharp handling an offering. You probably donít cross-shop this Acura with that Subaru, but vs. those aforementioned bogies Acura itself is targeting óBMW, Audi, Volvoóit beats them all on total cargo, save the Volvo (also not as sporty a drive, by the way).
...

Beyond the digits, the Sport Wagon is truly sporty. Steering is light but talks to the driver and though itís an electrical system rather than a mechanical one, it resists feeling either numb or dead, or weighting up at the wrong instance.

The engine in the Acura is also a real pleasure, revíing cleanly and freely to redline, and the revised TSXís transmission will hold gears in Sport mode right up to the rev-limiter, and paddle shifters tick off shifts up or down fairly quickly, if not as smartly as you get in Audiís DSG.
Sasker
Profile for Sasker
Re: Positive press reaction to TSX Sport Wagon    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-08-2010 19:07
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Good info. Thanks.

I didn't like thecarconnection.com's constant emphasis on this wagon being for new parents. This is stigmatizing it right from the beginning.

This wagon is for anyone who has to do more than an occasional grocery shopping, and that includes a huge part of the population. Parents would definitely benefit, but people with active lifestyles with enjoy it too.

Most people would be buying wagons or hatches if this was a logical society, or if gas prices were considerably higher!
PGH
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Re: Positive press reaction to TSX Sport Wagon    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-08-2010 21:11
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A 4 cyl Outback limited curb weight is 3564 and it's height is 65.7 with roof rails. Anybody have the TSX specs?
atomiclightbulb
Profile for atomiclightbulb
Re: Positive press reaction to TSX Sport Wagon    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-08-2010 21:45
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Sasker wrote:
I didn't like thecarconnection.com's constant emphasis on this wagon being for new parents. This is stigmatizing it right from the beginning.
...

Most people would be buying wagons or hatches if this was a logical society, or if gas prices were considerably higher!


I think the family/parent thing came from Honda's presentation of the vehicle at the end of last March. I seem to remember slides and photos emphasizing that this is targeted at younger families. I'm not sure I understand though how this would discourage other non-enthusiast buyers. The lack of a 6-spd manual transmission has stigmatized the vehicle with enthusiasts from the start.

Gasoline is over $3/gallon now in some parts of the country. Analysts predicting that prices will go higher. This would definitely help sales.

PGH wrote:
A 4 cyl Outback limited curb weight is 3564 and it's height is 65.7 with roof rails. Anybody have the TSX specs?


I *think* the TSX Wagon fully equipped weighs 3618 lbs. The sedan w' 5-spd AT weighs 3486 max. The wagon adds 60kg, or 132 lbs heavier. No idea how tall the rails are.
TSX69
Profile for TSX69
Re: Positive press reaction to TSX Sport Wagon    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-08-2010 21:46
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The Car Connection Review
So, with all that spin does that mean that Acura is abandoning crossovers? Donít be silly.

Acuraís MDX and RDX crossover sales are booming, both up nearly 50 percent so far this year. And Acura itself only predicts sales of the TSX Sport Wagon to be a modest 4,000 units in 2011, and estimates that the entire entry-luxury wagon slice of Americaís auto pie is a dinky, 10,000 or so units. (For reference, baked into said slice are cars like the $29,000 Volvo V50 T5, $35,940 Audi A4 Avant and $36,200 BMW 328i Sport Wagon.)
TSX69
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Re: Positive press reaction to TSX Sport Wagon    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-08-2010 21:49
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AutoWeek Review
Still, the steering is quick and responsive, the suspension is firm without being harsh, and the cabin is quiet at highway speeds, making the time behind the wheel enjoyable. Plus, with an available 460-watt ELS surround-sound audio system with a 15-gig storage, you have a concert hall on wheels, for those who appreciate such things. There are few, if any, better manufacturer audio systems offered today.
Blue_Sky_surfer
Profile for Blue_Sky_surfer
Re: Positive press reaction to TSX Sport Wagon    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-08-2010 23:19
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A 4 cyl Outback limited curb weight is 3564 and it's height is 65.7 with roof rails.

65.7 in.? that's the same as Crosstour.
98EX4cyl
Profile for 98EX4cyl
Re: Positive press reaction to TSX Sport Wagon    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-08-2010 23:28
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PGH wrote:
A 4 cyl Outback limited curb weight is 3564 and it's height is 65.7 with roof rails. Anybody have the TSX specs?


