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Carmissimo
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The rake of the windshield seems more Civic than ILX and I have to believe that the ILX coupe would not go there. One of the ways in which the ILX will be set apart from the Civic is a more conventional dash, as opposed to the two-tier dash that is distinctly Civic.
Let's face it, being as the Civic Si is using the power train from the TSX, there really is nowhere for Honda to go on that front to set the ILX apart from the Civic Si. That means styling cues interior and exterior are needed to give the Civic and ILX distinct identities.
Appealing design, though.
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A77
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Carmissimo wrote:
........ there really is nowhere for Honda to go on that front to set the ILX apart from the Civic Si. That means styling cues interior and exterior are needed to give the Civic and ILX distinct identities.
Appealing design, though.
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Making it a hatch would help distinguish it. Another awesome job Neal.
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NealX
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Like the ILX, I imagine this could be Civic-based. The wheelbase is the same length, similar front overhang, reduced rear overhang and windscreen angle nearly the same.
Some eye candy in Imola Orange...
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Carmissimo
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Making it a two-door hatch would exactly make it the return of the RSX which always should have been known as the Integra.
Since there is no two-door hatch in the Civic line and since the coupe is the least practical form factor imaginable, Honda could do worse than going that route. The question is, does the company really want to be seen as having reversed itself in regards to killing off the RSX in the first place.
I'd still like to see what Honda could do with a Fit-based car that takes that practical shape and takes it significantly upmarket. Could be rather appealing slotted just below the ILX.
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s2kx2
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Carmissimo wrote:
Making it a two-door hatch would exactly make it the return of the RSX which always should have been known as the Integra.
Since there is no two-door hatch in the Civic line and since the coupe is the least practical form factor imaginable, Honda could do worse than going that route. The question is, does the company really want to be seen as having reversed itself in regards to killing off the RSX in the first place.
I'd still like to see what Honda could do with a Fit-based car that takes that practical shape and takes it significantly upmarket. Could be rather appealing slotted just below the ILX.
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Get over the hatchback thing. Marketing studies have proven time and time again that the American market unlike the European favors a proper coupe over hatchbacks somewhere in the realm of 12 to 1. the perception stateside is that hatchbacks are econo boxes and are not upscale enough for American tastes. Remember the last Civic Si hatch made in Britain and brought stateside. Our honda rep said they could not give them away.
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integrator
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I disagree with the hatchback comment. If you make a terribly tiny hatchback, then yes, Americans wont buy it. But the Integra, given its proportions and size, sold more hatches than sedans. Its about offering THE RIGHT hatchback.
Having said that, I do think that this is pretty amazing as a coupe also. If the Civic Coupe and subsequent Si Coupe had looked like this (instead of the mess they came up with), I might have inadvertently hurt some people on my manic trip to the dealership. Nice work Neal. It even looks like a successor to the Gen8 Coupe.
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TonyEX
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Carmissimo wrote:
Making it a two-door hatch would exactly make it the return of the RSX which always should have been known as the Integra.
Since there is no two-door hatch in the Civic line and since the coupe is the least practical form factor imaginable, Honda could do worse than going that route. The question is, does the company really want to be seen as having reversed itself in regards to killing off the RSX in the first place.
I'd still like to see what Honda could do with a Fit-based car that takes that practical shape and takes it significantly upmarket. Could be rather appealing slotted just below the ILX.
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Did you see Neal's take on the ILX wagon? IMHO, that's the route, instead of the hatch.
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integrator
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Honda and Acura both are in real need of some body style diversification. I would even be happy if they brought the EuroCivic over and called it the CRX.
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Carmissimo
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There's no question that Honda will bring out a sports wagon instead of a five-door hatch and I think that is the right choice.
The question is, do you go with a two-door hatch or a two-door coupe. I don't buy the notion that a two-door hatch would be perceived as an econo box.
Honda got out of the business of selling cars in the RSX price range because the company wanted to up its image and thought it could sell enough SUVs to get the volume needed to sustain its Acura dealer network. The problem is that the RDX got terrible fuel economy numbers and was a sales disappointment.
I find it highly unlikely that if Honda brings out a terrific two-door hatch that has appealing styling, good performance, and a high-grade interior there will be a perception that this is a cheap, unworthy product on account of it's a hatch.
If the idea is to appeal to a narrow-minded cliche American customer offended by the notion of owning a hatch, there is already a super-sized American product in the mix to satisfy that buyer in the form of the Accord Coupe.