57.9" height

http://www.hondanews.com/channels/298/releases/11012188-80aa-4903-b353-c9a398ab345d
Sasker
Profile for Sasker
Re: Positive press reaction to TSX Sport Wagon    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-09-2010 00:04
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atomiclightbulb wrote:

I think the family/parent thing came from Honda's presentation of the vehicle at the end of last March. I seem to remember slides and photos emphasizing that this is targeted at younger families. I'm not sure I understand though how this would discourage other non-enthusiast buyers. The lack of a 6-spd manual transmission has stigmatized the vehicle with enthusiasts from the start.



Agreed. Lack of a manual transmission is very disappointing as far as enthusiasts are concerned.
ezshift5
Profile for ezshift5
Re: Positive press reaction to TSX Sport Wagon    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-09-2010 11:25
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Sasker wrote:
atomiclightbulb wrote:

The lack of a 6-spd manual transmission has stigmatized the vehicle with enthusiasts from the start.



Agreed. Lack of a manual transmission is very disappointing as far as enthusiasts are concerned.

A-firmative. That's a good transmission.


Last edited by RyanDL on 12-09-2010 12:08
80honda
Profile for 80honda
Re: Positive press reaction to TSX Sport Wagon    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-09-2010 13:01
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I find this TSX Sportswagen to be very compelling. I think it is just the vehicle that Acura needed.

I'm still not sure about the acceptance of Station Wagons in the USA, so let's see how this plays out.

Colin
Profile for Colin
Re: Positive press reaction to TSX Sport Wagon    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-09-2010 14:03
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In some respects, the most positive thing about this is how the managed to restrain themselves with trim/options. I think leaving out the MT makes a lot of sense even if it is not well received here. BUT hopefully it marks a return to a "keep it simple" philosophy where they acknowledge that they can't please everybody. Sometimes this will work against manual enthusiasts (like me) and sometime for. IMO, this type of thinking meant that they didn't 'dilute' the GS-R or S2000 with an automatic.
MasterOfDaDomain
Profile for MasterOfDaDomain
Re: Positive press reaction to TSX Sport Wagon    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-09-2010 17:53
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TSX69 wrote:
The Car Connection Review
So, with all that spin does that mean that Acura is abandoning crossovers? Donít be silly.

Acuraís MDX and RDX crossover sales are booming, both up nearly 50 percent so far this year. And Acura itself only predicts sales of the TSX Sport Wagon to be a modest 4,000 units in 2011, and estimates that the entire entry-luxury wagon slice of Americaís auto pie is a dinky, 10,000 or so units. (For reference, baked into said slice are cars like the $29,000 Volvo V50 T5, $35,940 Audi A4 Avant and $36,200 BMW 328i Sport Wagon.)



For TSX wagon to take 40% of the entry lux wagon market is a pretty good step! Still, such small sales volume, Honda/Acura might as well make this a made-to-order vehicle, and give people the 6sp option (or could even charge extra for it).
Sasker
Profile for Sasker
Re: Positive press reaction to TSX Sport Wagon    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-09-2010 18:13
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MasterOfDaDomain wrote:

For TSX wagon to take 40% of the entry lux wagon market is a pretty good step! Still, such small sales volume, Honda/Acura might as well make this a made-to-order vehicle, and give people the 6sp option (or could even charge extra for it).



I would expect the wagon to have a higher manual take rate than the sedan. Many people want a useful manual car, and don't want a sedan.

I read somewhere that VW wagons have a 25% manual take rate. If that is the case then the 6MT TSX wagon could go over the 10% rate.
danielgr
Profile for danielgr
Re: Positive press reaction to TSX Sport Wagon    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-09-2010 23:09
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Sasker wrote:
MasterOfDaDomain wrote:

For TSX wagon to take 40% of the entry lux wagon market is a pretty good step! Still, such small sales volume, Honda/Acura might as well make this a made-to-order vehicle, and give people the 6sp option (or could even charge extra for it).



I would expect the wagon to have a higher manual take rate than the sedan. Many people want a useful manual car, and don't want a sedan.

I read somewhere that VW wagons have a 25% manual take rate. If that is the case then the 6MT TSX wagon could go over the 10% rate.

Assuming your hopes were to happen, 10% of 4000 units are 400 cars/year; that's less than RL numbers for a 30k car...
If the 3% of MT uptake on the sedan is accurate (Jeff said so on a tweet), Honda is selling a merely 1000 MT sedans. I don't think they can really afford to get so many niche cars, specially if you keep in mind that the MT Wagon is not even being made for Japan.

Blue_Sky_surfer
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Re: Positive press reaction to TSX Sport Wagon    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-09-2010 23:54
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atomiclightbulb wrote:
I *think* the TSX Wagon fully equipped weighs 3618 lbs. The sedan w' 5-spd AT weighs 3486 max. The wagon adds 60kg, or 132 lbs heavier. No idea how tall the rails are.
3,599.
TSX69
Profile for TSX69
Re: Positive press reaction to TSX Sport Wagon    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-10-2010 09:46
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80honda
Profile for 80honda
Re: Positive press reaction to TSX Sport Wagon    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-10-2010 10:00
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Sasker wrote:
MasterOfDaDomain wrote:

For TSX wagon to take 40% of the entry lux wagon market is a pretty good step! Still, such small sales volume, Honda/Acura might as well make this a made-to-order vehicle, and give people the 6sp option (or could even charge extra for it).



I would expect the wagon to have a higher manual take rate than the sedan. Many people want a useful manual car, and don't want a sedan.

I read somewhere that VW wagons have a 25% manual take rate. If that is the case then the 6MT TSX wagon could go over the 10% rate.




Then why is the Audi Wagon only offered in automatic?
Sasker
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Re: Positive press reaction to TSX Sport Wagon    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-10-2010 11:53
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80honda wrote:
Sasker wrote:
MasterOfDaDomain wrote:

For TSX wagon to take 40% of the entry lux wagon market is a pretty good step! Still, such small sales volume, Honda/Acura might as well make this a made-to-order vehicle, and give people the 6sp option (or could even charge extra for it).



I would expect the wagon to have a higher manual take rate than the sedan. Many people want a useful manual car, and don't want a sedan.

I read somewhere that VW wagons have a 25% manual take rate. If that is the case then the 6MT TSX wagon could go over the 10% rate.




Then why is the Audi Wagon only offered in automatic?



Because Audi sells less cars than Acura, and also because Honda has deeper roots in NA when it comes to enthusiasts.
6SPDTL
Profile for 6SPDTL
Re: Positive press reaction to TSX Sport Wagon    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-10-2010 12:29
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All true, but, in in my not so humble opinion, it would have been exponentially more enticing for the sport oriented driver with a manual option. As we all know the six speed makes the 2.4 a whole lot faster and very engaging to drive. WIth the auto, 95% of drivers will be satisfied but not anyone that is looking for some real fun. The 2.4 is a fun engine to rev often and hard while rowing through the gears, the auto feels souless in comparison.
MasterOfDaDomain
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Re: Positive press reaction to TSX Sport Wagon    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-11-2010 04:21
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Dan Neil's review on WSJ: Over all quite positive, and hit the nail on the head about the Acura brand.

"... But in a way, it's all very liberating. After all, the TSX Wagon can't betray the brand if the brand doesn't mean anything."

"..But as most people walk away from a test drive, I'll wager they'll be thinking about two sensations. The first is a good one. As part of the TSX/Euro-Accord midcycle refresh, Honda's white-coats have further quelled road noise and vibration, with what they call "high capacity" suspension bushings, as well as lots of new sound insulation around the wheel wells, thicker window glass and acoustic windshield glass. These cars have always had a soft, rounded and hushed ambience for their price and class. Now tire and wind noise is practically an abstraction.

The other sensation is a hunger, a yearning, a craving for more horsepower..."