A hatch design makes sense in a smaller vehicle. It makes for a more useful two-door. What would make no sense at all would be to produce a two-door coupe that would more or less amount to the offspring of the Civic Si and the Accord coupe. Honda has the coupe market covered with those two other products which makes an ILX coupe a pointless exercise.
I think we're more likely to see a sports wagon long before we would see an ILX coupe. The reason is, why would you bother. The Accord coupe, despite its size, is visually appealing and it's not as if the Civic Si coupe is a horrible vehicle. Seems to me that market segment is already well served. Maybe a few people would like the ILX coupe but sales would be abysmal. There are just too many alternatives, even within Honda's own product line. While hatches are not to everyone's liking, there are some potential buyers who would like one (they did sell their share of Integras and RSXs in their day) and it would make sense to offer one such model among the coupes already in the mix.
I don't doubt that the logic in all of this is that smallish SUVs like the RDX have taken the place of hatches but the RDX comes in at significantly more money than the ILX hatch would. And speaking of image, selling a small truck/wagon in my books lowers the image of a carmaker, not enhances it. Yet there the RDX is. Decidedly not a luxury product. Really just a wagon that sits high off the ground. It doesn't get any less classy than that.
Bottom line is, I doubt Acura's image would take a hit if the company dared to offer a two-door hatch. Acura's image wasn't hurt by the RSX/Integera, it was hurt because there were no truly compelling top-end products. A brand's image is defined by the products at the top of the food chain, not the bottom. If Mercedes or BMW make lower-cost products that are not truly top-class, no one sees those brands in a poorer light. It's understood that even the premium brands make compromises to achieve a given price target.
The problem for Acura was that the product that was most identified with the brand was the Integra-RSX. As popular as these cars were (I owned two), it was clear that this was essentially an upscale Civic.
By shutting down the Integra for a while, I think the reasoning was that it would end that clear association with the Acura brand. The problem is that Honda failed to effectively fill the void in the Integra's absence and now the focus is on getting back to getting the volume needed to sustain the dealer network. Hence we're now going to get the ILX sedan and before long an ILX sports wagon. A coupe would be pointless and a poor seller. An upscale two-door hatch would fill a void and likely be no worse a seller than a coupe. If such a car were perceived as the return of the Integra, Acura's image would in no way be damaged.
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TonyEX
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I assume that by two door hatchback you mean a three door fastback design (Integra, Vega) not a tall shooting brake design....(ie: Golf).
Personally I love the five door fastback design, my first Integra was a five door and the car was very useful, however, the kammback tail (ie: Fit) is far more useful more cargo.
IMHO, a two door ILX coupe makes little sense for Acura.. so does a mid size coupe, for the reasons you brought up: Civic and Accord.
The five door wagon ILX makes sense (a) as an alternative to the RDX and (b) there is nothing in the Honda line up against it (the CRV is a CUV and there are no Accord/Civic wagons).
The ILX should be a sedan and wagon. There should be Type S versions of both.
Acura Coupe? It should be based on the TL and RL... as way up market and premium products.
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Carmissimo
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TonyE wrote:
I assume that by two door hatchback you mean a three door fastback design (Integra, Vega) not a tall shooting brake design....(ie: Golf).
Personally I love the five door fastback design, my first Integra was a five door and the car was very useful, however, the kammback tail (ie: Fit) is far more useful more cargo.
IMHO, a two door ILX coupe makes little sense for Acura.. so does a mid size coupe, for the reasons you brought up: Civic and Accord.
The five door wagon ILX makes sense (a) as an alternative to the RDX and (b) there is nothing in the Honda line up against it (the CRV is a CUV and there are no Accord/Civic wagons).
The ILX should be a sedan and wagon. There should be Type S versions of both.
Acura Coupe? It should be based on the TL and RL... as way up market and premium products.
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A five-door fastback would appeal to me as well but I don't think Honda will go there. Something along the lines of Neal's design exercise, i.e. a four-door sports wagon, is much more likely.
I don't think we'll see a TL-based coupe. It's been tried before and evidently wasn't a hit because the CL is long gone. On the other hand, the Integra was axed not because the numbers were much too low but rather because Honda was trying to break the link between the Intergra and the Acura brand. Now that such a link has been severed, there is, I think, a market for what amounts to an Integra update. The car was an appealing product that made a lot of sense.
My guess is we'll see a sports wagon for the 2014 model year if the ILX is well received and if an Integra-style vehicle is coming, that will follow for the the 2015 model year. On the other hand if the ILX sedan does poorly, all bets are off.
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