danielgr
Profile for danielgr
Re: Positive press reaction to TSX Sport Wagon    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-11-2010 06:25
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6SPDTL wrote:
All true, but, in in my not so humble opinion, it would have been exponentially more enticing for the sport oriented driver with a manual option. As we all know the six speed makes the 2.4 a whole lot faster and very engaging to drive. WIth the auto, 95% of drivers will be satisfied but not anyone that is looking for some real fun. The 2.4 is a fun engine to rev often and hard while rowing through the gears, the auto feels souless in comparison.
If the MDX or the Ody had been available with a 6MT would have you bought them over the AT's?
I thought the only MT car you had is an S2000 with high performance summer tires for a little "driving fun" once in a while...
TSX69
Profile for TSX69
Re: Positive press reaction to TSX Sport Wagon    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-12-2010 09:33
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Car & Driver
The final plus: this is arguably the best-looking member of the TSX lineup, and close to the Audi A4 for visual leadership in the class. Acura has toned down the TSXís lamentably beaky chrome grille for 2011, and the canted rear hatch adds a zoomy look to the package in addition to enhancing rear cargo access. A manual-transmission choice would make the station wagon more entertaining in our view, but the other TSX virtues are intactóand merely being a station wagon is a virtue unto itself.
MasterOfDaDomain
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Re: Positive press reaction to TSX Sport Wagon    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-13-2010 03:55
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It's time for TOVers to put the money down and show Acura we like that they do. Or, email Acura and ask for the manual, with a deposit ready to go.
TSX69
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Re: Positive press reaction to TSX Sport Wagon    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-15-2010 08:43
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CNET
The TSX Sport Wagon makes a nice addition to the Acura lineup, which is dominated by sedans that show too little differentiation. We can certainly understand not including a manual transmission option, or even the V-6, but Acura should have given this car all-wheel drive, which would have made it more attractive to its intended audience.

Cabin electronics are generally solid, with modern features such as traffic and weather integrated with the navigation system. The audio system is also a high point, and the car's voice command makes it very competitive. To improve its luxury image, Acura could clean up the buttons.
ezshift5
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Re: Positive press reaction to TSX Sport Wagon    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-15-2010 10:41
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MasterOfDaDomain wrote:
It's time for TOVers to put the money down and show Acura we like that they do. Or, email Acura and ask for the manual, with a deposit ready to go.



I'd sure consider a TSX wagon with a 6M. V-6 would make my year with a 6M

ez
TSX69
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Re: Positive press reaction to TSX Sport Wagon    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-15-2010 12:36
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Wagon w/ Genuine Swagger
That all said, why is the TSX Sport Wagon finally available in the U.S.? Because Acura says it wants to provide an SUV alternative for its entry-level customers. The wagon is aimed squarely at those successful members of Generation-Y for whom owning an SUV has become a stigma. Priced below the competition and boasting better fuel economy, the 2011 Acura TSX Sport Wagon is not yet the near-luxury estate of our dreams, but it's a welcome step in the continued resurrection of the premium wagon.
TSX69
Profile for TSX69
Re: Positive press reaction to TSX Sport Wagon    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-20-2010 09:05
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MotorTrend Review
Unlike its more plebian Honda mother ship, Acura has never sold a wagon in the U.S. Until now, that is. The all-new 2011 TSX Sport Wagon represents a first for the marque, which is introducing a low-slung family-hauler at a time when year-to-year sales of its RDX and MDX crossovers are up 52 and 47 percent, respectively. Odd timing? Perhaps, since the crossover segment continues to grow and the wagon segment remains niche. But, according to Acura's assistant VP of product planning Vicki Poponi, there are two very plausible reasons why the TSX wagon may surpass its modest 4000-units-per-year forecast.

First, 15 percent of TSX sedan "leavers" -- those customers who replace their TSX with something other than another TSX -- shift to SUVs. As Acura sees it, there's an opportunity to keep them in the TSX fold with a vehicle offering SUV-like versatility. Second, Acura believes the TSX wagon's target customers -- 30-plus-years-old couples with college degrees, $120,000 household income, and a child on the way -- prefer greener and sportier alternatives to more fuel-thirsty and higher-riding crossovers. With EPA city/highway fuel economy numbers of 22/30 mpg and a low center of gravity that helps deliver an estimated 0.82 g of lateral grip, the TSX wagon is indeed green and sporty.
98EX4cyl
Profile for 98EX4cyl
Re: Positive press reaction to TSX Sport Wagon    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-20-2010 09:18
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Keep it coming TSX69!

Nice to see back-to-back postive new product reviews (Ody & TSXwagon) after the previous lousy year (ZDX, CrossTour, Insight). We're on a roll and gaining momentum, bring on the car shows. Give us a great sub-TSX concept, Civic concept, or Element replacement.
Power Of Dreams
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Re: Positive press reaction to TSX Sport Wagon    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-20-2010 19:27
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No 6MT = fail, and not at that pricetag.

This would make a great CPO or used car in two years though.
 
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